robrob74
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Posts posted by robrob74
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So, Dube looked like one of the players with the motors in last nights win, does that mean he’s dragging them down?
numbers will say that they’ve been worse with him, but what about the other players? To me it looks like the other players not pulling their weight in comparison. Maybe we can say Tkachuk and Lindholm are dragging Dube’s numbers?
both Lindholm and Tkachuk looked good on the pp though.
to me Dube has been skating. Does that mean he’s bad for the line if he’s the only one going or moving?
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4 hours ago, pikey7883 said:
I have to agree with you and hate to, lol. Backlund has looked as you advertised, and I may have jumped the gun on him.
Our depth down the middle as a group is fantastic though, Lindholm is an upgrade on any other Center we have now or in the pipeline, so our 1-2-3 down the middle is very good in no particular order.
But your right that we are missing that #1 Center. IF we found that, then Lindy can move back to RW to dominate a top line.
Until then we can continue to roll our 2a,2b,2c centers effectively.
I think he’s been ok for the first handful of games which made it easy to conclude that. He just wasn’t himself to start the season. Since, around 2-3 or maybe 4 games ago he has really looked engaged more and more each game. He called himself out and has responded since. -
13 minutes ago, Heartbreaker said:
So, I wasn't sure where to best put this as it's not exactly Flames related, so starting a new thread seemed like the wrong call.
I am a peewee (now called U13) coach in Vancouver, and I pick up a lot of drills from Jeremy Weiss. Sadly, he's a die-hard lifelong Leafs fan - but he has a break down from the play-in round last year, and I thought that it was pretty good. It really illustrates what is, in my opinion, the sad reality of the Flames power play. The bump-back pass is so predictable, and I do not understand how the best way to break into the zone includes having four players standing still on the blue line. Totally worth the watch.
Love.
is there not a way to be weaving / moving a bit more during the drop pass so that they’d have more movement going in?
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13 minutes ago, travel_dude said:
I am in no means suggesting that they shouldn't give it some time.
Getting a bit of a garbage goal from that line is fine, but it's not their strength.
I say garbage only because most goalies stop that one, with the upper part of the net open.
Having a C/LW playing RW sets off alarm bells for me.
We've done it so long....
Simon played with a play driver at times and hasn't been much of a fit so far here.
I don't think too much should be expected with a depth guy that can play up and down the lines.
Maybe a trade isn't in the cards and this is about all we can expect; a decent line with Backlund and an okay line with Gaudreau.
The latter could improve.
Or we end up making a trade for a top 6 RW.
For what Bennett is delivering so far, we probably get that from Ruzicka.
well, I get you think it’s a garbage goal. But it’s a goal and sometimes it takes one. He had 18 in his rookie year, I just think it is feel for the puck too. He’s not felt it in years. Will it come back? -
2 hours ago, Heartbreaker said:
This is good info, but the sample size is far too small. Personally, I don't actually think that this is the best spot for Bennett, but I'd bet that this data would look a lot better given a few games.
Love.51 minutes ago, cross16 said:The data is interesting but the conclusion is too quick IMO. While yes statistically they were the worst it's also the smallest sample size and the difference between that line's performance with Bennett vs Simon for example is not drastic when you consider the sample size. Also consider that Mangiapane is the only player who actually boosted their performance and without Mangiapane the lines with Gaudreau-Monahan all come out as pretty avg, just to varying degrees.
I don't actually like Bennett up there either, just don't agree with the conclusion given sample size.
42 minutes ago, travel_dude said:It's way too small a sample size to make any conclusion.
Just the only thing I could find about it.
The only thing it says to me was that it wasn't all roses when he played there.
I don't think he's a fit there, but then again he's not a RW.
And I think this is part of the problem with finding the fit and with Bennett on the line. Simon didn't look that great with them for the first few games. The only difference is that they gave it a few games to grow some flow to the their game as a group. I see what everyone sees, the fact Bennett disrupts a flow. How many of us play hockey? Do we play perfectly with brand new line mates with every new player we play with? My bet is it varies. Some players you mesh with right away. Some it takes a game to get a feel, and some it takes a handful of games.
I get that these guys have played organized hockey for years, but to me, I think it's good to give it time with some players.
And to me, when Bennett is on their line it looks like the all have two left feet. They seem to be in each other's way a lot. But then, they also only give them a game or less to get in sync, while others they seem to give more time.
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It looks like a .500 record might be good enough for the 4th playoff spot. We look fairly evenly matched with all of the teams we’ve played before so .500 might be where we are heading. Although, hope we don’t take Ottawa too lightly as they’re the team that’s going to gain us the extra points if we take them seriously.
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6 hours ago, cross16 said:
If it were me
tkachuk -Backlund - Lindholm
Gaudreau- Mony - Mang
Dube - Bennett Leivo
Lucic - Froese - Nordstrom
wont happen but I’d shake it up.
this seems so common sense but I digress!
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Who is Mac now, did they change their handle/username?
if I recall it had been JJ, People, Mac and I as the ones that were the most critical. Everyone else seemed to have a healthy dose of optimism on here. But the team, as we all see it differently, has had whatever reasons for coming out flat or unmotivated and at times very structured and more often than not, unstructured. We all have our opinions as to why this happens. There’s probably variations of truths to all of them. We are all seeing the same product on the ice, but we all see it our own way.
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15 hours ago, CheersMan said:
Only 2 teams make it to the SC finals, they create an identity along the way. The other 28 teams have no identity according to your logic. Why does your identity only show up after a Flames loss? Never see you post anything except to drop a profanity based hammer on the team after every single loss. Maybe you should work on your identity?
Am I remembering this wrong, but wasn’t Tmac one of the most positive posters on here until last year? Tmac used to be on here more frequently than now and usually defended the Flames. At least that’s how I remember, maybe I am wrong? -
7 hours ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:
Not sure what games you're referring to but other than some early season jitters he's been one on the brightest spots as of late.
Quite the harsh criticism for a coach who has barely been at the helm for a full season yet. Sure theres some coaching decisions and practices I dont agree with but let's not start trying to run him out of town yet.
since his winning streak to start his head coaching career with Calgary, Ward has been a near .500 coach. Since that streak he is as 12-10-1 to finish the season (counting the play-in round where we had a major advantage of playing against a severely injured Jets team). I get it, those games count.
before the play in round, after that 7 game win streak he went 9-9-3.this year’s record he is 4-5-1
16-15-4 is his record since the seven game win streak the flames went on last year. That’s including the play-in round. If you count playoffs it’s us 18-19-4.
I think this is closer to what he is rather than what he was to start the year last year.
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7 hours ago, Radster said:
Gotta say half the team is still on holiday. Tkachuk. Backlund. Gio. Nesterov. Mony. New addition leivo n simon are crap. Lucic slower than ever not sure about Ritich this year nesterov and nordstom are Meh Valamaki isn't what he was looking like he could be. we have a lot of dead weight to carry this year. Hopefully these guys wake up its a 56 game season n were are poopin da bed.
oh did i mention the biggest dead wardo. What a useless coach. Im getting really tired of his crap.
yup! Tkachuk is elite, Monahan is elite.
we aren’t getting anywhere with their elite play. They’re not leaders. They’re all talk and no action. A team of, “we gotta’s.”
they look good at times. I’ve actually not minded Monahan this year. He looks more engaged and seems to be a bit better allround.
Gaudreau has been the best player. Team needs to follow his lead...
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1 hour ago, JTech780 said:
Nordstrom was one of the better players on the PK with Boston. He has been on for two goals against on the PK.
The weak link in the PK this year appears to be Backlund who has been on for 6 goals against on the PK.
I also wonder if the PK system that the Flames play is different than Boston? I dont know, but the Flames tend to clog the blueline and then after that they're really passive. Could it be that Boston plays a different PK system and if you're already moving your feet it is easier to clog lanes?
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2 hours ago, travel_dude said:
They have been good 5v5.
I'm not so sure about Nordstrom's PK ability.
I don't know what to think of Leivo.
He's been able to score ata a decent clip, but that might have been playing with more offensive players.
If he could dial in his shot, he would be better.
May be a work in progress, since he missed a lot of time.
Bennett certainly had a rough game Tuesday.
It wouldn't be out of the question to sit him, but that really just leaves us Simon right now.
I would be more inclined to give an opportunity to a player like Ruzicka, but that won't happen.
Sure, he's a rookie, but I think you may need to give Backlund some more weapons.
That line looks frustrated at times.
No finish.
The Backlund's line really looks like they get in their own way. They're kind of bumping each other or passing at each other's feet or for whatever reason can't play as a unit. Backlund has always hit the net about 25% of the time, even when the net is wide open, so that part doesn't surprise me.
But right now, I think I trade Bennett for a bag of pucks. It looks like he's just dragging the team down a lot. Or like you said, maybe it's time to sit him. Personally, I think he needs to be told what his role is, play him in it and turn him into a robot. He's too sporadic right now, so I think he needs some structure. It just looks like he doesn't know what he's doing.
It's kind of like that with the whole team. They look like they could be the best team in the league one period and then look like they have no sense of structure the next, or play a half decent to a good effort but not do enough to win.
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6 minutes ago, The_People1 said:
I'm not liking Nordstrom so far. What do u guys think?
Aside from maybe a handful of shifts, he's been disappointing. Although I can see some signs that his legs are getting going. I do wonder whether Simon is the better choice. He seems to be a bit more of a mover than Nords. I suppose they like Nord's size over Simon's?
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31 minutes ago, travel_dude said:
Bennett obviously didn't impress Ward, because he got 3 shifts in the 3rd.
We have three top 6 C's now, but we've lost a top 6 RW.
Dube isn't there yet.
I've got no problem letting them develop the chemistry they need, but I will point out that already has that with Tkachuk.
It may sound like I am harping, but I like to build on previous success.
Mangiapane-Lindholm-Tkachuk
Gaudreau-Monahan-Dube
Mangiapane bring exactly what he did last yea to Tkachuk's line.
Dube builds on good start to the season by being paired with another speedy winger.
Maybe it's me, but I could see 2 on 1's and breakaways resulting.
Monahan as the trailer to pound in the rebound.
I Know, I am projecting...
Leave the 3rd and 4th alone.
Maybe sub in Simon for Nordstrom.
I could agree with your lineup too, as I did with JTech...
I am also with Cross, they need to keep things together for a bit and run with it.
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25 minutes ago, JTech780 said:
When I dig into the stats I think there needs to be a couple of small changes on the lines.
Dube with Lindholm and Tkachuk isn't working. That line has a CF% of 51.72, but when Tkachuk and Lindholm are away from Dube they are operating at 68.42 CF%. If you swap Dube for Mangiapane, that line is running at 67.44 CF%.
We are talking about small sample sizes.
Here are the lines I would go with:
Mangiapane-Lindholm-Tkachuk
I think this a potent two way line that can dominate at both ends.
Gaudreau-Monahan-Leivo
Leivo's game is turning a corner, which isn't too surprising now that he has knocked off the rust.
Bennett-Backlund-Dube
Bennett and Dube worked well together in the playoffs, I also think this takes some pressure off of Dube and will let him just play his game.
Lucic-Ryan-Nordstrom
I would like to put Simon in for Nordstrom, but when I dug into the stats, this line has been very good over the last 5 games.
I actually think that creates the deepest, most logical team yet.
I dont think it's demoting Dube as much as making the bottom 6 work. I've always thought Mangiapane should be with Tkachuk. It could probably work with Backlund, but I think they need a real RW. But we've also seen Bennett work well with Dube in the past. I've always thought that Bennett and Dube should be glued to the hip because they play a similar game, speed up the ice and constantly in motion. Without that player, Bennett looks slow and takes bad penalties (that's on him of course).
Nordstrom has looked a bit better at times.
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1 hour ago, cross16 said:
I actually think it's time for Ward to stop the line tinkering for a while. I know they lost but I liked a lot of the things the flames did last night, especially going back and watching some of the game, and while there are things to improve upon I think they are finding their game. Time to keep a lineup together for a few games and let them build on some chemistry and get on a roll here because I think it's coming.
Johnny - Mony Mang
Tkachuk - Lindholm - Dube
Bennett - Backs - Leivo
Lucic - Ryan - Nordstrom.
Leave it alone and stop the blender. The team hasn't always made it easy on the coach with some so/so efforts but I also think Ward is tinkering too much (ie, no reason Mang should have sat like he did last night). Individually most of these guys have found their game, or have at some point this season, so let them go for a little while.
I agree,
They say NHLers should be fine with whoever they're playing with as they're all good players, but I think for consistency and figuring out each other's habits, they need to stay together. Even though they're all using the same playbook, they still have fundamental habits that each other have. Sometimes it looks like players are getting in each other's ways too often. They're not getting to open ice to receive or create lanes for passes. That's not every line, but a few of them. I think if they kept the lines together they'd start to clean some of that up. I don't want them to become too robotic, but I think they need a bit of robotic for awhile, like Montreal. They know what they're doing strategy wise, and they go out and do it as a unit. They're playing to the plan. It's like you've said before, you're still not 100% sure what the coaches plan has been.
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2 hours ago, travel_dude said:
Lindy is struggling to score at C.
I'm not suggesting he need to move to RW, just that something isn't quite right in the lines.
Monahan also struggling to score.
It's early, but I think the RW's for the top 6 needs to be re-thought.
Dube is struggling after coming back.
Mangiapane is better at LW.
Simon has looked good but is not a finisher.
Bennett has not looked good for an entire game in the top 6.
3rd line continues to struggle.
Not sure what the answer is, but we are struggling to score >3 in a game.
The chances are there but a lot of missed opportunity
I feel like both Tkachuk/Lindholm and Gaudreau/Monahan lines are going (most of the time), but there's something missing on both lines. It's like you said, something just isn't right... To me, we are borrowing from lower depth to finish the top lines, leaving the lower lines weaker. Lucic had a good couple of games, but a bad one last night. I think that Ward believes if he keeps playing Lucic his legs will keep moving. Somehow he believes Lucic as a key to the Flames success.
Honestly, I didn't watch the third period. My partner and I were sitting down for dinner and she doesn't like hockey, so we watched something else. From what I read Ward threw caution to the wind and kept the blender going, while still awarding some players even though they had bad play and demoting others in their play? I get that you gotta give some of these vets some leeway and time to work out kinks. But I wonder what message it sends to some players that when they make mistakes, they get sat and others dont?
I kind of see what JTech sees. I see Lindholm doing good things out there. Although, the last few games have been harder to notice him away from the PP. But I do see him doing good things. But I think that a lot of the Flames play has been perimiter and shots from far, and we see how they can score when they get the puck in front of the net. Maybe we gotta give the other team credit for keeping them outside and clogging the slot? That Valamaki pass was great, and Gaudreau was Johnny on the spot. But he got into the area for a nice backdoor tap in. We don't see a lot of pucks getting to that area, or at least not enough of them are.
Players are supposed to be pros, I get it, but you can't tell me that some of that thought process doesn't creep in. I don't think it helps to sit guys after mistakes. It just makes them more cautious and prone to make more mistakes. Then you can't trust them after awhile. That's what I've seen from some of the young players. Kylington, Bennett, Jankowski, and others... They play(ed) tentative hockey. I see that as a big difference in Mangiapane's/Dube's games. They just go out there and do, they play their game, whereas the other group I've mentioned don't seem to know what their game is?
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5 hours ago, MP5029 said:
The real issue is if Dube is the key player to another players success I think you need to consider the position is weak...RW needs 2 top 6 guys
Dube is a converted LW and to be honest he’s a 3rd liner.
Lindholm is a RW now being converted back to Ctr so make no wonder he’s gonna take time to get back to playing a Ctr roll, in a short season this was a bad idea
Backlund is probably the biggest problem, Cgy needs to move him for another top 6 RW And go with this:
Gaudreau/Monahan/Lindholm
Tachuck/Bennet/??????
manji/Ryan/Simon or Levno
Luch/????/Simon or Levno
and the D needs to be reshuffled:
Valimaki/Anderson
Hanifin/Tanev
Gio/Nesterov
if Geo is truly still a good D it will help moving him to the 3rd pair, if not, it will show and maybe address the 3rd pair at the TDL?
and Ritich needs to play more often he’s not able to find a rhythm playing the latter 1/2 of back to back games. Either that or trade him if your gonna rely on Markstrom.
For the bolded, that's how I feel too. He could be a 2nd liner, but those spots are held for Tkachuk and Gaudreau on this team. I am not trying to take away from Dube and his play and success at all. Depth on the FLames puts him at 1RW...
The thing withBacklund, I wonder if he's pouting having put on a line with Bennett and away from Tkachuk. Maybe Tkachuk has been such a constant with him the last 3 years that he's gotten so used to playing with him.
I don't know if it makes them a deeper team or easier team to play against if they went back to what used to be. Johnny looks like a man possessed, like him of old. When he is going, that Monahan line is going...
Gaudreau, Monahan, Lindholm/Mangiapane
Mangiapane/Tkachuk, Backlund, Tkachuk/Lindholm
Dube, Bennett, Leivo/Simon
Lucic, Ryan, Nordstrom/Leivo
TO me, Bennett sucks because I think he's a Center and he is too jailed in on the wing; I mean, he's too close to the wall. He plays like a C as a winger and it ruins his game. Not to give him any excuses, I just feel like he's not had a good year at all! But something like this is what I expected after last season. But they might be deeper up the middle with Lindholm as a C...
The Problem with the roster as is today is that they aren't getting depth scoring unless someone is elevated to a top line. Even then, are the depth players scoring enough? And we are borrowing depth from other places to fill holes in others... Sometimes it clicks and sometimes it doesn't. Last night was a night where it didn't, and the night before was a night where it did... Let's face it, that game against the Jets that we did win, we were lucky to get a victory there, if it weren't for Tanev's blue-line goal. They did play great in that third though, so we could say the deserved a few more goals, but that doesn't account for their playing from behind early... WHich isn't a recipe for success.
I believe the Flames are going to keep Lindholm at C. They see him as a Bergeron.
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1 hour ago, cross16 said:
There has been a lot of talk about Gio and Anderson and their impact on the team but someone who has been escaping any criticism is Elias Lindholm.
if that’s to be their number one line they need a lot more out of Lindholm. He’s been pretty invisible at 5 on 5 for most of the season but especially the last 3-4 games.
I know they are pretty committed to him at center but I don’t think the early returns have been very good.
I think that Lindholm has been fairly silent, like you said, especially since Dube's injury. Dube is back, but the play after his injury seems to have continued. I don't know if he has been terrible, just that on the scoresheet he has been very quiet, and that would go for Tkachuk too, just since they're on the same line... Of course Tkachuk has been pretty good, just that Lindholm could be a reason they've not been better. I think it might have to do with overplaying him. He is the best at PK, one of the best at PP, and I just think it could be affecting the 5v5 play.
Since Dube's been back, it seems like he's trying to do too much all at once...
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41 minutes ago, travel_dude said:
What I have liked about Gio is his stepping up to keep the pla alive.
He's not quite as good as Ras at holding the line, but he picks his battles well.
What I don't like is he doesn't use the forwards effectively at times.
Too many stretch passes.
Too much dumping in.
It's two tools, not the best ones.
And I also find him too limited in mobility on the PK.
He's smart, so I don't get his choices sometimes.
I don't know if he is actually slowing down physically? Could it be more mentally? I still see him moving (from what I can remember) the same as years past. He wasn't always fleet of foot anyway, but defended really well.
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4 hours ago, Radster said:
Gio looking really bad again to start the year. Not sure what happened after he won the norris but hes been pretty much crap since. He is still our captain but don't thibk he belongs on the top pairing.
I actually think he over-tries now. Since then and in the playoffs, he's been garbage. I could be wrong. But you know, sometimes a player is too pumped, or trying to do more than one thing at a time, it makes them ineffective. I see that with Gio. I don't see him exactly slowing down, I just wonder if he's stepped in and puts himself behind on plays, much like how Hanifin tended to do the past few years. Hanifin has been a pleasant surprise this year. But I think Gio is trying to be that player instead of just being that player.
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2 hours ago, MP5029 said:
Exactly why they really should try and move Gio and get a little something for him but he should have been traded right after he won the Noris...boy I took heat for that but as it turns out it was the right call and now we will get next to nothing for him, fitting he’s molded himself after Iggy cause he and the flames are definitely on the same track.
Hopefully Tackuck gets the C next year or even better, right after this years TDL...he’s definitely gotta be the next C and just the right guy for that job and should help build a tough identity for the team moving forward
mac? -
8 hours ago, The_People1 said:
I was disappointed by our reaction on the Muzzin incident as well. Since halfway into last season, Tkachuk has become our best player and that clearly hasn't sank in with the rest of the team. It hasn't sank in with Monahan and Giordano. If your best player gets pissed off like that, then you have to step up for him. That's pretty much the end of story.
Maybe no one saw what happened so they didn't get why Tkachuk was so upset.
Maybe they thought Tkachuk was just doing a performance, again.
But whatever. As a teammate, you should defend your teammates and have their back.
I get we had like Gaudreau and maybe Mangiapane/Backlund as the extra attacker on the ice and if those smaller players don't fight, then okay fine... Giordano and Andersson aren't bruising heavy weights either. but maybe Monahan should've lost his cool just for the sake of it. Just for the message. Just to prove a point. But no. Nothing.
Tkachuk left the ice fuming and slamming the door shut. went back to check the door to make sure the door closed... on the rest of his teammates who were still on the ice.
I actually forgot that they were playing the Canadiens the second game. They should’ve came harder at them knowing they were playing that next game to send a message that they’ll be up for it. The two goals they scored were gifts that made that game look more respectable, which was really flattering the score.
I could see why they started Allen the next game and wasn’t a terrible idea. He played well and gave them a chance, but they couldn’t beat Marky.
Calgary Flames 20/21 Roster and Lines
in Flames Talk
Posted
I think Bennett is still playing the Monahan and Gaudreau line like he’s the Center on the line. I think it gets himself in their way. That’s why I think it’s not working.