Time to Fire Huska?

[travel_dude]

I don't see the enough offense from Agostino to say he could be a top 6 guy at the NHL level. I see him being more of an energy guy.

Granlund is a guy who can play in the top 6 but I don't think he has high end offensive ability. His skating, puck skills and shot are all pretty average. He does have plus hockey IQ and vision. I just see him being that 30 point not quite a 3rd liner not quite a 2nd line player.

 

Where the problem lies with Granlund is faceoffs.  He is below what you need from a NHL center.  You can't fit him on the Flames in that capacity, even if you got rid of Stajan and Backlund.  Bennet is better already.  Colborne is better, as is Grant.  On the Heat, Arnold is better.  From what I have seen, Granlund is well suited for a PK role, except for taking all faceoffs.  He has a good shot, and at least average skating.

 

As the coach of a development team for the Flames, shouldn't he be molded into a winger?  Shouldn't there be some discussion between Huska and BT (or BH) about the need to develop high end wingers, not just use someone in a role that fits his current team.

Just spitballing here, because his usage on the Flames determined his being sent down.  Faceoffs not good enough.  One game, one bad giveaway behind the net and 25% on the dot. 

[kehatch]

We'll have to agree to disagree on the notion that 1 year is enough time to properly gauge a coach because I don't think that's fair but I bolded the following for a couple reasons.

Arnold - What was wrong with Arnold's year last year ? From everything I read he had a solid year and IMO 38 points in 61 games played is pretty good for a guy who is not a high end offensive talent. 4 points in 8 games this year doens't to me sound like that bad a start....

Wotherspoon/Kanzig - At what point do you question the coach or question the draft pick? HOnestly IMO, these two are jsut not good draft picks so I think its unfair to question or use them against Huska. Especialy consdiering he coached Kanzig for a grand total of 1 game last year.... Wothersppon wasn't exactly progresing under Ward either....

Kulak - This guy went form the ECHL to making the Flames in training camp what more development do you want? I think Kulak is a success story if anything else. No he hasn't been great since being returned but you know what neither was TJ Brodie. Getting sent down isn't always easy.

I agree with Jtech outside of Poirier I see no prospect struggling to the point where we should question Ryan Huska's job.

Arnold appears to have taken a step back. Huska can take zero credit for Kulaks turn around as he wasn't his coach, but he hasn't looked good in the AHL under Huska despite his success elsewhere. I will give you Wotherspoon and Kanzig because I have never liked them as a prospect,but you would have expected Wotherspoon to have progressed as at least an AHL player.

I wasn't a huge Ward fan either. But you could point to guys under his watch and show the impact he had in their development. Ferland comes to mind. You can point to Brodie under Playfairs watch as well.

The best thing you can say about the prospects under Huskas watch is "they aren't terrible". Meh isn't a ringing endorsement.

It's still early. But as this season ends if you haven't seen progression in some of the prospects in two years then it is time to consider a change in coaching.

[JTech780]

Arnold appears to have taken a step back. Huska can take zero credit for Kulaks turn around as he wasn't his coach, but he hasn't looked good in the AHL under Huska despite his success elsewhere. I will give you Wotherspoon and Kanzig because I have never liked them as a prospect,but you would have expected Wotherspoon to have progressed as at least an AHL player.

I wasn't a huge Ward fan either. But you could point to guys under his watch and show the impact he had in their development. Ferland comes to mind. You can point to Brodie under Playfairs watch as well.

The best thing you can say about the prospects under Huskas watch is "they aren't terrible". Meh isn't a ringing endorsement.

It's still early. But as this season ends if you haven't seen progression in some of the prospects in two years then it is time to consider a change in coaching.

 

Arnold has only played 8 games a little early to say he has taken a step back.

 

I would say lots of players had very good seasons last year under Huska. Agostino, Granlund, Poirier, Arnold, Hathaway, Elson, Culkin. Even Kulak had 13 points in 26 games. It's been 10 games to start this season, way too early to suggest anything about development this year. They are playing in a new city, in a new division on the other side of the country.

[cccsberg]

Which prospects aren't developing as planned? Emile Poirier is really the only one that comes to mind.

Agree completely, and that's ONLY if you consider points in a handful of games as "development".  Personally I'm still thinking the team is getting settled in their new environ, with lots of new players and things will come around.

[kehatch]

I agree its early and I have said I would give it more time.  But the fact is things aren't that rosy in our AHL club and haven't been since the new coaches arrived.  

[cccsberg]

I agree its early and I have said I would give it more time.  But the fact is things aren't that rosy in our AHL club and haven't been since the new coaches arrived.  

More time will be good, we'll see.

 

As far as "since the new coaches arrived"?  Since they've arrived, the team has moved across the continent twice, with mostly new staff twice, into a totally new division and into another country, lost their primary goalie(s) to significant injuries twice and yes, last year MANY players had very solid development years.  

[robrob1974]

Could it be that our prospects aren't as good as we thought they were?

[travel_dude]

Could it be that our prospects aren't as good as we thought they were?

 

I wonder what would have happened if we had to fill more spots last season.  I mean top 6 forward and top 4 D spots.

Instead of picking up Schlemko and having Diaz, we used Spoon or Culkin.  Would they be looking like a bust (Spoon)?

Or if there was a top 6 spot for Granlund and Poirier.  

 

Yes, those players got at least a game, some more than others, but they were mostly depth usage.  Just wondering.

After all, we were in a rebuild, so last year should have been a building year.  Turned into a "gotta win" year.  I'm happy what we did, but not with all the players that were part of it.

[cross16]

Could it be that our prospects aren't as good as we thought they were?

 

Bingo, at least to a large degree IMO.

 

The top end skill in the Flames systems is, for the most part, either already in the NHL or sill in junior ranks. I think the AHL team has some solid hockey players but the are void of players that I think are capable of beign in the top 6 of an NHL team and top 4 blueliners. Right now I think the only guy at the AHL level that has a chance to play in the top 4 of a good NHL blueline is maybe Kylington and he is a rookie to the AHL and NA. I think its super challenging to win consistantly at any level when you don't have a good blueline or center ice position and while the Flames have depth at both in the AHL level, they lack talent at it.

 

Not an indictment on the Flames its just how it works. I still think there system is good overal and I think there are multiple players on the Heat that will play in the NHL but even guys like Poirer/Klimchuk that were 1st rounders arn't locks to be top 6 NHL forwards and I think people have overrated them a touch. But to Kehatch's point you do want to see your AHL team improving and you want to see results and you arn't right now so I get the overal theme. I guess for me, when you look at Huska's track record at the junior ranks it is extremely impressive in terms of his develoment record so when I combine that with all the challenges that exist for the Flames farm team since he joined I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for the next 2 seasons.

[travel_dude]

Bingo, at least to a large degree IMO.

 

The top end skill in the Flames systems is, for the most part, either already in the NHL or sill in junior ranks. I think the AHL team has some solid hockey players but the are void of players that I think are capable of beign in the top 6 of an NHL team and top 4 blueliners. Right now I think the only guy at the AHL level that has a chance to play in the top 4 of a good NHL blueline is maybe Kylington and he is a rookie to the AHL and NA. I think its super challenging to win consistantly at any level when you don't have a good blueline or center ice position and while the Flames have depth at both in the AHL level, they lack talent at it.

 

Not an indictment on the Flames its just how it works. I still think there system is good overal and I think there are multiple players on the Heat that will play in the NHL but even guys like Poirer/Klimchuk that were 1st rounders arn't locks to be top 6 NHL forwards and I think people have overrated them a touch. But to Kehatch's point you do want to see your AHL team improving and you want to see results and you arn't right now so I get the overal theme. I guess for me, when you look at Huska's track record at the junior ranks it is extremely impressive in terms of his develoment record so when I combine that with all the challenges that exist for the Flames farm team since he joined I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for the next 2 seasons.

 

You may be right about the reasons, but two more years is a long time to invest in a coach if he isn't the right guy.

 

Let's assume for a moment that he is the cause of the failings.  You are risking the pipeline on a guy that is causing your prospects to fail.  Even if he is only partially the cause, you are taking a big risk with your prospects.

 

You can only live on past accomplishments for so long.  If BT feels he isn;t working out, then he will make that decision.

[cross16]

You may be right about the reasons, but two more years is a long time to invest in a coach if he isn't the right guy.

 

Let's assume for a moment that he is the cause of the failings.  You are risking the pipeline on a guy that is causing your prospects to fail.  Even if he is only partially the cause, you are taking a big risk with your prospects.

 

You can only live on past accomplishments for so long.  If BT feels he isn;t working out, then he will make that decision.

 

 

Sure. I mean I don't work for the team so I have no idea if there are intenral issues or not. If something is wrong by all means make a change and make it fast.

 

All i'm saying is based on what i'm seeing I see no reason to make a change anytime soon. I'm seeing development, i see Huska as a good coach and I see he has a great track record for developing young players. So based on what I am looking at I see no reason he should go anytime soon. I am not seeing any failure in the team or in the individual prospects.

[JTech780]

Bingo, at least to a large degree IMO.

 

The top end skill in the Flames systems is, for the most part, either already in the NHL or sill in junior ranks. I think the AHL team has some solid hockey players but the are void of players that I think are capable of beign in the top 6 of an NHL team and top 4 blueliners. Right now I think the only guy at the AHL level that has a chance to play in the top 4 of a good NHL blueline is maybe Kylington and he is a rookie to the AHL and NA. I think its super challenging to win consistantly at any level when you don't have a good blueline or center ice position and while the Flames have depth at both in the AHL level, they lack talent at it.

 

Not an indictment on the Flames its just how it works. I still think there system is good overal and I think there are multiple players on the Heat that will play in the NHL but even guys like Poirer/Klimchuk that were 1st rounders arn't locks to be top 6 NHL forwards and I think people have overrated them a touch. But to Kehatch's point you do want to see your AHL team improving and you want to see results and you arn't right now so I get the overal theme. I guess for me, when you look at Huska's track record at the junior ranks it is extremely impressive in terms of his develoment record so when I combine that with all the challenges that exist for the Flames farm team since he joined I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for the next 2 seasons.

 

I am starting to wonder if we have a Nino Niederreiter or worse a Magnus Paajarvi on our hands with Emile Poirier. He plays a very similar style to those guys but he is smaller, and I am not even sure how that straight forward style translates to the NHL. I have always liked his raw speed, but the rest of his skating has been a question mark since we drafted him. Hopefully he can figure it out.

[travel_dude]

I am starting to wonder if we have a Nino Niederreiter or worse a Magnus Paajarvi on our hands with Emile Poirier. He plays a very similar style to those guys but he is smaller, and I am not even sure how that straight forward style translates to the NHL. I have always liked his raw speed, but the rest of his skating has been a question mark since we drafted him. Hopefully he can figure it out.

 

So, do you think that his coaches should be working on that aspect?  

 

If his strength is north/south, a player like Jones comes to mind.  If he has issues with east/west skating, then they need to work with him.  Don't break his natural speed (choppy, but effective), but get him working on edge control.

[cross16]

I am starting to wonder if we have a Nino Niederreiter or worse a Magnus Paajarvi on our hands with Emile Poirier. He plays a very similar style to those guys but he is smaller, and I am not even sure how that straight forward style translates to the NHL. I have always liked his raw speed, but the rest of his skating has been a question mark since we drafted him. Hopefully he can figure it out.

 

That was my fear after I watched him for a bit too. His speed was very impressive, specificaly his accleration, but I walked away wondering if you have another Lombardi/Raymond on your hands. The problem i have had with Poirier is can he actually make plays at top end speed or is he just a burner who can create opportunities in bunches in junior but as he moves up is going to struggle because suddnely he won't be the fastest guy on the ice anymore? To be more blunt, was he a "one trick pony" who anytime he is on the ice can go from a breakway (ala Mayson Raymond) but outside of that doesn't really bring much to the game.

 

Now he has more grit than Raymond so your hope would be he can develop a 200ft game and then at least you'll take that and have the speed threat. If that doesn't develop then I completely agree with you that its going to be a hard transition. As I said earlier I'm wondering if the drop in shots and points is the coaching staff/Flames trying to get Poirier to round out his game and actually slow things down a little bit.

 

At the end of the day, we should remember that when Poirier was drafted he was considered very talented but very raw. I don't think we should be overly surpirsed that 3 years later he still has warts. He can get there and I still think the upside is there but there are issues he needs to work on.

[DirtyDeeds]

Our new skating coach(no so new now) has been down in Stockton working with our farm team. His teachings are not conventional however(from the article I read). He uses equipment adjustments to increase the speed of all players by 10-15% range. I could be out a bit on these %'s I am going by memory.

 

I don't think he is the typical, here is how you push off to get the best jump, or here is how you adjust your stride to become more efficient, type skating coach at all....

[travel_dude]

Our new skating coach(no so new now) has been down in Stockton working with our farm team. His teachings are not conventional however(from the article I read). He uses equipment adjustments to increase the speed of all players by 10-15% range. I could be out a bit on these %'s I am going by memory.

 

I don't think he is the typical, here is how you push off to get the best jump, or here is how you adjust your stride to become more efficient, type skating coach at all....

 

If that's the case, it will help guys like Poirier increase their top speed.  Won't help his edge work so much.  

 

New coach needed or not, I am hoping to see some development in Poirier and Seiloff, who lost so much time.