phoenix66
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Posts posted by phoenix66
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But Allen has been pro long enough that the blues have to make a choice to protect one of them. It does not matter about RFA status, it only matters whether they have 2 seasons of pro experience.
Its not about choice its about logistics. Any team can sign a UFA, INCLUDING YOU
so by protecting the RFA Allen, you have the best chance to keep both.
If they expose Elliot, and he gets picked, so what?..
I think you will see many UFA players not resign until after July 1 next year (with their original teams)
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Bollig: NO!!!!!
I like Kylington as a prospect. I think he has a lot of potential but is very raw, which is why he should stay in Stockton to get some more refinement. I hope BB doesn't want him playing with the big club now (outside of preseason or final game callup).
Stranger things have happened. Its not uncommon for forgotten players to suddenly appear and come to life under a new coach.
NOT predicting this,*** for all we know Mason Raymond could become a productive player next year.
I personally dont think Bollig has any surprises in him, if I had to predict, I think Engelland will become the surprise next year
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So who is going to be available if the expansion draft happens?
So my guess is:
Allen or Elliott
Fleury or Murray
Bishop or Vasilevsky?
I think that it will be Bishop and Fleury on the trading block and I don't know who the Blues prefer, Allen or Elliott?
As far as expansion draft goes,
Allen will be protected as he will be RFA, Elliot will be UFA
Fleury will be protected due to his NMC
Vasilevsky will be protected , as Bishop will be UFA
As far as trades?
Elliot would get traded over Allen
Fleury will get moved before Murray
Tampa is a coin toss..theyve already shown they are willing to let a star walk if it means possibky winning a cup, and as goid as vasilevsy has played, if Bishop were in net theyd have beaten the Pens by now. I think depending on their playoffs they ride both goalies right thru the end of next season. I dont believe either gets traded. If for some reason they HAVE to, it would be Vasilevsky
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Kane and Towes were up for new contracts and bowman got it done quickly. Our best players are waiting on BT to get it done and BT doesn't seem to think that it's an urgent matter. Out of anything towards BT that irks me the most is sign your best players now and quit waiting to get to them. Hes had 2 months to get it done. Throws money at useless players then makes his best players wait. I don't get it.
Which they signed in JULY of 2014.. so by your desire that means BT has almost a month and a half.. they also weren't coming off of Entry level deals.
BT has a history of getting great value on resigning players (hamilton , GIO, etc) so until I see otherwise, I have faith things are going as they should
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Ramo isn't even going to be ready for October.
I would be fine with signing Reimer on the cheap, for 2-3 years. His even strength SA% is well above Ramo's. Attempt to sign Enroth to the backup spot at about $1.5m. If not, bring back Ortio to the backup spot.
This is my plan b. I think there may be better options, but they may be out of reach due to trade demands.
Thats why I accounted for it when i said " will either take the top spot from Ramo or tandem with Ortio until Ramo is healthy."
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I think we get someone to fill in for a few years. Like you just said Phoenix, I am keeping my expectations low because we can't really afford a big money guy right now anyway.
I think we sign one to 4.5m?
I dont think even that. I could see Ramo signing a lesser deal due to his season and injury, and a guy like Jhonas Enroth getting signed for 2- 2.5
He made 1.25 in LA barely playing behind Quick. He wants to play. I wouldnt be upset with him. Buffalo only traded him cuz he was winning
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Thats exactly my point, that st louis team was contender material.It's a team game and a good goalie is only part of the puzzle.
I think when the dust settles we may find the end answer to be anti climactic. I fully expect that Ramo and Ortio will both be back, with a legitimate #1 capable body added to the mix (like a Talbot or a Jones type) and that body will either take the top spot from Ramo or tandem with Otio until Ramo is healthy.
I dont think we bring in the savior everybody (myself included) was envisioning.
I think the true window for other teams goalie panic is starting at next yesrs trade deadline. I could easily be wrong, but just my feeling
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All I'm saying in a whole is BT does bizarre things. He signs Hamilton the day after acquiring him. There was no rush to sign him he was an RFA as well.Then makes JG and SM wait it out until he gets to them. He gave Hamilton 6.5 mil with no problem. Hamilton had one good year.
We dont know hes making them wait. Hes good at not negotiating in the media. We dont know what talks theyve had, what level theyre at. They could announce deals tomorrow for all we know. Hes on record as working night and day in Russia.who knows what he was working on. Im sure its a priority cuz he needs those numbers before he can sign others or even kniw what his goalie options are.
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There is a difference between needing a goalie, and needing a Great goalie.
We needed a great goalie, since 2007, imho. Yeah, I said it. That, imho, is when Kipper peaked. Never popular on here, but his seasons were inconsistent since then. Especially in the playoffs.
Of those years, some we've needed a great goalie more than others.
I see no particular reason, to be honest, why next season is one of those years we need a great goalie.
But that time will come again.
I think to be honest, Kipper is a great example of how even a great goalie cant save you.
I think Ryan Miller is/was a great goalie...Buffalo sure didnt benefit, and St Louis did nothing in the playoffs.
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He looked good, is he some team's property now ?
technically NYI.. but he just re-upped with his KHL team for 2 years
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It should also be noted that a 3 goalie system is not the Kiss of death.. NYI did pretty good with it this year , all 3 goalies had pretty reasonable stats.
Yes, Halak is on record as saying he hated it, but it still functioned without their goalies tanking .
yes, Berube only had a handful of starts
so it comes back to , something else failed that scenario.. likely how they were used
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That seems to be where some mock drafts put him. Toronto needs less draft picks and more NHL players unless they want to follow the Oilers or BJ's method of competing in the NHL.
I can totally see it ..TO already has the top prize and their goalie cupboard is more bare than ours.. but Im ok with that , I actually want the Finn Veini Vehvilainen.. call me bias , but the Finns are a Goalie factory . and the last few high end Swedes have not really impressed me .
I think we may even be able to use one of our later 2nds to get him
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I agree that a NHL goalie is priority # 1 for this season.
If one or more of the three 2nd round picks are necessary to obtain one, use them.
If not, take the BPA.
Personally, I'm nervous about drafting a goalie in the Top 60, as the Flames don't have a great track record drafting goalies in the first 2 rounds:
Jason Muzzatti - 21st
Trevor Kidd - 11th
Evan Lindsay - 32nd
Brent Krahn - 9th
Andrei Medevev - 56th
Leland Irving - 26th
Mason McDonald - 34th (jury still out)
Then again, I'm not a GM or scout.
I actually still support the Trevor Kidd pick. He came in as everything he was billed to be. Legitimately took the job from Vernon. I blame Pierre Page for ruining him after that. Plus I belueve there was a car accident in there somewhere.
Yes, Medvedev had some serious weight issues, but the kid could stop a puck. He was a Craig Button pick and when Sutter came in we didnt even try to look at him again...he likely would have been a bust, but we'll never know.
Brent Krahn I think as well had a car accident , sonehow blew his knees out..he did have some promise otherwise.
But true, with an asterisk beside Kidd, our history has not been good
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MacDonald is eligible for the A/E next year, we also have Nick Schneider on his ELC for 2 more years. Kevin Poulin is RFA.
Add Gillies and Ortio, we're down to 2 if no moves are made and we let Poulin walk..
Ok cool I forgot about Schneider, youre right he will be on the farm next year. Poulin should be allowed to walk, he doesnt project. So that means we need our starter, and one other high end prospect on the farm.
Perfect time to take a gamble on a European free agent
Biggest thing is you need an nhl ready call up on the farm. Ideally I see McDonald and Schneider manning the E, mystery man and likely Ortio on the big club, and Gillies on the farm. We need to replace Poulin with that high end guy
Just a question: if goalie is a priority why would you not draft a quality prospect goalie ? I suppose it depends on two things, who is BPA come the time of the pick and if BT could use that particular pick in a deal to get a NHL goalie with some experience.
If we use our 3 2nd rounders I fully expect one to be. Barring a dropper from the 1st round would not surprise me if its at 35
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Does Murray even need to be protected? My understanding is 1st and 2nd year players are exempt. If so, the Pens can protect Fleury and keep both goalies.
Yep he just finished his 2nd complete pro season, so he'll be a 3rd year.
I take whst Rutherford said with a grain of salt..I mean whats he supposed to say? MAF has a NMC and if speculation is true they will be forced to protect him. If it came down to it I cant believe they dont keep Murray so they will need to trade MAF. If they expose Murray hes as good as gone.
I think Pittsburgh is top on the danger list to lose a goalie, so the best option to make a teade is with them
Anaheim has enough other players a team may take instead of their goalies, Tampa could choose to not sign Bishop til after the expansion draft and protect Vasilevsky.
Pittsburgh jumps out st me as the team that HAS to trade one.
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I think that it really depends on what we can offer to them. It's not like there will be many trading partners this summer. If (a big if) the expansion is set for 2017, there will be a few teams in peril of losing a goalie for nothing. Anaheim has cap issues to deal with as well. They have 4 RFAs that they really want to keep. plus Andersen. Sure, they can let a few pending UFA's walk, but they still need to ice a team.
They would be better off taking Ortio as part of the payment (haha) as he would be a cheap re-sign.
I think a few eastern teams will be looking. Toronto for sure, and if we are bidding against them no way we win. Carolina I can see looking, not sure how confident they are with lack, and to a much lesser degree Maybe Buffalo as well
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Ortio had all of 6 games in 2015. That is not enough to say he got us anywhere let alone to the 2nd round.
yes but without his wins we dont make the playoffs
The reason why coaches hate 3 goalies in camp or on the roster is practice time in nets. It is obvious that 3 goalies and only 2 nets is not the best of situations. Even an armchair GM can understand that simple math. Go ahead ask any coach in the league why 3 goalies do not work.. That is likely the answer you get.
So I see posters here trying to give BT a pass on this problem that he already admitted was not a good call. Some of you even want to give a pass to the goalies because 2 of them played better later in the year or when the games didn't count anymore.
They played poor because they didn't get in the ice time preseason because 3 of them were sharing 2 nets. All of them came out flat....
most training camps include more than 2 goalies..maybe not in full out battle for 2 spots, but most end up playing more than 2 in preseason
All 3 played very well in preseason ..but once the puck dropped in Vancouver , there should have been jobs defined.
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Those were the same three goalies we had the prior season. The ones that got us to the second round.
I would have preferred he brought on a Martin Jones or someone like that. But in terms of priorities spending his resources on Hamilton made sense. Great opportunity plus we had Hiller for another year and needed to see what we had in Ortio.
True , i dont believe having 3 goalies fight it out in camp was an issue, or a bad thing .. not starting the season with a defined 2 is where it unraveled
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We drafted goalies, but they never developed to plan. All were smaller guys until Gillies and MacDonald. Ok, so now we have two in the pipeline that can be developed right, since they have the things needed to be a NHL goalie these days. Fine, but that's years away.
I am ok with finding a goalie in FA, assuming they have been scouted well enough to know what they really are. Reimer seems about the same as Bernier on a Leafs team. He may be the best option available this summer.
My preference would be to get Andersen, assuming the cost is realistic. He has shown to be a starter and is still young enough to last many years. After that, I would look at Vasilevskiy. Tampa still has another guy waiting in the wings. They have cap issues and need to sign some players. Perhaps we can help them out there too. So we send em Ortio and some pieces for Vasilevskiy and Killorn. Yes, it needs to be a good offer, but it helps their cap. Ortio is insurance in case Gudlevskis isn't ready for the NHL.
I'm still of the opinion we cant get Andersen.. so long as Anahaeim controls where he goes, he goes as far away from them as they can send him .. but that being said, Kudos if we pull it off
I have a strong sense Reimer may be the perfect storm - he has enough knocks (not many games in a season .. never truly locking down a #1 spot..etc.. ) that he may need to sign a 1-2 yr deal and prove he can be a solid quality starter before cashing in . And if he does sign , it will be as a starter so he can do just that .
i think you can get him on a 1-2 yr 3-4M.. which is ideal for us
I like the fact he put up solid numbers on a bad team .. then only got better on a good team
Im really curious what Pittsburgh does too.. Rutherford comes out and says MAF isnt going enywhere , but if expansion hits, its likely one has to go .. and i really dont see Murray going anywhere.. im actually hoping MAF goes lights out for the Pens now, might make Murray available
I just feel , outside of signing Reimer, our #1 next year is gonna be one we didnt see coming ..much like we didnt see getting Hamilton coming either
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Sharks traded a 1st and a prospect for Jones. We might have beat the Oilers for Talbot, but not likely the Sharks for Jones.
thats what we're saying .. if not for the Hamilton trade , our first trumps San Jose's.. depending on the prospect , or 2 2nds may have done it
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I'd say more maybe 2-3 goalie seats.
Just so happens 2 are potentially at the very top.
I count at least 6 pro spots.. 2 each in Calgary, Stockton and Adirondack. Each of those spots should have a body you envision as having potential Calgary Starter upside. Stop signing the fillers. That doesn't include the ones you can leave in college, Junior and Europe.
not sure what Macdonald's status is next year , but assuming we resign Ortio, and Mac plays as well and we get a #1-- that leaves about 3 spots in our organization that needs a serious prospect
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Well, let me be blunt then.
We did nothing while Kipper was king but draft failures, acquire cheap crappy backups and never find a replacement.
He retires, we keep boardinging around, trying to do it on the cheap, trying to buy time, etc. etc.
MTL proved just how lousy the roster actually is when they lost Price.
LA could lose Quick, they had Bernier, they had Jones as understudies.
It's high time, Kipper's gone, he isn't coming back, we HAVE to get serious in net. Best goalie not in the NHL doesn't cut it anymore.
It has gotten beyond serious.
Now we'll bring in a Finn from the K....
No.
Find money, get a goalie.
I'm good with giving up a yr for that, next yr.
That'll be a total of 3, I'll give you a pass, years. The first 2 he inflicted on himself.
Treat the position seriously.
Reimer wants to be a starter, here's $3, do it then. Nothing over 2 yr deals, preferably 1, for most, not digging the availables list atm.
I've always been good with Vasilevsky, and after the "stick throwing incident", I like him even more.
Too funny with the analysts "you can't disrespect your players like that. They'll talk to him I'm sure".
Great emotion from Vasilevsky, I'm sure "the talk" went well.
see but again , Im not talking about bringing in goalies and saying " one of you will be our starter".. ala Ramo and Berra.part 2..no .. absolutely not
We still need a starter next year who is not a gamble .. I get that
But I'm also not a believer in having no competition throughout the organization either.
Like having Gillies in Stockton and just some guy to play when he needs a break. nope, how about some guy that wants the job too?
just suggesting a guy Like Koskinen (or another similar one)could be an upgrade to the backup position -- and if one does end up taking the job ? Great !
If we bring in a guy that takes Ortio's job ?.. oh well .. that just means we just got better at the position .. we have potentially 6 or more quality pro goalie positions open and right now im pretty sure we only have one filled (Gilies)
Fill the pipeline.. but fill it with competition
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There was no 1st rounder involved in the Talbot trade. It was a 2nd, 3rd & a swap of 7th rounders.
Calgary still ended up with 3 picks in the 2nd so 1 or both (or 1 & a decent prospect to make up for the pick being later than the Oilers might have turned the trick.
A flip of 7ths? Who cares.
No.
Going into camp with 3 good goalies might work but having 3 that aren't & hoping 1 might be isn't smart.
I stand corrected.. forgot, the oilers used their other 1st rounder to get reinhart
Our first would have definitely got it done (NYR wanted a 1st ).. but ya i could see BT being reluctant to have no picks in the 1st and 2nd rounds .. in hindsight , still not sure I'd do it.. that must be why he backed off
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There were reports that he was in on both Jones and Talbot. Talbot was a relatively cheap deal, though 3 picks seems like a lot, especially after trading for Hammy. It would have decimated our draft.
yup he was in on both but it would have needed the 1st rounder we traded for Hamilton.. obviously when that came up he jumped on it
he was apparently in on Ward too.. same style of deal we had in place for Ribiero .. the player and their 1st rounder to unload the contract.. i think Carolina themselves nixed it.. Ribiero not waiving his NTC killed the Phoenix one
Goaltending
in Flames Talk
Posted
Go check out the last one in 2000. 6 goalies chosen, only one was on the opening day roster. One was traded. The other 4 were free agents and went elsewhere.
Its no different than the many times we have seen teams trade a player at the TDL only to resign him in the offseason.
Just because you are letting a player hit July 1 doesn't make it harder to sign him. Negotiations have already happened.. I think youll see a lot of contracts in gm's drawers just waiting to be filed on July 1.
If Bishop (or whoever) really wants to be in tampa, and Stevie has made it clear theyre serious about keeping him, it makes no difference if tgey expose him and then let him hit UFA.