Suggestion: Brandon Sutter

[travel_dude]

Just throwing this out there to see if there is any interest in trading for this guy.

6'3" - 190 lbs.

RHS

3rd line center

$3.3m remaining for 2015/16

 

For those that follow the Pengies, you may know his true value, but he is probably going to be traded at some point this season.  For what, I can't put a true value on him.  I am sure that they might like to get a top 6 winger, but is that something we could afford.

 

Raymond probably has little trade value, but he had a decent season playing in the East, so they probably have seen him more than a few times.  Put Raymond on a line with Crosby or Malkin, and he would put up points.

 

Does this make sense for two teams to exchange guys that aren't in the long-term plans?  I don't know if he would score any less than a Colborne, Jones or Jooris/Shore.  

 

[cross16]

I think the flames have more then enough options at 3rd line spot that trading for someone and going up assets doesn't make sense to me. I don't think Sutter would cost an arm and a leg but he would cost a decent asset I think and I dnt see the value in giving anything up in value to get a player when you have internal options.

[AlbertaBoy12]

Only reason I see us getting him is if management sees him havign potential to slot in as maybe like a 2nd line RW. Which he might be able to play to be quite honest.

[travel_dude]

I think the flames have more then enough options at 3rd line spot that trading for someone and going up assets doesn't make sense to me. I don't think Sutter would cost an arm and a leg but he would cost a decent asset I think and I dnt see the value in giving anything up in value to get a player when you have internal options.

 

The suggestion was Raymond for Sutter.  Sutter could be used as a right-winger, whereas Raymond doesn't play well there.

Anything more than Raymond would be a bit of an overpayment, unless we send some redundant piece as well.

 

Like I said, it depends on whether Raymond has any trade value or not.  His value to the Flames has really decreased.

[kehatch]

The suggestion was Raymond for Sutter.  Sutter could be used as a right-winger, whereas Raymond doesn't play well there.

Anything more than Raymond would be a bit of an overpayment, unless we send some redundant piece as well.

 

Like I said, it depends on whether Raymond has any trade value or not.  His value to the Flames has really decreased.

 

It will cost more then Raymond to acquire Sutter.  It would take real assets and I don't think we need to give up real assets as that is an area of depth for us.  

[DirtyDeeds]

I don't see the need for him. We already have him with a bit more scoring touch & speed in Mikael Backlund.

[cross16]

The suggestion was Raymond for Sutter. Sutter could be used as a right-winger, whereas Raymond doesn't play well there.

Anything more than Raymond would be a bit of an overpayment, unless we send some redundant piece as well.

Like I said, it depends on whether Raymond has any trade value or not. His value to the Flames has really decreased.

I didn't know that's exactly what you were proposing but I agree with above Pens don't make that deal. They don't need Raymond and they arnt trading a good 3rd line center for a part time winger. If you suscribe to the theory that anyone can play with Crosby then they wojldnt need to acquire Raymond and his contract they can get someone else.

[Flyerfan52]

I don't see the need for him. We already have him with a bit more scoring touch & speed in Mikael Backlund.

Except Sutter is usually healthy.

 

It'll take more than Raymond naturally so we could add Backlund (conditionally based on a re-sign add our 3rd rounder from Washington [#83] if needed). Brandon Sutter is pretty well an ideal 3C.

Backlund & Sutter are the same age. Talk on this board guesses it'd take 3.0 to re-up Backlund on a 1 year "prove it" contract. Sutter has 1 year left @ 3.3.

As a bonus we shed Raymond who doesn't fit.

[travel_dude]

Except Sutter is usually healthy.

 

It'll take more than Raymond naturally so we could add Backlund (conditionally based on a re-sign add our 3rd rounder from Washington [#83] if needed). Brandon Sutter is pretty well an ideal 3C.

Backlund & Sutter are the same age. Talk on this board guesses it'd take 3.0 to re-up Backlund on a 1 year "prove it" contract. Sutter has 1 year left @ 3.3.

As a bonus we shed Raymond who doesn't fit.

 

Well I wasn't guessing at the asking price, but you are probably close to the value they expect.  My hope was to shed the Raymond contract in some way, shape or form.  Between Backlund and Sutter, I can't comment on whether they are equal or not, but I doubt BT would make that deal considering how he values a high-possession forward.  If they threw in a D-prospect, then I would be more inclined to do that one, though.  Maybe Harrington or Dumoulin

[Flyerfan52]

Well I wasn't guessing at the asking price, but you are probably close to the value they expect.  My hope was to shed the Raymond contract in some way, shape or form.  Between Backlund and Sutter, I can't comment on whether they are equal or not, but I doubt BT would make that deal considering how he values a high-possession forward.  If they threw in a D-prospect, then I would be more inclined to do that one, though.  Maybe Harrington or Dumoulin

Don't get greedy. We shed Raymond (3.15 x 2) & get a better 3C while saving cap in total.

[travel_dude]

Don't get greedy. We shed Raymond (3.15 x 2) & get a better 3C while saving cap in total.

 

I was trying to balance the trade a bit, including $$ going the other way.  They would likely have to sign Backlund to something akin to what Sutter was getting.  We make the trade as you suggested, and I think we are very close to the cap floor again.

[Flyerfan52]

I was trying to balance the trade a bit, including $$ going the other way.  They would likely have to sign Backlund to something akin to what Sutter was getting.  We make the trade as you suggested, and I think we are very close to the cap floor again.

Durmuolin or Harrington are rookie/young D. I'd be happy to take either off their hands but certainly don't expect either as a throw-in for cap reasons as they barely count toward the max.

Neither will ever give the offence only crowd what they want but I'd gamble a 3rd on either in a separate trade.

[Zirakzigil]

Sutter is available, but it wont be for Raymond. Pens will add to Sutter to get a legitimate top 6 wing option, something the Flames dont have in spades to trade.  

[robrob1974]

I would give them Jooris and Raymond for Sutter. Jooris gives them a two-way game that can take the PK minutes Sutter brings, while Raymond adds offence. 

Do the Penguins want a 3rd rounder too, just for good measure, seeing as how Raymond had an off year?

Our D really needs an improvement. 

Although the PK did improve over the year, it needs to be better if we're going to stay in the position (Standings) we were in this year. How were Sutter's face-off numbers?

Backlund can always be moved to the wing as well. He has done it before. Or if his draws (#s) are still decent, it would be great to have good numbers on every face-off taken, because Monahan is going to have good numbers too (hopefully).

[travel_dude]

I would give them Jooris and Raymond for Sutter. Jooris gives them a two-way game that can take the PK minutes Sutter brings, while Raymond adds offence. 

Do the Penguins want a 3rd rounder too, just for good measure, seeing as how Raymond had an off year?

Our D really needs an improvement. 

Although the PK did improve over the year, it needs to be better if we're going to stay in the position (Standings) we were in this year. How were Sutter's face-off numbers?

Backlund can always be moved to the wing as well. He has done it before. Or if his draws (#s) are still decent, it would be great to have good numbers on every face-off taken, because Monahan is going to have good numbers too (hopefully).

 

Unless they don't get better offers, that sounds like a bad deal for the Pens.  I think Raymond is a lot better than what he was for us, but he has to play in a spot where he doesn't have to worry about driving the play, playing the body or preventing goals.  Put him on the wing of a fast skating N/S line and he would excel. 

 

Jooris is a RFA, so we would probably have to qualify him before the trade.

 

Maybe if you offered Russell in the deal and they included Dumoulin or Harrington, that might balance it a bit more.  It gives an NHL quality D-man for a prospect.

[Zirakzigil]

I would give them Jooris and Raymond for Sutter. Jooris gives them a two-way game that can take the PK minutes Sutter brings, while Raymond adds offence. 

Do the Penguins want a 3rd rounder too, just for good measure, seeing as how Raymond had an off year?

Our D really needs an improvement. 

Although the PK did improve over the year, it needs to be better if we're going to stay in the position (Standings) we were in this year. How were Sutter's face-off numbers?

Backlund can always be moved to the wing as well. He has done it before. Or if his draws (#s) are still decent, it would be great to have good numbers on every face-off taken, because Monahan is going to have good numbers too (hopefully).

3rd round draft picks are useless for a team like the Pens. They are a playoff team now and have needs to fill. The Pens are not going to trade one of their best expendable assets for a mediocre package. The Oilers wanted Sutter straight up for Perron last year and the Pens refused that trade, that should give you a pretty good gauge on his value. 

[cccsberg]

3rd round draft picks are useless for a team like the Pens. They are a playoff team now and have needs to fill. The Pens are not going to trade one of their best expendable assets for a mediocre package. The Oilers wanted Sutter straight up for Perron last year and the Pens refused that trade, that should give you a pretty good gauge on his value. 

Another team with exceptional top talent but they overpaid and don't have enough good other players.  I don't particularly like Sutter and don't want to trade for him, but think the trade scenario proposed is not out of line.  

 

From a Pens POV what would you do?  What is the problem?  Their window of opportunity is quickly closing and they've got very little to show for having the "supposed" two best players in the world as their 1C-2C for a decade.