cross16

Hate this argument. If Treliving doesn't sign Hiller or Engllland they don't make the playoffs that year. Heck they don't pick up Schlemko of waivers that year they may not make the playoffs. Never makes sense to give only 1 person credit or say well "if" this or "take out" this. And if you want to use that argument then you should also point out that Feaster's finger prints are on this season too, in a negative way. Feaster completely blew the Iggy/Jbow trades and the 2013 draft and now the Flames basically have no assets outside of Monahan to show for that. Those should have been prime assets in a rebuild and instead the Flames got next to zero. It is VERY difficult to replace those assets in a cap system. Neither issue is black and white. I think there is only so much a GM can do and I think the fact remains is that he didn't exactly take over a franchise that was in the greatest of shapes so to expect it to suddenly be this marquee franchise is IMO unrealistic.

Playoffs 2 out of 4 years is not being ineffective in your job in the NHL.

Of course he didn't. but that doesn't make it his fault and if you answer is to fire everyone as soon as an objective is missed Your going to wind up with a terrible franchise.

Which would have made it pretty easy for the Blues to agree to. Much harder for Snow when it was far from a given the Flames would be in the playoffs. Every negotiation is different. This is a GM who put a playoff condition on the Smith trade, refuses to give out NMC, has been very schrewed in contract signings, has the reputations of being one of the more thorough GMs in the league and we are now going to believe he forgot to, or neglected to, protect a 1st round pick he was giving up? Hard for me to believe that.

This is not talked about enough IMO. I think it's pretty well known that this ownership groups mandates playoffs every year and views any season that is not playoffs, for any reason, a failure. Puts a ton of pressure on your hockey ops because you need to get them help every year, especially when this core really isn't all that great in the grand scheme of things. So even for me, who was preaching patience, i'm not sure I can lay all the blame on Treliving for being aggressive because I think he has to be.

I thought they overpaid for him anyway. But here is my problem with saying this is an automatic fire, your are penalizing him for a situation so far beyond his control. I think we all agree this team should he in the playoffs no? I also think we would agree that the Hamonic trade made the flames better no? If the islanders wind up with a top 3 pick out of this it will be due to some of the worst luck we will have seen in sometime. In the last month and chance the flames have lost their 3 best offensive players, top 4 Dman, and their starting goalie. They follow that up with seeing a massive and unprecedented run of poor goaltending and poor shooting and then on top of that the islanders are going to have to turn a less than 25% chance or getting they pick into that pick. And we expect Treliving to have known this when he made the trade? yea the response is going to be he "simply" should have protected the pick. Well we don't know he didn't try. Let's remember two things, 1 the smith trade was made with a condition of whether or not the flames would make the playoffs. 2 Treliving got a pick back in the deal also with condions around the playoffs. So I don't think this idea they had so much cconfidence in their team isn't quite accurate because it appears there were steps made with the provision of not making the playoffs in mind. Also remember there were a good 4 or 5 teams in on Hamonic so I think it's very possible that snow wasn't taking the deal is the pick was lottery protected. I know then pick is a later round pick but funny enough your odds of getting an NHL In the 4th rounder are not drastically different than the mid teens of the first round. So again certainly appears to me that some provision were built into this trade. i have heard Treliving say that yes when he made the deal he was thinking he had a playoff team but who didn't? And even if they did miss you wouldn't not expect them to miss like this. If this pick was in the 10-15 range so we still care? At the the end of the day I do think Treliving made a mistake and mis read his team, but that's a mistake you can learn from. If this turns into a lottery pick that sucks but it's due to factors way outside Treliving control. I disagree with the idea of firing people for that. I've never been a fan of the Hamonic trade but I just don't agree with firing him over it. All GMs make mistakes.

I don't understand why this matters. Optically sure but the pick is gone. Whether it winds up 1-2-3 is now up to luck. Makes no sense to me that luck is the final straw in your decision.

I haven't seen a difference personally. Other than playing hard and sticking up for his teammates, i'm still waiting to see what Hamonic does really well. But to be fair I thought Brodie-Hamonic had a solid 2nd half of the season and were playing better prior to Brodie getting hurt. So not seeing a difference post Brodie is not really a shot at Hamonic as I thought he was playing better already, I just don't think you've seen a change post Brodie for me anyway.

I think you need to start seeing what you have in Gillies. Personally I think you've seen what Rittich can do but you need to see Gillies. Both in terms of what he can do for you but also from an asset management point of view. ideally you'd have all 3 goalies up here but you need to try and get the Heat in the playoffs.

I wish I could share your optimism but I see this stretching back 2 seasons now of poor play, it's not like it was new. Hamilton was good in Boston, struggled for the first quarter or so of his season and then was good so I see the story as quite different than Hamonic.

Agreed. I remember being very interested when he first asked for a trade, watching him and getting excited about what he could do, and then when you read a lot about him last year even the Islander media (who love him as a person) were starting to turn on him. It seems like after he hurt his knee a couple seasons ago he just has not been the same player. Trade aside, he is still OK at his current contract value and play. Not great but you can stomach a top 4 dman making under 4 million. I also think some of Hamonic's strength's were neutralized by Smith and yes playing with Brodie doesn't help, but I was expecting a player that did the little things right. Good gap control, good body control, smart sticks and I just don't see much of that.

Get it will mostly be negative around here today and that's fine but in a positive light, I like Rasmus Anderson last night. when he was drafted the complaint was foot speed and conditioning and could those 2 things improve enough to get him to the next level. Conditioning remains to be seen, but by all accounts he's gotten better, but I definitely saw improved foot speed last night. I actually thought he moved very effortless around the ice, which wasn't the case earlier in his career. Absolutely positively, without any question has to be on the club next year. His ceiling is moving higher and higher IMO.

Agreed. If this is the best Hamonic can play Well that's a huge miss by the Flames pro scouts and the Flames are not in good shape for the next few years on their D. Hes been better lately but I still have not been impressed with Hamonic. he's basically a 4/5 defensive man so at his cap hit it isn't awful but it's well below the price paid to acquire him.

Not only would I love to look at the books, never going to happen, I'd love to compare how the Flames finances compare to other Canadian teams and compare the reductions in the last 5-6 seasons. A new arena is needed yes but I'm thinking the Canadian dollar and a recession have more to do with the Flames financial picture than an arena. It's amazing to me how bad of sales people Bettman and Ken king are.

Ok that's fair I wouldn't disagree with much of that. I think you are being a little harsh but I also understand where you are coming from. I personally find it's pretty typical that the first draft for a GM, especially one hired at that point, is a little off because of the turnover and the fact you don't have time to install any concepts the new GM wants. I also think with Treliving having worked in the league for as long as he did I thikn the rapport would already be there but hard to say for sure. I think conceptually your bang on and it's why I strongly advocate that Treliving stay as the GM and I don't think people realize enough that when you change GMs it's a bit change to the organization and it's one that if probably going to set you back. If you have a GM that is mostly doing a good job you keep him and let him work out the issues because if you keep turning over GMs, something the Flames have done a lot, you lose a lot of opportunities as a franchise.

I feel you nailed most of your analysis and I agree with most of it. I'd probably give him a slightly higher grade, probably 7.5, but that's a bit of splitting hairs. In fairness to Treliving he was close to acquiring both Martin Jones and Fredrick Andersson, and by all reports the flames had the better offers on the table, but in both cases the teams dealt them elsewhere because they were Western teams dealing to the East and didn't want their goalies in the West. I think he's done everything he can to fix it but he was left with a mess and nothing to work with. 2014 is also looking like a pretty down draft year. Are you saying that the waster opportunity was Bennett or the rest of the draft? I get we can critique Bennett but to say the Flames should have taken someone else I think is complete revisionist history. There was no way they weren't taking him at 4 that year. They missed some opportunities late for sure, but at the same time there isn't a lot of talent that seems to becoming out of that draft either. 2013 was to me the biggest wasted opportunity this Franchise as seen at the draft in it's history. Seems dramatic but to have 3 first round picks in what was a fiarly deep draft and to take Porier when they did was such a waste. Maybe Klimchukc still pans out but man if the Flames had Theordore, Bowey, Hartman, Burakowsky or Compher things would be pretty different I think.

I would agree you really only need some level of truculance it doens't need to be up and down your lineup. If you can get effective toughness which guys that can play and be physical ie Ferland, Bennett, Tkachuk, Hamonic, Gio etc i'm all for it. But if the choice is speed/skill and truculance you have to go with speed and skill in today's game. Flames need more speed/skill they don't need more truculence or to play a heavier game, they can play that already. If Burke is demanding that, so far at least pubically he isn't, then I would agree he needs to go. I'm not sure I see Burke's influence that much here. Burke in his history has tended to hire people that match his philosophy and then let them work, so I think if Treliving is here and wants to be here its because he agrees with how Burke wants to run the team. Burke understand heiarchy but I also think he hates meddling so I don't get the sense he would tell Treliving how to do his job. could be wrong, but that's just how I see it. I think the biggest reason why I think Treliving is a good GM and needs to stay is you look at the direction of the organization. They are drafting more on speed/skill, with some truculence mixed in, they are seeing results of their drafting, the development seems to be getting better and generally speaking his trades/FA signings are targeting the right kind of player. Yes he missed on Brouwer but that happens and like I said every GM misses. Say what you want about Gulutzan but I think the plan behind his hire was right. Whether or not you think they hit on the coach, I truly believe the way the Flames play the game, in terms of their structure and philosophy, is what you want to see in today's NHL. so for me, Treliving vision and plan for the organization is right and he sees the game the right way IMO. You'll make mistakes along the way that happens, but when the direction and plan is there and I believe it's right it doesn't make sense for me to change that.

Doesn't hurt my feelings at all. Its just not worth it. Like I said I respect your opinion, we just clearly disagree and likely arer't going to change each other minds.

There is zero point in having a discussion with you. All you will do is get mad, yell back and provide no facts or data. Your opinion is your opinion and I respect that, but that really isn't anything to discuss here. Yes I think Treliving should remain the GM. All GMs make mistakes, all GMs make big mistakes the key is to learn and grow and i've seen him do that. Give me a GM and i'll show you a big mistake, probably more than 1. Flames need to stop with the knee jerk reactions and finding a scapegoat for every season. Successful organization do not do that.

The Calgary Flames path to glory a new coach ever 2 years New GM every 4 win Stanley... oh wait...

a NTC sure as heck beats the NMC that Feaster and some other GMs hand out like candy. Game has changed, good luck getting any key player or FA to sign without a NTC these days, so they are hard for GMs to get around. I think Treliving has done a nice job minimizing the impact.

They already agreed to increase taxes, and spending for that matter. Property taxes are going up 3.8% and non residential more although they are taking out of their rainy day fund to limit the impact of the non-residential tax increase. They also restored the money they had originally threatened to cut from Transit. https://globalnews.ca/news/3890788/calgary-city-council-passes-2018-budget-with-property-tax-hike/

I can't believe anyone wants to keep the Panthers in Florida so no I totally agree. I think teams like Panthers, Coyotes, Islanders (arena issue) are all teams what would make more sense for relocation than the Flames. However, I believe that the NHL has a standard clause in its agreement when you buy a team and that is that unless you get BOG permission you can't move a franchise for 7 years. Florida's new owner bought the team in 2013 so he would still be bound by that clause. That was the clause that started the whole NHL vs Jim Ballisille controversy. It will always be about money, but the fact that there has been no meetings, no meeting scheduled and how messy it got in the public eye I believe ego is playing a large part of this as well. I think it's becoming a bigger issue than it should be let me say that.

Yup. Only downside is that between Houston and Quebec City there are still 2 very promising and good destinations the Flames can use as leverage. However, I think this is becoming more about egos then it is economics, relocation, whatever. If the city is unwilling to budge I could see Edwards and co selling just out of spite.