[Goaltending]

I was just thinking that with retention on both Smith & Lack while allowing for the Murphy buyout (part of the cost for Lack) we are spending 5.725 for the tandem. Roughly what MAF gets in salary.

[Goaltending]

2 hours ago, phoenix66 said:

  Gives me a firm belief we will see the Vancouver Lack  for us this year .

 

Even better I'd like to see the Eddie Lack that played 1 year for the Moose.

[Goaltending]

15 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I wonder what the market for Mason looks like now.  Not many teams that will offer him a starter role, maybe none.  The Jets are probably going to sign Elliott.  Think Philly is going with Neuwirth.  At $2m x 2, do you think Mason would be a good fit?  Would he even take that.

Jets are looking hard @ Mason & the Flyers aren't going with Neuwirth. I see Mason signing for 2 years but it won't be for $2 million per.

 

I still think both teams are patient enough to see what the Caps & Grubauer do before signing a UFA goalie.

[Goaltending]

9 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

Absolutely .. 

and I know people are going to be suggesting Niemi now that you can likely get him cheap , but my gut says stay away 

Im actually now really curious how the backup plays out .. BT on the weekend was less matter of fact about getting one, saying the job could be internal .

I think we get a cheap $1M guy or less, making the chances of Rittich grabbing that spot in camp much higher.. easy to hide a $1M guy in Stockton if he loses the job.

The expectation is Smith is carrying the load ... from both sides, I think this rules out Johnson , tho hes my number one choice in a perfect world

 

Its also been said more than once dont rule out Tom Mcollum 

 

Some really good $1m or less guys are out there ..

McIlhenney

Enroth

Berra

*sigh*  If we had to , Niemi

Personally I'd like to snag Anders Nilsson 

Since it's only the b/u we need it's not a priority. 

On this I hope BT waits to see what happens in Washington as Grubauer is RFA with arbitration rights. He & his agent have justification for a raise from his 0.75 cap (true $s 0.85 making QO 0.935) but they know he'll never be a starter stuck behind Holtby. So the ask could be high (to try for a trade) or they could quietly (so other teams aren't aware & come in low)  ask for a trade.The Caps have cap space  but also need to either re-sign their pending RFA & UFA players or replace them as they only have 12 under contract (1/2 a roster).

Wpg. & Philly are looking for starters until their prospects are ready but taking their time. I can't help wondering if they are waiting on that same outcome.

If Washington gave him a contract @ 2.5-3.0 x 2 with a promise to move him he'd be dang easy to move for a very good return.

[Goaltending]

I feel much better about Smith as our goalie since we acquired Hamonic. I wouldn't doubt Smith was doing cartwheels.

[Flames Defense]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

 

Being prepared means drafting and accumulating assets, which the Flames have already done. I'm just saying use what you already have. 

The trade deadline would just be a way to add additional depth if you want more, which pretty much everyone does irregardless of what they have. 

So if 2 of our top 4 D were injured around Christmas you believe we are prepared ?

 

I agree the TD is when you augment what you have but the lesser the need to add when costs run high the less expenditure. Rather than rent a player that was signed as UFA for a run use that player all year in hopes of finishing higher & maybe getting the home ice (& the associated gate revenue).

[Flames Defense]

55 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

Reason I disagree is I think the A has depth. Between Kylington, Wotherspoon, if he's back, Morrison, a depth signing, and there is Bartowski.

most teams that are good at development trust kids to play in the case of injuries once they've had a few years. I don't understand why the flames can't be the same. If it doesn't work, pick up some vets at the trade deadline. I really don't like the idea of having to give term to someone to play bottom pair again 

Injuries don't wait for the trade deadline.

I believe in being proactive. Like a boy scout it's better to be prepared.

[Flames Defense]

34 minutes ago, kehatch said:

The challenge of putting a couple of kids on the bottom pairing is that you have no depth if there is an injury. I would prefer to see Stone, Fransen, or someone like that paired with one of the kids. Gives us depth when an inevitable injury occurs.

Makes more sense to have @ least 1 vet on the 3rd pairing given that players do get hurt. Heck, last year 3 of the Jets top 5 were out for extended periods.

Ideally I'd want a 4/5 D to have the depth to fill in 1 of the top 4 spots rather than a rookie. If 2 get injured & we have 2 rookies in the top 4 with 2 more as bottom pairing we'd have a scenario that could end up a disaster. There are a # of those available as UFAs so Stone, MDZ or Franson would fit the bill depending on the $s/term but there are lesser lights like Postma or older guys like Oduya/Hainsley we do on a short term, bonus laden contract as insurance.

[Flames Defense]

5 hours ago, phoenix66 said:

LOL.. i forgot about this 

and you know what ?.. Good for him

 

I'm not a lover of cheap shots , and God knows Sid has done his share of whining , moaning , diving etc..   but to see what these top players put up with , with literally no recourse to the offender , if the league is going to take away the ability for players to police themselves,  They have to start doing this more .

 

We'll see if they really do crack down on the slashing next year  or not.. but even if they do , it's still likely back to open season in the playoffs .

 

When i see a guy like Kesler, turtle and duck everybody so that he can have a swordfight with Frolik, its unfortunately the only answer. 

The 2 high-lighted seem opposites.

That wasn't the 1st time Crosby speared a guy in the yi-yis. It seems to be his go-to these days.

I remember 1 game where a player had a Pen down after a fight & was just sort of sitting on him waiting for the ref to come escort them to to box when Cindy skated by behind & gave that player a hard spear to the crotch. That was after a set to that had nothing to do with Crosby.

3rd highlight: How do you justify Crosby's slash to Melhot that cost him his finger tip? Is slashing just bad when it happens to a star forward or is it equally bad when "The face of the League" does it?  The slashes Gaudreau gets take him off his game but haven't cost him a digit.

 

I always saw Malkin as the slew-footing weasel but @ least he gained a little respect from me when he dropped the gloves with Wheeler & took his beating like a man. Crosby would have run crying to the refs & then jabbed Wheeler in the nether region 1st chance he had.

 

If the NHL really wanted to take the dirty out of the game recind the instigator penalty. Penalize the "Sideshow Bob" fights between designated 3 minute or under  heavyweights that don't play a full shift but allow a Ferland to show someone that slashes Gaudreau that he finds that unacceptable & give him the what for without getting the extra minutes & probable suspension. I think it was Clark Gilles (a more than secent player himself) that on the Isles dynasty skated up to a player on the opposing team (Boston if memory serves me) & told him that unless they laid off the dirty stuff on Bossy (clean checks were fine) he was going to drag their star to center ice & beat him to a pulp. If it happened a 2nd time he'd do the same with the 2nd best. The word went to the bench & Bossy wasn't recieving cheap shots anymore.

[Goaltending]

45 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

Agreed, but it's the coaches job to get through to that player . What happens when a head coach loses the room?  he gets fired

 

on the flip side, always willing to look at both options.. maybe they've just given him 7 straight goalies that wouldn't listen to him , hence the mystery as to why they gave up on some like Ortio.

On the other hand the player has to be open to constructive critisim. I know Travis Zajak @ 32 is still working out @ a local training facility & open to ideas to improve.

Contrast that with Yakupov's reported attitude of his skill getting him this far so why bother listening to coaches.

 

There are even those that think if a coach wasn't a great player he has nothing to teach. Yet many depth players spend their time of the bench observing both the coach's decissions (their coach & those on other teams) in specific circumstances & what works. Real students of the game & often better coachs that the 1s logging big minutes.

 

You can only teach those open to learning. A closed mind is just that.

[Goaltending]

5 hours ago, AlbertaBoy12 said:

Im curious why we would want to see raanta or grubauer here at the cost of #16, id be ok with using the #16 pick to acquire a top 4 d man but to acquire another goalie, when  we already have parsons and gillies coming, I think we should pass. I would have taken a stab at one of those two for the same deal we got smith for, but for a first rounder and probably more which it sounds like was the asking price ill take a pass.

I would have gone as high as pick #16 for Grubauer but now it's moot as BT has hitched his wagon to Smith. Hopefully he made the right choice.

[Goaltending]

20 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

True.. but he was also UFA

Anderson for example , got a 1st, 2nd and basically Bernier

 

Now imagine if you will, that same scenario that the league is forcing Anaheim to outbid Toronto to keep that player .. thats the position McPhee is putting teams like NYR in .

NYR want to keep Raanta?  they have to outbid the teams that are calling him to pick Raanta and trade him to them 

I'll use Dumba as an example. Say the Wild offer their 1st to take anyone else & the Jets offer a higher 1st (or a 2nd & a forward deemed ready) Vegas will weigh that against the player left from Minny & that 1st vs the Jets offer.

 

[Goaltending]

8 minutes ago, jaybooitt19 said:

Wow JJ,

You just made my day by blessing me with the knowledge that I can ignore you from this point forward. I will no longer have to read about how awful this team's management/scouting/goaltending/goaltendingcoach/GM/head coach/assistant coaches/AHL coaches are. Your constant negativity will not be missed. Good luck in your future endeavours as the greatest GM in the history of the Calgary Flames. 

JJ actually provides a good counterpoint when others get a little too gung-ho. I've had a lot of arguements with him but value his viewpoint since I'm not of the ilk where I see every draft selection/trade addition/UFA signing as the last piece to a dynasty Edmonton style.

Like him I do post unpopular views when dissapointed by moves made or I think a prospect/players is being over-rated by other fans.

If you want all "Rah Rah, Go Flames" (& I usually do the Go Flames every game day) you might want to use the ignore feature on me as well. There isn't discussion without opposing views.

[Goaltending]

BTW, does anyone else remember that Mike Smith's best years were behind a Phoenix team that made Ilya Bryzgalov look great?

 

Sorry. I'm just disappointed this is the best BT could do.

[Goaltending]

26 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Very few goalie are waiver exempt.  Vegas may not choose more than one if they are available.  

The teams that lost goalies aren't going to turn around and trade with Vegas for a goalie.  They could have done that initially.

Nobody is going to trade for Mrazek to be a backup.  They are also not going to break the bank if they have internal options.  Worse case they sign a guy like Elliott or Mason.

 

The big loser is the team that gets stuck with more than 3 waiver eligible goalies come October.

McPhee has probably guaged the interest in various goalies now & has an idea of the return. For instance, Jets & Flyers both protected a guy they see as part of the future but will need someone to at least tandem (or possibly start ahead of him) with him for a few years. If that happens to be a young 1 like Grubauer Wpg. & Philly both have the assets to make it happen & both probably have a 2nd choice if the 1st is kept or they are out bid.

So LV could very well take 5 goalies, trade 2 of Gruabauer, Raanta or Mrazek & use the other as a backup. The 5th will be easy enough to trade somewhere as @ least some of the teams that lost their b/u won't have 1 ready to go & Arizona no longer even has a starter. (Flyers might even opt for 2 or add 1& bring Mason back as Stolarz is still a bit raw. That's true even if Neuvirth isn't selected as he could be flipped to a team wanting a reasonably priced b/u if it improves the net situation. He'd be a ood acquisition for the Flames as insurance behind Smith actually. )

[Goaltending]

50 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

The other thing to think about too, is that after the expansion draft we have Philly and Winnipeg to bid against for the likes of Raanta and Grubauer, I don't think either the Rangers or Washington were too eager to trade their backups prior to the expansion draft.

Caps are hoping LV takes Nate Schmidt (a decent 4/5 D) or Brett Connolly (RW) instead of Grubauer.

There will be lots of 4/5 D & oodles of wingers available to Vegas but few ready/almost ready for prime time backups so McPhee will likely select Grubauer & either use MAF as the tandem until he's proved ready (like I hoped we could with Mason as the other) or get a better D or forward other teams protected or a package of picks/prospects.

Jets are still sold on Hellebuyck & Flyers on Stolarz but BT missed the window to get him in a reasonable trade. Now either Chevy &/or Hex will swoop in & both have more & better assets in the way of prospects & picks. I have a feeling someone will pay big time.

[Goaltending]

48 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

I just don't know what to say.  When it was reported that the asking price for Smith was high, I chuckled.  Choke on him.

BT seems to have a habit of paying Arizona whatever they want in a trade.  

I'm guessing that BT had discussed the situation with Hickey, and had some inkling that he was going to go UFA next year.

Or perhaps there is a hidden handshake for part 2 of this deal.  Brouwer for Reider?  Stajan for Schenn?  Bouma for Duclair?

 

I'm annoyed at losing a D prospect for a old goalie.  Had this been a trade for Grubauer or Raanta, I would have been happier.

The conditional 2nd is whatever.  Hope he has to play x number of games to achieve that. 

 

Bottom line is that this is no better than signing Elliott for a 3rd or Mason for just cash.  Unless Smith is the 1a/1b guy to mentor Raanta or Grubauer.

I get the familiary with the Coyotes roster but do we really want to become the northern version?

 

I would have happily gived up that package for Grubauer (maybe a bit less for Raanta) but unless Vegas selects Grubauer that's out the window & if they do the price likely higher. As you said Elliott was less acquisition cost & Mason just the contract. I expect 1 or both signing @ a cap hit =/< 4.25.

 

I guess Smith is marginally better than starting with 2 backups but it sure looks like we're going with hope, a wing & a prayer in goal again. Given Smith's age I hope the backup isn't some bargain bin career backup. Given the lack of demand for possible starters in the league maybe bring in Pavalev @ 2-2.5 since he was a decent (not great) starter & good team guy that didn't even moan when sent to the AHL for Chevy's ill-fated gamble.

 

I guess I'm disappointed because the thought of Grubauer & Mason as a tandem fighting for starts (both are proud & want starts) caused great hope. For that with Grubauer it was the fact he's only 25 & Mason because I saw how he worked well with Neuvirth (helping him try to be better like an extra coach).

 

 

[Goaltending]

5 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

Agreed.. but personally , I'd give our #16 for either of those 2 (Raanta, Grubauer)  both young, for Goalies.. either have #1 potential 

Same here.

We have high hopes for our young goalies (seems even more so than the other prospects) but really how well they translate to the NHL is rolling the dice.

[Goaltending]

4 minutes ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

EDIT:  TSN is showing a 5.667 mil hit.  NHL numbers.com shoes 5 mil flat. the hockey news shows 4.25 mil.   So take ant of my calculations with a grain of salt.

Capfriendly is showing him on our roster @ 4.25. Makes sense as 5.667 x 75% = 4.25. Arizona retains 1.417.

[Goaltending]

So 2 years of Smith @ 4.25 for conditional 2nd, Hickey & rights to C Johnson (so Coyotes have someone to expose).

 

Why BT? If the idea is still to tandem a Grubauer/Raanta with a vet Mason/Elliott were there for free.

 

I'm not much liking what I'm seeing as the idea looks more like we'll go with Smith as the starter & a cheap b/u (UFA or promote 1 of the kids too soon).

[Goaltending]

3 minutes ago, AlbertaBoy12 said:

Apparantly bob mckenzie reporting ari retains 25% of smith for hickey and conditional 3rd rounder....

Sounds like a done deal just awaiting league approval.

 

BTW, I started a thread to keep track of non Flames related pre ED trades.

 

[Goaltending]

2 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

I get the ability , but you cant be heavily involved in a rivalry like that , and be open to playing there .. he could probably kiss any future recognition (jersey , awards etc) goodbye if he accepted that trade.. if hes really the Team Guy  we hear about , they are on his No Trade for sure , he'd likely rather play in LV

I still remember Penguin fans roasting Jagr for signing there ..Not sure MAF wants to poke that bear or not 

Did Streit have a NTC?.. probably wasnt his 1st choice..

After being bought out due to the new CBA John LeClair signed with the Pengies which surprised many. The Bruins & Leafs were after him so were seen as most likely.  It always seemed he hated them but so it goes.

LOL @ Pengie fans since they thought  Jagr signing with them was a foregone conclussion. They overlooked that his leaving wasn't under great circumstances since he was part of the purge when the decision was made to tank for years to draft a surrounding cast & then Crosby. Of course few of those "life long" fans followed the Pens during their years of deliberate tanking.

 

Streit didn't have a NTC but nobody figued he'd ever have need due to his age.

[Goaltending]

5 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

Not necessarily a bad thing. Read more than a few people who think Vegas wants Fleury to stay, not as trade bait. 

 

Vegas could be looking at a tandem of Fleury and Grubaeur for example. Veteran starters who gives them a chance to win every night plus a young guy in behind they can start giving starts too. Not to mention still take someone like Raanta for trade bait.

 

 

That's the part that worries me so I hope BT is proactive in trading for Grubauer's rights before Vegas gets a chance to select him. Grubauer is 25 so could become a starter very soon.

Raanta is 28 (1 year younger than Mason who has usually been a starter) & always a backup in NA (including in the AHL) so I wouldn't bank on him pulling a Tim Thomas.

 

I'm willing to give up good assets for Grubauer who could well be the starter for many years & tandem him with a more proven 1 like Mason as insurance while he transitions to the heavier work load.

With Raanta I have doubts he can make that jump so see the odds as more likely he fills the role of backup as usual. If we bank on him repeating the success of former Rags backup we should remember that Talbot was only 27 & had been on NHL sized ice all his life while having a 50/50 record in NHL playoffs. Raanta was good in the Finnish league with a high of 45 games but has never hit that # in a year even when that season was split between the NHL & AHL & never won in NHL playoffs. I wouldn't give much for 1 year of him as backups come pretty cheap.

[Goaltending]

6 hours ago, phoenix66 said:

now this is one of the funniest ones I've seen yet ...

 

https://www.hockeyfeed.com/nhl-news/rumor-major-plot-twists-expected-in-the-marc-andre-fleury-s-case

 

If Calgary is supposedly on MAF's no trade list , I almost Guarantee that Philly is ..

It's not that far fetched. Although cross state rivals the list of players that played for both francises is long.

There are seldom direct trades (although those aren't unheard of) but even last TD Streit went from the Flyers to the Pengies via TB.

 

I personally don't want Fleury but the Flyers usually have Pittsburgh's # during the season & having MAF in net for those wins (especially in their own barn) would drive those pseudo fans nuts (a short drive btw ).

[Goaltending]

4 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

Have to agree. I can't imagine the Flames have, or are prepapred to give up, the amount of assets it would take to get both MAF and Raanta.

 

 

That's not a very good standard then for an "average" goalie. Crawford is one of the top 10 netminders in the league right now and has been for several seasons.

 

I thikn you are probably going to give up more assets for Raanta then you would MAF. MAF needs to be dealt and carries a cap hit/situation that few teams can take. Raanta doesn't and just about every team in the league could acquire him if they wanted to. I think he's probably going to cost more to be honest. 

Although Raanta is 1 year away from UFA he's a cheap test drive @ $1 million. But I've got a hunch the Rags will try to steer LV toward a more expense contract. How I don't know as their prospect pool is weak & they have no 2nd or 3rd this year. But you're right the ask from the Rags will be high.

I'm bigger on Grubauer (3 years younger & RFA so we'd be trading for rights only). The Caps have no picks in the 1st 3 rounds so ideally I'd like to offer picks but other than our 1st we're in the same boat. Carolina, NJ, TB & Detroit seem to be flush with 2nds & 3rds so maybe we could trade down for 2 picks & use 1 to acquire his rights.