cross16

I just don't see the buzz with Julien. He's barely over .500 with the Habs in his tenure, he's missed the playoffs more than he's made them recently (including the Bruins) and the Bruins have been significantly better since he left. While I am surprised by his firing, most people in Montreal are not. FWIW, this year outside of playing the Canucks the Habs are .500. Not advocating staying with Ward is a better option, because he is not, but Julien isn't that great a coach IMO. Certainly not worth getting excited about and would not be something I would see making things better around here.

This is what is so disappointing to me for the Flames and their coaching staff, there is no creativity around the forecheck. I am find if you are going to be a forechecking team, all teams have to, by why do we still have to define forecheck as bodies in the corners, dump ins, and grind it out. to me forecheck means you have the puck and you work the puck around to wear down the opposition. You don't need to crash and bang to do that, you can do it with great player movement in the o zone, passing and good puck movement. The Flames have the skill to pull this off but instead we have a coaching staff who insists that forechecking means "pucks in deep". It's super disappointing.

I really don't think Ward is going anywhere and even if he did I don't think Julien is a good option. I will give him credit, Montreal actually looked pretty good at 5 on 5 but overall I don't think Julien is that good of a coach. His team's always seem to have a major weakness and he makes just as many questionable line up decisions as most coaches. But like it or not I really don't think Ward is going to get replaced this season and if he does the only person that makes sense to me is Bruce Boudreau.

Even if Markstrom was healthy i would recommend starting Rittich next game. I think he was a little lucky tonight but still played well enough i'm very comfortable needing to play him for a string of games.

I just said the same thing in another thread. It seems to me this is a rare circumstance where taking a step back won’t hurt you. biggest thing I’d leverage is eat money to make deals. If they eat 1-2 mill on Gio does he become more attractive? Ryan? What if you eat some of Monahan/Gaudreau do your offers yet better? Your going to lose money eventually so what’s the point?

I don’t really have anyone in mind because I wouldn’t fire Treliving. I think the problems in this organization are not solved by firing the GM. If people insist on firing someone I’d probably just give Conroy a shot.

I think Mark Hunter is a quality hockey scout but what about his background makes people think he is going to be ready to be a GM or be a good GM? What’s another rookie GM, with even more limited NHL experience, going to do different than Treliving? I’m not sure how that breaks the cycle here.

Unless they really like Huska I’m not sure I see a change coming. It would be a little unprecedented to fire a coach not even half way through this first season when they gave him a 2 year deal. I’m not in support of Ward I just think that’s probably what is going to happen. i think Ward gets the season and if this continue it probably means both he and Treliving are gone at the end of the year and flames are back to square one

Stockton begins their season on Sunday. That’s why you see the majority of those moves. The only newsworthy move on they list is Gawdin. Looks like he may draw in tonight. Which would be smart given that Froese really isn’t very good.

I don’t think the comments he made today speak of a true leader. I think I see what he was trying to do, deflect the criticism, but when you aren’t playing well it should never be 1 player that pulls you out. Has to be a team and a group thing. Don’t get me wrong I am a huge Tkachuk fan but I think he has work to do in the leadership area.

this is a fair and interesting point but at the same time I would counter and say how many good or very good coaches really are their? so much of hiring a coach is not just their skill set but how does that skill set line up with your group. I think there is a reason so few coaches can be considered great and have success wherever they go. This is the same as the goalie argument for me, is there any franchise that really has it figured out? I’m not sure there is a blueprint.

I’m sure it’s a factor to a certain degree but at the same time that standard was around when they hired Sutter. It’s been around for a while.

My biggest hope, and at the same time fear, in all of this is we start asking the right questions. The questions should not be for Ward or for Treliving the questions should be higher. Why have we built a culture that does not appear to be built on accountability? Why does it feel like the budget isn’t there to hire the right coach or an established coach? why isn’t hockey ops allowed to operate independently? why do we have to be “good” every year? It’s time to answer this because in the history of the Flames we keep coming to same conclusion every time despite multiple coaches and multiple GMs. Time to start asking bigger questions. The fear though is that’s not often how it works and I know these owners aren’t going anywhere. Firing Treliving is just rinsing and repeating for the organization and I’m pretty convinced isn’t going to change a darn thing.

i found that interesting too. I also noticed he chose his words very carefully on that subject. Paused quite a bit before he would answer. It is a tricky topic to I get that but thought it was interesting. I’m by no means suggesting I think a move is coming but it does feel like he’s not exactly thrilled with the work.

I think this is harsh. I agree the physical stuff puts him over the edge but his skill set alone makes him worth it IMO. To be clear I think a happy medium needs to be found. I'm not advocating he dump it entirely but he needs to find a happy medium. i agree with the above example of guys like Marchand and burrows who took it took fair but once they found that happy medium become much more effective players. i would also suspect this is what the team was asking of him. I don't believe for second the leadership group said to "Stop" they likely said " tone it down" and I agree with that. Pick your spots.

I'm more in this camp too. The fact that this Muzzin thing, like the Kassian thing last year, is such a big issue is beyond silly to me. He has to find more of a balance and the if this incident is an issue for him or the team then shame on both for not figuring this out.

I'm a fan of BT and still am. I get the opposite side and I get the argument that he should be let go but it's not my personal opinion that he is a pretty good GM. When I look at the job he does and the direction of the organization I personally think it's really positive. I get this group isn't getting it done right now but I personally don't think you can blame all of it on Treliving and I'm not a fan of letting someone go just because the results arn't what you want. You have to look deeper. I get the other side though and many just want change or someone to be held accountable for this. For me it comes down to 3 things: 1 - Why are you firing him? 2 - Who is going to come in? 3 - most importantly. What is that new GM going to do differently?

Summer time. Play-in/playoffs.

I don't normally like stocking the fires of the whole "blame the coach" movement but I found this comment by Tkachuk really interesting. It's up on the Fan 960s main page but he basically says he's tired of hearing about their bubble identity because that wasn't good enough and they need to strive to be better than that. I find it interesting because 1- I 100% agree with him and 2 - Ward has talked a lot about how how they played in the bubble is how he wanted them to play moving forward. https://www.sportsnet.ca/960/

Agreed, i think it's unfair to say players don't care. if they didn't care why would they do this and why would they put the work in? They care and they care a lot they don't just show it the way people want. I am a firm believer that the talent is here. I wouldn't argue the Flames are a top 5-6 talented team in the league but I honestly believe they are not that far behind. They have the pieces where they can go toe to toe with anyone in the league. Would they need things to go their way to win a series against certain teams, for sure but it's there. But how talented you are is irrelevant if the group isn't pulling in the same direction, especially in todays' NHL with so much parity. For me the biggest problem with the Flames right now is they are not pulling in the same direction. It appears to me is you have a divided group in terms of how they should play and what this team needs to do to win. Warrner talked about this yesterday too and honestly it was more interesting to me than the clips posted here. He talked about how that team was a bit divided, you would have their forwards (Iginla/Tanguay) talk about scoring more goals to win and their d core more focused on hey how do we give up less. Just not on the same page. That to me is the issue here. What started it and who is responsible for it I don't know, but that's my biggest question for the Flames right now.

Be interested to hear about that Gilmour book if/when you get around to it.

Agreed. Star players never come up in rumors so when you hear as many rumbling as we did with Gaudreau and Monahan i think there is something to that. Those are the types of players teams never trade so the fact they came up to me tells me he knows what he wants to change. The problem for me is 2 fold. 1- like you say trades are hard even harder in the current economic climate and 2 - those are trades you just can't take whatever you get for it and move on. You need to get value and when you put names like Gaudreau and Monahan out there it's really hard to get good value unless you are willing to take a short term hit. I'm not sure that is an option in Calgary.

I remember Iggy well and you know what else I remember, having the exact same conversation about him as you are saying about Gio. His leadership was constantly questioned on these boards and not just late in his career but in his prime as well when the Flames were constantly bowing out in the first round (sound familiar?) so was Sidney Crosby a good or a bad leader when his team when his team routinely got bounced in the playoffs and got 2 coaches fired? Is he a good or a bad leader now that his team has gone out in the first round in back to back years and his team currently not in a playoff spot? Was Mackinnon a good or a bad leader when he was Colorado's best player on what was a historically bad team? How were they leading their teams then? This idea that a captain is the holy grail of leadership and fully responsible for the performance of the team is pure crap. Leadership is almost never about 1 person.

amen. I'm so tired of this... it was Iginla who wasn't good enough... now it's Gio..... Despite the fact that BOTH won leadership awards and in his book Burke called Gio one of the best leaders he's ever been around. It is not a one man job and it shouldn't be. The captain in hockey is the most overrated position in all of pro sports to fans.

No it is not.