travel_dude

Somebody will overpay for Kuemper. Likely Toronto. EDM doesn't have the cap to make a great offer. They may try, but don't see it happening. Too logical.

Well that trade would need to occur this afternoon. Eklund talking about it, so you know it will never happen. He's also suggesting that Philly trade for his rights. BT isn't that nimble when it comes to big trades, they take a lot of time it seems. So, I agree, the Tkachuk trade won't happen today. If Tkachuk merely signs a 1 year deal, then he is going to be traded anywhere. Highest bidder.

It's pure speculation as to what the offer actually was. People throw around $9.5M like it was published in CapFriendly. It's a guess. So, significant could mean anything. It could be $8.5M with all but $1M paid as a bonus. It could be $14M in Y1 and 2, but average out a lot less. Insulting to me would be $8.5M x 8. Sure, it's just an initial offer, but low-balling isn't a great strategy. Point is we just don't know.

I think Monahan realizes that he stands a better chance at playing above the 4th line by restarting his career elsewhere. It's not just about getting back on track for a year, it's about proving that you are worth another decent contract offer. His last two years here have done nothing to enhance that. Playing with Lucic didn't exactly help.

Legacy may be an important factor. It's really anyone's guess what the offer was. They have already said they will move heaven and earth to sign him. Gross isn't going to let Johnny talk to BT at this point. He has to be the go-between, so BT reaching out to Johnny's camp just means contacting Gross. And Gross has a long memory. He remembers how his client blinked the last time. And that could still happen, but it will still be Gross doing the talking.

For sure. Two sides to the negotiation. Perhaps it's a bit of posturing due to being less than what they expected to be a strong offer. It's not chump change, but BT talks about him having a legacy.

Well, if that's what they told him, it was wrong to do. Of course it's true, but that's not his problem. Wasted picks for Hamonic. Poor draft choices and buy outs.

I think it's an estimate, not an informed source. But, if true I think it was too low. $10M should have been the floor. At least then he feels like his offer is at least as good as Marner's. Yeah, I know it's negotiating, but it's not always the best strategy to come in low. 10 still gives you room, and if you think he should be the face of the franchise, then pay the face. $80M is harder to come close to on 7 years. Panarin level. Tkachuk is a different beast. Maybe he wants 5 years. Should get less than Guadreau. Just my opinion.

Unfortunately, it's kinda the going rate. I wouldn't want to pay that much myself. Might be able to get the same offense from a 3rd pair guy, with less toughness, for around $900k.

So, are you suggesting that Matthews and McDavid will see their points drop as well? The league has changed. They are making it easier to score that many goals. Minor tweaks to the rules. Goalies not relying on big pads as much. The good ones still stop a lot, but there are only so many of those. Really this is the first full season in years, so we see goals up.

You mean with Tkachuk?

I would be willing to send them a pick to help out their cap. Doesn't allow them to sign Kane, so all is good. Backs for Pooly is an overpay on our part. He's barely worth Dube. And while I would entertain that trade (Dube), I don't know if it's the best idea. Yes, Pooly is far better than what he is doing there. Has not had a good coach and his team just chooses to play around him. He's supposedly good without the puck (defense). He's got a good shot on the rush and a good one-timer. The only thing is that we have a lot of potential RW and RHS.

D by committee to replace an aging vet is one thing. For sure, if we replace JH with Kadri and Forsberg we would have more scoring and likely a better team. That's also kinda the point, we need at least one comp player to replace him. And we have to delve into FA to do it, since we lost via FA. If we lose JH, then we have to have a serious conversation about Tkachuk. Is he what we need? We are down to Lindholm and Backlund as our two top C. Monahan dropped to an after thought. Give Backs credit for stepping up, but you can only hope he stays competitive longer than a couple of years. Here we are again. EDIT: Yes, I know the total for Kadri and Forsberg would be about $8M more than just Johnny.

Any way you slice it, we lose in the 30-40 goal and 100 point range. That takes us from 6th in scoring to 16th. And that's not even considering the quality of passes coming from Gaudreau. Lets just say we plug in Mangiapane, who is next up in scoring and points. He might continue to score 35 but how does he contribute to Tkachuk and Lindholm's scoring. He's more of a finisher. All you need to do is look at a dozen of those guy's goals. Without even really looking hard, you see passes to the slot. Who replaces that? I get the opposite argument. It's true as well, but you can't take away 75 assists and expect the same. Lindholm had a great season, but his assist rate was half of Gaudreau's. Bottom line is if we lose JH to FA, we have to pay about $8M to get back some of his impact. Whether that makes us still a contender or not is anyone's guess.

There is some speculation that BT will ask the agent to provide some kind of response this week. There is some risk to letting other teams talk to him. Might work or backfire. Does that send a message that we are giving up and will trade his rights?

His numbers suggest that he's about as good as Jarnkrok. He's coming off a fairly big contract for that amount of offense. The age is right, but his best season (71 games) he scored 14 goals. Are you thinking to pay him close to what Mangiapane will get?

I could be wrong, but wasn't it 80.5 back then? Even if it wasn't, things have changed. We know that in about 3 or 4 years the cap will jump by more than usual. In that year, his % of cap will drop. I don't know one way or the other if the money part is the reason for the delay. What I do know is last time, he settled. If this was their final offer, then fine. If it's a starting offer, then find out what they feel about it. 9.5 is fair but seems low. 10 is fair.

I know what it mean. Keep in mind that was also signed 3 years ago. Gaudreau is also coming off a deal where he was making $6.75M. So, while it's a great offer, he took a lesser deal for longer than Panarin did. 9.5m is 2.75M more for his last chance at huge money.

Panarin was signed several years ago, so there's that. From the reports (unconfirmed), he's been offered $9.5M. If true, that's undervaluing what he is worth to the team. If true, I get where BT is coming from; offer based on what else needs to be done. As a starting point sure. But, if you aren't willing to go to $10.5M over 8 years, then something is wrong. It doesn't matter what that works out to with other teams over 7. If he gets to FA, he's decided that the 8th year is not that important. And that could be because it's worth half of his best year, just to drive down the AAV. Or BT just went in with 9.5M every year. Think about it this way, the 8th year has a cap way higher than it is today. Why lock something in today for a year where you might get $10M even as a lesser player. He won't be Joe Thorton old, more like Pavelski age. Joe didn't sign as a discount when he turned 35.

Panarin got 11.6M from NY.

10.2 but no way in H E double hockey sticks 10.5? Yeah, that makes no sense. I get what you are saying but realistically, it's whether we can reach the number he's asking for. Assuming he's asking for it.

I don't know. Was Marner worth 10.9 over 6? Panarin worth 11.6 over 7? These were signed after lesser points scored by these players. Panarin was closer to Gaudreau's age.

The 8th year is the draw now, bit for the team (lower AAV) and the player (retirement package). Come FA, we will have to pay the same as the other teams bidding on him. I think we would prefer to pay 10x8 now than 11.5 x 7 on the 14th. Sometimes you have to bite the bullet. Offer him 11x8 on the 12th. Nobody comes close to that. He gets an extra $500k offer from us on the 14th, but a year less. TOR was able to offer a contending team and outbid everyone. He knew they would, from the pre-UFA discussions. None of those teams mentioned can offer big $$ plus are that close to contender status. BOS is fading. Philly is ways off and Debbies are not close.

So, just to circle back on this.... Was it confirmed that we chose not to sign him or that he chose not to sign? He signs and gets what? A signing bonus and a chance to play in the AHL? He goes back into the draft and maybe gets the same thing with a different team. But the chance at actually getting to play? Like any late pick, you see what they do and figure out how they can fit after dev.

What is the benefit to a team trading for his rights? An extra week to try to get a deal signed? They can essentially make the same pitch to him as a UFA. Essentially. They can't make a trade conditional on his signing there.