GDT Flames @ Vegas Feb 23/22 7:00pm Start

[rocketdoctor]

it's kinda depressing.

 

Seen this story too many times this season

 

Go Flames Go!

[conundrumed]

1 hour ago, rocketdoctor said:

it's kinda depressing.

 

Seen this story too many times this season

 

Go Flames Go!

Watch the Wings.lol

Zero fan expectations for another year or 2, yet they're way exceeding and fun to watch. The battle cry with fans is, "let's get swept by the Bruins". Great fanbase and Ken Daniels/Mickey Redmond are awesome commentary. Last night(NYR) Mickey told us the Bud the Spud story about NYR coach Gallant. He's too funny. There must be a "Mickey's Moments" on YouTube. He's a riot.

Commentary is very balanced, best in the league, easily.

Always great interviews

 

[travel_dude]

5 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Watch the Wings.lol

Zero fan expectations for another year or 2, yet they're way exceeding and fun to watch. The battle cry with fans is, "let's get swept by the Bruins". Great fanbase and Ken Daniels/Mickey Redmond are awesome commentary. Last night(NYR) Mickey told us the Bud the Spud story about NYR coach Gallant. He's too funny. There must be a "Mickey's Moments" on YouTube. He's a riot.

Commentary is very balanced, best in the league, easily.

 

For those of us in the SN West region, we get force fed Oilers dominating the universe.

Early games or weekend matinée games, if we get them are PITTS, BOS or PITTS vs BOS.

The bozos from NESN, wicked good and chowda.

Paing blathering on...

 

No dog in the fight, so it's just early evening entertainment.

I appreciate a good game, but other things to do in a day.

 

I'm actually to the point where I don't want the Flames to win.

What is the point when you win one lose one or lose two?

Just lose a bunch and get the team to decide if they have the right coach for once and for all.

You know the players must be at that point themselves.

What are we doing here?

How is this system supposed to win games?

Why are we just trying to injure other teams? 

 

First shift of OT, and we send out Backlund and Tanev.

Backlund gets a small rush chance and weak shot attempt on net.

Two F decide to change, one going off then Backlund after the loss of possession.

An OT start designed not to get scored on.

But the plan is go offense and not defend, with a defensive line.

Not get possession and move chess pieces around.

Not make the change when you are passing around.

Wasn't the worst OT I have seen but no idea what the plan was.

 

But the 3rd period is always the problem for us.

Sutter claims that the 2nd goal (which he said Vladar would love to have back) allowed Vegas to get the win.  They started playing after that.  But, hey, we had the win on our stick, hit crossbar.  Have to go high on goalie and below the crossbar.  Yeah, with 3 shots in the 3rd, a late PP goal may get us a win or a similar OT result.  3-1 leads are the most dangerous ones to try to hold if you don't continue what got that lead.  No, Vegas didn't win the game.  We gave up the game by playing prevent.

[conundrumed]

Yeah it really sucks that my positives for the Flames has turned into, "watch the Wings".

I want everyone over 25 gone, excluding Huberdeau, Weegar and Andersson. Let's try this again.

Say lots of positives about Backlund all you like, but he's been the poster boy for this constant enigma for years.

My heart into this team is now on par with the heart they show.

The only guys giving it their all are Dube and the callups. I can forgive a young team trying and losing. A vet team looking lost after every single misfortune is pathetic.

I've never seen an NHL team get more down after a goal against, especially an early one, but any one, really.

It's indescribable, the zero mental fortitude that this team has.

I make it no secret I'm a Wings fan too. In my wildest dreams I didn't suspect they'd be better than the Flames this early.

It makes me crazy. All I can think is, "so now what"? Will Anaheim/ARI/Chi-town surpass us soon?

Scary thought.

I thought like many that the offseason upheaval would take time to balance out. But we're stagnated in mediocrity although we seem good. Can't get the timely save, can't get the timely goal. Just stuck in suspended hope.

I'm lost for words, frustrated af.

So I watch the Wings and go, waitaminute....total 180.

[tmac70]

Coach says tired team players say they sat back. The game itself was played well till Vldar allowed a soft one to give back momentum. Now is it on Vldar, no it's a team sport, however, the players sitting back is not a coach's mandate that's the players trying to play cautiously. The fact that some here think the coaches advocate this type of practice is absurd. In any professional sport the minute you try to preserve a lead it will bite because you're mentally going into a negative transition of preservation, they don't stick to the plan per se.  I don't see a team that has given up on the coaching or systems either. They have been too close to many times in games that is apparent. What I see is a mentally fragile group that doesn't believe in their capabilities and reliance on each other to complete the mission. The ability and mental attitude to get a lead and score is there,  to withstand a pushback or hold a lead is not. 

 

Me personally I think the capabilities to play well are there, the systems work, and this club has the depth and ability to win games. We have been in more games than we have gotten blown out. If we were getting blitzed every game and there was no emotion in a vast majority of the games, then yes I would agree the room is lost ( Watch the Berube interview for example of players mailing it in).

 

[travel_dude]

5 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Yeah it really sucks that my positives for the Flames has turned into, "watch the Wings".

I want everyone over 25 gone, excluding Huberdeau, Weegar and Andersson. Let's try this again.

Say lots of positives about Backlund all you like, but he's been the poster boy for this constant enigma for years.

My heart into this team is now on par with the heart they show.

The only guys giving it their all are Dube and the callups. I can forgive a young team trying and losing. A vet team looking lost after every single misfortune is pathetic.

I've never seen an NHL team get more down after a goal against, especially an early one, but any one, really.

It's indescribable, the zero mental fortitude that this team has.

I make it no secret I'm a Wings fan too. In my wildest dreams I didn't suspect they'd be better than the Flames this early.

It makes me crazy. All I can think is, "so now what"? Will Anaheim/ARI/Chi-town surpass us soon?

Scary thought.

I thought like many that the offseason upheaval would take time to balance out. But we're stagnated in mediocrity although we seem good. Can't get the timely save, can't get the timely goal. Just stuck in suspended hope.

I'm lost for words, frustrated af.

So I watch the Wings and go, waitaminute....total 180.

 

I can relate.  I may have a bit more time for Toffoli, but unless he shoots, he's boring.

Ya have to feel for the goalies.

Hey, we have your back, only 10 shots over 2.  

Let's start to dump and chase and put this to bed.

Wake up, we forgot there was another team out there.

Sorry about leaving  guy open, what?  You let that one in?  Shoulda had it.

Ok, up by one?  Dump and chase.  What they tied it up?

Let's coast into OT.

Put Lucic out there to ensure we get to OT.

 

The game plan matches the output.

Get a few and hang on.

Wait till you are down 2 and try to get back in.

[travel_dude]

6 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

Coach says tired team players say they sat back. The game itself was played well till Vldar allowed a soft one to give back momentum. Now is it on Vldar, no it's a team sport, however, the players sitting back is not a coach's mandate that's the players trying to play cautiously. The fact that some here think the coaches advocate this type of practice is absurd. In any professional sport the minute you try to preserve a lead it will bite because you're mentally going into a negative transition of preservation, they don't stick to the plan per se.  I don't see a team that has given up on the coaching or systems either. They have been too close to many times in games that is apparent. What I see is a mentally fragile group that doesn't believe in their capabilities and reliance on each other to complete the mission. The ability and mental attitude to get a lead and score is there,  to withstand a pushback or hold a lead is not. 

 

Me personally I think the capabilities to play well are there, the systems work, and this club has the depth and ability to win games. We have been in more games than we have gotten blown out. If we were getting blitzed every game and there was no emotion in a vast majority of the games, then yes I would agree the room is lost ( Watch the Berube interview for example of players mailing it in).

 

 

Oh, so tired. Lucic played 13 minutes against Arizona, so everyone else was less than normal.

If you listen to the coach, it's always protect the lead.

Down one, get tied.  Up one, hold the lead.

 

Let me ask you this?

Did the players decide to have Lucic out there when they took the penalty?

Did Lucic decide he would play like crap and still play 13 minutes against a top team?

On for a goal against, and he still plays the last minute of a tied game?

Sounds like coaching to me.

[conundrumed]

9 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I can relate.  I may have a bit more time for Toffoli, but unless he shoots, he's boring.

Ya have to feel for the goalies.

Hey, we have your back, only 10 shots over 2.  

Let's start to dump and chase and put this to bed.

Wake up, we forgot there was another team out there.

Sorry about leaving  guy open, what?  You let that one in?  Shoulda had it.

Ok, up by one?  Dump and chase.  What they tied it up?

Let's coast into OT.

Put Lucic out there to ensure we get to OT.

 

The game plan matches the output.

Get a few and hang on.

Wait till you are down 2 and try to get back in.

The Vrana trade rumours keep swirling. If it is factual, I'd have no problem trying him. Detroit retains 50%, offer them a 4th or next yrs 3rd. If he's in fact going to be traded, it's because Yzerman has decided he's not necessary. Detroit is fully stocked at fwd. We'll see what happens.

[travel_dude]

2 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

The Vrana trade rumours keep swirling. If it is factual, I'd have no problem trying him. Detroit retains 50%, offer them a 4th or next yrs 3rd. If he's in fact going to be traded, it's because Yzerman has decided he's not necessary. Detroit is fully stocked at fwd. We'll see what happens.

 

Do you think they would do a pick plus Lucic?

I mean they aren't a bunch of whimps, but nice to protect the stars.

It's just cap going their way with Lucic, only about $400k in salary to be paid.

Maybe toss in Mackey for the troubles?

[conundrumed]

1 minute ago, travel_dude said:

 

Do you think they would do a pick plus Lucic?

I mean they aren't a bunch of whimps, but nice to protect the stars.

It's just cap going their way with Lucic, only about $400k in salary to be paid.

Maybe toss in Mackey for the troubles?

Neither. They would never see the ice. Jonny Burgers sat last night, Zadina the game before. Both a LOT better than Lucic. Mackey would have to be better than Hagg or Oesterle. At his best, he's not. Both Lucic and Mackey would be in GR if they want ice time. Detroit has 15 better options than Lucic, 9 and counting better than Mackey.

Put it this way. if injury devastation hits, Lucic is the 2-3 call-up, Mackey likely 3-4.

When Raymond gets back, it's already an immediate struggle of who to sit.

Vrana, Berggren, Zadina, Kubalik. And none of them sit for Lucic. Call-ups can be Soderblom, Hanas, Erne. Likely all better than Lucic.

Don't get me started on farm D depth that's better than Mackey.

Although we should cozy up to Detroit as a trade partner.

[travel_dude]

8 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Neither. They would never see the ice. Jonny Burgers sat last night, Zadina the game before. Both a LOT better than Lucic. Mackey would have to be better than Hagg or Oesterle. At his best, he's not. Both Lucic and Mackey would be in GR if they want ice time. Detroit has 15 better options than Lucic, 9 and counting better than Mackey.

Put it this way. if injury devastation hits, Lucic is the 2-3 call-up, Mackey likely 3-4.

When Raymond gets back, it's already an immediate struggle of who to sit.

Vrana, Berggren, Zadina, Kubalik. And none of them sit for Lucic. Call-ups can be Soderblom, Hanas, Erne. Likely all better than Lucic.

Don't get me started on farm D depth that's better than Mackey.

Although we should cozy up to Detroit as a trade partner.

 

It's been awhile.  Ii would be okay with a retained salary trade.

He's a project and it may complicate the cap next year, but that is next year.

He's likely better than 3 of our bottom line players.

 

I think it's too obvious that we have no reason to keep Lewis or Lucic and I would even suggest Ritchie.

Send him to play with his brother.

Lewis is 44% on the dot this year and 42 last year.

Unwilling to use Ruzie there?  46% in limited games at C.

We can retain 50% on Lucic and it's just fake money.

See if VAN would want him to finish out the season.

They need a good string of losses.

[conundrumed]

If I'm Detroit, I'm staring straight at Lindholm to be the 2C and push Copp to 3.

Lots of assets and that would crush it.

Wallinder, Sebrango and a first this year just to start the conversation and progress from there. Maybe Kasper can be in the convo.

Lindholm is precisely what Detroit needs, a solid 2C.

But patience is on their side.

[travel_dude]

Just now, conundrumed said:

If I'm Detroit, I'm staring straight at Lindholm to be the 2C and push Copp to 3.

Lots of assets and that would crush it.

Wallinder, Sebrango and a first this year just to start the conversation and progress from there. Maybe Kasper can be in the convo.

Lindholm is precisely what Detroit needs, a solid 2C.

But patience is on their side.

 

The one guy we have had that maybe plays above his level, but is always producing above his salary.  Yeah that might change, but not exactly the right time to make the change.  We should have an idea of the cost to re-sign and his wanting to be here.  Wingers are easier to replace. I would do Toffoli way before Lindholm.  But that's me.

 

If we are selling the oldies, then I hang onto Backlund unless there is a crazy offer.  Hold him to TDL next year.  Hanifin might be in the same boat.  I think the market for him is better this summer.  We can't really do a rebuild, so a retool is all that's available.  Tanev, Hanifin, Mangiapane, Toffoli, Z, Backlund, Coleman out at some point, and we have added enough cap or traded for players that could turn around the team.

 

Oh yeah, ditch the coach since he is making it worse.

[tmac70]

11 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Oh, so tired. Lucic played 13 minutes against Arizona, so everyone else was less than normal.

If you listen to the coach, it's always protect the lead.

Down one, get tied.  Up one, hold the lead.

 

Let me ask you this?

Did the players decide to have Lucic out there when they took the penalty?

Did Lucic decide he would play like crap and still play 13 minutes against a top team?

On for a goal against, and he still plays the last minute of a tied game?

Sounds like coaching to me.

I would still say its a player issue not a coaching or plan issue. 

 

Let me ask you this, Did you have an issue of the 3-1 lead after the 1st? If so I can pretty much assure you the game plan never changed coming from the coaches it was the mind shift of the players that create the down fall

[medatswhoP]

35 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

The one guy we have had that maybe plays above his level, but is always producing above his salary.  Yeah that might change, but not exactly the right time to make the change.  We should have an idea of the cost to re-sign and his wanting to be here.  Wingers are easier to replace. I would do Toffoli way before Lindholm.  But that's me.

 

If we are selling the oldies, then I hang onto Backlund unless there is a crazy offer.  Hold him to TDL next year.  Hanifin might be in the same boat.  I think the market for him is better this summer.  We can't really do a rebuild, so a retool is all that's available.  Tanev, Hanifin, Mangiapane, Toffoli, Z, Backlund, Coleman out at some point, and we have added enough cap or traded for players that could turn around the team.

 

Oh yeah, ditch the coach since he is making it worse.

100% agree with this thread, with the exception of Tanev I would like him to stay as he is a work horse who always sacrifices his body no matter if its a puck or a body.  I like what I seen in Berube's blast on the top players for the Blues, I wish Sutter would call out poor play, but he needs to look in the mirror also on his coaching decisions, this isnt hockey like it was 20 years ago where you get a lead and go 100% foot "off" the forward gas and just try to eat the clock by stepping back.

Hanfin does need to go, Coleman never was a fan of him but he comes through every few games just like many of these players. Backs also I could care less to replace him also.

Time to go young get rid of some oldies.

 

[conundrumed]

20 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

The one guy we have had that maybe plays above his level, but is always producing above his salary.  Yeah that might change, but not exactly the right time to make the change.  We should have an idea of the cost to re-sign and his wanting to be here.  Wingers are easier to replace. I would do Toffoli way before Lindholm.  But that's me.

 

If we are selling the oldies, then I hang onto Backlund unless there is a crazy offer.  Hold him to TDL next year.  Hanifin might be in the same boat.  I think the market for him is better this summer.  We can't really do a rebuild, so a retool is all that's available.  Tanev, Hanifin, Mangiapane, Toffoli, Z, Backlund, Coleman out at some point, and we have added enough cap or traded for players that could turn around the team.

 

Oh yeah, ditch the coach since he is making it worse.

Hanging on to Backlund for what reason? He's effectively been the one player in this prolonged, "we're almost good enough".  Who in their right mind is making a crazy offer for Backlund? He's a bottom 6, dime a dozen center.

Let's see what Henrique fetches, there's your guideline.

Maybe Toffoli gets a decent return. Probably not great.

But BT has yet to show great player-for-player trades if you remove the Hamilton trade.

Wallinder is potentially a 1RD, but Seider is already there. He makes great trade fodder, or Detroit has the market cornered on Dmen. They have enough D prospects for 2 NHL teams.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, tmac70 said:

I would still say its a player issue not a coaching or plan issue. 

 

Let me ask you this, Did you have an issue of the 3-1 lead after the 1st? If so I can pretty much assure you the game plan never changed coming from the coaches it was the mind shift of the players that create the down fall

 

Opinions not proof.

Your opinion and mine combined + $2.18 gets you a large Tims.

 

1st and 2nd periods, fine.  One goal against with the Vegas PP.

The penalty was taken with the 4th line out there.

3rd period, 4th line out there for two shifts in the first 5 minutes.

Vegas scores on their 2nd shift.

Weak goal, blame the goalie.

Not getting any momentum?

Play 4th line every 3 minutes for the rest of the game.

 

Couldn't be coaching.

[conundrumed]

5 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

Your opinion and mine combined + $2.18 gets you a large Tims.

Whereas $1.00 currently gets you a far superior MacDonald's medium coffee in a cup that stays hotter 3 times longer. Just sayin'...

[travel_dude]

12 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Whereas $1.00 currently gets you a far superior MacDonald's medium coffee in a cup that stays hotter 3 times longer. Just sayin'...

 

If you go to Duncan's in the US, they give you a styrofoam cup that stays hot for days.

Believe it or not, there isn't a Mickey D's close by.

And I have a habit of re-heating my coffee after it gets cold.

Never had any luck with McD. 

[cross16]

2 hours ago, tmac70 said:

I would still say its a player issue not a coaching or plan issue. 

 

Let me ask you this, Did you have an issue of the 3-1 lead after the 1st? If so I can pretty much assure you the game plan never changed coming from the coaches it was the mind shift of the players that create the down fall

 

When a team does something again and again, and it's the entire team, over the course of the season you should ask yourself if it's not being coached then why is it being allowed?

 

2 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Hanging on to Backlund for what reason? He's effectively been the one player in this prolonged, "we're almost good enough".  Who in their right mind is making a crazy offer for Backlund? He's a bottom 6, dime a dozen center.

 

 

the dime a dozen center who has as many 5 on 5 points as Connor McDavid since January 1st?

 

I can understand the frustration, i can understand the desire to move on from aging pending UFAs but if there is 1 player who should be exempt from criticism this year it's Backlund. Probably the only player that has pulled his weight, and more, since day 1. 

[tmac70]

1 minute ago, cross16 said:

 

When a team does something again and again, and it's the entire team, over the course of the season you should ask yourself if it's not being coached then why is it being allowed?

 

 

the dime a dozen center who has as many 5 on 5 points as Connor McDavid since January 1st?

 

I can understand the frustration, i can understand the desire to move on from aging pending UFAs but if there is 1 player who should be exempt from criticism this year it's Backlund. Probably the only player that has pulled his weight, and more, since day 1. 

Here's what's hard to comprehend you think that a Professional coaching staff is going to advocate to get a lead and then sit back and hope for a tie, laughable. Let me guess I bet everyone thinks Backs change last night was a message from the coaches as well. If you look close enough at your fancy stats you will see it isn't the whole team but a select few that are the issues. Sutter has his faults you want to fire him and think this club turns around so be it. 

[conundrumed]

23 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

When a team does something again and again, and it's the entire team, over the course of the season you should ask yourself if it's not being coached then why is it being allowed?

 

 

the dime a dozen center who has as many 5 on 5 points as Connor McDavid since January 1st?

 

I can understand the frustration, i can understand the desire to move on from aging pending UFAs but if there is 1 player who should be exempt from criticism this year it's Backlund. Probably the only player that has pulled his weight, and more, since day 1. 

Yup. Your making a McDavid comparison is pretty off. There is zero comparison in coverage. I'll re-iterate, Backlund is a dime-a-dozen. There is a world of middling centers that can put a puck in a goalies belly-button for an O faceoff and backcheck and defend effectively.

What would you guess his comparables are on other teams?

[conundrumed]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

If you go to Duncan's in the US, they give you a styrofoam cup that stays hot for days.

Believe it or not, there isn't a Mickey D's close by.

And I have a habit of re-heating my coffee after it gets cold.

Never had any luck with McD. 

What???

Ahhhh. I drink mine black, that's probably the difference. I know what they taste like with nothing added.

[cross16]

15 hours ago, tmac70 said:

Here's what's hard to comprehend you think that a Professional coaching staff is going to advocate to get a lead and then sit back and hope for a tie, laughable. Let me guess I bet everyone thinks Backs change last night was a message from the coaches as well. If you look close enough at your fancy stats you will see it isn't the whole team but a select few that are the issues. Sutter has his faults you want to fire him and think this club turns around so be it. 

this happens frequently in hockey. Heck it’s common in all sports. 
no of course the message wasn’t go out there and blow a lead. But protecting a lead by playing safer,more passive style of defending it really common. It just didn’t work. 

[medatswhoP]

16 hours ago, conundrumed said:

What???

Ahhhh. I drink mine black, that's probably the difference. I know what they taste like with nothing added.

Ill settle the coffee debate for you guys, both MCD and Timmies coffee suck, I too drink it black , the better coffee is Starbucks by a landslide , the only problem is you need to be a millionaire to have their habit.

Just some food for thought to keep it civil.  Lol...