Lucid_Flame91 Posted March 30, 2014 Report Share Posted March 30, 2014 Anything that helps us draft 4th overall i'm cheering for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted March 31, 2014 Report Share Posted March 31, 2014 I was so worried the Flames would win past the Senators in the standings. It still might happen but what a critical loss the Flames picked up against the Sens to stay on pace for 5th overall. The Islanders have a game in hand too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob1974 Posted March 31, 2014 Report Share Posted March 31, 2014 I was so worried the Flames would win past the Senators in the standings. It still might happen but what a critical loss the Flames picked up against the Sens to stay on pace for 5th overall. The Islanders have a game in hand too. Yup, if the Isles win that game they leap frog. Of course there's a whole (rest of the) season left to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob1974 Posted March 31, 2014 Report Share Posted March 31, 2014 Very true. An in demand UFA that sees a team low in the standings but busting their humps might see himself as the difference maker that can add to that effort & make them better & secure a SC during his playing career while being on a complacent team that throws in the towel early in hope of a higher pick would leave him a lonely voice in the wilderness yelling that they can win. If you go into a game not caring you've lost if the other team has an iota of compete. If fans & management droll over high picks it becomes easy to justify losses as "taking 1 for the team" because surely all those high picks will become great someday. I'm sure those advocating lossing have good intentions but there is a saying about the road to a certain undesirable location being paved with good intentions. That's exactly why Cammalleri was traded out of Montreal. He called the Habs players out on their work ethic and they traded him for calling them out. He likes Calgary and he had some buds here, but still. We got rid of dead weight in Bourque who has great skill but no heart. Maybe Cammalleri will stay in Calgary because half or 75% of the battle is getting a team to compete. The rest is skill. We have average - decent skill but above average - elite heart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kulstad Posted March 31, 2014 Report Share Posted March 31, 2014 I was so worried the Flames would win past the Senators in the standings. It still might happen but what a critical loss the Flames picked up against the Sens to stay on pace for 5th overall. The Islanders have a game in hand too. You seriously need to work on your wording, Peeps. What you've written almost sounds like you're suggesting the Flames lost to OTT on purpose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted March 31, 2014 Report Share Posted March 31, 2014 You seriously need to work on your wording, Peeps. What you've written almost sounds like you're suggesting the Flames lost to OTT on purpose. How'm I gonna get a scar like that eating pineapple? Of course the intention was to win. Monahan scored his 20th. The game was competitive up until it was 5-3. The Flames played their hearts out. It was a loss that everyone can be happy about. Lots of positives to build on for next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyerfan52 Posted March 31, 2014 Report Share Posted March 31, 2014 Of course the intention was to win. Monahan scored his 20th. The game was competitive up until it was 5-3. The Flames played their hearts out. It was a loss that everyone can be happy about. Unlike you I'm never happy after a loss. I respect the effort but really don't feel like doing cartwheels. I'd be happier seeing that hard work rewarded with a win. I go into every game hoping the Flames win (except when they play my Flyers but even there I hope for a Flyer win in OT so Calgary gets a point). I've given up much in my life but integrity wasn't 1 of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucid_Flame91 Posted March 31, 2014 Report Share Posted March 31, 2014 Unlike you I'm never happy after a loss. I respect the effort but really don't feel like doing cartwheels. I'd be happier seeing that hard work rewarded with a win. I go into every game hoping the Flames win (except when they play my Flyers but even there I hope for a Flyer win in OT so Calgary gets a point). I've given up much in my life but integrity wasn't 1 of them. #shotsfired Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyerfan52 Posted April 1, 2014 Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 #shotsfired It's a dialog. Others state their opinion & the rest of us respond with our own thoughts. Don't misinterpret. If you need clarification of anyone's points just quote the part you don't understand & I'm sure any of us will be able to further explain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucid_Flame91 Posted April 1, 2014 Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 It's a dialog. Others state their opinion & the rest of us respond with our own thoughts. Don't misinterpret. If you need clarification of anyone's points just quote the part you don't understand & I'm sure any of us will be able to further explain. I guess being happy with a loss, when our team worked their butts off, costs your integrity. I've given up much in my life but integrity wasn't 1 of them. #shotsfired Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyerfan52 Posted April 1, 2014 Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 I guess being happy with a loss, when our team worked their butts off, costs your integrity. Simply put it means my personal ethics do not allow me to celebrate a loss by a team I cheer for. If you accept going against your personal beliefs for something that doesn't have a direct effect on your daily life it doesn't speak highly of choices you'd make about something that does. I could give you examples but am loathe to believe you can't envision them yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucid_Flame91 Posted April 1, 2014 Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 Simply put it means my personal ethics do not allow me to celebrate a loss by a team I cheer for. If you accept going against your personal beliefs for something that doesn't have a direct effect on your daily life it doesn't speak highly of choices you'd make about something that does. I could give you examples but am loathe to believe you can't envision them yourself. please do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redfire11 Posted April 1, 2014 Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 As I have said before I am cheering my flames to win but I am also cheering wins for NYI, Carolina, and Florida. No integrity loss there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kehatch Posted April 1, 2014 Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 As I have said before I am cheering my flames to win but I am also cheering wins for NYI, Carolina, and Florida. No integrity loss there. As long as Edmonton isn't in that list!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted April 1, 2014 Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 Unlike you I'm never happy after a loss. I respect the effort but really don't feel like doing cartwheels. I'd be happier seeing that hard work rewarded with a win. I go into every game hoping the Flames win (except when they play my Flyers but even there I hope for a Flyer win in OT so Calgary gets a point). I've given up much in my life but integrity wasn't 1 of them. The playoffs are officially and mathematically done. The season is over. The rest of the games are tryouts and pre-season for next year. Winning 2-points doesn't even matter anymore BUT on the other hand, losing does matter in a way that helps the Flames draft fortunes. It's ugly but it is what it is. Losing is in a twisted way, winning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDeeds Posted April 1, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 The playoffs are officially and mathematically done. The season is over. The rest of the games are tryouts and pre-season for next year. Winning 2-points doesn't even matter anymore BUT on the other hand, losing does matter in a way that helps the Flames draft fortunes. It's ugly but it is what it is. Losing is in a twisted way, winning. Bunch of BS Peoples. You going to tell your kids that it is good to lose?? just because they won't make the playoffs.. This the message you want the next generation of hockey players to believe? Well son, we only play part of the season because as soon as we realize that we can't make it to the playoffs, we may as well tank our remaining games as it then become a race to see who loses the most??? What type of players are you going to get who grew up with that distorted thinking? Why do you think the Flames go through so much effort to find players with "Character"??? Because they don't want players who give up. They want players who hate to lose and those who don't feel losing is okay for any reason. I might even start to believe your thinking People if there was some guarantee the top pick you so covet by tanking was guaranteed to be "all that"..... but there is no guarantee they will turn out and the odds of getting the top pick are a lotto anyway, not even 50-50.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DKim Posted April 1, 2014 Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 I want us to be the team that made it 9 straight losses for the Leafs(leaves?). To heck with draft order tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted April 1, 2014 Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 Bunch of BS Peoples. You going to tell your kids that it is good to lose?? just because they won't make the playoffs.. This the message you want the next generation of hockey players to believe? Well son, we only play part of the season because as soon as we realize that we can't make it to the playoffs, we may as well tank our remaining games as it then become a race to see who loses the most??? What type of players are you going to get who grew up with that distorted thinking? Why do you think the Flames go through so much effort to find players with "Character"??? Because they don't want players who give up. They want players who hate to lose and those who don't feel losing is okay for any reason. I might even start to believe your thinking People if there was some guarantee the top pick you so covet by tanking was guaranteed to be "all that"..... but there is no guarantee they will turn out and the odds of getting the top pick are a lotto anyway, not even 50-50.... It's not that extreme DD. I simply want either Reinhart, Bennett, or Ekblad over whoever we pick 5th, 6th, or 7th. Draisaitl shows a lot of potential too. Those are four kids who may not be available at 5th or 6th. The season is over and the Flames are mathematically elimated from the playoffs. Wins at this point in the season are not as important as moving into the future with one of those four kids. I know you are going to say there's no gaurantees but that's like telling your son, "there's no gaurantees of getting a good job after you go through tough times in university so you might as well party it up while you're young and skip school." Thats like that's like that's like that's like... we can go on back and forth forever. At the end of the day, it's worth it to lose games at this point in the season in order to gain a draft advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDeeds Posted April 1, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 It's not that extreme DD. I simply want either Reinhart, Bennett, or Ekblad over whoever we pick 5th, 6th, or 7th. Draisaitl shows a lot of potential too. Those are four kids who may not be available at 5th or 6th. The season is over and the Flames are mathematically elimated from the playoffs. Wins at this point in the season are not as important as moving into the future with one of those four kids. I know you are going to say there's no gaurantees but that's like telling your son, "there's no gaurantees of getting a good job after you go through tough times in university so you might as well party it up while you're young and skip school." Thats like that's like that's like that's like... we can go on back and forth forever. At the end of the day, it's worth it to lose games at this point in the season in order to gain a draft advantage. What happened to giving your kids the message that it is not important whether you win or lose as long you give it your best effort to win? Your message is it is good to lose........ Your solution does not send a proper message to anyone. Your message is "it is okay to lose", or "it is okay to put forth a token effort" for the sake of some perceived gain down the road.... Your message is flawed on just about every level of sports and competitive thinking.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyerfan52 Posted April 1, 2014 Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 I know you are going to say there's no gaurantees but that's like telling your son, "there's no gaurantees of getting a good job after you go through tough times in university so you might as well party it up while you're young and skip school." Thats like that's like that's like that's like... we can go on back and forth forever. At the end of the day, it's worth it to lose games at this point in the season in order to gain a draft advantage. That's the opposite of trying to be better. Partying & skipping classes rather then working for that degree is more akin to wanting to lose in hopes of winning a lottery. Nice attitude. Might as well blow the tuition on lottery tickets to up your odds. With both you put in little effort in hopes fate will give what you refuse to work for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyerfan52 Posted April 1, 2014 Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 please do. You asked. If your personal beliefs tell you that necrophilia or zoophilia are fine & something you don't mind participating in that's something you can try to justify too but you'll never convince me to try either. How's that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted April 1, 2014 Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 What happened to giving your kids the message that it is not important whether you win or lose as long you give it your best effort to win? Your message is it is good to lose........ Your solution does not send a proper message to anyone. Your message is "it is okay to lose", or "it is okay to put forth a token effort" for the sake of some perceived gain down the road.... Your message is flawed on just about every level of sports and competitive thinking.... First off, the "perceived gain" is not a perception. There is an undeniable advantage to drafting higher. You and others are trying to discount that fact by suggesting some later picked prospects turn out better than others but that's a result of other variables like the team's scouting talents and development program, not the fact that there is an advantage to drafting higher. ie. Drafting 1st overall, you can pick from all prospects available but if you draft 8th overall, then your choices are limited to all prospects available minus the previous 7 that are already selected. Makes sense? It shouldn't need validating. It's simply advantageous to draft higher. Secondly, and probably more importantly, i don't like the "message" either but like i said before, it's the product of the draft system. I agree. It's not a great message. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyerfan52 Posted April 1, 2014 Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 First off, the "perceived gain" is not a perception. There is an undeniable advantage to drafting higher. You and others are trying to discount that fact by suggesting some later picked prospects turn out better than others but that's a result of other variables like the team's scouting talents and development program, not the fact that there is an advantage to drafting higher. ie. Drafting 1st overall, you can pick from all prospects available but if you draft 8th overall, then your choices are limited to all prospects available minus the previous 7 that are already selected. Makes sense? It shouldn't need validating. It's simply advantageous to draft higher. Secondly, and probably more importantly, i don't like the "message" either but like i said before, it's the product of the draft system. I agree. It's not a great message. It's a lottery. Every ticket has a chance. So the more tickets the better your odds. We could probably get a high pick for Monahan (possibly even the #1 overall from Buffalo) & lower picks for others so if we trade everyone of value we have dang good odds of drafting 1 or 2 of those you like. Anaheim would probably give the Sens pick (9th right now) & their own for Gio. You kill 2 birds as it gives you a dang good shot @ MacDavid (jj's dreamboat) next year. To hit the floor you just pay scrubs big $s on 1 year contracts until the good UFAs are calling & other great players are demanding trades with Calgary as the only destination. Great plan. Works every time. Right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kulstad Posted April 1, 2014 Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 Secondly, and probably more importantly, i don't like the "message" either but like i said before, it's the product of the draft system. I agree. It's not a great message. So why not take the moral high road and continue to play like you intend to win every game? Not only does it avoid saying "let's tank for better odds at #1 overall in the draft", but it goes a long way to establishing the kind of atmosphere and sense of team and pride that the "uber UFAs" of the future look for. Tanking for better 1/1 odds Short term: better 1/1 odds Long term: perception (right or wrong, but duly earned) of poor team attitude among future UFA stars, causing them to want to avoid Calgary at all costs Play like you mean it, every game, regardless of standings Short term: decreased 1/1 odds Long term: perception (right or wrong, but duly earned) of positive team attitude among future UFA stars, potentially leading to them wanting to be a Calgary Flame For the sake of the survivability of a franchise (any franchise, any sport), which would be the smarter course of action to take (and you can only take one)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyerfan52 Posted April 1, 2014 Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 So why not take the moral high road and continue to play like you intend to win every game? Not only does it avoid saying "let's tank for better odds at #1 overall in the draft", but it goes a long way to establishing the kind of atmosphere and sense of team and pride that the "uber UFAs" of the future look for. Tanking for better 1/1 odds Short term: better 1/1 odds Long term: perception (right or wrong, but duly earned) of poor team attitude among future UFA stars, causing them to want to avoid Calgary at all costs Play like you mean it, every game, regardless of standings Short term: decreased 1/1 odds Long term: perception (right or wrong, but duly earned) of positive team attitude among future UFA stars, potentially leading to them wanting to be a Calgary Flame For the sake of the survivability of a franchise (any franchise, any sport), which would be the smarter course of action to take (and you can only take one)? Nicely put. Give yourself a +1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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