cross16
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Everything posted by cross16
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Looks like Mac on waivers and Berra on the way up.according to Elliot Friedman https://twitter.com/friedgehnic/status/396631253929431040
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I don't think its a problem to have this goalie situation for this season as long as it's this season alone. I haven't seen much out of Ramo either but I don't think you abandon the plan altogether without more time and make a panic move. Try it for the season and if Ramo or Berra can't rise up by the end of the season you look outside the organization. One year of potentially bad goaltending is not going to ruin prospects or allowing losing to saturate the organization. Multiple years of that will which is why you try this for a awhile and then make changes.
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They are standard for guys who have proven they can play in the NHL. Contracts should be earned. Money has nothing to do with rfa or UFA status. The age you sign your first NHL contract is what determines the status and because Ramo had an NHL deal at a younger age he falls into the typical UFA rules. Cervenka's deal was his first and at that age you don't retain any rfa status.
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Cervenka is actually a good example of what I'm talking about. One year deal and a low salary so when it didn't work was easy to say goodbye.
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Big difference though is all of those guys got that money after they proved they can play in the NHL. Fasth is a good example as it only took 1 mill to get him over and then once he proved himself he got his money. Ramo got his money, and he's security of a two year deal, with having zero evidence to prove he can even play in he NHL. I don't have any disrespect for he KHL but it's a fair ways below the calibre of the NHL especially in the talent level of shooters so for me I don't think what you do over there should impact your contract here. It should have been a one year prove it deal and if he said no and wanted to stay for more money than best off luck to him. I don't dispute he idea of trying Ramo, althought IMO it was not a good move frond day one, but I do have a problem with how much money they are paying him.
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I won't speak for geo on this one as to why he things Ramo is a bad deal but i do agree with him. Your right dd that he was making a fair bit over there but IMO the flames still owned all the power. IMO Ramo needs the flames more than the flames needed him and if it took as much as it did then I think the flames should have told him to get lost. This is he NHL and it was the flames offering him a chance to show he can play in the NHL and that alone should have been enough for Ramo to consider it and if not are the flames really any worse off? Personally I don't think Ramo should have gotten anything over 2 million and it is a bad contract IMO
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Mac was a safe guard. Putting in two guys with almost no NHL experience is a very risky move imo not just for the results of the flames but for the development of a goalie. Having Mac lets you reduce the pressure on Ramo and Berra to perform right away and allows someone like Berra to adjust to the NA game.
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Cue the JJ meltdown..... Probably makes sense. Heat don't play till Friday and Alaska plays tomorrow and Wednesday I think and Ortio needs a game before getting put in cold on the weekend so that would appear to be the plan.
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Again I don't doubt a drop in interest i just don't agree you are looking at a massive drop to the point revenue will suffer unless this last several years. I they've got another 2 seasons until results need to improve and then at that point I'd be worried but I still don't think it would come close to the 90s level. Not to mention a drop that size represents about 5% of their season ticket base so Hardly dropping like flies....
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I too think Gilles is their best goalie prospects and in fact would argue he is one of the flames top prospects in the organization regardless off postion I don't think either Ramo or Berra will become stars by any means but I dont think its fair to write them off here. I've seen flashes from both that are good but I don't think your looking at the next flames star goalie by any means
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Based on preseason up to the start of the third period, Ramo has outplayed Berra without question and deserves to be the starter contract or not.i don't think Ramo has played fantastic but I think he's outplayed Berra. I think the AHL would be good for Berra I still think he needs some refinement to his game. Too aggressive and he loses his technique and positioning which is what I also saw in development camp.
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You have to earn your time. If Ortio is to be the starter in Abby he simply needs to play better than everyone else down there. Very simple.
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I think te differences for me is one the disposable income in calgary has remained quite high as the job market and salaries are good and not just from a personal standpoint but from a corporate one too. Many corporation just couldn't afford to partner with the flames then. You also had the issue of the dollar and the instability of operating a Canadian club. I think a large reason fas lost interest in most Canadian markets in the late 90s is they for tired of seeing all of their stars shipped out because they couldn't afford them. Creates a lot of resentment and lack of interest when you feel you are just a feeder system and not capably of keeping your stars or surrounding them with anything good. Flames bucked the trend of keeping Jaromw but it hurt then in not being able to support him and now with the salary cap you don't have that issue. Lastly the flames have solid ownership now and no threat to move, in fact a brand has been recreated that wasn't there at that time. I won't dispute that interest has dropped but personally I haven't seen it drop near the levels of the 90s. I still think there is a very healthy amount of interest and intrigue in the flames and they ave a few seasons to try and work off of that but not much more that I will agree with.
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To be fair, it's the first preseason game.... I think it's more than fair to give players a pass on one or te games. Attended the game in calgary and Macdonald actually played very well and looked ready, Ortio was pretty so/so in my mind.
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Is that really a fair comment considering its only been the one rebuild that wasn't supported and during that time the oil industry was in a recession and there was no salary cap. To me there are very few similarities between what the flames did in the late 90s and what they are doing right now.
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Kipper was not as unknown as you think. He was a back to back AHL all star and initially faired pretty well at the NHL level but he struggled to take the reins and eventually lost his job. To me kipper was your classic example of a change of scenario type of player not one that was picked up out of nowhere. I don't think the flames were expecting the level they got but I think they expected a decent starting goalie when they made that move because he had already proven the talent was there and I think Ramo is fair more of a wild card than kipper was when he was traded because at least kipper has North American success where Ramo has had none, not even in the AHL. Not saying that I think that means Ramo will fail just I don't think the two sides are very comparable.
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And that's all I'm saying. Posting thought on how someone plays in a game doesn't mean in saying that's who he is. I just think he is more of a project and probably needs sone seasoning in the A rather tan someone who is going to step in right away and play.
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I felt he got very lucky yesterday. There were 3 or 4 times he got out of place on a rebound and the player just missed the net. Im not saying he has Ben awful I just think he is more of a project at this point than someone ready to play in the NHL. I also didn't think the Granlund goal was particularity great.
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I also don't think it's an awful thing for Brossoit to play in the ECHL either. Personally I didn't walk away from camp that happy with Berra. I was expecting a more technically and fundamentally sound goalie and what I found was someone who I thought pulled himself ou of position making saves which made recovery difficult. He also let in two pretty weak goals in my opinion yesterday. Ortio had a pretty solid camp IMO but I think it comes down to training camp and wether or not Ortio has any interest in playing in the A. If he doesn't and would prefer to play pro in Finland it makes for an easier decision.
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What he is making in the KHL should not, IMO, impact what the flames offer. Cervenka was making far more in the k and he still came over for just over 1 mill. If he wants to be an NHL goalie then he needs to understand there are sarifices you need to make in order to do that and in no way should the flames reward his KHL play in his NHL contracts. So I will say again if Feaster is paying Ramo more than 2 million that is ridiculous because he doesn't deserve it and if Ramo had said that he needs X amount to come over I would have told him to go pound sand and get lost and the flames should have too. He shouldn't be one penny over 2 million in fact I was being generous with that 2 mill figure.
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If they pay him anymore than about 2 million Feaster should be canned ASAP. I don't care what he was making in Russia this is an opportunity to play in the NHL and that means sacrifice. I'm think 2 years at 2mill or less per.
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I'm not sold on the Flames goaltending plan, but one positive I do see with it is that they arn't committing to it long term. They try it next year and if it doesn't work 2014 actually has some pretty good potential UFAs: Lundqvist (probably won't make it there) Ryan Miller JOnas Hiller Halak Dubynyk Crawford Elliot Not to mention anyone else who could develop in that time. The goalie market has been very strong over the last several years so as long as the Flames don't commit to this long term if Berra/Ramo don't work out it's not like they can quickly change gears. Also with the depth they should add in with thie draft combined with other draft efforts they should have enough depth to be more aggressive in trades. Again not saying it's the best plan but there are some positive to it.
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And like I said I don't know until I see Berra play. If Conz is better well that sucks becuase i'm not a Conz fan but all i'm saying is i'm willing to see what Berra can do before I dismiss him soley based on stats that all
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Have you seen him play or is that simply based on stats? I don't think it's fair to write someone off soley based on stats when goaltenidng stats are incrdibly misleading to begin with.
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I don't know much about Berra so this isn't in resonse to him but Conz is not an NHL goaltender I would be very upset if the Flames signed him. I remember watching him in the World juniors and thinking overrated. Yes he faced alot of shots but the quality of his saves was average and his athletic ability is average as well. Good media story but not a good prospect and there is a very good reason he got passed over in TWO entry drafts and still remainds unsigned depsite being named top goaltender. He would have had to improve leaps and bounds from where he was then for me to want to sign him. And being compared once by Pierre Mcquire and Gord Miller does not constitute "often" being compared to Jiggy.
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