travel_dude
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Everything posted by travel_dude
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Mikko Koskinen was the goalie.
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That seems to be where some mock drafts put him. Toronto needs less draft picks and more NHL players unless they want to follow the Oilers or BJ's method of competing in the NHL.
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I think that it really depends on what we can offer to them. It's not like there will be many trading partners this summer. If (a big if) the expansion is set for 2017, there will be a few teams in peril of losing a goalie for nothing. Anaheim has cap issues to deal with as well. They have 4 RFAs that they really want to keep. plus Andersen. Sure, they can let a few pending UFA's walk, but they still need to ice a team. They would be better off taking Ortio as part of the payment (haha) as he would be a cheap re-sign.
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We drafted goalies, but they never developed to plan. All were smaller guys until Gillies and MacDonald. Ok, so now we have two in the pipeline that can be developed right, since they have the things needed to be a NHL goalie these days. Fine, but that's years away. I am ok with finding a goalie in FA, assuming they have been scouted well enough to know what they really are. Reimer seems about the same as Bernier on a Leafs team. He may be the best option available this summer. My preference would be to get Andersen, assuming the cost is realistic. He has shown to be a starter and is still young enough to last many years. After that, I would look at Vasilevskiy. Tampa still has another guy waiting in the wings. They have cap issues and need to sign some players. Perhaps we can help them out there too. So we send em Ortio and some pieces for Vasilevskiy and Killorn. Yes, it needs to be a good offer, but it helps their cap. Ortio is insurance in case Gudlevskis isn't ready for the NHL.
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Sharks traded a 1st and a prospect for Jones. We might have beat the Oilers for Talbot, but not likely the Sharks for Jones.
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There were reports that he was in on both Jones and Talbot. Talbot was a relatively cheap deal, though 3 picks seems like a lot, especially after trading for Hammy. It would have decimated our draft.
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Ramo and Hiller are examples of ok goalies. Hiller never returned to his previous level of goaltending after the vertigo. By age, Ramo should have some of his best years left. Hiller declined so quickly, it may be 100% mental. Without stellar goaltending, Tampa and STL are middle pack teams. Probably good enough to make the playoffs with average goaltending. Ottawa? When did I mention them? Since you speak of them, they finished at 85 points with average goaltending. They had 9 players that scored 10 or more goals. They had 5 players that scored more than 50 points.
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If you can't see a goalie 28-34 being in their prime, then I don't know what to say. Very few are at that stage when they are 22-24. Bishop, Andersen, Elliott, etc. are the types of goalies that turn an average team into a contender. Think for a minute what the 2nd round of the playoffs might have been with something other than a washed up goalie and a average goalie. I digress. Is lack of development on the Flames or was it bad choices? Irving Ortio Brossoit Of those, Ortio is the only one with more than 10 games. That is the number of goalies we have drafted in 10 years. No, I haven't included Gillies and MacDonald, since they are in the early stages. What has Ortio been doing in the last three years to prove he is a NHL goalie? Playing just ok in the AHL. Check. Playing good or bad in NHL games. Check. I don't see how he earned a backup job on middling results at the NHL level and similar results in the AHL.
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There's a big difference between signing an aging goalie (Hiller, Smith, etc) vs signing a great goalie still in his prime (Bishop, Andersen, Allen, Elliott, lesser extent MAF). Those kinds of signings give the team the best chance to be a contender, for now and likely the next 5 years. If they still ended up being a middle of the pack team, then goaltending is not the issue. I'm not sure why you keep harping on goalie development on the Flames. Ortio has never shown consistent numbers in the AHL. His absolute best year was a .926 in 2013/14. He got 8 starts with the Flames. IIRC, he was only sent to the Aces because of a slow start in the AHL. Maybe it was having Berra and Ramo and McDonald. What I am getting at is that he wasn't good enough before that to project as a top goalie. How is that the Flames fault? He just turned 25. At 22 he came off a good AHL season and posted middling results. He got the call to the Flames on a emergency basis and was returned when that was over.
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Yes, there is a huge difference between Ramo and Quick. The obvious things are wins, SA% and GAA. You need to also look beyond the obvious stats. 5v5 SA%, 5v4 SA%. High-danger, low-danger, etc. I think we agree that a great goalie is one of the biggest needs of any team.
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My point was that outstanding goaltending is absolutely required in the NHL. The Kipper years were mostly average teams. We have a lot now that Kipper teams didn't, so I'm not worried about the goalie masking the problem.
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We lacked a goalie to make the saves we needed when we needed them. With just average goaltending in 2014/15, we made the playoffs. Do you want a goalie that exposes every thing wrong with your team, or do you want one that can help you win when you experience some problems? We have a good offensive team. We had some hiccups on defense, but have a good base there. Secondary scoring dried up a lot, but that is fixable. It's not like the Kipper years where we knew we lacked much of a team. Monahan is the best center we had since the Iggy trade. Our biggest problems are goaltending and special teams. The first one helps improve the PK. Better special team coaching will improve the PP and PK.
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So, are you willing to wait until Johnny and Monahan are in the latter stages of their "prime" for a goalie? Suppose Ortio and Gillies are not ready after 3 years. By that, I mean they aren't good enough yet to play in the NHL. I don't hear any solutions coming from you in the above. How do you propose getting the best? Who are you talking about? Do we have the assets to get it in trade? Or are you talking about finding the best drafted player and developing them? That's great. In 3-5 years we may have that player. Or maybe we are still drafting to fill that need. What about now? Are you advocating using Ortio as the starter or just picking up a random starter just to fill the position, good, bad or ugly.
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I think that, while it would be nice just to get a guy for 3 years until Gillies or MacDonald are ready, you have to look longer term than that. If the scouts/goalie coach/BT think that Reimer could be that gut, then sign him for 3 and extend after that. If they think MAF can be the guy for 3-5 years, then go after him. Vasilevskiy is risky, since his body of work is small. He looks good now, but can he take the reins for 3 years minimum? Not sure. Bishop looks like he could be the guy for years to come. Same goes for Andersen. Others, I am not sure about. I have no problem if we are spending $7m on a goalie for years to come. That would mean he is a league leader. It pushes Gillies to 5 years to be the next starter, which is reasonable. If he peaks sooner, then we have a top goalie as a trade chip.
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IF you can't afford $5.7m for a goalie, then you have a problem in this league. MAF may not be the best goalie that we could deal for, but he may be the cheapest in trade. Reimer is not going to cost as much, but I can't tell you if he is any answer. Huge risk. At least with MAF, you are getting a brand name, not yellow label. If you need to trade him, you get something back. Reimer would be worth next to nothing if you needed to trade him.
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I think adding two teams at the same time would increase the cap by too much. Also, if you add two, one is going to be from the East and one from the West, so you are unbalanced anyway. If Quebec City is announced, you are going to have to move a team back to the Western Conference.
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He has 2 more years in college available to him. Like any other NCAA player, he would have until August 15th of his senior year to sign, or his last year in college. I meant his ceiling as a NHL player, not his projected ceiling. Kylington has already shown elite skating. Perhaps I haven't had as much opportunity to see Hickey play. What I saw in WJC was not something I was that happy with. I was a bit more impressed with Kylington in limited NHL exposure. Andersson is anyone's guess at this moment. His biggest knock is defense, followed by skating. Those are coachable.
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It's a little hard to predict ceilings for any of the three D prospects. One had a good 2nd season in the OHL, and is one of the more offensively minded prospects we have. His defense is said to be average right now. Another came out of the Euro leagues and had a rough start in a pro league as a 18 year old. Another had a rough 2nd season in the NCAA. Obviously, my preference is to hang onto all three and see who shakes out. But if it came down to 6th overall or Hickey, I would lean towards giving up Hickey.
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Depends how many games he has in the playoffs. He looks good, but not a world beater. I suggest Hickey because I think he has been passed by Andersson and Kylington. Also, I just don't want to give up the 6th overall. If he could be had excluding any of those, perfect.
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The + depends on what they want/need. I would add Hickey, if that's what they wanted. Or a forward prospect not named Shinkaruk or Poirier or Janko. The 6th overall is not on the table, not for just a goalie.
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Just throwing it out there.... Would there be any interest at all in trading MacDonald + for Vasilevskiy? This is, of course, assuming an expansion draft in 2017. Bishop has to be protected (NMC), so they can't also protect Vasilevskiy. MacDonald may not be in the same class (or even close), but he does get them something exempt from the draft. The + would have to be something interesting, but there is not a lot of teams that need a starter this season.
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We will get something that makes us better. You can't just assume that all will be fine with Ortio and Gillies. There is a possibility that neither will make it. I hope they both do, but you have to manage the risk.
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Chimera and Beagle are two players that can bring it. They are infinitely better than Bollig. I'm not sure how long Chimera can play at that level. 37 and still productive? Fiddler's value is in his faceoff ability. If you picked up Chimera, Fiddler, and Beagle, you would need to jetison Stajan, Bouma and Bollig.
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I don't think there is any chance that we don't get a 2-3 year "answer" this year. If the expansion is announced, I think they protect the new goalie. It's going to cost us something. I think there is still some doubt about Gillies being subject to being claimed. Two years experience? I don't know that 7 games qualifies as a year. It's hard to justify that interpretation if you have to expose 25% of your roster money and protect NMC. I think the GM's will seek to alter those rules a bit.
