cross16

personally I have no problems with how the Flames have managed their goaltending lately.

With all that has gone on this season the flames should reallh be in a lottery pick. The fact that they are not speaks to the fact that while we have many things to critique this, at its core, is a very talented team. It’s why although I understand there are faults and critiques, Treliving has generally done a pretty good job building up this organization.

well Ward has completely changed the team so I’m not sure I agree they are letting him go because he would continue the Peters style. Ward and Peters have proven to be very different. Nothing to base this on other than my own opinion but I feel it’s more likely that the top end options don’t view Calgary as a favorable destination. If you can’t land a top guy you will need to do a search which is why I think he’s sticking with Ward.

I’m not a huge fan of ownership by any means but I do wonder about this whole “they won’t pay for coaches” idea. By all accounts Peters was well paid and I believe back in the day Sutter was well paid as well. They’ve also fired coaches quick and been fine paying 2 head coaches at a time. I think the bigger issue here is top coaches always have options and why is Calgary and the Flames going to be at the top of that list? Owners have spent a lot of money on coaches and buyouts so I’m starting to believe it wouldn’t make sense for them to not want to pay coaches.

Too long to quote but I agree with both of you. A long standing problem with NHL player safety and suspensions is they tend to penalize the result and not the action or intent and this is a prime example. Giving out a small punishment because Cernak was lucky and didn’t get hurt is ridiculous I think the NHL needs to move away from using former players as the head of player safety. Stop the cycle.

Just a farce at this point. How you thought a former enforcer would do a good job running player safety is beyond me. Just a terrible department doing a terrible job protecting players. Tarnishing their product imo.

Agree on Hamonic and Stone, as I've said I don't want them back and would trade Hamonic for sure. Disagree on Brodie/Hanifin. Krug is the only player on that list I would take over those 2 (excluding Pietrangelo and Muzzin as both I don't think make it to UFA) and I think Krug is going to be pricey. The rest of that list is mostly 3rd pairing guys or guys I would put at par or below Brodie/Hanifin. Barrie and Ceci are arguable but both comes with some serious warts and you may wind up paying them more than your paying Hanifin. I do get where you are going but I just think you are downplaying he current d and overrating what is out there. In that scenario I think you come back more expensive and less talented.

Those are ALOT of very avg dmen on that list. I think you would be thoroughly disappointed if the Flames decided to rebuild their d core around those guys in FA. Pietrangelo is the exception and i think the chances are low he leaves the Blues. I think the problems that have developed lately on D are more system/coaching related then player. This was a team that was a very good defensive team under Gulutzan and last year and into the start of this year was a very good defensive team under Peters as well. I don't think that suddenly the same players who executed fine under different coaches suddenly forgot how to play defense. The only issues , in terms of personnel, I see is Hamonic has slowed down and ecome less effective as has Gio. Maybe gio is age, maybe he's trying to do too much but 2 of your top 4 dmen taking a step back has made an impact. I still think Gio is find and the issues are more he has been trying to do too much and not execute but I do point to coaching for a majority of the team defense issues. It's also accountability. I understand that star offensive players don't want to play defense and i'm fine with that. But it's up to your leaders and your coaching staff to not give them an option and that level of accountability has not existed for some time in Calgary IMO.

IMO push or kick is irrelevant. His reaction to this is the problem. but for what it's worth, Kassian in his own words admitted he kicked him and even tries to say he could have kicked him harder. He is exactly the type of guy the league needs to throw the book at. ZERO regard or respect for the other players out there. But it is NHL "Player safety", which is an oxymoron in it's own right, so the suspension will be minimal.

If it were me i would throw the book at Kassian and give him 20 games. He clearly is not learning and not listening to previous punishment or discussion around his play and while the outcome here was basically nothing the action is brutal and has zero place in the game. Anything less than 10 games is a slap on the wrist and an absolute joke. A strong message needs to be sent here. Pronger got 8 games for his stomp on Kesler and that's the closest comp we have I think. I thought 8 games was a joke for that too so i think there sound be a minimum of 10 games here.

timing is pretty curious here. Wild are playing well and have had a decent season all things considered. I get Guerin would probably want his own guy, just don't get why he waited to do it. Maybe this is a throw in the towel type move. I'm not really a fan either and I don't think Boudrau is that good of a coach. Not sure I would rush to hire him over Ward to be honest and if it came down to it I might just keep Ward in place over Boudreau. Not an option I would be excited about or pursue if I were BT. I haven't been a huge fan of much that Ward has done but at the same time there are positives there and IMO enough positives that part of the decision may rest on going with the devil you know instead of the one you don't. Obviously I hope they can land a Gallant or Laviolette for example (ie a more veteran head coach) but I do think Ward is going to be in the mix.

Since Nov 1st: 5 on 5 Neal - 2 Goals 5 points Lucic - 1 Goal 6 points All situations: Neal 8 goals 16 points Lucic 5 goals 10 points And Lucic is the better defensive player by quite a bit. Took some time but the trade has certainly developed into what it always was IMO. Problem for a problem with a small upgrade to an area that each time needed.

Which is a good and fair point. I will add that I think it's unlikely the Flames would pursue a buyout this soon. I could maybe foresee it next summer, pre expansion draft, but we'll see. I just think there is more flexibility then people think or that was first reported and there is flexibility to move on from Lucic if the Flames were motivated to and IMO there is more flexibility to do so then with Neal. Mainly due to the buyout cost.

In fairness to them the contract was sold by the media as buyout proof. So unless you go and do the calculation it is easy to fall into that trap, i was there for some time too. You also have to be OK with a lot of dead cap space but if you can avoid that sunk cost fallacy it becomes an easy deal to consider buying out IMO. Certainly it's an easier pitch to ownership.

If it were this easy don't you think Flames would have done it? Are you prepared to lose Dube or a 1st round pick over it? This talk about Lucic's contract being buyout proof needs to stop as it is not true, Neal's is actually the rougher buyout. Cost you almost 12 million in cash and 6 years of 2million of dead cap hit. Lucic cost you 3mill in cash to buyout and 3 years of 4.8 mill, 3.5 mill and 4.8 mill of dead cap and then 3 years of only 500k of dead cap. It's a sunk cost but the sunk cost was there with Neal so once you realize that it's the easier deal to actually buyout. I don't like giving him as many opportunities as ward does but I have not minded Lucic's game this year at all. Playing his role above avg IMO. The contract will always suck but again this is a sunk cost that the Flames simply were not getting rid of so at least the Flames found a way to get a useful player out of it.

I think something that goes overlooked in evaluating GMs is those final pieces that push you over the top are the hardest to acquire, i.Tearing down isn't difficult, rebuilding isn't difficult it's pushing yourself to contender status and then winning that cup that is. Very good to great GMs like Doug Wilson, George McPhee etc are all good at what they do and still haven't found it nor did Steve Yzerman. This is where you lose me on the criticism that Treliving did nothing or thought this team was ok. Clearly he did not if he was after Zucker and Kadri, he knew there were issues but the list of players who are going to fix that is small and often difficult to make. Moves for the sake of moves are not what's going to put you over the top, filling specific skill sets is and it's clear Treliving knew what was missing because he was targeting the right pieces, IMO at least. Just not so easy to make it work. Normally teams that win cups get so through internal growth and I think clearly Treliving was expecting more growth out of guys like Monahan/Gaudreau this season and the fact they are not taking that step is IMO the biggest reason why this team is floundering. However, I also think that was a very reasonable bet to make at the time and the fact it isn't working out does not lay entirely at his feet. That being said this isn't to excuse him of blame and I understand there are people that don't like him and that's fine. I can understand the rationale for moving on but for me it would be a mistake, unless you've got a replacement in mind who is an upgrade but IMO that's tough to find. For me he's shown me enough good through his drafting and scouting process, the development process, the type of players he targets, his ability to handle RFA contracts and his general process on things to say he is good at what he does and deserves to keep going. Of course he has faults and he's make mistakes but as I've also said many times show me a GM who hasn't. Everyone makes mistakes and IMO Treliving generally learns from his. I've seen enough that he should continue and stop this cancel/fire culture that typically gets teams nowhere.

Ya sorry i think this logic is crazy. I don't care about being scored against because i'm already in a losing situation and that won't change anything. All that should matter is pressing to get that next goal. Reider IMO does nothing to help you in that situation. it was let's throw crap at a wall and see what sticks strategy. that's not exactly wrong in hockey but it's starting to become a pattern under Ward.

Your down a goal. There is no way, NO WAY, how good your are defensively should factor into that decision. It is indefensible to put someone with 6 goals in their last 120 games on the ice down a goal with the net empty. I will give him this the thought, the players are doing him no favors. I don't beleive effort stems from a coach and right now the Flames effort level and compete is way below where it needs to be. I don't think Ward is doing a good job but players deserve most of the blame here.

Really never when you look back on their history. Their "success" with the Sutters is the closest and even that I don't take at face value as they were all coming home. Flames had a rare edge there so the way i look at it they've never been able to attract an elite coach. Their success stories are more taking chances on other with pedigree, Badger for example. I think a lot goes into it but ownership would be 1 I would imagine. i think the performance of this core isn't encouraging for a coach nor is Ken King's happy trigger finger in the 2000s. Location and being in Canada play a big part too, as if you look at it until the Oilers landed McDavid they weren't exactly getting coaches with pedigree to join them either. There's always been rumors the Flames owners don't believe in paying high end dollars for coaches but i'm not sure that's true. Peters was making a relatively good salary from what I understand as was Sutter. I think it's more likely that coaches just don't see this as a high end destination. So as much as i'd I would love a Gallant, and be happy with Laviolette, I don't consider it likely.

I agree it does not bode well for the Flames because it sends the message their job is not attractive enough. I get wanting to see all options but if the Flames job was attractive and the money was right do we really think they would wait? Maybe 1 but both? Maybe they just want the break but IMO it just fuels the belief that the Flames are going to have a hard time landing a coach with a high pedigree.

If the Flames choose to ride Ward for the rest of the year it sure is going to add a lot of fuel to the speculation that either they don't want to pay top end $ for a coach, or that those coaches don't want to be here. The Flames were careful to not say Ward was their guy for the rest of the year and the results sure don't suggest he is. Looking at that and then looking at 2 coaches on the market with pedigree is not going to be a positive look for the Flames if they don't land either one of them. May be no truth to any of that but there is going to be a ton of smoke around it.

1 year of Ferland and 3 years of Hamilton are worth a combined 12 years of Lindholm/Hanifin? Will you till feel this way when the Hurricanes, in 2 years, have to pay Hamilton almost what Lindholm/Hanifin make combined and maybe more? Is that control not worth the 2nd, and probably 3rd, Fox generated when he was dealt to the Rangers? I get not liking the deal I think a fair argument can be made for it and if we are being honest if I were BT I would have kept Hamilton. But I do think it was a fair deal and it's not hard to argue a win for either side which is ideally what you want in a trade.

Think it's worth pointing gout that since Dec 1st the Flames are in the bottom 5 in the league in Coris against, Fenwick against, Shots against and scoring chances against. Rititch has been inconsistent sure but let's not absolve the team in front of him. Talbot's had a good run but I still think it makes sense to view Rittich as the starter. have zero problems with him going back in the net tonight and to see the Flames continue to use 2 goalies. Not like Talbot was great coming out of the all star break.

The longer Ward is the coach the less impressed I have become. I'm for sure in the camp that you can't lay everything at his feet and this is majority a player problem but at the same time it's also fair to look at Ward and say he isn't doing a very good job. Both are very possible and IMO are correct. Between how big of a mess they are defensively and some of the really perplexing decision he makes he sure looks to me like a coach that is in over his head. He's really just making stuff up as he goes and trying it out rather than having a plan. I'm sure he is a good coach in many attributes but to me he's not looking like a head coach. See if he can correct it here but the trends are not positive.

I mean if you buy into the policeman mentality (i don't but many seem to) I think you have to point out that you see far less slashing and wacking of the Flames better players this year. Not really to defend Lucic, to me he's exactly what I thought he would be. Oiler fans warned us that he was not this aggressor/physical presence he was in his prime. Perhaps some injuries have flared up because I felt he was finding his groove towards the holidays and every since his game has tailed off.