DirtyDeeds Posted March 7, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2015 Instead of derailing that other thread on this subject I quoted and replied here... I think it goes both ways. As much as i should suggest tanking less, we don't need 5 guys jumping on my posts every time i suggest it. Just let it go. It's not even that serious. I was replying to jjgallow so if anything, let jj reply. My post wasn't addressing everyone.When it comes to the value of tanking issue the community is not divided. In fact it is almost unanimous... of the 56 people who felt it important enough and took the time to vote, only 2 found it acceptable to answer " yes " tanking is okay for a higher draft pick. You weren't one of those two... That works out to a mind boggling 3.57% who feel strongly enough that they would vote and be okay with tanking for a higher draft pick... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted March 7, 2015 Report Share Posted March 7, 2015 I have repeated many times in this thread that I do NOT think it's okay to lose for a higher pick. It's unethical. It's immoral. It's dishonorable. I'm happy the league is changing the draft lottery system to stop these teams from cheating the system by intentionally tanking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDeeds Posted November 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 It is getting to the time to open up this thread again for Peoples. Here is the Draft Simulator for next years draft with our current placement and odds: 2016 Draft Simulator My first spin results: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 It is getting to the time to open up this thread again for Peoples. Here is the Draft Simulator for next years draft with our current placement and odds: 2016 Draft Simulator My first spin results: I should've cheered for wins last season just like I am doing this season. The results have been remarkable. Kidding of course, but jokes aside, just look at those odds. The incentive to tank is basically gone (unlike last season). You're not guaranteed the Top 2 picks and the difference between the 3rd to 10th spots aren't that significant. Might as well just win to the very last game. That said, it's too early for this thread. The traditional cut-off date is US Thanksgiving when it comes to the playoffs. I'm willing to give this team until the first week of December to turn it around. After that, boy, it's time to look ahead to next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jessemadnote39 Posted November 18, 2015 Report Share Posted November 18, 2015 The Flames need the same winning percentage they accomplished after the end of the 8 game losing streak last season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_jones Posted November 18, 2015 Report Share Posted November 18, 2015 The Flames need the same winning percentage they accomplished after the end of the 8 game losing streak last season. Need more then that. They need to go 10-3-2 in the next 15 GP just to get to where they were after that 8 game skid last December (17-15-3) and THEN they need the same winning percentage.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darth_henning Posted November 18, 2015 Report Share Posted November 18, 2015 Amazingly we're only 5 points out of the playoffs right now, and have more ROW than both Vancouver and Anaheim so far. Despite a horrendous start, we're saved by the fact that pretty much everyone else in our division sucks this year. We can still climb out of the hole. But Wild Card spots are off the table this year. Its very likely that the WC cutoff will be higher than two of the pacific team totals that make it in. (Already is and is likely only to exacerbate). We have to make a pacific spot. And we can do that, but we have to start winning. We're 0.500 hockey our last 10 games, which is improvement. It also matches Arizona and SJS, and is better than VAN. Only slightly worse than Anaheim. So we aren't losing ground, but we need to start making up ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cccsberg Posted November 18, 2015 Report Share Posted November 18, 2015 Amazingly we're only 5 points out of the playoffs right now, and have more ROW than both Vancouver and Anaheim so far. Despite a horrendous start, we're saved by the fact that pretty much everyone else in our division sucks this year. We can still climb out of the hole. But Wild Card spots are off the table this year. Its very likely that the WC cutoff will be higher than two of the pacific team totals that make it in. (Already is and is likely only to exacerbate). We have to make a pacific spot. And we can do that, but we have to start winning. We're 0.500 hockey our last 10 games, which is improvement. It also matches Arizona and SJS, and is better than VAN. Only slightly worse than Anaheim. So we aren't losing ground, but we need to start making up ground. Agree that the Pacific is terrible and likely our path to the playoffs, but don't look now, we're only 4 points out of a wildcard spot currently held by Arizona! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted November 18, 2015 Report Share Posted November 18, 2015 Amazingly we're only 5 points out of the playoffs right now, and have more ROW than both Vancouver and Anaheim so far. Despite a horrendous start, we're saved by the fact that pretty much everyone else in our division sucks this year. We can still climb out of the hole. But Wild Card spots are off the table this year. Its very likely that the WC cutoff will be higher than two of the pacific team totals that make it in. (Already is and is likely only to exacerbate). We have to make a pacific spot. And we can do that, but we have to start winning. We're 0.500 hockey our last 10 games, which is improvement. It also matches Arizona and SJS, and is better than VAN. Only slightly worse than Anaheim. So we aren't losing ground, but we need to start making up ground. We're likely to see things even out as the schedule gets deeper, trades occur, player come and go off injury and teams play more against their division rivals. I don't see any scenario that Calgary is in a lottery position at the end of the season, though. If we happen to be out of the playoff mix come TDL, trades will happen and we will likely get back a prospect that helps. Or the farm kids replace players moved out. Calgary doesn't have the front office that would accept anything close to a tank job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted November 18, 2015 Report Share Posted November 18, 2015 The Flames clearly don't have a bad roster, certainly not one that is a bottom 3 in the league. I don't see any scenario (baring massive injuries) where the Flames finish in the bottom 3. In terms of the topic, I maintain I'd like to see a non-weighted lottery for all teams that missed the playoffs. So the top 14 picks should be non-weighted. That way, there is absolutely no incentives to even consider tanking. All teams that missed the playoffs have an opportunity to drastically improve through the draft. Top prospects have an opportunity to join teams who barely missed the playoffs rather than join teams who are very bad. Teams that are very bad cannot rely on the draft alone to improve. They have to sign good UFAs, build a good winning culture, build a good coaching staff, and improve their team the right way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted November 18, 2015 Report Share Posted November 18, 2015 The Flames clearly don't have a bad roster, certainly not one that is a bottom 3 in the league. I don't see any scenario (baring massive injuries) where the Flames finish in the bottom 3. In terms of the topic, I maintain I'd like to see a non-weighted lottery for all teams that missed the playoffs. So the top 14 picks should be non-weighted. That way, there is absolutely no incentives to even consider tanking. All teams that missed the playoffs have an opportunity to drastically improve through the draft. Top prospects have an opportunity to join teams who barely missed the playoffs rather than join teams who are very bad. Teams that are very bad cannot rely on the draft alone to improve. They have to sign good UFAs, build a good winning culture, build a good coaching staff, and improve their team the right way. That should be referred to as the Oilers Principle. With each top prospect playing their draft year in the NHL, they have failed to improve. Every year when they are statistically out of the playoffs, they make move to stay that way; trading players that helped their team, but can also bring back more draft picks. Buffalo made moves to improve their base, but at the same time traded a goalie that was capable of winning games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darth_henning Posted November 18, 2015 Report Share Posted November 18, 2015 Agree that the Pacific is terrible and likely our path to the playoffs, but don't look now, we're only 4 points out of a wildcard spot currently held by Arizona! Um. Arizona is 2 points back of Chicago for the 2nd wild card. Who is 1 point ahead of both SJS and Van. Central is claiming both wild cards again this year. We're likely to see things even out as the schedule gets deeper, trades occur, player come and go off injury and teams play more against their division rivals. I don't see any scenario that Calgary is in a lottery position at the end of the season, though. If we happen to be out of the playoff mix come TDL, trades will happen and we will likely get back a prospect that helps. Or the farm kids replace players moved out. Calgary doesn't have the front office that would accept anything close to a tank job. It will probably even out a bit, We've had almost no games against our division yet. And that's where we can start to make up ground quickly. I look forward to seeing those. There's no way we're bad enough to be lottery. We'll be bubble at worst. Whether we are in the playoffs or not, we should be active at TDL. We have some potential trade bait that might bring good returns if they reach their potential (Jones, Russell, Wideman, Hiller, etc) and may accelerate the rebuild. The Flames clearly don't have a bad roster, certainly not one that is a bottom 3 in the league. I don't see any scenario (baring massive injuries) where the Flames finish in the bottom 3. In terms of the topic, I maintain I'd like to see a non-weighted lottery for all teams that missed the playoffs. So the top 14 picks should be non-weighted. That way, there is absolutely no incentives to even consider tanking. All teams that missed the playoffs have an opportunity to drastically improve through the draft. Top prospects have an opportunity to join teams who barely missed the playoffs rather than join teams who are very bad. Teams that are very bad cannot rely on the draft alone to improve. They have to sign good UFAs, build a good winning culture, build a good coaching staff, and improve their team the right way. I'm all for the non-weighted lottery would make things way more interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted November 18, 2015 Report Share Posted November 18, 2015 Um. Arizona is 2 points back of Chicago for the 2nd wild card. Who is 1 point ahead of both SJS and Van. Central is claiming both wild cards again this year. It will probably even out a bit, We've had almost no games against our division yet. And that's where we can start to make up ground quickly. I look forward to seeing those. There's no way we're bad enough to be lottery. We'll be bubble at worst. Whether we are in the playoffs or not, we should be active at TDL. We have some potential trade bait that might bring good returns if they reach their potential (Jones, Russell, Wideman, Hiller, etc) and may accelerate the rebuild. I'm all for the non-weighted lottery would make things way more interesting. If we could re-sign Jones for a cheap salary, I may be on board with that. $2m for a player like him is fine. When healthy, he brings his game every night. Put in the right situation, he can be a 20 goal player. If we get a good offer for him (prospect), I would make the deal, though. Players like him don't get the big pay-day anymore in the summer UFA period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darth_henning Posted November 18, 2015 Report Share Posted November 18, 2015 It would depend what he wants for salary and term. If he signs for 2mil or less for two years, I'm in. Bouma - Backlund - Jones we've already seen is a good third line that can shutdown and score. But he is in his 30s now, so if we could get a good prospect for top 6 LW or any D position, I'd take it instantly. I think Jones is replaceable by Poirier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da4RealDeal Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 I got Calgary Phi, Ana....not a wish of mine to tank, I hate the idea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jessemadnote39 Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 The Flames clearly don't have a bad roster, certainly not one that is a bottom 3 in the league. I don't see any scenario (baring massive injuries) where the Flames finish in the bottom 3. In terms of the topic, I maintain I'd like to see a non-weighted lottery for all teams that missed the playoffs. So the top 14 picks should be non-weighted. That way, there is absolutely no incentives to even consider tanking. All teams that missed the playoffs have an opportunity to drastically improve through the draft. Top prospects have an opportunity to join teams who barely missed the playoffs rather than join teams who are very bad. Teams that are very bad cannot rely on the draft alone to improve. They have to sign good UFAs, build a good winning culture, build a good coaching staff, and improve their team the right way. That's a good idea. Another one I heard is that whoever has the most points after being mathematically eliminated gets the 1st overall pick. That way say Columbus is eliminated in February they have an extra two months to pick up points and their fans have something to cheer for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 That's a good idea. Another one I heard is that whoever has the most points after being mathematically eliminated gets the 1st overall pick. That way say Columbus is eliminated in February they have an extra two months to pick up points and their fans have something to cheer for. Yup I've heard this one too and I like it. That said, teams are sure to end with the same number of points/win after being eliminated from the playoffs so I wonder what the tie breaker system will be for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cccsberg Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 The Flames clearly don't have a bad roster, certainly not one that is a bottom 3 in the league. I don't see any scenario (baring massive injuries) where the Flames finish in the bottom 3. In terms of the topic, I maintain I'd like to see a non-weighted lottery for all teams that missed the playoffs. So the top 14 picks should be non-weighted. That way, there is absolutely no incentives to even consider tanking. All teams that missed the playoffs have an opportunity to drastically improve through the draft. Top prospects have an opportunity to join teams who barely missed the playoffs rather than join teams who are very bad. Teams that are very bad cannot rely on the draft alone to improve. They have to sign good UFAs, build a good winning culture, build a good coaching staff, and improve their team the right way. I like the sentiment of removing the incentive to tank, but think that may be a bit steep. I think I'd rather see the weighted draft but after you win the draft lottery you are excluded from winning again for a period of five years. Or alternatively, how about a fixed, rotating draft schedule that goes through all teams over a 30 year period, giving everyone a shot. Each year you advance one slot till #1, then back to 30th the next year.... The only thing that could change the drafting position is trades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob1974 Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 Yup I've heard this one too and I like it. That said, teams are sure to end with the same number of points/win after being eliminated from the playoffs so I wonder what the tie breaker system will be for that. Head to head match-ups. Or have an alternative losers tournament for all teams out of the playoffs. haha. The team that wins the tournament wins 1st overall. Although, teams that are hovering around and just miss will most likely win it. They could always have the tournament for the bottom 8 teams that are out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carty Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 They could always have the tournament for the bottom 8 teams that are out. Then there would be a tank battle to get into the bottom 8... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlbertaBoy12 Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 Head to head match-ups. Or have an alternative losers tournament for all teams out of the playoffs. haha. The team that wins the tournament wins 1st overall. Although, teams that are hovering around and just miss will most likely win it. They could always have the tournament for the bottom 8 teams that are out. This could be an interestesting idea even if it only was a one loss and out kinda tournament. The problem would be when they do it to not take away from the stanley cup finals, and that the teams who just miss the playoffs would probably win it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob1974 Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 They could do it in the first round of the playoffs. During off days. Not that they have any... If they did it for the bottom four teams, they would play 2 games... Unless they made the last two teams a 3 game series. Or with an 8 team tournament, I think they'd only need to have 3 game days. Which would be best served at the end of the year . The fans who don't have teams in the playoffs have something to cheer for, owners get some extra "playoff" revenue... 7 games in total, or the final teams can have a 3 game playoff for first overall. This could be an interestesting idea even if it only was a one loss and out kinda tournament. The problem would be when they do it to not take away from the stanley cup finals, and that the teams who just miss the playoffs would probably win it. I was thinking, they could do only the bottom 8, or have a 6 team round robin, which the four top teams play off afterward. It can be played out during the 1st round of the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xstrike Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 No. 1. Destroys the entire culture we spent two-three years building. One which helped us defy the odds and not only make the playoff, but go to the 2nd round. 2. Makes us like the Oilers. Again, I think the mental aspect is so important here. Edmonton doesn't know how to win. They don't know what to do when the chips are stacked against them because losing was acceptable for so long. I think preserving our culture and mental fortitude is worth drafting lower. 2. I don't ever want to have to be embarrassed by seeing a Flames "fan" cheering when we get scored on/lose, as happened with Buffalo "fans" vs the Coyotes. I am ok with trading some expendable players or UFAs IF we have players ready or nearly ready to replace them (UFA's are trickier b/c they'll likely be gone anyway) AND we don't do it with the express intent to lose; rather, to develop players and prepare for the next season. Let the draft chips fall where they will. We got Mony with #6 and Bennett with #4. Bennett was ranked #1 by NA Scouting. How many teams would take Mony #2-#3 if there was a redraft now? Jones went #4 to Nashville as well. You can still get good player even if not #1 or #2 in the draft order. ('Sides don't the new rules make it (or are supposed to make it) harder to tank? If I remember right, #1-#3 are lottery picks. Even finishing #5-#6, we still have a decent chance for a higher pick.) Btw, there's a really cool thing I just found (http://nhllotterysimulator.com/#/). A lotto simulator. I tried it. I got us drafting first on the first test. Yahoo! (I'm trying to be better about image posting Deeds. Sorry if this flops too.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlbertaBoy12 Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 They could do it in the first round of the playoffs. During off days. Not that they have any... If they did it for the bottom four teams, they would play 2 games... Unless they made the last two teams a 3 game series. Or with an 8 team tournament, I think they'd only need to have 3 game days. Which would be best served at the end of the year . The fans who don't have teams in the playoffs have something to cheer for, owners get some extra "playoff" revenue... 7 games in total, or the final teams can have a 3 game playoff for first overall. I was thinking, they could do only the bottom 8, or have a 6 team round robin, which the four top teams play off afterward. It can be played out during the 1st round of the playoffs. I could get on board with this idea but like I said I still think would it would have one loss and your done kinda tournament. Otherwise it might be too difficult to organize and distinguish between the playoffs for the casual viewer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 Playing in a loser's bracket tournament in order to win a future teammate? Really guys? Fans would love it, obviously. Just don't expect players to play hard, for some kid to come in and take their job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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