agulati Posted May 29, 2012 Report Share Posted May 29, 2012 Joey Leach was drafted by the flames 3rd round 73rd overall in 2010. He remains unsigned an I believe the deadline for signing drafted prospects is June 1st, 2 years after they are drafted. With just two days left, what do you all reckon is happening? If unsigned he will go back through the draft and I believe Flames will not getting anything for losing him. Leach played for Kootenay Ice and ended with 12 goals and 31 assists for 43 points in 72 games last season. He will still be junior eligible next year and is one of the few true young defensive prospects the team has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kehatch Posted May 29, 2012 Report Share Posted May 29, 2012 Joey Leach was drafted by the flames 3rd round 73rd overall in 2010. He remains unsigned an I believe the deadline for signing drafted prospects is June 1st, 2 years after they are drafted. With just two days left, what do you all reckon is happening? If unsigned he will go back through the draft and I believe Flames will not getting anything for losing him. Leach played for Kootenay Ice and ended with 12 goals and 31 assists for 43 points in 72 games last season. He will still be junior eligible next year and is one of the few true young defensive prospects the team has. I think he gets signed. If he doesn't it is because the Flames have decided they don't want to give him an NHL contract. It is unlikely Leach would go through the draft on his own accord. His profile is too low. But with the Flames taking chances on Lamb, Wilson, Henry, Mikkelson, Connolly, Carson, etc I think they take a chance on one of their own drafted players. He has developed at least on par with the expected development curve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agulati Posted May 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 29, 2012 Yeah I agree with his profile being low. If this is because the flames are not interested in signing him, it is a bit surprising. Especially given the number of FA prospects they are signing. They lack defensemen around the 18-20 bracket as well. Wotherspoon, Ramage and Leach being the only ones I can think of. Hopefully they do sign him as he is a young player who can develop into 3-4 dman with signs pointing towards a decent shutdown capability. His point totals were not too shabby for a shutdown dman either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kehatch Posted May 29, 2012 Report Share Posted May 29, 2012 Yeah I agree with his profile being low. If this is because the flames are not interested in signing him, it is a bit surprising. Especially given the number of FA prospects they are signing. They lack defensemen around the 18-20 bracket as well. Wotherspoon, Ramage and Leach being the only ones I can think of. Hopefully they do sign him as he is a young player who can develop into 3-4 dman with signs pointing towards a decent shutdown capability. His point totals were not too shabby for a shutdown dman either That is why I think he does get signed. We aren't overflowing in D. But it is possible the scouts don't like what they see and don't want to burn one of our 50-contracts on him. Especially after bringing on Lamb, Martin, Smith, Wilson, and possibly Connelly if he gets re-signed. I don't think any of them have less potential then Leach and they were all acquired in 1-season for nothing and are NHL ready. We also have Brodie who is only 21 and Wotherspoon and Ramage need a contract next season. ELCs run for 3-seasons so it is a bit of a commitment to make if you don't think a player has a reasonable chance of developing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted May 29, 2012 Report Share Posted May 29, 2012 I think he gets signed too but I'm not too broken up about it. I wasn't a leech fan when the drafted him and I havnt really seen much outbid him to change that opinion. Safe steady dmen with minimal upside and skating needs an upgrade. Not saying he is useless just not a top prospect or someone I would be upset losing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kehatch Posted May 30, 2012 Report Share Posted May 30, 2012 I think he gets signed too but I'm not too broken up about it. I wasn't a leech fan when the drafted him and I havnt really seen much outbid him to change that opinion. Safe steady dmen with minimal upside and skating needs an upgrade. Not saying he is useless just not a top prospect or someone I would be upset losing. I have to agree with that. But the Flames drafted him and he has progressed at the expected rate so you have to think they still like him. Different GM but a bunch of the same people. Like you I won't lose any sleep over losing him though if it comes down to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crzydrvr Posted May 30, 2012 Report Share Posted May 30, 2012 Like you I won't lose any sleep over losing him though if it comes down to that. I might lose a bit. If only because we spent a third round pick on the guy and losing him for nothing would be TERRIBLE asset management. His upside is limited, but his progress is encouraging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kehatch Posted May 30, 2012 Report Share Posted May 30, 2012 I might lose a bit. If only because we spent a third round pick on the guy and losing him for nothing would be TERRIBLE asset management. His upside is limited, but his progress is encouraging. That is what happens to third round picks. For every one that works out 4 don't. If you lose sleep over every mid or late pick that doesn't materialize an impactful NHL player then you will count a load of sheep! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crzydrvr Posted May 30, 2012 Report Share Posted May 30, 2012 That is what happens to third round picks. For every one that works out 4 don't. If you lose sleep over every mid or late pick that doesn't materialize an impactful NHL player then you will count a load of sheep! That doesn't make it excusable. The odds are stacked for many mid-tier prospects, which is why fans don't worry much. But every member of the scouting staff comes out of each draft thinking they got a hit on every player, and that is the goal. A good team makes use of their first round picks. A great team makes use of their later picks as well. Witness impact players such as Jonathan Quick (third round), Keith Yandle (3rd round), Tobias Enstrom (8th round), Dustin Byfuglien (8th round), Joe Pavelski (7th round). If he was such a marginal player, why bother picking him? Obviously if that was the case at the time they could have gone with other players. But they saw something in him, and he hasn't regressed or stayed par for the course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted May 30, 2012 Report Share Posted May 30, 2012 I agree, and I think it's not so much that a 3rd round pick woudlnt be in the NHL it's that a 3rd round pick 2 years later isn't worth signing thats what frusturates me. I'm not upset about losing the player but i'm definetly put off by the fact that once again the Flames have used a draft pick on a player that 2 year later they suddenly decide he cna't play in the nhl? Another reason I keep wondering how Todd Button has remained to stay as the director of scouting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kehatch Posted May 30, 2012 Report Share Posted May 30, 2012 I agree, and I think it's not so much that a 3rd round pick woudlnt be in the NHL it's that a 3rd round pick 2 years later isn't worth signing thats what frusturates me. I'm not upset about losing the player but i'm definetly put off by the fact that once again the Flames have used a draft pick on a player that 2 year later they suddenly decide he cna't play in the nhl? Another reason I keep wondering how Todd Button has remained to stay as the director of scouting. I think you are being unfair. First, chances are Leach signs a contract. Second, the Flames have drafted very well over the past 2 drafts. 1 - Baertschi 2 - Granlund, Wotherspoon 3 - Reinhart, Leach 4 - Gaudreau, Ramage, Arnold 5 - Ferland 6 - Brossoit 7 - Holland (traded) Who knows how many of those turn out. But of the 11 picks there I only really have a problem with 2 (Wotherspoon, Leach) and I don't have that big of a problem with Wotherspoon. Considering that drafts outside of the 2 round have less then a 10% chance in materializing in a NHL player it looks pretty good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted May 30, 2012 Report Share Posted May 30, 2012 I think you are being unfair. First, chances are Leach signs a contract. Second, the Flames have drafted very well over the past 2 drafts. 1 - Baertschi 2 - Granlund, Wotherspoon 3 - Reinhart, Leach 4 - Gaudreau, Ramage, Arnold 5 - Ferland 6 - Brossoit 7 - Holland (traded) Who knows how many of those turn out. But of the 11 picks there I only really have a problem with 2 (Wotherspoon, Leach) and I don't have that big of a problem with Wotherspoon. Considering that drafts outside of the 2 round have less then a 10% chance in materializing in a NHL player it looks pretty good. If he signs sure, but 1 day out and we have heard nothing. I'm not as high on those drafts as you i'd give them both average grades. I think alot of the players that alot of fans like out of those drafts, Arnold and Ferland for example, are going to struggle making the transition to the NHL. The scouting could be alot better imo and that's why I am not a fan of still having Todd Button around, not allabout performance for me it's about a change in direction that I think is needed. Flames still go to heavy on the same style of dman and have not drafted enough speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ring-a-ding-dong-dandy Posted May 30, 2012 Report Share Posted May 30, 2012 If he signs sure, but 1 day out and we have heard nothing. I'm not as high on those drafts as you i'd give them both average grades. I think alot of the players that alot of fans like out of those drafts, Arnold and Ferland for example, are going to struggle making the transition to the NHL. The scouting could be alot better imo and that's why I am not a fan of still having Todd Button around, not allabout performance for me it's about a change in direction that I think is needed. Flames still go to heavy on the same style of dman and have not drafted enough speed. there is still 2 days to get a deal signed, maybe closer to a day and a half. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agulati Posted May 30, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 30, 2012 If he signs sure, but 1 day out and we have heard nothing. I'm not as high on those drafts as you i'd give them both average grades. I think alot of the players that alot of fans like out of those drafts, Arnold and Ferland for example, are going to struggle making the transition to the NHL. The scouting could be alot better imo and that's why I am not a fan of still having Todd Button around, not allabout performance for me it's about a change in direction that I think is needed. Flames still go to heavy on the same style of dman and have not drafted enough speed. I echo your sentiment that a player drafted two years prior still on his expected development curve not ring signed points towards lack of aptitude in the scouting department. Another reason might be that under Feaster the department has been asked to go in a different direction with skill and puck mobility a top priority and Leach not fitting in, will not be given a contract. If it is the latter point, I will be a bit dissappointed. I realize it is three year commitment and that we have many defenseman coming in but not too many around the 18-20 range. Out of the prospects we keep on talking about, Wilson, Smith an Cardon might not even be included given their age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zirakzigil Posted May 30, 2012 Report Share Posted May 30, 2012 Its being reported that the Flames will not sign him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manu11 Posted May 30, 2012 Report Share Posted May 30, 2012 I agree, and I think it's not so much that a 3rd round pick woudlnt be in the NHL it's that a 3rd round pick 2 years later isn't worth signing thats what frusturates me. I'm not upset about losing the player but i'm definetly put off by the fact that once again the Flames have used a draft pick on a player that 2 year later they suddenly decide he cna't play in the nhl? Another reason I keep wondering how Todd Button has remained to stay as the director of scouting. I would have to agree with this. It's really sad to see a 3round pick, two years later, as not good enough to develop further. He has solid numbers and wasn't regressing from what I understand. Couldn't they have at least tried to trade him to another organization for a struggling prospect who they like or a late pick or something? Or can't you trade a prospect that is not under contract? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agulati Posted May 30, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 30, 2012 According to FAN 960 Weisbrod has said that the flames will not be signing Leach. One of the reasons being they view him to still be a few years away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ring-a-ding-dong-dandy Posted May 30, 2012 Report Share Posted May 30, 2012 According to FAN 960 Weisbrod has said that the flames will not be signing Leach. One of the reasons being they view him to still be a few years away. I may be reading too much into how something was said but I noticed when Weisbrod was talking about Leach he said "he will be a very good pro", in my experience usually when talking about potential they will say NHLer and not "pro"this leads me to think that they don't believe Leach will make the NHL and if he does he won't be a fixture in the league Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crzydrvr Posted May 31, 2012 Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 Flames Walk Away from Joey Leach It's basically all but confirmed. We lack defensive prospects as is, and yet apparently he isn't good enough to be signed. He's re-entering the draft. There better be a damn good reason for this type of move. We used a third rounder on this guy. That's another pick we could have used trying to draft the next Brad Marchand or the next Jonathan Quick. What's changed between 2010 and now? It certainly isn't the guys in charge of scouting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C_worthy Posted May 31, 2012 Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 Obviously they weren't overly impressed with his stint in Abby. Also, they may have other palns for those contract spots (i.e. a 3 for 1 trade, for example) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kehatch Posted May 31, 2012 Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 Part of it is to treat Leach well. If we don't have plans for him with the Heat or Flames give him a chance to enter the draft again and go to a team that has a place for him. Our treatment of prospects is important to our reputation and parking him in the ECHL and not letting him develop would be a poor move. I am surprised they couldn't find room for him. But clearly they didn't like what they want and didn't want to make a 3 year development commitment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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