Cowtownguy Posted June 23, 2015 Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 I have heard that Flames management is interested in Phil Kessel. I believe I read that on either Sportsnet or TSN. Regardless, I really hope that they are not talking to Toronto about him. Despite all of the talent he brings, it sounds as though he has a poor attitude and chokes at times. Further, I would assume that his price tag would be high. I really do not want to trade some of our great talent for veterans. We need to stay the course and be patient. Hopefully, it was just a bs rumour so that the sports media can pretend that they think and report about the Flames. ETA: Although I think we have all heard the rumours, here is the link. http://www.tsn.ca/who-s-on-the-block-tsn-s-trade-bait-board-1.314041 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted June 23, 2015 Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 For the right price, i would be interested in Kessel. PRO's - RHS RW - Top line material - PP Specialist - Game Breaking Talent CON's - High Cap Hit - Long Contract - Poor Defensive Abilities/One-Dimensional - Performs Poorly in Interviews It really depends on what it takes to get him and if the Leafs retain some salary. I think the off-ice negatives gets over blown by the Toronto media and he will have no problems in Calgary who tend to treat its star players very well. With the leadership group consisting of Giordano, Stajan, etc and the up and coming Monahan, Gaudreau, Bennett, etc, Kessel can take on a quiet/secondary role. If he can be had for about $6-mil-per (Leafs retain $2-mil-per), then i think it's a fair cap hit for an explosive offensive piece and one i don't mind locking Kessel up for 5-years for that money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carty Posted June 23, 2015 Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlbertaBoy12 Posted June 24, 2015 Report Share Posted June 24, 2015 It really depends on what it takes to get him and if the Leafs retain some salary. I think the off-ice negatives gets over blown by the Toronto media and he will have no problems in Calgary who tend to treat its star players very well. With the leadership group consisting of Giordano, Stajan, etc and the up and coming Monahan, Gaudreau, Bennett, etc, Kessel can take on a quiet/secondary role. If he can be had for about $6-mil-per (Leafs retain $2-mil-per), then i think it's a fair cap hit for an explosive offensive piece and one i don't mind locking Kessel up for 5-years for that money. I think this about sums it up, also I dont think you are ever going to expect offensive talent to be a pk specialist I think coaching has some effect on how players play in the D zone. Would I give up our 1st round pick this year, probably not but maybe a 2016 first rounder + morgan klimchuk and go from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyerfan52 Posted June 24, 2015 Report Share Posted June 24, 2015 Don't we have another thread about this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted June 24, 2015 Report Share Posted June 24, 2015 I think this about sums it up, also I dont think you are ever going to expect offensive talent to be a pk specialist I think coaching has some effect on how players play in the D zone. Would I give up our 1st round pick this year, probably not but maybe a 2016 first rounder + morgan klimchuk and go from there. I don't know what would get the deal done. The Leafs have publically stated they would be interested to move the 4th overall pick as well so maybe there could be a massive combo deal to be made. Kessel and Phaneuf are getting exterminated by the Toronto media with all of them saying these two must be traded in order to cleanse the locker room of bad culture and move forward with a clean slate. In terms of Flames assets, Jiri Hudler was the 8th overall points man last season on a great $4-mil-per contract so there's definitely value there. He outscored so many big names in the league that you can't even begin to name them all. If anything, now is the time to sell high on Hudler because at 31-years, Hudler will unlikely reach Top 10 scoring again moving forward. On the other hand, Phil Kessel is only 27 and last season's 61-points was one of his worst seasons ever on a very bad Leafs team too. Talk about buying low on Kessel at the perfect opportunity. And then you've got Toronto's management change, coaching change, culture change, etc. It makes sense they want to trade Kessel as addition by subtraction. This might be the only window the Flames have to trade Hudler for Kessel, which obviously won't be enough alone. Maybe it has to be Hudler + 15th overall (depending on who's left on the board) for Kessel. If Barzal, Meier, or Conner are still on the board at 15, then i think we just use the pick. I'm kind of adamant that we get Kessel at no more than $6-mil-per so perhaps the Flames throw in one of their second round picks for the Leafs to retain $2-mil-per to give the Flames some cap security/insurance in the future. The Flames will still be left with two second round picks in a deep draft which is decent. So looks like, To FLAMES, Phil Kessel (at $6-mil-per for 7-years) To LEAFS Jiri Hudler 2015 1st round 2015 2nd round ($2-mil-per retained for 7-years) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarkRaving Posted June 24, 2015 Report Share Posted June 24, 2015 Don't we have another thread about this? That'd make it two threads too many. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlbertaBoy12 Posted June 24, 2015 Report Share Posted June 24, 2015 To FLAMES, Phil Kessel (at $6-mil-per for 7-years) To LEAFS Jiri Hudler 2015 1st round 2015 2nd round ($2-mil-per retained for 7-years) I would actually be ok with phil kessel at 6 mil per, no reason to pass up on that at all. But like I said I would rather see a 2016 1st round pick go the other way, Toronto is starting a rebuild and a pick next year probably wont make much difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted June 24, 2015 Report Share Posted June 24, 2015 I would actually be ok with phil kessel at 6 mil per, no reason to pass up on that at all. But like I said I would rather see a 2016 1st round pick go the other way, Toronto is starting a rebuild and a pick next year probably wont make much difference. I wouldn't trade our 2016 pick. We don't know where we will pick and how deep the draft will be next season. We could very well be a lottery team because the Kings, Stars, Avs, and Sharks all can have a strong bounce back season. At 15th, and knowing who is left on the board, i would be comfortable making the deal especially if a player the Leafs want is still there. From the Flames perspective, the Flames get a Top line RHS RW who is only entering his prime at 27 and can still elevate his game further. The Flames will have Kessel for the prime of his career at a very fair price. With Giordano's new contract, Kessel would not be the highest paid player and by the second half of Kessel's contract, he shouldn't be the highest paid forward given the progression of Monahan, Gaudreau, and Bennett. The pressure of being the highest paid forward wouldn't put a dark cloud over his head and it would allow him to play hockey and play his game quietly in a secondary role. For the Leafs, the $2-mil-per retention basically means they pay Hudler $6-mil-per for a year. As long as Hudler can continue to produce offensively, that's a fair price for Hudler. In doing so, they gain a 1st+2nd round pick during the early stages of a full rebuild. Hudler is sans NTC/NMC so he is tradable for more picks later if he doesn't pan out in Toronto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davis1891 Posted June 24, 2015 Report Share Posted June 24, 2015 Can we even afford him, cap wise, at 6 mil? Gio's apparently asking for 9 million (although unlikely that's what he ends up getting), Mony and Johnny needs raises shortly. Not to mention our deficincies at D. I miss cap geek for this, but if it pushes us too close to the cap, I'd pass for that reason alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlbertaBoy12 Posted June 24, 2015 Report Share Posted June 24, 2015 We shouldnt have a problem with these bigger contracts once engelland, smid, jones, raymond etc come off the books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted June 24, 2015 Report Share Posted June 24, 2015 Can we even afford him, cap wise, at 6 mil? Gio's apparently asking for 9 million (although unlikely that's what he ends up getting), Mony and Johnny needs raises shortly. Not to mention our deficincies at D. I miss cap geek for this, but if it pushes us too close to the cap, I'd pass for that reason alone. In the short term, like 2 to 3 years, yes, we can afford Kessel at $6-mil-per. After that, if all goes well with Gaudreau, Monahan, and Bennett, then Kessel may become a victim of the salary cap. But hopefully we have a Cup or two by then. This would be our core: Gaudreau - Monahan - RW LW - Bennett - Kessel What's great with this is we can top load one line or have two balanced scoring lines. Keep Bouma - Backlund - Jones together. The missing RW and LW in the Top 6 will come down to Poirier, Ferland, Klimchuk, and/or UFA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cccsberg Posted June 24, 2015 Report Share Posted June 24, 2015 First somewhat reasonable proposal I've heard for Kessel and Hudler. Wessel would obviously have to amend his NTC list of teams and others agree. Although I believe its a bit early to be adding key vets, Kessel is only 27 and has been pretty consistent so think we'd get a good 3-4 years out of him, at the least. That would correspond with a high point in our rebuild when current pieces should be in their prime and still likely Gio would be strong. Might work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyerfan52 Posted June 25, 2015 Report Share Posted June 25, 2015 I don't know what would get the deal done. The Leafs have publically stated they would be interested to move the 4th overall pick as well so maybe there could be a massive combo deal to be made. Kessel and Phaneuf are getting exterminated by the Toronto media with all of them saying these two must be traded in order to cleanse the locker room of bad culture and move forward with a clean slate. In terms of Flames assets, Jiri Hudler was the 8th overall points man last season on a great $4-mil-per contract so there's definitely value there. He outscored so many big names in the league that you can't even begin to name them all. If anything, now is the time to sell high on Hudler because at 31-years, Hudler will unlikely reach Top 10 scoring again moving forward. On the other hand, Phil Kessel is only 27 and last season's 61-points was one of his worst seasons ever on a very bad Leafs team too. Talk about buying low on Kessel at the perfect opportunity. And then you've got Toronto's management change, coaching change, culture change, etc. It makes sense they want to trade Kessel as addition by subtraction. This might be the only window the Flames have to trade Hudler for Kessel, which obviously won't be enough alone. Maybe it has to be Hudler + 15th overall (depending on who's left on the board) for Kessel. If Barzal, Meier, or Conner are still on the board at 15, then i think we just use the pick. I'm kind of adamant that we get Kessel at no more than $6-mil-per so perhaps the Flames throw in one of their second round picks for the Leafs to retain $2-mil-per to give the Flames some cap security/insurance in the future. The Flames will still be left with two second round picks in a deep draft which is decent. So looks like, To FLAMES, Phil Kessel (at $6-mil-per for 7-years) To LEAFS Jiri Hudler 2015 1st round 2015 2nd round ($2-mil-per retained for 7-years) Kessel will be 28 when the season starts & still carries that contract for all 7 years. Wait until TML see the lack of interest & buy lower. Since they seem to want to dump contracts & build through the draft they'll need BS to get them to the cap & picks/prospects to build on. I'd go as high as To Calgary: Kessel with 25% retained = that 6 x 7 To Toronto: Raymond (3.125 x 3) Engelland (2.917 x 2) Smid (3.5 x 3 or LTIR depending) (above 3 to help them stay above the floor if they find a sucker to take Phaneuf. Salaries come off the grid about the time thier good RFAs will need raises) 2 picks in the 2nd 2015 A 2nd in 2016 ****************************** If they find a sucker willing to pay more for a floating winger they're all the way. ********************************************************** ********************************************************** I don't really want Floating Phil to corrupt our ethic but @ that price we shed a few useless contracts & hopefully flip the useless #1 star of the Laughs for a top or pending 4 D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob1974 Posted June 25, 2015 Report Share Posted June 25, 2015 Anyone who wants to win the cup shouldn't really want Kessel. Your hockey IQ should be in question. Would you give up Gaudreau for Kessel? Because that's what it's going to take. I don't think Toronto wants just picks and has beens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlbertaBoy12 Posted June 25, 2015 Report Share Posted June 25, 2015 Kessel is the better player then lots of people are giving him credit for, I don't see where anyone is suggesting getting kessel for gaudreau. Also all the talk out of Toronto and in the news is that they are shopping for picks and futures. I can almost guarantee no team is giving up a player like gaudreau ( 60 points+) and cheap hit for kessel that doesn't make sense. The Hudler deal that was suggested above makes most sense and who knows what would happen in a new environment look at seguin and his supposed attitude problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob1974 Posted June 25, 2015 Report Share Posted June 25, 2015 The reason Hudler doesn't make sense is that he's only a 3 year guy for TO. Why would they only want a player for a few years when they want someone longer term? You said it yourself that they want futures and picks. That's not Hudler. I know people aren't suggesting Gaudreau, but Gaudreau is a future-yet now player. Hudler doesn't have a very long future in comparison. I don't think that Seguin and Kessel are comparable. Something that Seguin never got was that he didn't work. All he had was a party reputation, much like Patrick Kane. I don't see that in Kessel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted June 25, 2015 Report Share Posted June 25, 2015 If Brett Hull can change his game and play defense to win a Cup, then anybody can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pikey7883 Posted June 25, 2015 Report Share Posted June 25, 2015 "Yesterday it was said that they are looking to take back some salary in a trade for Kessel as long as there is less term. And I wondered if a trade like Jones, our 1st (15th), our 2nd (45th) would get Dubas' attention for Kessel and their 1st (4th). They are looking to shed salary for the future, this gives them cap relief, as well as a RW who can still play and they get two picks this year. Obviously I don't have to point out the plus' from our perspective. At four we have a choice of another big centre (strome), a unheralded d man (Hannifin), or maybe a beast (provorov). To make it work, we could probably add Poirier instead of the second? What are your thoughts?" This was the post I put in the 15/16 roster page on June 23. After reading some of the comments on here and in the media, why not go in with the best offer, and make Toronto make a move? To Calgary: Kessel (full salary) 4th overall To Toronto: Jones Poirier Wotherspoon 15th overall 45th overall And I know it's a bad salary contact coming back, and I know it's a lot to give up. But Kessell most likely puts up 70-90 points playing on either of the two top lines of Johnny & Money, or Bennett & Backlund. And that 4th pick will be great, I would publicly make that offer and make them say no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted June 25, 2015 Report Share Posted June 25, 2015 I would publicly make that offer and make them say no. Make that offer and make them say 'no'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyerfan52 Posted June 25, 2015 Report Share Posted June 25, 2015 "Yesterday it was said that they are looking to take back some salary in a trade for Kessel as long as there is less term. And I wondered if a trade like Jones, our 1st (15th), our 2nd (45th) would get Dubas' attention for Kessel and their 1st (4th). They are looking to shed salary for the future, this gives them cap relief, as well as a RW who can still play and they get two picks this year. Obviously I don't have to point out the plus' from our perspective. At four we have a choice of another big centre (strome), a unheralded d man (Hannifin), or maybe a beast (provorov). To make it work, we could probably add Poirier instead of the second? What are your thoughts?" This was the post I put in the 15/16 roster page on June 23. After reading some of the comments on here and in the media, why not go in with the best offer, and make Toronto make a move? To Calgary: Kessel (full salary) 4th overall To Toronto: Jones Poirier Wotherspoon 15th overall 45th overall And I know it's a bad salary contact coming back, and I know it's a lot to give up. But Kessell most likely puts up 70-90 points playing on either of the two top lines of Johnny & Money, or Bennett & Backlund. And that 4th pick will be great, I would publicly make that offer and make them say no. I'd do that in a heartbeat as that #4 pick is what I want. But, short term Jones & a few decent prospects & 2 picks won't get their attention. I'd trade all of that for the 4th. Let them trade "Phil the Thrill " for more adds. If they want to keep Kessel just drop him but if they want out of that contract we get #4, retain 2 for life (7) of that contract & flip that cherry picker for a 2nd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zima Posted June 25, 2015 Report Share Posted June 25, 2015 There is as much of a chance of Montreal going for poirier and jones and our 15 for Subban as toronto going for that deal. Not going to happen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carty Posted July 1, 2015 Report Share Posted July 1, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocketdoctor Posted July 1, 2015 Report Share Posted July 1, 2015 So glad we dodged that bullet. He will fit in well with crybaby Crosby perhaps they can share dummies (pacifiers for the colonials ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob1974 Posted July 2, 2015 Report Share Posted July 2, 2015 Roberts was signed on by the Pens as a fitness guy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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