Training Camp 2011

[burnitotheground]

Whats the consensus opinion on breen? Is he a guy the flames should invest time in at nhl level this year? 4-5 games in first half and 4-5 games in january as call up or should they leave him in ABBY for the year. After reading up on him with the nhl.com bit sounds like he's still progressing but you have to play against better players to become better. Plus he should learn from physical veterans like sarich and hannah while they are still under contracts for the flames. There are a lot of new defencemen to the org. Does anyone have a more detailed defence depth chart (last 2 years stats, what org they came from, when drafted, career potential) don't really have time to look, so i'll have to watch who gets cut or sent down after camp.

[bosn111]

There is no solid answer to your question Burn,

If you go back in this thread a page or 2 you will see a debate going on which is ended without a consensus being reached. Different fans like and dislike different players for different reasons. The only real item we can agree on is that for this season different prospects were brought in or retained as potential call ups to cover for different starters. Basically we have both puck moving defence, stay at home defence and some purely offensively minded defence. We will see how it all works out after camp.

[JA_Boomer]

The Flames trim the training camp roster by 19 today: http://flames.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=589275&navid=DL|CGY|home

My question is, with Adam Avramenko, Justin Dowling, Turner Elson, James Martin, and C.J. Severyn being assigned to Abbotsford, does that indicate they have also been signed to AHL contracts?

The Heat seem to have A LOT of players this year if that is the case...and so will the Flames for that matter.

[Baalzamon]

Negrin got cut?!?

[C_worthy]

Negrin got cut?!?

Just about to post that...

Surprising - they sure didn't give him much of a chance. I didn't notice him at the practice and I think Mikkelson and Henry have both looked really good, but still...

I also thought Holland deserved a longer look.

[MisterJoji]

Well with the improvement of Breen the last year as well as solid camps from Mikkelson, Henry, Smith in addition to the fact that Brodie and Carson were already ahead of him on the depth chart, does this spell the end of Negrin's chances? Aside from Dion and hopefully Brodie, Sutter's defenseman draft picks have had a poor showing. Also, I'm surprised Piskula made this round of cuts.

[cross16]

I think the thinking is that Negrin was always going to be in the AHL. I don't typically look at these as "cuts" and i havn't been to any of training camp so i'm not sure how Negrin looks but I think Negrin was always going to be in the AHL regardless of the type of camp he had because he needs that time to prove that he can be healthy and grow his game. Why keep him around if that is the case?

I'm also a little surpsied on Holland thought he would get another game but at the same time there was so little chance of him making the NHL roster you need to get good looks at players who have a more realistic shot.

[JTech780]

I'm not surprised at Negrin getting cut, he looked pretty good at the prospect tourney but he didn't really stand out. I do like his skating ability and his positioning, but his decision making with the puck is well below NHL level IMO. I think if he can improve on his play with the puck and can stay healthy there is a chance we might see him in Calgary next year, but I think there are too many players ahead of him on the depth chart this year.

Bouwmeester

Giordano

Hannan

Butler

Babchuk

Sarich

Carson

Mikkelson

Wilson

Henry

Brodie

Smith

Breen

Negrin

Piskula

As of today that's pecking order as I see it.

[Ring-a-ding-dong-dandy]

The Flames trim the training camp roster by 19 today: http://flames.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=589275&navid=DL|CGY|home

My question is, with Adam Avramenko, Justin Dowling, Turner Elson, James Martin, and C.J. Severyn being assigned to Abbotsford, does that indicate they have also been signed to AHL contracts?

The Heat seem to have A LOT of players this year if that is the case...and so will the Flames for that matter.

Elson and Martin are listed as "skating with Abbotsford" I would assume this means they have impressed enough to get a tryout for the Heat. The others all would be under AHL contracts I would assume.

[Jens-1]

I'm not to surprised about Negrin. I think with Breens last year and the actually good playing of Mikkelson they'll give those guys a chance before an injury plagued player like Negrin.

It isn't bad for Negrin to spent more time in the AHL. He definitely get alot of ice time and if he stays healthy, then it'll be never to late for a call up.

[kehatch]

The watch is on.

At a recent season ticket holder lunch Feaster made the comment that they have three rookies that they think may make the team out of camp.

The rookies still in camp are:

• Baertschi
  
• Reinhart
  
• Byron
  
• Bouma
  
• Nemisz
  
• Meyer
  
• Walter
  
• Desbiens
  
• Patterson
  
• Breen
  
• Bancks
  
• Horak
  
• Piskula
  

The line-up for tomorrows game is:

Stempniak-Byron-Bourque

Baertschi-Reinhart-Hagman

Bouma-Stajan-Nemisz

Meyer-Walter-Desbiens

Patterson

Giordano-Hannan

Babchuk-Henry

Mikkelson-Smith

Breen

Karlson

Irving

Patterson and Breen look to travel with the team but be a healthy scratch. Horak, Bancks, Brodie, and Piskula are not playing. I think its safe to say none of them are earmarked to make the team.

Reinhart has been good, but it is unlikely he will make the team. Nemisz has shown he needs some more time in the AHL. Which leaves Baertschi, Bouma, and Byron as the most likely to be the guys with a chance of making the team.

Add bubble players like Henry and Mikkelson and players like Hagman and Stajan fighting to retain their jobs and the situation is getting interesting.

The depth chart at the moment is:

LW

Tanguay

Hagman (LW/RW)

Glencross

Ivanans *IR*

Baertschi

Bouma (C/W)

RW

Iginla

Bourque (LW/RW)

Stempniak (LW/RW)

Moss (C/W)

Jackman

TK (LW/RW)

PLL *Suspension*

C

Backlund

Jokinen

Stajan

Morrison (C/W) *IR*

Byron

D

Bouwmeester

Giordano

Butler

Hannan

Babchuk

Sarich *IR*

Carson *IR*

Mikkelson

Henry

Smith

Wilson

With Hagman making a legitimate push to make the team and Feaster making positive comments about him potentially 'breaking out' this season it is starting to look pretty crowded if rookies make the team.

I am looking for most of the rookies to be cut either Sunday or Monday leaving us with a complete roster. If Baertschi, Byron, and/or Bouma are still on the roster come Tuesday it may get interesting. My best guess for the opening day roster is:

Tanguay-Backlund-Iginla

Glencross-Jokinen-Bourque

Baertschi-Byron-Hagman

Bouma-Moss-Stempniak

X Jackman-Stajan

Bouwmeester-Butler

Giordano-Hannan

Mikkelson-Babchuk

X Henry

Kipper

Karlson

I don't see a place for TK. I don't think they keep it that way. But they will see how the rookies perform and how Morrison recovers before making bigger changes. I also think they wait and see what they have in Hagman.

If things go well look for one of Hagman, Bourque, and Stempniak to go. I would also look for Stajan to go if Byron holds things together at C. Moss could also go when Morrison returns. Moss, Stempniak, and Hagman are all UFA after the season and could bring back a pick in return. Bourque would be part of a larger deal. Stajan may get put on waivers if they can't move him.

I could also see Hagman getting traded prior to opening night if his pre-season efforts has upped his value at all. But I think they will give him a few games in the NHL barring a good offer.

Interesting times.

[bosn111]

I actually have 6 rookies still on my radar as showing strong so far.

Baertschi, Byron, Bouma as you say, but also Henry, and Bancks. I also disagree with you about Nemisz. I think he is showing very well. Not 2nd line well just yet, but I see him as another Moss with better hands.

If these rookies continue to perform, I could see (based on apparent preseason chemistry) that the lineup could be as follows opening day.

Tanguay / Byron / Iginla (Tanguay and Byron have shown some chemistry)

Baertschi / Backlund / Hagman (Lots of Chemistry with these 3 first game)

Glencross / Jokinen / Moss (Stempniak)

Jackman (Kostopolous, Bancks)/ Stajan (Moss, Bouma) / Stempniak (Jackman)

Bouma, Bancks, Kostopolous (Jackman), Bourque.

I doubt this lineup will happen. Most likely Baertschi will return to Junior and Bourque will be on the 2nd line. In order to keep both Byron and Baertschi, you would need to see 2 of Bourque, Jackman, Stajan, Kostopolous and / or Hagman to be traded away. When Morrison comes back that could also force another trade unless they rotate players through as healthy scratches. I wouldn't be terribly disappointed if any of these trades are made, except maybe Jackman as I really like the way he plays and the effort he puts in.

I think for the sake of argument that a forward line up of

Tanguay / Byron / Iginla

Baertschi / Backlund / Hagman

Glencross / Jokinen / Stempniak

Bancks / Moss / Jackman

Bouma, Morrison, Letourneau-Leblond

would be quite potent with a huge influx of youth and raw talent based on what I have seen so far in the pre-season. Essentially that would put Stajan, Bourque and Kostopolous on the the trading block.

TKO - if a team needs a veteran winger for leadership he could bring a 3rd round pick otherwise likely a 4th, 5th or low prospect

Stajan - teams willing to take a chance or liking the lower real dollars to cap hit of 2 of the next 3 years might trade a 2nd otherwise a 3rd or mid level prospect

Bourque - Most teams would likely do a 2nd rounder for Bourque or a mid range prospect. 3rd rounder would likely be the lowest.

I am not promoting any of this specifically but it is fun to speculate. Could be good moves all around for the future of the team if the above takes place.

[kehatch]

I wasn't considering Henry as a rookie. But your right. He does meet the technical definition of a rookie.

Feaster was the one that said 3-rookies. He said it on Sep 22. Which is why I used 3. I don't disagree with your list. But if they are truly down to 3 hopefuls its down to Byron, Baertschi, Bouma, Nemisz, and Henry. Bancks isn't playing Sat and I don't see him ahead of anyone on that list. Reinhart isn't making it. The rest of the rookies playing Sat are not ready.

I think Henry and Byron are definitely being considered. They have performed well throughout camp. Both have prime placement in Saturday's game. Byron in particular has been sold by management.

That leaves Nemisz, Baertschi, and Bouma as the other possible guys that could be part of the three. None would shock me. But of the three I think Nemisz has done the least in camp and has shown the greatest need for more seasoning. Bouma also had 16-games last season with the Flames and was brought on ahead of Nemisz. Baertschi is probably the most likely to head back. But based on his play I wouldn't be shocked to see him get a few games first to see if he can stick.

[Demonous_Xodus]

http://flames.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=589946

Assigned to Abbotsford (12):

Carter Bancks (LW)

Chris Breen (D)

T.J. Brodie (D)

Leland Irving (G)

Stefan Meyer ©

Brendan Mikkelson (D)

Greg Nemisz (RW)

Joni Ortio (G)

Gaelan Patterson ©

Joe Piskula (D)

Ben Walter ©

Clay Wilson (D)

Returning to Juniors (2):

Sven Baertschi (LW) Portland (WHL)

Max Reinhart © Kootenay (WHL)

Meaning Paul Byron, Lance Bouma and Jordan Henry are still here, as expected. Horak and Smith are still here?

Remaining (19) Forwards:

1.Iginla

2.Tanguay

3.Backlund

4.Jokinen

5.Hagman

6.Glencross

7.Stajan

8.Bourque

9.Moss

10.Jackman

11.Kostopoulos

12.Stempniak

13.Byron

14.Horak

15.Morrison *IR

16.Ivanans *IR

17.Desbiens

18.Bouma

19.Letourneau-Leblond

Opening Night Roster:

Tanguay - Backlund - Iginla

Hagman - Byron - Bourque

Glencross - Jokinen - Stempniak

Bouma - Moss - Jackman

x- Kostopoulos, Desbiens

Remaining (9) Defensemen:

Bouwmeester

Giordano

Sarich *IR

Hannan

Butler

Babchuk

Carson * IR

Henry

Smith

Meaning opening day could be for D:

Bouwmeester - Butler

Hannan - Giordano

Babchuk - Henry

x- Smith

[C_worthy]

How they kept Smith up and sent Mikkelson and Brodie down is beyond me. (Don't get me wrong, I think Brodie needs more development and should therefore go down, I am just saying between the two, there is no contest who is better)

Henry definitely deserves a further look, but if Sarich isn't ready for opening night (Carson definitely won't be), Smith is the 7th defenseman - all I can say is wow.

[ReadyForTheCup]

Glad to see Baertschi heading back to Portland, especially because I'm going to the Winterhawks game this saturday and am looking forward to seeing him play. He looked good on that second line last year, so I'm excited to see what he does now that the number one spot is his to lose.

Butter mentioned after the oilers game (saturday) that Sven has 2 more years left in the minors. I don't think anyone in management ever thought Sven had a chance of making it on the team this year, and I would agree with that thinking. Let the kid develop more. I like that approach.

As for the other guys, I was a little surprised to see Brodie shipped off, but then again he didn't seem to have amazing games playing against WHL type of players in the last pre-season games so I guess he didn't prove that he deserved to stick around.

The only other comment I have is that I'm excited for the remaining pre-season games as we'll be icing a team that will be very similar to our opening night roster. Should be MUCH better hockey from here on. Go Flames.

[DirtyDeeds]

How they kept Smith up and sent Mikkelson and Brodie down is beyond me. (Don't get me wrong, I think Brodie needs more development and should therefore go down, I am just saying between the two, there is no contest who is better)

Henry definitely deserves a further look, but if Sarich isn't ready for opening night (Carson definitely won't be), Smith is the 7th defenseman - all I can say is wow.

Last I heard about a week ago was that Sarich could be out until Christmas, and that it is really tough to judge how long his type of injury would take to heal properly.

Feaster just mentioned on the radio that Sarich is cleared for contact and going to take off the yellow no contact jersey. That would be good news.

[Louis23]

I don't see how Horak/Bouma heck even Byron(who only had one good game IMO) stick around and Nemisz not. Nemisz had a very good camp, he is a first round pick and is big/strong enough to play a 4th line role while developping his offensive game,, anyways. I'm a bit disappointed about Baerstchi.. and don't see why they kept Smith around. Mikkelson is a better player IMO.

[Baalzamon]

Mikkelson is about 400 orders of magnitude better than Smith. I have absolutely no comprehension how Derek Smith survived this round of cuts.

Horak surprised me. Is this Feaster playing favourites?

Byron and Bouma don't surprise me at all. Definitely looks like they're trying to replace Stajan. That might explain Horak's presence. (to be fair, Horak had a pretty good game against Edmonton).

Bouwmeester - Hannan

Giordano - Henry

Butler - Babchuk

Smith(shudder)

[yukonwolf]

With Byron sticking around it seems the coaching staff is trying to light a fire under Stajan. I can easily see him riding the pressbox come the beginning of the reg season or possibly traded. I also think Hagman is on his way out as well.

[ReadyForTheCup]

Mikkelson is about 400 orders of magnitude better than Smith. I have absolutely no comprehension how Derek Smith survived this round of cuts.

Horak surprised me. Is this Feaster playing favourites?

Byron and Bouma don't surprise me at all. Definitely looks like they're trying to replace Stajan. That might explain Horak's presence. (to be fair, Horak had a pretty good game against Edmonton).

Bouwmeester - Hannan

Giordano - Henry

Butler - Babchuk

Smith(shudder)

Maybe he's shopping some of these players and thus giving the interested NHL clubs another chance to take a look at 'em? Just a thought....more like a wish, but yeah.

[DL44]

One thing to keep in mind..

Training camp isn't about absolutely keeping the best guys around for as long as possible...

Its about accurate evaluation of the talent you have in camp to determine their fate.

Players aren't 100% of the time sticking around because they are considered better than the ones that get cut.. in many cases its because the evaluation process on the player is still incomplete... admin is probably trying to still determine what that player is or where he can fit into the organization.

If players they have bookmarked for the A, or ECHL, or junior are showing exactly what the admin has expected, then they will move them to their designated destination sooner than a lesser player they are still trying to gauge...

i.e. people are generally ok with Baertschi getting 'cut' back to Jr. despite outplaying a number of players still left... but his destination was ultimately going to be a return Jr. so they move now anyway to give a lesser player(s) a longer look to see what they have...

The other players are obviously a lot less obvious as marked by the number of people upset by some of the moves.

Also don't forget about waiver strategy...

If you can sneak a few players thru waivers now untouched, they are waiver exempt for certain amount of time after initially clearing.

It may be a larger risk to waive Mikkelsson next week... vs this week while every team is loaded with their prospects.

just a couple variables to consider.. outside of 'omg! they think Smith is better than Mikkelsson!!1!'

[kehatch]

I am surprised to Mikkelson moved down and Smith and Desbiens were kept up. Other then that nothing is shocking. I really hope that Smith doesn't make the team. I haven't been impressed with his game.

[JTech780]

Mikkelson is about 400 orders of magnitude better than Smith. I have absolutely no comprehension how Derek Smith survived this round of cuts.

Horak surprised me. Is this Feaster playing favourites?

Byron and Bouma don't surprise me at all. Definitely looks like they're trying to replace Stajan. That might explain Horak's presence. (to be fair, Horak had a pretty good game against Edmonton).

Bouwmeester - Hannan

Giordano - Henry

Butler - Babchuk

Smith(shudder)

I don't quite get how Smith gets into top 7 to start the season over Mikkelson. I also wouldn't be surprised to see him get claimed off of waivers, there are a few teams who can use a 24 year old defenseman who can skate and has size at 6'3". IMO Mikkelson makes a really good 7th defenseman.

I think the blueline will look like this:

Bouwmeester - Butler

Giordano - Hannan

Henry - Babchuk

Smith

[ali-iggy]

brodie mikkelson, nemisz deserve another game smith how did smith survive the round of cuts he probably bribed feaster.