cross16 Posted June 30, 2016 Report Share Posted June 30, 2016 This is sounding a lot like the Phaneuf deal. And the Hamilton deal. Multiple GMs are apparently complaining they didn't know Hall was available and would have offered more. If true, thst is a terrible move by Edmonton. You can't trade you best asset for an underwhelming return. Sounds like Larsson was his target and he tried to get him using RNH, Eberle picks whatever and Shero refused to budge and demanded Hall and Chiarelli finally blinked and caved. Sounds like it was much more about getting Adam Larsson and less about moving Taylor Hall. Big risk. Could pay off if Larsson can get that offence up becuase as good as he is defensivly IMO I think a top line winger for a good defensive 3/4 dman is pretty bad asset managment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowtownguy Posted June 30, 2016 Report Share Posted June 30, 2016 I believe that Chiarelli made his team better as I have long believed that Taylor Hall was a cancer on that team despite his offensive production. Getting Larsson was a solid acquisition. Having said that, I think he could have received more for Taylor. Sheesh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conundrumed Posted July 1, 2016 Report Share Posted July 1, 2016 Sounds like Larsson was his target and he tried to get him using RNH, Eberle picks whatever and Shero refused to budge and demanded Hall and Chiarelli finally blinked and caved. Sounds like it was much more about getting Adam Larsson and less about moving Taylor Hall. Big risk. Could pay off if Larsson can get that offence up becuase as good as he is defensivly IMO I think a top line winger for a good defensive 3/4 dman is pretty bad asset managment. Don't forget NJ was offensively challenged, I don't think Larsson had a choice in not thinking about offense. I believe Edmonton gave up what they had to. I wouldn't move Larsson for anything less. I've read and heard, "now watch Hall put up 90 points". Good luck with that one. I don't believe it's as big a hit to Ed's O as it is to NJ's D. RNH keeps coming up as trade fodder, I think that would be a bigger mistake. He's way better than Draisaitl as 2C, way more responsible at 2 way play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlbertaBoy12 Posted July 1, 2016 Report Share Posted July 1, 2016 Cant believe the oilers are going to offer lucic 7 years 42 million, thats insane. I cant see that contract not bitting them in the behind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted July 1, 2016 Report Share Posted July 1, 2016 Don't forget NJ was offensively challenged, I don't think Larsson had a choice in not thinking about offense. I believe Edmonton gave up what they had to. I wouldn't move Larsson for anything less. I've read and heard, "now watch Hall put up 90 points". Good luck with that one. I don't believe it's as big a hit to Ed's O as it is to NJ's D. RNH keeps coming up as trade fodder, I think that would be a bigger mistake. He's way better than Draisaitl as 2C, way more responsible at 2 way play. I get the play a defensive style but he didn't crack 20 pts. I don't care what system you play in a dman who has his skill should be able to do that even without PP time. I'm not sure New Jersey will feel this as much as you think. I thought Damon Seversin looked fantastic last year and could replace a lot of what Larsson did. Plus they've got Greene, Merrill and Steve Santini coming. I think they'll be just fine on D. I do get what you are saying and agree Larsson is a solid dman. I wouldn't have moved him for anyone but Hall or Mcdavid either but I still question that Larsson is the best they could do for Hall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowtownguy Posted July 1, 2016 Report Share Posted July 1, 2016 Chiarelli is rapidly moving up my list of favourite GM's. Jim Benning better be looking over his shoulder. And, Don Sweeney needs to up his game. No kidding. Treliving has always come across as thoughtful and articulate. After recent events, he is now elevated to downright brilliant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlbertaBoy12 Posted July 1, 2016 Report Share Posted July 1, 2016 No kidding. Treliving has always come across as thoughtful and articulate. After recent events, he is now elevated to downright brilliant. Treliving was rated #9 by the hockey news in top 10 gms in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowtownguy Posted July 1, 2016 Report Share Posted July 1, 2016 Treliving was rated #9 by the hockey news in top 10 gms in the league. And Hartley was coach of the year not long ago. Even if Treliving stays put, he is elevated relatively speaking given the recent behaviour of Chiarelli, Benning, and Sweeney. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted July 1, 2016 Report Share Posted July 1, 2016 And Hartley was coach of the year not long ago. Even if Treliving stays put, he is elevated relatively speaking given the recent behaviour of Chiarelli, Benning, and Sweeney. I don't think any of those guys was in the top 10. I am glad they exist so that we may benefit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted July 1, 2016 Report Share Posted July 1, 2016 Some pretty nasty looking lines forming here for the Oilers, Lucic - McDavid - Puljujarvi LW - Draisaitl - Eberle LW - RNH - Yapukov Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted July 1, 2016 Report Share Posted July 1, 2016 Some pretty nasty looking lines forming here for the Oilers, Lucic - McDavid - Puljujarvi LW - Draisaitl - Eberle LW - RNH - Yapukov Nuge or Eberle likely gone. Maroon slots in somewhere. Yak likely gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDeeds Posted July 1, 2016 Report Share Posted July 1, 2016 Nuge or Eberle likely gone. Maroon slots in somewhere. Yak likely gone. I dont know TD. It is easy to say they are gone however look at how much trouble they had to go to just to trade Hall for Adam Larsson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted July 1, 2016 Report Share Posted July 1, 2016 I dont know TD. It is easy to say they are gone however look at how much trouble they had to go to just to trade Hall for Adam Larsson. I think they wanted to do that early on to set the tone. They did. Eberle is the other guy they seemed to have the biggest problem with about attitude. After today's signings. teams will look to make hockey trades to fix up their rosters. Teams that lost out on Okposo and Eriksson. Or ones that failed to address needs at center. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted July 2, 2016 Report Share Posted July 2, 2016 I dont know TD. It is easy to say they are gone however look at how much trouble they had to go to just to trade Hall for Adam Larsson. I agree. I don't think it was a case of him wanting to trade Hall he just realized he has to if he was going to get the dman he wanted. If the oilers could have traded Eberle for Larsson I think they would have. Value just isn't there for Eberle and it won't be for Yak either. The fact that they traded hall to me is a pretty clear indication their other players just don't hold the value they want out of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted July 2, 2016 Report Share Posted July 2, 2016 I agree. I don't think it was a case of him wanting to trade Hall he just realized he has to if he was going to get the dman he wanted. If the oilers could have traded Eberle for Larsson I think they would have. Value just isn't there for Eberle and it won't be for Yak either. The fact that they traded hall to me is a pretty clear indication their other players just don't hold the value they want out of them. You can also say that they used their biggest chip to get a middling D-man and aren't really any better today. They haven't changed the culture except for bringing in Lucic in Hall's place. The problems run deeper than Hall. Draisaitl is (in theory) their 2nd best center, so paying $6m for Nuge on the 2rd line doesn't work. Paying $6m for a part time competitor in Eberle doesn't work either. They may not get a great return for either, but if they peddle the players instead of only contacting a few GM's, they may actually get a good player back. The Hall deal sounds too much like buying a car you have your eye on and paying whatever the seller wants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted July 3, 2016 Report Share Posted July 3, 2016 Wrong.. Doesn't work there either.. Ha ha... http://www2.tsn.ca/bardown/Story.aspx?You'll%2Bget%2Babsolutely%2Broasted%2Bby%2Bthe%2BOilers%2BGM%2Bif%2Byou%2Boffer%2BLarsson%2Bfor%2BHall%2Bin%2BNHL%2B16&id=583533 Lol they really got fleeced. It's a one step forward and two steps back move. It really sounded like GMs were surprised that Hall was available. It's such a crazy trade that it validates crazy rumours such as, To Habs, #4 overall (Dubois) Draisaitl Klefbom To Oilers, Subban Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyerfan52 Posted July 3, 2016 Report Share Posted July 3, 2016 Lol they really got fleeced. It's a one step forward and two steps back move. It really sounded like GMs were surprised that Hall was available. It's such a crazy trade that it validates crazy rumours such as, To Habs, #4 overall (Dubois) Draisaitl Klefbom To Oilers, Subban I'm of the opinion they should have received @ least a 2nd rounder in addition to Larsson but he is that sought after RD & @ 23 working his way up to that top pairing defensive conscience so the partner can join the rush. Like Hamonic he's not a big points guy but very good defensively & logs big minutes. He's not Hamonic yet but is similar. He's developing more of an edge so is harder to play against. They look to finally have 1/2 of a top pairing. They do seem to realize after years of losing that the Golden Boys won't fetch the return hoped for but they can be used with additions (& probably retained salary) as part of a deal to better their team as they've tied their future to Golden Boys version 3 in McDavid, Nurse, Klefborn & now the latest gift (dang, they drop a tad in the lottery but still win) Puljujari. I wouldn't be surprised if the Habs asked for that 4th OA, Draisaitl & Klefborn for PK Subban but Oilers countered with 4th OA, RNH & any D not named Klefborn or Nurse so Bergevin told them to pound sand. After PK was traded for Weber Chia went all KLowe & pulled the trigger on the Hall for Larsson deal. Say what you like but with what Chia did in 1 year with Lucic in for Hall, Larsson added & a few hard noses that aren't completely talent deprived (compare Kassian to Ferland) the Oilers will be a harder team to play against next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted July 3, 2016 Report Share Posted July 3, 2016 ^^^^ There is nothing wrong with the player. They addressed a need for a RHS, but failed to add another attribute that their defense is missing; offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conundrumed Posted July 4, 2016 Report Share Posted July 4, 2016 You can also say that they used their biggest chip to get a middling D-man and aren't really any better today. They haven't changed the culture except for bringing in Lucic in Hall's place. The problems run deeper than Hall. Draisaitl is (in theory) their 2nd best center, so paying $6m for Nuge on the 2rd line doesn't work. Paying $6m for a part time competitor in Eberle doesn't work either. They may not get a great return for either, but if they peddle the players instead of only contacting a few GM's, they may actually get a good player back. The Hall deal sounds too much like buying a car you have your eye on and paying whatever the seller wants. It's a stretch to call Larsson a "middling" dman. Likely a bigger stretch to call Draisaitl a better C than RNH. I believe that is Stat-watching. To trade Hall and then turn around and break up RNH and Eberle doesn't make sense. RNH seems to be completely underrated as a solid 2 way C, likely because of injury, but he's good all over the ice. The $6mil is wasted due to AHL D and some horrendous managing/coaching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted July 4, 2016 Report Share Posted July 4, 2016 It's a stretch to call Larsson a "middling" dman. Likely a bigger stretch to call Draisaitl a better C than RNH. I believe that is Stat-watching. To trade Hall and then turn around and break up RNH and Eberle doesn't make sense. RNH seems to be completely underrated as a solid 2 way C, likely because of injury, but he's good all over the ice. The $6mil is wasted due to AHL D and some horrendous managing/coaching. Middling as in 3/4 d-man. He's not a top 2 in this league; he may become that in the years to come. No GM in their right mind would give you Hall for Larsson. Oh, right. One did. Whether Nuge is a better C than Draisaitl makes no difference. They have decided that Drai is more important to the future of the team, as they have been given offer for him and have said pound sand. Draisaitl will be the #2C on the team, whether he deserves it or not, so they can't have a $6m center playing 2-way hockey on the 3rd line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conundrumed Posted July 5, 2016 Report Share Posted July 5, 2016 Middling as in 3/4 d-man. He's not a top 2 in this league; he may become that in the years to come. No GM in their right mind would give you Hall for Larsson. Oh, right. One did. Whether Nuge is a better C than Draisaitl makes no difference. They have decided that Drai is more important to the future of the team, as they have been given offer for him and have said pound sand. Draisaitl will be the #2C on the team, whether he deserves it or not, so they can't have a $6m center playing 2-way hockey on the 3rd line. So which Dman, straight across, would you say Hall is worth? When RNH starts this season healthy I think Draisaitls lack of D will be magnified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted July 5, 2016 Report Share Posted July 5, 2016 So which Dman, straight across, would you say Hall is worth? When RNH starts this season healthy I think Draisaitls lack of D will be magnified. It would be harder to name any particular guy. If anything, the return should have included at least a prospect. A NHL winger near the top of the league in points should get you something like a Brodie or Seabrooke. I would put it the other way. What would you trade Johnny for? Larsson? No way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conundrumed Posted July 6, 2016 Report Share Posted July 6, 2016 It would be harder to name any particular guy. If anything, the return should have included at least a prospect. A NHL winger near the top of the league in points should get you something like a Brodie or Seabrooke. I would put it the other way. What would you trade Johnny for? Larsson? No way. Because I'm a bigger fan of guys that create, I wouldn't trade Johnny straight across for Hall, if that's the comparison. NJ traded an up and coming D on a good contract that they didn't want to trade. So from their perspective, you have to overpay to get him. IMHO, I don't believe it's much overpayment, good Dmen are not plentiful, and Larsson will be a top 2 in Edmonton. It's really about need, and Ed created the problem so having to lose Hall to rectify isn't shocking. Chances are good they asked for more and NJ said "we're done talking". Chances are also good Chia knew he already had Lucic in his pocket, I believe that's the heart of the matter, is it a good call to trade Hall in favour of Lucic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted July 6, 2016 Report Share Posted July 6, 2016 Because I'm a bigger fan of guys that create, I wouldn't trade Johnny straight across for Hall, if that's the comparison. NJ traded an up and coming D on a good contract that they didn't want to trade. So from their perspective, you have to overpay to get him. IMHO, I don't believe it's much overpayment, good Dmen are not plentiful, and Larsson will be a top 2 in Edmonton. It's really about need, and Ed created the problem so having to lose Hall to rectify isn't shocking. Chances are good they asked for more and NJ said "we're done talking". Chances are also good Chia knew he already had Lucic in his pocket, I believe that's the heart of the matter, is it a good call to trade Hall in favour of Lucic? Johnny for Hall is probably close to a fair trade for both parties, though I would have to think about that one. Johnny for Larsson? No way. As far as the trade goes, NJ said "Hall or nothing". Unfortunately, it like going to one car dealer looking for one car. You either accept the selling price or you get nothing. Could they have gotten a better player if they shopped around? Sure. Adding Lucic is not part of the deal, so you can't use it as the way to claim victory. He was coming regardless of the trade. If Hall was a locker room problem, then they made a relatively good choice in the trade. I can't say I know what Lucic is like in the room, so that could become a distraction in a few years. Or not at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyerfan52 Posted July 6, 2016 Report Share Posted July 6, 2016 Johnny for Hall is probably close to a fair trade for both parties, though I would have to think about that one. Johnny for Larsson? No way. As far as the trade goes, NJ said "Hall or nothing". Unfortunately, it like going to one car dealer looking for one car. You either accept the selling price or you get nothing. Could they have gotten a better player if they shopped around? Sure. I'm of the opinion that Chia was going after PK Subban prior to the draft but Montreal wanted Draisaitl, Nurse & the 4th OA in return. After the draft it became those 2 & Pulujari & you know how the Oilers love their potential. All they would have subtracted from the roster is LD & 2 prospects they hope will become great. Had they pulled the trigger on either the Oilers would have a top 10 #1 D, Hall (as player or trade chip) & probably Lucic. A few days after the draft when the Habs traded PK for Weber Chia got as desperate as KLowe was when players shunned Edmonton (UFAs & using NTC/NMCs) so made a trade for a good (not great) defensive D to shore up a terrible defense. That trade went down within hours of the Montreal/Nashville 1 so it's unlikely Chia did any hard negotiations or even shopped Hall around the league. I've read that a few GMs said they never heard Hall was available so couldn't place an offer. I can see Talbot thanking him though & asking if he can possibly get another in that vein. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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