cross16

So basically this rests on having a historic run of drafting. Possible sure, but not realistic IMO. Tampa probably is the biggest successor story for a rebuild and it took them 5 drafts to assemble, Stamkos, Hedman, Kucherov and Vasilevsky. More if you want to throw Point in there. I think selling anyone on less than that is selling a wish and a prayer IMO. Doesn't mean it can't be done or that people shouldn't want a rebuild I just if you are advocating for that we should be more realistic as to what we are looking at. Still arguments both ways of course.

I think the Oilers have the roster to win a cup but I don't think they have the goaltending. Skinner was not good last night. Still the Oilers win the series but I don't know how they can trust their goaltending to go on a run here.

Rumors were last year Backlund asked for a trade. During his 900 game he gave a similar non committal answer about getting to 1000 games as a Flame. I'm not saying we need to believe them word for word but I don't think their non committal stance is tied directly to the GM change.

Yeah this is the point I was trying to make. I think the coaches who go from AHL Head coach to NHL assistant are the ones who are looking to gain experience and round out their resume. I think running a bench is an important skill so if you have the AHL resume as the head coach I'm not sure it's furthering your career to be an NHL assistant. I think Love has the resume, or at least is fully on the path, to get himself an NHL job so I'm not sure why he'd give up running a bench/program to do so. It's too bad this is decision seems to gets framed so much as we need to hold Sutter accountable for last year. I personally don't think that's the decision at all the decision for me is 2 fold: 1- does Sutter have the right philosophy to move this team forward next year and beyond? For me that's a no 2- Is the environment, which the head coach has the most control over, positive and reading for success? for me that's a no. and the last wrinkle, you need to consider Love and what is his stock around the league. Is it worth losing Love to another NHL team only to fire Sutter in a few months/years? For me the decision is obvious not because of what happened last year but for how the org is set up for the foreseeable future. Sutter isn't the guy and IMO the Flames have to keep Love and give him a shot. Maybe he's a flop but the resume is just too damn impressive to let him go.

Catch 22 there though. If he's a game breaking talent he's going to keep them out of the bottom 3 picks. I'm not as convinced he is that good. we need to see, but I do think he'll play but he does throw a potential wrinkle into a rebuild if he is the next Saros. I mean look at the Preds. They sold pieces at the deadline and Saros almost single handily got them into the playoffs. I get your point I just think it's overly optimistic. Sure if everything goes perfect maybe they could do it in 4-5 years but they'd have to have everything to their way. Draft class lines up, no bad luck in the lottery etc. Not to mention how are you clearing some of these contracts the Flames have? So sure if everything lines up perfectly and they got all the breaks I could see this maybe getting done in 4-5 years but I just don't see that as probable.

This arena is just not Beans thing. I’ve seen him in a few settings like this and every single time I’ve walked away wondering how in the heck this guy got here. Just horrible presentation skills and really sub par people skills. he was horrible today. Just so out of touch and arrogant. I have no confidence in that guy leading this organization

during the press conference Maloney admitted that the flames initially approached him to be the GM. He was the one who said no so they agreed upon this role. (Cited at this point in his career he isn’t the guy to be a GM) count me surprised too if this “thorough analysis” leads to much.

my guess is that if Tulsky ever is a finalist for a job the Hurricanes will just promote him to GM and punt Waddell upstairs to POHO. I’d really like him but I’m not really of the belief he’s truly available

Not sure why he would do that. his stock is rising really fast that i'm not sure it would be considered a promotion to no longer run a bench.

Named to the AHL All rookie team today. Great season for Porier. work to do but he's moving up into Top Prospect territory https://theahl.com/2022-23-ahl-all-rookie-team

Back to back coach of the year honors. I really hope the news today doesn't cost the Flames this guy. NEED to be the ones to keep him and give him a shot

I agree but it's also why I like Maloney's quote about who they are looking for. Up and comers I think are far more likely to take this, as you say 1 of only 32, and prove themselves instead of candidates that have choice. the other thing working in the Flames favor is i'm not sure your going to see a lot of competition. Only them, Pittsburg and the Flyers looking for new GMs (that job might actually be less desirable honestly) right now. More are likely to open up but i'm not sure how many. Hard for me to see more than 1-2 more opening up as most of the ones I thought would have been on the hot seat (MacLellan in Wsh for example) seem like they are staying.

From Friedman's article today. i have no idea (well sorry actually 1) how the Flames can possibly let Sutter return next year. https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/32-thoughts-why-brad-treliving-and-the-flames-agreed-to-part-ways/

agree not a fear of mine in the slightest. All that today does for me is confirm what I've long feared, that I don't think this club is set up well for success due to the owners (well one of them). That is my main takeaway, for a long time I felt like I was making excuses for Treliving, change for me a while ago, and today I think is confirmation that those challenges that were rumored are true. so that's the negative part of me. I'll still welcome change and look forward to seeing who they hire and what excitement that will bring.

of what should be no surprise, don't get any hopes up a rebuild is coming Also sounds like they are leaning the more up and coming route. I liked this answer from Maloney

That was supposed to be 2012/2013 and here were are barely 10 years later (and worse off IMO). Part of the process or is this just THEE process for his org? I'm not so sure.

Discussed in other threads but hopefully this can focus on what's next for the Flames as it's been made official today that Treliving is out as GM. This wasn't a surprise but honestly Maloney to POHO was for me. I know he is well thought of in that org but looks like he will be tasked with finding the new GM. Futa and Lombardi are names that are going to be thrown around but I personally don't see that happening. Wouldn't make sense to me to hire Maloney to bring in someone like Lombardi. Futa is a maybe. I think Conroy will get real consideration and should. My personal list: Eric Tulsky (He's personally the only person out there that I want but for the purposes of discussion i'll add more) Jason Botterill Craig Conroy Jason Karmanos

So to recap in the last 10 months: - Gaudreau turns down more money to leave - Tkachuk leaves - GM leaves - More tenured Flame hints strongly he wants out - most important UFA is pretty non committal about coming back. - Rumors of a growing list of players want out - Flames are back to being a big of a laughing stock around the league approx. 10 years after they were trying to fix that. And that's just the hockey side. Never mind the fact that they can't get an arena built. I just don't see how any ownership group can possible sit there and think that things are going well, or that how they are operating is good.

I think the wheels have been in motion for this for a while. I'm not sure if there is one thing you can point to but just too much smoke to show this is not a positive working environment. - Deals falling apart because owners won't approve - Going above your head to hire a coach you didn't really want - Extending said coach - having your coach blatantly contradict you in the media and pretty consistently blast the team you put together - think on more than a few occasions the org threw him under the bus too. Not 1 person in this organization spoke about the Bill Peters situation, it was all Tree. COVID etc all Tree. last summer, all Tree. In all of those cases I think you'd expect an owners/president to at least have some say but outside of the odd mass email signed by John Bean you hear peep from anyone above Treliving. You can add autonomy to that too,I don't know if this as simple as autonym either. I think this is just an environment that Treliving just doesn't want to be a part of anymore and given how much respect he has in the league likely either has confidence (or already knows) there's a better spot for him out there

maybe him going somewhere else and having success (which I think is likely) is what will force the ownership group to re evaluate their operations. I have zero problem with him leaving and would agree this is good for him. I think most in his position would do the same thing. now i'm really curious to see how deep this goes. Do Conroy/Pascall stay? how does this impact players? Hard not to be dramatic here but this really feels like a pending disaster coming for this franchise.

Some will cheer but this is a really disappointing day I think. Can debate the individual moves he made/didn't make but the fact that a good GM doesn't want to stay says something. The fact that they promoted someone who is pretty underqualified to hire the next guy says something too. The fact that they prioritized someone like Sutter, despite many reasons to be worried, says something. i don't think it says anything positive about the future of this org. Change would not be bad but I don't think this is the type of change the club needs. I also think the Flames are losing a really quality person here. Treliving steered this club through some really difficult times and did it with minimal support from ownership/his boss. He brought in quality people, he drafted and scouted well, he delivered 2 of the best regular seasons this club has ever seen and he built the best AHL team for 2 years in a row now, something I've never seen be done here personally. He is not without mistakes, wasn't perfect, but IMO he did a very good job running this club, made the Flames a quality place again and I personally have little optimism the Flames are going to hire someone who is going to be better.

Official that Treliving is out. “Mutual” but I think the truth is he didn’t want to come back. the Maloney promotion is disappointing for sure. Very on brand for this organization.

I'm not against a rebuild but I don't think it's what I would advocate for at this time. I think a rebuild here would be very long and painful because there is a lot of work to be done just to pull this roster/contracts apart. I think even being cautiously optimistic you are looking at 7 years before your back to being in the playoffs, not even a contender just a playoff team. Completely fair that there are fans wiling to do that, i'm just not one of them at this point. I don't think the Flames would get enough future assets, and they'd have to include future assets to get out from some of their deals, to put them in the spot you'd want to be in. i think this team can be a consistent playoff team and even have a run in them for the next 2-3 years so I would run with that. I think a few things need to happen though: 1- Part of why I am in favor of trying to compete is Dustin Wolf. I truly believe he is going to be a good NHL goalie. Maybe not Saros good but good so the priority needs to be to get him in the NHL next year. If you can trade Markstrom do it (i'm skeptical) but if takes Vladar then fine too. You just need him in the NHL and you need him playing a minimum of 30 games. 2- Need to get younger. I think the "Flames are slow narrative" has more to do with style of play than talent on the roster but it doesn't change this point. Flames need more energy. Ruzicka, Coronato, Pelletier and Zary are all contenders for the roster and IMO at least 3 of them should be part of this roster next year. That will likely require moving someone in the top 6 but i'm good with that. Also could use youth on D. 3- Need to change the mix on D. Flames have too many of the same player on D. The transition the puck, skate well, move it but a little up and down in their own zone. Hanifin, Anderson, Kylington, Weegar Stetcher are all in this mold and I think the flames need someone who is a little more stout, good at ending cycles and passing it up. 4- Goes without saying that Lindholm needs to be retained. I don't think Lindhom is a number one center but he is a very good center and I think without him, unless they can pull off some miracle trade, this plan falls apart because the center ice position won't be good enough. How I would get there: 1. Coach. Personally I want to see a change here but I would give Sutter a choice. Points 1 and 2 he has direct influence over so I would want it in writing from him that Wolf/kids are going to play. I'm not brining back his guys or his vets and i'm not going to replace them in fA either. If you don't like it, there's the door and I'll get another coach but if he wants to stay this is how he needs to operate. 2- The 2024 UFAs. It would be completely irresponsible of the Flames to head into next year with 6 UFAs (almost of which are high profile). Decision had to be made here and I'm not saying all of them have to be retained or shipped out for picks, you just need to make some calls. As I mentioned I think the mix on the Flames D and i've long been a fan of trading Hanifin but I would dangle all of the 24 UFAs and see what I can get. I would pursue extensions with Lindholm look to move 1 or 2 and then see how the rest play out. I'd use the future assets acquired in those potential deals to try and add some pieces to this club. I'd shop Zadorov the hardest probably and try and cash in on what I think was a career year.

I hope that is what is occurring, I really do. I think this silence confirms the power struggle that has long been hinted. Positive change can come from that for sure. But it's not great that we are here.

The silence from the flames is getting more eerie by the day here. If we don’t hear from Sutter and or Treliving today it’s going to be hard not to assume something is up. not a great look.