s4xon
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Posts posted by s4xon
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Ramo has been excellent this month. Have no problems going with him for the next few years. He still has some parts to his game that need work but hes been getting better and giving the team very stable goaltending. Gillies is another 3 years away, hes not going to be in the NHL anytime soon if hes developed properly. Ortio needs this year and maybe next year in the AHL before I think he will be ready for the NHL. He needs to play, no point in having him on the bench.
Ramo has been good, and he's the one I've expected to come out on top for my own reasons, but it's too early to say he's the guy for the next few years. If he has a decent season, and can solidify the starting position for next season, then I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. This team has been burned too many times by the 'best player not in the nhl' routine.
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From today's GDT
Ramo's save % last 6 games:
.963
.967
.880
.967
.955
1.00 (in relief, only 4 shots)
He's really turned it around.
Not bad for the former 'best goalie not playing in the NHL.' I'm willing to bet his numbers are better than the former 'other best goalie not playing in the NHL.'
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Hartley confirmed that Ramo gets the next start. It's nice to see as he definitely earned it after last game. It'll be interesting to see a few tandem games from the Finn.
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Gillies has two more years of college, but I will bet dollars to donuts he goes pro before then. And there is no way he goes to Alaska unless he shows up in camp with a pot belly and a smoke in his mouth.
As for the Brossoit trade, Brossoit has (like any decent goalie prospect) a 10 - 20% chance of being an NHL starter. If he makes it, good on him. But it was a good trade by Feaster regardless because, with Berra and Ramo getting NHL starts, and Ortio getting AHL starts, and Gillies quite possibly (probably IMO) here next year, Brossoit was not going to get the chance in the Flames organization.
If Brossoit becomes a backup, that does NOT make it a bad trade for the Flames
Not only that, but Smid was a decent pickup. He fit a need, he's been doing an amazing job thus far. I don't find myself cringing when he gets the puck, and for the most part his outlet pass is decent as well. He doesn't make many boneheaded moves. He's only a -1 in 6 games with the club. You can't ask for more when trading 2 depth prospects.
Brossoit would't have fit the plans going forward. Ramo being the key, and when he leaves or if he decides to stay.
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Front page updated. Brossoit out, and Roy in.....
Sooooo..now that brossoit is gone...where do we feel Roy fits in the pecking order? Personally I think this means jmac gets cut loose soon somehow..late round pick or something
Mac is still above Roy. Roy doesn't fit this team's needs going forward. He's struggling to keep up at the ECHL level, therefore retains last place. Mac can at least win NHL games.
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Fast forward to this season. The Flames are not expected to make the playoffs. They are off to a better start then expected. Mostly based on effort. We are hovering around 0.500. Goal is holding us back. Berra gets recalled to mixed and relatively low expectations. He posts a 0.955 SV% and wins his first game.
For clarity I think it is way to premature to say Berra is the next Kipper. But the similarities between the 03 and 13 Flames is uncanny. A rebuild is all about hope. Might as well cash some of it in right now. Hope he pulls another great start his next time up.
It would be nice if history would repeat itself here. Having another franchise goaltender fall in the laps of the Flames and their fans would be amazing, however, unrealistic...but anything can happen.
It would be nice if the Flames surprise and steal a playoff spot this season. If given one of our goaltenders (or both) can carry the load, I'm sure the forwards can get it done. It's been a pleasant surprise thus far, and I've notices a few more Flames fans coming out of the woodworks and snagging a place back on the bandwagon.
Most of everything I said starts with "It would be nice." and that is where I'm going to hold my expectations. If it happens, it'll be a fun ride, if not, there's no disappointment from this camp.
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I am pulling for Ramo. I really like his compete and he interviews well. He looks like a confident guy. If he can develop into the next Kipper,
However, I believe the combo of goaltending and D will be the reason why the Flames remain in the bottom 10 in the league for the season.
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Can I congratulate JMac on a well-played game tonight, or would that be seen as poor sportsmanship on my part?
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Actually I know the answer. A large part of my job is working with performance related data. I also have some formal education in statistics and metrics. You misuse data in incredibly misleading ways.
with all due respect, those are very outdated statistical concepts you're using. I also earn a living working with performance related data.
I'm not choosing sides here, but pretty much all occupations adopt statistical performance related data skills of some form or another. Whether you work at McDonalds and follow trends of fry sales or tally how much till theft there is after a nightly/weekly float count, or if you are the CEO of a major corporation and follow stock trend analysis.
However, JJ, statistical concepts are never outdated. They are evolved using those 'outdated' methods as a base.
They teach this in college/university statistics, of which I just finished this portion of my nursing degree last term.
Remember when you said that the best goaltender will get the playing time, "simple"?
That's Jmac right now and we all know it.
A concept that is outdated is the almighty 'assumption'.
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Or all Pens except Crosby so he can be the face of TC while the others take care of business.
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What? I meant the goalies the Flames didn't get...hence "the other guys"...
Now that you're out of context, ummm...
And I don't really hope for them to have bad years either...just in case.
Haha, just checking.
But in reality, hoping any player has a bad year, other than Kessel, or all the Canucks, isn't nice.
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We only have to look north to see what goaltending does for a rebuild...
I kinda wish management would get a little more desperate about it.
While I agree about Gillies, it's not the position I want to see us slide at and pray a saviour is coming.
Watching Lindback, Bishop and Bernier go elsewhere makes me scratch my head.
I hate to mention it, but Bobrovsky near single-handedly put Columbus on the map. Who saw that coming?
The move for Ramo, the subtler move for Berra, I don't know, it's all a little off the charts for me. Joey MacDonald picked up on waivers from Detroit for a "backup"... I don't know....it's weak.
The position is dire, no foresight to Kipper leaving, outside of Feaster's love-in for Ramo.
I hope the other guys I mentioned aren't good this year, because we were definitely in the market imho.
Hoping the current 'tenders the Flames have at this moment not having good years is a little shallow. Having an opinion that the Flames are in the market for a goalie isn't a reason to wish a bad season on any of the 3 backstoppers. Promising goalie prospects in the system or not.
So what if Ramo ends up playing lights out, and the development path he took in the KHL was just the ticket he needed? What then? We trade him because Feaster has some faith in the kid? Or because he's not your favorite?
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Did I not hear on the FAN this week that Feaster was unimpressed with JMac's conditioning? I can't find a link or anything, maybe I'm mistaken.
I've heard it too, although I can't find the source. But there is nothing that suggests Hartley is favoring Mac over Berra or Ramo. Ramo's played his way into the lead thus far IMO with only 3 goals in 2 games. All on the PK.
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It's becoming clear that they want Ramo to be the backup, Berra to go to the AHL, and Jmac to be the starter.
Maybe in your mind, but there has been no indication from Hartley that this is the case.
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List updated on first post.
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Kipper was not as unknown as you think. He was a back to back AHL all star and initially faired pretty well at the NHL level but he struggled to take the reins and eventually lost his job. To me kipper was your classic example of a change of scenario type of player not one that was picked up out of nowhere. I don't think the flames were expecting the level they got but I think they expected a decent starting goalie when they made that move because he had already proven the talent was there and I think Ramo is fair more of a wild card than kipper was when he was traded because at least kipper has North American success where Ramo has had none, not even in the AHL. Not saying that I think that means Ramo will fail just I don't think the two sides are very comparable.
This is more of a comparison of the Flames during Kip's era vs. the Flames in the upcoming Ramo era and what assets/tools Ramo has to work with vs what he won't have that Kipper had for success.
This wasn't a comparison of the two goalies themselves as individuals, or their past achievements.
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^ For some reason, I was having a nice little brainstorm session this morning about Ramo as I was snoozing in and out of consciousness. It's wierd that this is when my mind is most clear.
Question: Are the Flames setting Ramo up for failure?
Lets take a look.
- When the Flames acquired Ramo, they expected him to come over and play the backup role behind Kipper and learn a thing or three from the best. He was to decrease the workload of our franchise ace by shouldering a third of the games in a season. Eventually allowing Karri to take the reins and secure the number 1 starting position when Kip retired.
- They signed Ramo to a 2 year deal, and expect him to compete on NA ice like it was second nature given his past experience with playing on smaller ice previously.
- Most are hoping history repeats itself and he evolves into what was once a phenomenon in Kipper; a guy who was looked at as a mere backup, a lowly regarded underdog, and became a franchise legend.
Let's see what factors Kipper had to work with in his era vs what factors Ramo has to work with in his era:
Leadership (Captaincy)
- The biggest difference between the two eras is the fact that the Flames currently don't have a league wide star captain, Iginla. Yes they have a few up and coming names such as Baertschi, Monahan, and Gaudreau, but these aren't established names with 11 straight season of 30+ goals, none have the ability to enforce respect from the opposition with their fists (both fists being equally dangerous), and none have the leadership quality that sets them apart from about 95% of the league.
Defense
- Kipper Era - Regher in his prime was one of the hardest to play against in the league. He was responsible defensively, and he was a VERY heavy hitter. Phaneuf, ignoring his attitude, came out blazing in his first NHL season with 20 goals and 49 points in 82 games and didn't look back. His bomb from the point on the PP is something the Flames haven't been able to recoup since trading him. Boumeester, well we all know how much he got paid, but that is a moot point. We all know he was soft, again moot. J-Bo was never injured, he is still the reigning NHL ironman. His ability to minute munch with the top line talent in the league was a commodity most fans didn't even recognize, nor was defensive reliability. Mark "Jor" Giordano has been a consistent hard hitting and offensive defenceman...until this lockout shortened season. He made a name for himself with the team after not being drafted and coming from a much different development path.
- Ramo Era - The noteables on the current D ranks have Brodie as an up and coming regular. While not the kid is consistent, defensively responsible, and has one of the best breakout passes this team has seen in a decade. Offensively minded Wideman has shown to be a player to chip in to the scoreboard when needed and his defense hasn't been terrible to date, but we'll see in the next coming seasons. Gio is a crossover from the Kipper Era to now. Notable up and coming prospects are Sieloff, who most are hoping repeats the play of Regher with extremely hard hits, can hold his own in fights, and backs down from no one, and Wotherspoon, who is a very consistently steady and very solid stay at home D-man.
Coaching
- Kipper Era - Darryl Sutter left Feaster with a mess. Plain and simple. His drafting was horrendous, his trades not much better, and his ability to plan for the future seemed non-existent. However, this was Darryl the GM, not Darryl the head coach. Everyone can agree that D-Sutter is one of the best coaches to ever manage the bench in Calgary. He pulled a team together from nothing and pushed them all the way to the '04 Stanley Cup final (we all know the Flames actually won), and pushed this team into the playoffs year after year until he stepped down as coach and took the reins as GM on a full time basis. Sutter recently took a very similar gritty and hard hitting team in LA, turned their season around and led them to a Stanley Cup.
- Ramo Era - Bob Hartley came in as the Flames new head coach before the lockout was issued. His history dictates he is able to win. He won a Stanely cup in '01 with the Avalanche. Some would argue that on paper, the '01 Avs team was bound to win the cup regardless of who the coach was. During this past shortened season, we hadn't seen a consistent line from Hartley. Ever. We can argue that Hartley wasn't given an all star lineup, the team was broken, and hard decisions were made to find chemistry, but when we saw chemistry growing, he would confuse the masses and place such players as Comeau on the top line center position. Kipper struggled under Hartley's watch, but there were too many intangibles to say it was Hartleys fault. Kipper was injured, he struggled when Iginla and Bouw left, the team's coIt remains to be seen if he can utilize the younsters properly, form some lines with chemistry with the remaining vets, and play a style that doesn't allow 3 goals against per game meanwhile giving us some upbeat and offensive hockey.
The Core
- Kipper Era - Iginla, Kipper, Regher, Phaneuf, J-Bo, Gio - Gave the Flames a solid identity. Easily identifiable by the fanbase, by the media, and the rest of the league. A threat on paper. However, we all know there was no one available to center the best player the Flames have ever seen. We are left wondering what could have happened.
- Ramo Era - Cammalleri, Baertschi, Backlund, Brodie, Wideman, Gio - Not really a solid identity. Not so easily identifiable as some may contest some of these names and whether they belong or not, and not as much of a threat on paper either. Some of these names may not even be with the team within the next year. It's too early to say that one or two of the up and coming prospects will emerge as a sure fire number 1 star for the organization, but from what we see with the younger core and the up and coming prospects, it looks to be a shared burden amongst the ranks instead of a whole team's burden upon the shoulders of the ex-captain, Iginla.
Backup Goaltending
- Kipper Era - It's no secret that Kipper didn't have much to rely on in terms of a contigency plan. Nor did the Flames. Much like the lack of support from Iginla's missing top line center, the same can be said for Kipper's backup. Year after year we saw a new name emerge as the backup to the hot Fin goalie, but none established themselves to a point where they stayed, nor to the point where they could relieve Kipper of his over 70 game/season duties. The Flames outright had to play their best player, or they wouldn't have been competitive for as long as they had.
- Ramo Era - This seams to be a different outcome. The Flames recognized (finally) that they couldn't rely on Mikka Kiprussoff forever. After the acquisition of Karri, they acquired Reto Berra as an asset in the Bouwmeester trade. They have already established backup Joey MacDonald who stood out as last season's starting netminder. Since 2009 the Flames have drafted goaltenders Joni Ortio, 2011's Laurent Brossoit, and 2012's Jon Gillies who looks to project as the Flames future star if development remains steadfast. As there are many options to choose from, there seems to be an established backup in the works. But are any of these, including Karri Ramo, able to emerge as the team's backbone and retain the number 1 position? Still too many question marks until we see some regular season action.
What we see and know now...
- The young and bright eyed roster is going to have struggles; defensively, responsibly, and possibly even offensively (while I believe offensively will be the least of the team's worries).
- With not much defensive support projected, Ramo will be the last line of defense for the team and at times will have to try and steal wins when the team can't support him.
- The culture in the dressing room and around the fanbase certainly has changed for the better
- Kipper had a much more enticing core around him on paper.
- To date, the coaching seems more in favor of D-Sutter compared to Hartley, although we have only seen half a season with him.
so to re-visit the question above...
Are the Flames setting Karri Ramo up for failure?
- In my opinion, it's not fair to call him the next Kipper, nor to expect the same level of play from our elite Finnish legend from the past decade. We as fans and the Flames themselves need to garner their expectations.
- If Ramo does evolve into an elite goaltender, then the Flames are that much more ahead in the rebuild, and a new star with a new exciting era will most definitely be welcomed by the fans with open arms.
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Well they gave Ramo a 2 year roster contract so unlikely he would head back next year. Berra was only given an EL contract and 1 year.
Yeah, I'm referring to the possibility that Ramo implodes and runs back to the KHL after 1 season, the same as Cervenka. I'm sure the Flames wouldn't be opposed to him forfitting the last year of his contract if this were the case. I'm sure that is the reasoning for a 2 year deal.
I'm in the hopefuls camp that he solidifies himself as the Flames starter for the next while and is someone reliable between the pipes until the Gilles/Brossoit duo can step in.
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Normally I am not a big fan of the 'throw a bunch of stuff at the wall and hope something sticks' strategy. But goalies are unpredictable enough that it makes sense to add a few bullets to the gun.
The Flames don't have a good option for an NHL starting goalie. Relying on Ramo is too many eggs in too small of a basket. Berra gives them another option and there isn't anything wrong with that.
It isn't like we gave up the farm for him. He was an add on that came with a 1st round pick and Cundari.
Taylor wasn't an option for the NHL. It wasn't just Calgary that didn't want him. He is signed in the KHL now.
I would have prefer a mid 20's proven NHL starter with elite upside. But that isn't in the card. So muck on the wall it is.
At this present time, and the current rebuild situation, the current goaltending cards are the perfect opportunity to show your hand and earn the top 3 pick at the draft for the next couple seasons and reap the jackpot of some top talent. Am I suggesting the Flames are tanking for top talent? No, but the current goaltending roster options certainly parallel that mindset.
Ramo will come out and play his bag off, so will Mac and so will Berra, no doubt about it. But when it gets to the point where dissappointment sets in, we'll see who emerges as a leader between the pipes.
For all we know, Ramo could very well be the next Kipper, on the other hand, he could be headed back to the KHL in as early as a year.
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The next question would be....of course....why they would pick up a 26 year old goalie not ready for the NHL yet.
But that aside....maybe they'll have to loan him to another AHL club if his future is in North America.
Even with this, there will be Multiple goalies battling it out for a spot on the Heat.
Easy, he's "the other best goaltender not in the NHL."
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He might. Which is why I don't think it is impossible he will sign for a lower figure. I think it is a big assumption that he won't play in the NHL for less money then he is making in the KHL. For all we know he is willing to take a large pay cut to play here.
He may, but I am sticking to my guns on the 3 mil, 2 year deal. I don't see the term being longer than 2 years, because the Flames don't want their hands tied in case of a failed attempt. 3 mil doesn't hurt the Flames' bottom line (although I think it would be too much at this point) but it's what I see makes sense.
I wonder if there would be an out clause in order for him to go back to the KHL if there were to be a mutual parting after a year.
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Announcements of Ramo's contract and terms should be coming up. What are your contract predictions?
My guess is 3 mil for 2 years. It may seem high, but the Flames had to rip him away from the KHL.
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Strickland is pretty reliable. Plus a lot of other people are reporting on this as well (mostly due to Strickland breaking it, but still). Sounds like a done deal to me.
There's a source worthy of some trust.
Much better.~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hopefully no longer than 2 years. This team can't afford any more contracts that will bend the Franchise over in case of failure to produce (ala Stajan, Babchuk, Kotalik, etc.) And if there is an NTC or a NMC involved, I will seriously throw some sh*t.
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Not sure how legit of a source this is, but seeing as nothing can be official until July 5th anyways....I'll take it.
Seems the Flames brass have agreed to terms with Ramo on a multi-year deal. No details on the amount or duration. Let the fight for the crease commence: MacDonald, Berra, Ramo, Kipper(likely retiring, but still undecided).
Goaltending
in Flames Talk
Posted
I beg to differ. If given a chance with the right team, he'd flourish. As of late he's been pretty damn good between the pipes. Backstopping a team like Chicago would only inflate his numbers and elevate his game.
They went out and grabbed Labarbera from the Oilers because they are in need. Yeah Labarbera has experience, but I would rather Berra in net than Labarbera. The same for Khabi. He's younger, quicker, and add the fact he's a very good shootout goalie.
I'm not saying he'd fetch anything of value at the deadline, but I know for a fact he'd be given the same opportunity on more than one NHL team with goaltending woes this season. He's made headlines on more than one occasion. Once for save of the year candidate, and the other for a new NHL record which he earned on a bottom 5 team in the league. A little hasty to jump to that conclusion.