Puustinen Prospect playing for Kamloops

[Fuel_the_Flames]

Taratuhkin had a baby and had to play at home to be near his new family.

Ryder didn't quit the Flames, he quit hockey.

Giordano got some bad advice from his agent. After 2 months in Russia he ran home looking for a contract from Sutter (December 2007).

Puustinen...who knows? My guess is that he had enough of riding buses and decided to make real money in a professional league where they speak his language, pay for his apartment, give him a car and make him feel like a star. Perhaps Sutter didn't want him. He did say in his FAN960 interview that he was near the 50 player roster limit and wanted to give some young players a shot.

Detroit, New Jersey, Philly, Pittsburgh, Dallas, San Jose, Montreal and every other NHL team has guys that they drafted playing professionally in Europe. I suppose that they're all lousy negotiators too, right?

I was going to get into all that but got too lazy. Thank you.

[terence_fong]

Taratuhkin had a baby and had to play at home to be near his new family.

Ryder didn't quit the Flames, he quit hockey.

Giordano got some bad advice from his agent. After 2 months in Russia he ran home looking for a contract from Sutter (December 2007).

Puustinen...who knows? My guess is that he had enough of riding buses and decided to make real money in a professional league where they speak his language, pay for his apartment, give him a car and make him feel like a star. Perhaps Sutter didn't want him. He did say in his FAN960 interview that he was near the 50 player roster limit and wanted to give some young players a shot.

Detroit, New Jersey, Philly, Pittsburgh, Dallas, San Jose, Montreal and every other NHL team has guys that they drafted playing professionally in Europe. I suppose that they're all lousy negotiators too, right?

Sutter could've convinced him to bring his family over or made arrangements to do so?

Sutter could've convinced Ryder to not quit hockey and subsequently the Flames?

Sutter could not out-negotiate Gio's agent and prove to Gio it would be better to be here?

Pusso is still up in the air with no results.

All you people are giving examples of times where there is a big "IF" and that is what I'm referring to. Some GMs have this inane ability to convince a person to see things their way (persuasion or thru deals they can't pass up) and I'm referring to the fact that Sutter does not seem to have this X factor that can WOW a player into doing something his way.

I'm not bashing his GM ability or intellect. This is not about signing Iggy or Dion, this is about taking a losing situation and figuring it out to his benefit. Could he had gone around Gio and convinced him a two way contract might've been better? Maybe...we'll never know of course.

If Sutter was prepared to lose Pusso to the re-draft whynot give him a contract then trade him away if he secretly does not want him on the team?

We're looking at howcome he is unable to keep young prospective impact players, either by luck or situation sometimes out of his control.

[Redslinger]

Sutter could've convinced him to bring his family over or made arrangements to do so?

Sutter could've convinced Ryder to not quit hockey and subsequently the Flames?

Sutter could not out-negotiate Gio's agent and prove to Gio it would be better to be here?

That's ridiculous.

Pusso is still up in the air with no results.

It's not up in the air. Sutter said he won't re-sign him. He wants to make a spot for a younger guy considering the 50 contract limit.

All you people are giving examples of times where there is a big "IF" and that is what I'm referring to. Some GMs have this inane ability to convince a person to see things their way (persuasion or thru deals they can't pass up) and I'm referring to the fact that Sutter does not seem to have this X factor that can WOW a player into doing something his way.

Give me one single example of another GM that has convinced a player to:

a- bring his newborn and wife to a country where they don't speak the language in order to ride buses and make $60,000 per year versus staying at home and making almost $1 million tax free (with paid accomodations); or

b- not quit on his junior team because he didn't want to be a hockey player.

EVERY SINGLE GM IN THE NHL HAS HAD SIMILAR STORIES. Maybe they're all missing the "X factor".

Could he had gone around Gio and convinced him a two way contract might've been better? Maybe...we'll never know of course.

Considering that Giordano signed with the Flames in December I'd suggest that he did convince him to come home. Giordano likely got some bad advice from his agent and obviously realized his mistake quickly considering he got a contract worked out in December.

If Sutter was prepared to lose Pusso to the re-draft whynot give him a contract then trade him away if he secretly does not want him on the team?

There's a 50 contract limit per franchise. Why waste one on a guy that decided mid-season that he's going to play in Europe. Who exactly is going to trade for him considering there's at least 2-3 guys just like him on every junior team in the CHL? So Sutter signs him to a contract and then realizes that nobody wants to trade for him and he lost one of his 50 contracts to a guy that he never wanted to sign. Sounds silly, no?

We're looking at howcome he is unable to keep young prospective impact players, either by luck or situation sometimes out of his control.

The reasons are the same reasons other GM's face when they lose players: money, lifestyle, culture, family, etc. Considering none of the guys we're talking about were NHLers how exactly can you suggest that any of them were prospective impact players. Giordano was the Knights top defenseman. Taratuhkin was good in Omaha. Ryder was good in junior and so was Puustinen. But none of these guys were counted on to make a real impact to the Calgary Flames.

Perhaps you should pay more attention to other GM's failing and only then compare them to Sutter.

[bubbsy]

We're looking at howcome he is unable to keep young prospective impact players, either by luck or situation sometimes out of his control.

my 2 cents on the situation, not knowing the player very well, is that sutter simply doesn't believe he'll result in a very impactful player, so why use up 1 of the 50 contract spots.

i am the first to question sutter these days, but not sure if the bashing seen in this thread is warrented.

Gio, played himself into a 6th/7th dman role with the flames, (if that), the past season. sutter gambled on errikson being better, and was right in the fact that hale was better defensively than gio at that point. if giordano wanted only a 1-way contract, i think sutter had his reasons to let him walk to russia.

with taratukin, the almost exact same thing happened with that huge russian centre the oilers had (too lazy to look up his name which i currently can't remember) who bailed for russia after a year in the AHL, so it's definitely not something isolated to sutter.

as far as i can remember, the knock on ryder was his commitment and work ethic, when u draft a player like that it's always a risk, and in the end was warrented. not sure how u can lay the blame fully on sutter here.

[lunatik-1]

Sutter could've convinced him to bring his family over or made arrangements to do so?

Sutter could've convinced Ryder to not quit hockey and subsequently the Flames?

Sutter could not out-negotiate Gio's agent and prove to Gio it would be better to be here?

Taratukhin had his family here at one point and had visa issues... he wanted a guarenteed roster spot to stay in North America this year... obviously Sutter didn't give him that

Ryder quit due to personal reasons... ther eis nothing anyone could do to prevent this... one can only hope Ryder gets his life in order for himself not a game

The agent told Gio to hold out for a 1-way contract thinking Sutter would cave... and Sutter played his cards right... Gio had not earned a 1 way contratc

Pusso is still up in the air with no results.

sounds much like his WHL season... he under performed as a 19 year old in a league he should have been improving in... Pusstinen's NHL career was finished before it started... IMO if he signed he would be lucky to get a taste of the NHL nevermind a career

All you people are giving examples of times where there is a big "IF" and that is what I'm referring to. Some GMs have this inane ability to convince a person to see things their way (persuasion or thru deals they can't pass up) and I'm referring to the fact that Sutter does not seem to have this X factor that can WOW a player into doing something his way.

and that "X" factor is an if... so you are doing the same thing... and Sutter managed to convince Taratukhin to void his RSL contract to come to North Americ ain the first place... that takes some WOWing

I'm not bashing his GM ability or intellect. This is not about signing Iggy or Dion, this is about taking a losing situation and figuring it out to his benefit. Could he had gone around Gio and convinced him a two way contract might've been better? Maybe...we'll never know of course.

he tried convincing Gio a 2way contract was better... Gio's agent was in his other ear saying the opposite... the kid went for the $$ in the end... and obviously learned his lesson

If Sutter was prepared to lose Pusso to the re-draft whynot give him a contract then trade him away if he secretly does not want him on the team?

We're looking at howcome he is unable to keep young prospective impact players, either by luck or situation sometimes out of his control.

because many believe Pusstinen wants to go back to Finalnd not just play for another NHL organization... but IMO he is just another of a long list of never-will-be players

[cross16]

Well most players do want to play for the NHL so its highly unusual for them to not want to. Something to consider is that Sutter may be trying to lowball him on the contract (see giordano). Also its Sutter's job to convince the play that he should stay and play here rather than the other. Again he does not have a big track record in being able to convince coveted players to come here especially in terms of UFA marquee agents.

If Pusso didn't want to play in the NHL he would have never came to play in the WHL for so long as well. Something to consider is that perhaps Sutter's player negotiation skills are not exactly the greatest? He could not come to terms with Taratuhkin, Ryder, Gio and Pusso. Irregardless of other situations influencing the outcome, the bottom line is he is unable to make it enticing for young players to stay with the flames it seems.

He had Taratukhin and Ryder under contract no problem. Taratukhin was under contract when he left the Flames and this situation is nothing like Pussotinen's. Taratukhin had a family that missed Russia and didn't like the traveling around the States. He wnated to play in the NHL, but he wanted a guaranteed sot with the NHL salary and not the uncertainy of continuing to move his family around. Then Russia came in with a salary that the NHL coulnd't match and Taratukhin took the money and homeland over the NHL.

Ryder was also under contract and the Flames had nothing to do with his leaving. Ryder's commitment has been questioned for years and its one of the reason he kept being left off the World Junior team despite having top seasons year after year.

Like others said, Gio got bad advice and has since returend. so how bad is it for young players to play her? Ramholts took a pay cut to come back to the Flames organization. Phaneuf just signed a 6 year deal, iginla has spent his whole career here despite being on some brutal teams. Regher has signed back to back 5 year contracts and Suter has had no problems getting players like Backlund, Chucko, Irving, and virtually every other player he has drafted under contract. Hes had a contract problem with two players out of the over probably 30-40 that he has drafted. Where in all of that is it suggested he has a problem negotiating.

And again, your might want to straighten out facts before arguing. Sutter signed Ignila, Kipper, Phaneuf,Regher, and it looks like Langkow all long term and all were LESS THAN MARKET VALUE. Of all the problems you can point out about Sutter, contract negotiations is not one of them.

[Flamesbrain]

Well most players do want to play for the NHL so its highly unusual for them to not want to. Something to consider is that Sutter may be trying to lowball him on the contract (see giordano). Also its Sutter's job to convince the play that he should stay and play here rather than the other. Again he does not have a big track record in being able to convince coveted players to come here especially in terms of UFA marquee agents.

From a players perspective "lowballing" would be considered negative. From a fans perspective; with the salary cap in the post lockout NHL, I support & encourage GM's to "lowball" talented player to attempt to make competeitive teams. If you are limitied with either 50 or ~55 million dollars and a 50 man roster, you have to make tough decisions. I am sure that most on here would prefer undervalued players compared to overvalued players? Plus if Jusso is a rookie status would he just make the minimum anyways?

Even at 40+ years old Cujo was a coveted UFA that Sutter apparently beat 6 other teams for. Also according to the latest radio interview, Sutter said there was only one thing he would not aggree to that resulted in Dallas signing Fabian Brunnstrom instead of the Flames? If it was top 6 icetime, I aggree that hockey teams should not be held hostage by players!

[The_People1]

What I don't like about letting Puustinen go is that the Flames are not abundant with prospects that have top 6 potential (especially on the RW!!) Ryder walked out on the team, Boyd is not a sure thing at this point, Taratukhin is a lost cause, Chucko is a major bust, etc. Was Sutter planning on having RW Adam Cracknell play a top 6 role in the NHL soon? That's a long shot. Maybe Sutter is thinking Grant Stevenson is ready to challenge the NHL as a RW on the second line? I'm not sure about that either.

Terrible asset management by Sutter unless Puustinen is surely not NHL material (but from what i've seen and heard, Puustinen was progressing well.)

[terence_fong]

1. It may be ridiculous but it still happened.

2. My answer here would depend on what the amount of players calgary has signed to the contract limit currently is.

3. Sergei Makarov (525k over 3 years) and Igor Larianov come to mind though I'm not sure about anyone else. The problem with trying to prove this situation is that the positive outcome would not really see much media. Its not 60k but both players had established lives and they accepted less money to come here.

4. Though the Flames could've used him, the fact that he got better minutes in the RSL may have made him a better player in terms of development which made it move convincing for the flames to sign him. REMEBER that its them giving him a one way not him surrendering to a two-way.

5. It'd be worth it to use one of the 50 contract slots if you could convince the player to stay and play for your team. If its about the money, promises can be made, people CAN be convinced (see Souray)

6. Not saying it dosen't happen to other GMs, listen to what I said previously, Sutter isn't alone. What I am commenting is infact this inability the same as the other inability of those OTHER GMs to fail to do the same. Why is it that we seem to have so many problems with our prospects sometimes? Tara and Ryder WERE slotted to be impact players (top 6) I don't think many people here saw them as longterm depth players at all.

That's ridiculous.

It's not up in the air. Sutter said he won't re-sign him. He wants to make a spot for a younger guy considering the 50 contract limit.

Give me one single example of another GM that has convinced a player to:

a- bring his newborn and wife to a country where they don't speak the language in order to ride buses and make $60,000 per year versus staying at home and making almost $1 million tax free (with paid accomodations); or

b- not quit on his junior team because he didn't want to be a hockey player.

EVERY SINGLE GM IN THE NHL HAS HAD SIMILAR STORIES. Maybe they're all missing the "X factor".

Considering that Giordano signed with the Flames in December I'd suggest that he did convince him to come home. Giordano likely got some bad advice from his agent and obviously realized his mistake quickly considering he got a contract worked out in December.

There's a 50 contract limit per franchise. Why waste one on a guy that decided mid-season that he's going to play in Europe. Who exactly is going to trade for him considering there's at least 2-3 guys just like him on every junior team in the CHL? So Sutter signs him to a contract and then realizes that nobody wants to trade for him and he lost one of his 50 contracts to a guy that he never wanted to sign. Sounds silly, no?

The reasons are the same reasons other GM's face when they lose players: money, lifestyle, culture, family, etc. Considering none of the guys we're talking about were NHLers how exactly can you suggest that any of them were prospective impact players. Giordano was the Knights top defenseman. Taratuhkin was good in Omaha. Ryder was good in junior and so was Puustinen. But none of these guys were counted on to make a real impact to the Calgary Flames.

Perhaps you should pay more attention to other GM's failing and only then compare them to Sutter.

[terence_fong]

1. Yes i realize the situations each player had to not play. "Gauraunteed Roster Spot" is pretty ambigious really, you could easily tell Tara pretty much anything to make him believe he had that spot. Its likely the choice of words used that made Tara believe that he would be expendable. A shrewd negotiator may have been able to mislead Tara into thinking his roster spot was secured therefore being able to see him play in the NHL and who knows? Maybe he will have kept the spot? Ryder well....yeah its too personal to even go there, though sometimes you can hope that Sutter could've made a difference and therefore making him believe in hockey? Hard to say and none of it is the fault of Sutter. Gio? Well he has a 1 way contract now apparently..so who won those negotiations really?

2. The X factor of bringing Tara over is EXACTLY what im referring to. The question is, was this a onetime thing or howcome Sutter could've produce more magic? People thinking im bashing him, I'm commenting on WHERE THIS X FACTOR IS!!!

3. Again Gio...see above. Gio got 1way now.

4. Well it goes back to being how well Sutter is at talking at the tables dosen't it? People believe that America was "The land of Opportunity" at one time didn't they?

Taratukhin had his family here at one point and had visa issues... he wanted a guarenteed roster spot to stay in North America this year... obviously Sutter didn't give him that

Ryder quit due to personal reasons... ther eis nothing anyone could do to prevent this... one can only hope Ryder gets his life in order for himself not a game

The agent told Gio to hold out for a 1-way contract thinking Sutter would cave... and Sutter played his cards right... Gio had not earned a 1 way contratc

sounds much like his WHL season... he under performed as a 19 year old in a league he should have been improving in... Pusstinen's NHL career was finished before it started... IMO if he signed he would be lucky to get a taste of the NHL nevermind a career

and that "X" factor is an if... so you are doing the same thing... and Sutter managed to convince Taratukhin to void his RSL contract to come to North Americ ain the first place... that takes some WOWing

he tried convincing Gio a 2way contract was better... Gio's agent was in his other ear saying the opposite... the kid went for the $$ in the end... and obviously learned his lesson

because many believe Pusstinen wants to go back to Finalnd not just play for another NHL organization... but IMO he is just another of a long list of never-will-be players

[The_People1]

^ I think Taratukhin took off to Russia after Sutter signed Mark Smith. The math was simple. The Flames were going to carry 14 forwards going into the season and the signing of Mark Smith meant that all 14 roster spots were taken.

I just don't want to see any more deals like the Mark Smith one that's going to take a roster spot away from a hungry AHLer trying to crack the NHL as an energy player on the 4th line. Taratukhin would've settled for that but didn't even see the chance to do so. Unfortunately for him, had he been patient, he probably would've been the first call up and Boyd would've played in the AHL all season long.

[cross16]

^ I think Taratukhin took off to Russia after Sutter signed Mark Smith. The math was simple. The Flames were going to carry 14 forwards going into the season and the signing of Mark Smith meant that all 14 roster spots were taken.

I just don't want to see any more deals like the Mark Smith one that's going to take a roster spot away from a hungry AHLer trying to crack the NHL as an energy player on the 4th line. Taratukhin would've settled for that but didn't even see the chance to do so. Unfortunately for him, had he been patient, he probably would've been the first call up and Boyd would've played in the AHL all season long.

No. Smith was signed after training camp with guys like Germyn and Boyd failed to crack the lineup. He was signed Septh 29th[/post] and Taratukhin fled before camp which was Sept 5th. They weren't related. He left becuase he got the offer and there was already Langkow, Lombardi, Conroy, and yelle under contract and he chose to take the guaranteed money and his homeland over the chance he could be back down in the A. Smith had nothing to do with it.

I would agree but I think the Smith one differed because the only reason he was brought in was because no one took the job. Peters, Germyn and Sutter jr had good camps, but not good enough to show they were NHL ready. I think Sutter was counting on that but had to go after Smith once he didn't get someone who showed they were ready.

[lanny4mayor]

you could easily tell Tara pretty much anything to make him believe he had that spot. Its likely the choice of words used that made Tara believe that he would be expendable. A shrewd negotiator may have been able to mislead Tara into thinking his roster spot was secured therefore being able to see him play in the NHL

WOW!!!!!!!!

It's good to see your ethical and moral standards are so high. If Sutter started making empty promoses to players and their agents, it would take no time at all for the Flames to have a reputation of disenguity. No player would ever want to play here so long as the Sutter you hope for was around. You berate Sutter for being honest and upstanding. That is one of the most ridiculous and sad statements I have read on these boards (and there have been MANY ridiculous posts over the years).

Sutter is not without his flaws but I do not see honesty as a flaw that I want him to fix!!

[terence_fong]

WOW!!!!!!!!

It's good to see your ethical and moral standards are so high. If Sutter started making empty promoses to players and their agents, it would take no time at all for the Flames to have a reputation of disenguity. No player would ever want to play here so long as the Sutter you hope for was around. You berate Sutter for being honest and upstanding. That is one of the most ridiculous and sad statements I have read on these boards (and there have been MANY ridiculous posts over the years).

Sutter is not without his flaws but I do not see honesty as a flaw that I want him to fix!!

I'm not speaking as if to outright LIE to him. But you sure as heck don't tell him the opposite would you? Its a business that they run here and maybe you're thinking too highly of the business world. In the end Sutter needs to build a winning product in order to keep his job and I think at the end of the day behind closed doors, moral and ethical values don't really matter.

The difference between making a "grey" statement to encourage the player to make him BELIEVE that he had the roster spot is much different than telling him outright "You are not getting anything."

Its the politics of the working world and is not subject to moral/ethical standards.

How do you think us law firms make money?

[Redslinger]

I'm not speaking as if to outright LIE to him. But you sure as heck don't tell him the opposite would you? Its a business that they run here and maybe you're thinking too highly of the business world. In the end Sutter needs to build a winning product in order to keep his job and I think at the end of the day behind closed doors, moral and ethical values don't really matter.

That's just not correct. Sutters business is people. It is his job to convince the best players to either come to the franchise or stay with the franchise. You can't do that by talking out of both sides of your mouth. That's part of the reason the fiasco in Edmonton has occured.

The difference between making a "grey" statement to encourage the player to make him BELIEVE that he had the roster spot is much different than telling him outright "You are not getting anything."

Its the politics of the working world and is not subject to moral/ethical standards.

Do you honestly think Taratuhkin (or his agent) is that stupid? The Flames had five NHL-caliber centers already under contract. I don't know what "working world" you live in but if I treated my employees like that I wouldn't have any.

How do you think us law firms make money?

It all makes sense now.

[terence_fong]

Nobody said LIE to Tara. I just said to merely let him believe that he had that spot even if you didn't have the spot. Its called a poker face! At the very least even if he stayed for a little bit, you'd still be able to see how effective he was in the NHL before letting him totally walk away.

What you're doing is giving him the impression that the position is HIS TO LOSE rather than HIS TO GAIN. One is a glass half empty statement and the other is a half full statement. I don't know exact words of course they would use but I'm referring to treating it that way and maybe we would've seen him play a bit even if he wasn't NHL calibre and left anyways. This way we'll never know if he would've been helpful to the team or not.

Hey its a business world and its dog-eat-dog for the big money. You shouldn't be so surprised. Anyhow thats off topic and getting to personal with everyone so lets forget about that comment.

EDIT: You have GMs misleading people all the time. Signing a player for X years means you are saying you are comitted to that player. But what happens? Players get waived, bought out or traded all the time. Its part of the business and what I mean by dealing with Tara is the same way you tell a 4 mil defenseman he'll be here for X years but have him play one year then buy him out or waive him for the rest of his contract (Just as an example).

That's just not correct. Sutters business is people. It is his job to convince the best players to either come to the franchise or stay with the franchise. You can't do that by talking out of both sides of your mouth. That's part of the reason the fiasco in Edmonton has occured.

Do you honestly think Taratuhkin (or his agent) is that stupid? The Flames had five NHL-caliber centers already under contract. I don't know what "working world" you live in but if I treated my employees like that I wouldn't have any.

It all makes sense now.

[lanny4mayor]

Nobody said LIE to Tara. I just said to merely let him believe that he had that spot even if you didn't have the spot. Its called a poker face! At the very least even if he stayed for a little bit, you'd still be able to see how effective he was in the NHL before letting him totally walk away.

What you're doing is giving him the impression that the position is HIS TO LOSE rather than HIS TO GAIN. One is a glass half empty statement and the other is a half full statement. I don't know exact words of course they would use but I'm referring to treating it that way and maybe we would've seen him play a bit even if he wasn't NHL calibre and left anyways. This way we'll never know if he would've been helpful to the team or not.

Hey its a business world and its dog-eat-dog for the big money. You shouldn't be so surprised. Anyhow thats off topic and getting to personal with everyone so lets forget about that comment.

You work in law. I work in marketing. It is clear to me that we won't see eye to eye on this. I'm going to agree to disagree with your suggested business tactics.

Yes, it is all about the almighty dollar but teams/businesses get good reputations over many years of conducting themselves in as fair and ethical a manner as possible to each of their stakeholders (players/employees, fans/customers, agents/suppliers, etc.). It takes as little as one bad decision to potentially cripple the same reputation and even the business as a whole. Especially in today's social network filled world, bad news travels amazingly fast. I see the Flames jersey as a brand that has faithful followers and engaged fans, players, and employees. Players want to come to Calgary again (during the 90's, the Flames as a team started to get some bad reputational dialog about not treating players with respect - that reputation has since been re-built up to where we are today). I would suggest we do not do anything to negatively affect our brand.

So Terence, I can't fault you for your passion and desire for the team to be better. But, 'better' means more than simply the skill on the ice. [Here endeth my rant]

Go Flames!!!!

[terence_fong]

You work in law. I work in marketing. It is clear to me that we won't see eye to eye on this. I'm going to agree to disagree with your suggested business tactics.

Yes, it is all about the almighty dollar but teams/businesses get good reputations over many years of conducting themselves in as fair and ethical a manner as possible to each of their stakeholders (players/employees, fans/customers, agents/suppliers, etc.). It takes as little as one bad decision to potentially cripple the same reputation and even the business as a whole. Especially in today's social network filled world, bad news travels amazingly fast. I see the Flames jersey as a brand that has faithful followers and engaged fans, players, and employees. Players want to come to Calgary again (during the 90's, the Flames as a team started to get some bad reputational dialog about not treating players with respect - that reputation has since been re-built up to where we are today). I would suggest we do not do anything to negatively affect our brand.

So Terence, I can't fault you for your passion and desire for the team to be better. But, 'better' means more than simply the skill on the ice. [Here endeth my rant]

Go Flames!!!!

I cede that you have a good point. But now we're wandering into intangibles (reputation) vs tangibles (player actually playing in NHL for a few games). I think the "reputation" risk of such action is quite low given that a player of Tara's stature has not garnered him much respect in the NHL yet. Most people would not believe an unproven rookie vs a proven GM if the rookie were to say that the GM had promised him a roster spot but failed to deliver. The GM could merely point out that Tara lost the roster spot he was "given" and would still maintain his credibility.

Obviously this kind of tactic would not work vs a Joe Sakic or Iggy (heaven forbid someone trying that on them), this is with an unproven rookie player albeit slightly underhanded in some ways to get him to stay.

This of course has strayed off course. My original point was that I'm saddened that we may have lost another player with the offensive skills we need in our depth positions without ever getting to see him play in the NHL. Its something Calgary can ill afford to lose at this point given the lack of offensive prospects outside of a few, and none of which are blue-chip (Backlund maybe).

[cross16]

I cede that you have a good point. But now we're wandering into intangibles (reputation) vs tangibles (player actually playing in NHL for a few games). I think the "reputation" risk of such action is quite low given that a player of Tara's stature has not garnered him much respect in the NHL yet. Most people would not believe an unproven rookie vs a proven GM if the rookie were to say that the GM had promised him a roster spot but failed to deliver. The GM could merely point out that Tara lost the roster spot he was "given" and would still maintain his credibility.

Obviously this kind of tactic would not work vs a Joe Sakic or Iggy (heaven forbid someone trying that on them), this is with an unproven rookie player albeit slightly underhanded in some ways to get him to stay.

This of course has strayed off course. My original point was that I'm saddened that we may have lost another player with the offensive skills we need in our depth positions without ever getting to see him play in the NHL. Its something Calgary can ill afford to lose at this point given the lack of offensive prospects outside of a few, and none of which are blue-chip (Backlund maybe).

Your not wrong, but once it happens 2 times or more people start to ask questions about your integrity regardless of what the situation is. Just look at Mike Giles. Lowe, and there are rumblings others feel the same way, have arleady stated a dislike for Giles because he did exactly what your describing. Sure you may get away with it once, but your long term effect is much worth. Is it worth it to potentially lose a FA down the road because you wanted to see if a guy could make your team? Even if you come away with the upperhand, the mere thought or accusation looms over the situation like a Kaigrdov in Ottawa. That was a he said, they said situation that was never clarified but it put Ottawa under the microscope.

IN specific regards to PUsstinen I know some people may be upset about losing him, and I am too, but i think people are jumping to conclusions here. 1- Good numbers don't always means stardom or solid play. Pusstinen took a step back this year and often times showed disinterest in the game and a "i don't want to be here" attitude in Kamloops. NOw obviously Kamloops is a struggling program but it creates questions. 2nd - he signed in Finland right way. Hasn't re declared for the draft, and is already gone. Does that exactly spell "I want to play in the NHL" to anyone. Sure it may be a safety net, but why sign this soon? If it was a safety net the contract would still be there in the summer and it wouldn't affect his draft status.

When you add up the facts it points to PUstinen not wanting to play in the NHL and not Sutter not wanting to sign him. Its not uncommon either. Sure most play in the NHL but just look at the line that is starting to file overseas rather than play in the NHL.

[FlamesFanatic]

The Flames had five NHL-caliber centers already under contract.

Really? Where are they???

So are you telling me you'd rather have a Smith, or Yelle or Primeau over Tukes? Thanks but not thanks. Primeau maybe, but Yelle didn't have that great a year and Smith is Smith,

[cross16]

Really? Where are they???

So are you telling me you'd rather have a Smith, or Yelle or Primeau over Tukes? Thanks but not thanks. Primeau maybe, but Yelle didn't have that great a year and Smith is Smith,

at the time it was Langkow, Lombardi, Conroy, Yelle, and Primeau. Hindsight is pretty easy, but at the time no one would have suggested moving one of those players to fit Taratukhin on the team. Its easy to say oh well Yelle didn't have a great year so Taratukhin should have been here, but at the time Yelle was still considered a defensive wiz and the team's best PKer and is still that. Yelle is a 4th line center who can play the PK and you have no idea wether Taratukhin would have A) accepted that role, or been nearly as good as Yelle at it.

smith wasn't on the team when Taratukhin left.

[Barney_Gumble]

Really? Where are they???

So are you telling me you'd rather have a Smith, or Yelle or Primeau over Tukes? Thanks but not thanks. Primeau maybe, but Yelle didn't have that great a year and Smith is Smith,

Would I rather have a bona-fide NHL'er with several years of experience over some kid who wants a guarantee to make the team, before training camp even starts?

Every day, and twice on Sunday.

[lunatik-1]

Would I rather have a bona-fide NHL'er with several years of experience over some kid who wants a guarantee to make the team, before training camp even starts?

Every day, and twice on Sunday.

aint that the truth

flames fans are so obsessed with wanting to get younger they don't realize that our prospects are 3rd liners at best right now

[chan123]

from CalgarySun ( http://calsun.canoe.ca/Sports/Hockey/2008/...77911-sun.html)

The Flames say an IIHF transaction report that assistant coach Wayne Fleming has signed on to become head coach of the Dinamo Minsk in Belarus is "inaccurate," although Fleming is a candidate for the position ... Of the eight Flames draftees from 2006, only two are signed -- G Leland Irving and C/RW John Armstrong. Sutter says he still has to decide whether C Hugo Carpentier and LW Devin Didiomete are worthy of pro contracts. They will retain rights to college players C Jordan Fulton and C Aaron Marvin until they graduate, and the uncertainty of the IIHF transfer agreement may allow them to keep the rights of European players RW Juuso Puustinen and D Per Jonsson. Puustinen has signed with a team in his native Finland for next season.

[Barney_Gumble]

from CalgarySun ( http://calsun.canoe.ca/Sports/Hockey/2008/05/27/5677911-sun.html)' target="_blank">http://calsun.canoe.ca/Sports/Hockey/2008/...77911-sun.html)[/post]

The Flames say an IIHF transaction report that assistant coach Wayne Fleming has signed on to become head coach of the Dinamo Minsk in Belarus is "inaccurate," although Fleming is a candidate for the position ... Of the eight Flames draftees from 2006, only two are signed -- G Leland Irving and C/RW John Armstrong. Sutter says he still has to decide whether C Hugo Carpentier and LW Devin Didiomete are worthy of pro contracts. They will retain rights to college players C Jordan Fulton and C Aaron Marvin until they graduate, and the uncertainty of the IIHF transfer agreement may allow them to keep the rights of European players RW Juuso Puustinen and D Per Jonsson. Puustinen has signed with a team in his native Finland for next season.

Thanks for pointing out the discussion that occurred last week.

Check page one of this thread.