cccsberg Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 There seems to be a lot of concern regarding the Flames lack of depth at D, and especially our thin D prospect ranks. To some extent I would agree in that we are much stronger elsewhere (C & LW & G) but we do have many D prospects in the pipeline and several may turn out. Looking at the Flames today with Giordano and TJ Brodie both playing excellent as a top pairing and even in Top NHL Defenceman discussions, I'd say the Flames have done a pretty impressive job developing D talent. This is compounded even further considering Giordano was an undrafted walk-on and TJ Brodie a 4th Round draft pick. Frankly I can't think of a single NHL team with a more impressive Top 1,2 D that started with such low or off the charts(undrafted) pedigree to start. If the Flames can continue that trend with one, two, three or more of their current prospects, and likely additions next June I think we'll be sitting pretty in the next few years. Right now the most prominent of those prospects are: Rafikov, Wotherspoon, Sieloff, Hickey, Mattson, Kanzig, and more still in Addy, Junior and the ECHL. There seems to be a good mix of size, toughness and skill. Who is likely to emerge, what do we need to see and how long is it going to take, based on what we've seen to date with our current D? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xstrike Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 I think Rafikov and Mattson would be the most likely low round draft picks to make it in the NHL. I just have this feeling about Mattson and he is playing against men already in the SHL. Rafikov was off my radar until recently but he has looked good as of late. My question isn't which ones make the NHL, it is which ones make the NHL at a #4 or higher position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cccsberg Posted January 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 I think Rafikov and Mattson would be the most likely low round draft picks to make it in the NHL. I just have this feeling about Mattson and he is playing against men already in the SHL. Rafikov was off my radar until recently but he has looked good as of late. My question isn't which ones make the NHL, it is which ones make the NHL at a #4 or higher position. I also like Rafikov and am looking forward to him in NA next Fall. Not so sure about Mattson as the info we've got to date is pretty limited. Any idea when he's coming over? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khrox Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 I think the best prospects not in the AHL/ECHL we have right now are Rafikov and Kanzig. I'm not sold on Mattson yet, and just haven't seen really anything on Hickey yet, so it is a partially uninformed opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cccsberg Posted January 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 I think the best prospects not in the AHL/ECHL we have right now are Rafikov and Kanzig. I'm not sold on Mattson yet, and just haven't seen really anything on Hickey yet, so it is a partially uninformed opinion. Yes, it is hard to get a fix on these guys because we don't see them and typically stats mean less with D men than forwards. Anyone know off hand how long it took Giordano and TJ Brodie to make it to the NHL? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FiresideChat Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 Brandon Hickey is my candidate of the current crop of young guys to be a top pairing defenseman. He was almost as good as Wotherspoon back in July at the development camp despite being 3 years younger and is one of the top two way D-men in the NCAA. The Flames have thrown a lot of darts at the board lately for D-men, you'd figure that one might hit the mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cccsberg Posted January 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 Brandon Hickey is my candidate of the current crop of young guys to be a top pairing defenseman. He was almost as good as Wotherspoon back in July at the development camp despite being 3 years younger and is one of the top two way D-men in the NCAA. The Flames have thrown a lot of darts at the board lately for D-men, you'd figure that one might hit the mark. Yeah I like Hickey too. He seems to be a great skater and has some offensive abilities too. Maybe this and another year of NCAA then it would be nice to see him in the AHL. Personally I like Kanzig, as he brings a couple different elements to the table that no one else does. I realize his skating is average, at best, but it does seem to be improving from last year, the last time I watched him(~month ago). The thing I like best is his smarts (positioning) and he utilizes his wingspan and strength effectively to cover guys and keep the net area clear, plus his battle along the boards. He's never going to win a scoring title, nor lead rushes up the ice, but I think he could be a very effective D man for the Flames. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kehatch Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 Brandon Hickey is my candidate of the current crop of young guys to be a top pairing defenseman. He was almost as good as Wotherspoon back in July at the development camp despite being 3 years younger and is one of the top two way D-men in the NCAA. The Flames have thrown a lot of darts at the board lately for D-men, you'd figure that one might hit the mark. Agreed. Everything I have seen or heard about him this season points to him being our best defensive prospect. Looking forward to seeing him in camp. My guess is he will be a topic based on his play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTech780 Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 I agree Hickey is probably our best D prospect at this point. He seems to be having a very good rookie season in the NCAA. Another player having a very good rookie year is Ryan Culkin. He has been my dark horse prospect for while now. He is tied for the defensemen scoring lead with Adirondack. He has quietly become one of the top defensemen for the baby Flames. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cccsberg Posted January 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 I agree Hickey is probably our best D prospect at this point. He seems to be having a very good rookie season in the NCAA. Another player having a very good rookie year is Ryan Culkin. He has been my dark horse prospect for while now. He is tied for the defensemen scoring lead with Adirondack. He has quietly become one of the top defensemen for the baby Flames. When I was back East in November I got to watch Addy 3 games and Culkin a couple. The thing about him was he never really stood out for anything in particular, just regularly seemed to do his job quietly and be around the puck and pick up his points. He may turn into a good, solid D-man as he definitely seems to be doing well in Addy and getting praise from the coaches there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khrox Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 Personally I like Kanzig, as he brings a couple different elements to the table that no one else does. I realize his skating is average, at best, but it does seem to be improving from last year, the last time I watched him(~month ago). The thing I like best is his smarts (positioning) and he utilizes his wingspan and strength effectively to cover guys and keep the net area clear, plus his battle along the boards. He's never going to win a scoring title, nor lead rushes up the ice, but I think he could be a very effective D man for the Flames. I've caught a Hitmen game sinec that one (I believe we were both at the same game there) a little harder to focus on one guy when watching on TV but he seems to be continuing that path. I definitely agree that he wont be winning any scoring titles or likely even be in consideration for Norris (if he does make it to the NHL), but he is going to have a solid career as a punishing, physical D-Man. Anyone who drags 2 people out in a scrum as well gets bonus points with me. So far, best way to describe him is like Engelland with less defensive mistakes (and who knows, probably better offensive upside as well). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted January 14, 2015 Report Share Posted January 14, 2015 I agree on the status of the D. Yes I want more typically and specifically would like a consensus top prospect on D but I think the outlook on D for the flames is more then ok for the next 5 years at least. I agree on Hickey I think he is the Flames best defensive prospect and he reminds me, to a certain degree, of Brodie when I saw them at prospect camp. Brodie jump out right away and flashed a ton of potential in that first camp and I felt Hickey did the same. Both are excellent and effortless skaters who can dictate the play and pace of the game because they can cover for themselves. now I am not directly comparing the two as there are differences and Brodie's development is very rare but I think HIckey has a similar skill set. I also like Culkin but I'm undecided how much upside is there. I think he has an NHL package to his skill set but I don't see a huge amount of upside there like I do out of Hickey. Rafikov is the wild card and now with the KHL in so much trouble the Flames might actually have a steal on their hands. Rafikov likely fell in the draft, saw him ranked a lot higher, because the likelihood he ever saw NA was small but now with the Russian economy if the KHL falls on its face it could really benefit the Flames. Again, not sure if there is huge upside there but a solid pro skill set and if you get that in the 7th round you are laughing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kehatch Posted January 14, 2015 Report Share Posted January 14, 2015 I agree with the three you listed Cross. I also think Wotherspoon has NHL upside. I just don't think he has a high ceiling. Maatson and Gilmour are both dark horses as well. You could include Roy, though I think his upside is pretty limited. Like with Goalies (though to a lesser degree) finding good D is a matter of numbers more then high draft picks. Drafting and developing well is always important of course. But the best D often come out of the later rounds. Look at the Flames top 4 for proof of that. Or look at the TSN top 50 players. Over half of the D on the list were drafted in the 2nd round or later. That all said, I would feel a lot better with a marquee defensive prospect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandman8610 Posted January 14, 2015 Report Share Posted January 14, 2015 Morning guys, just a few observations from junior... It might sound a little hokey, but I feel like Roy in Brandon might be turning a corner defensively. Since klimchuk was traded here, he seems to have upped his game, being more defensively aware, but catching guys like Klimchuk in transition and stretching the opposing D out. I'm hoping for the sake of the Flames, he could be an average 2 way defender in the future. As for Kanzig, other than being a big body, I've now watched him play a few times here in Brandon and I haven't been overly impressed with him. Wasn't much more than a D zone banger who takes lots of PIMs. Strikes me as a slow, Engellend-type player, although I'm biased because the Wheat Kings are the home team. We also have an undrafted second pairing d man who plays here with Roy, named Colton Waltz. Reminds me a bit of Gio, even kinda looks like him. Generally a stay at home kinda guy, but is reasonable in his zone, can make a solid first pass, and can bang bodies hard without getting out of position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cccsberg Posted January 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2015 I agree with the three you listed Cross. I also think Wotherspoon has NHL upside. I just don't think he has a high ceiling. Maatson and Gilmour are both dark horses as well. You could include Roy, though I think his upside is pretty limited. Like with Goalies (though to a lesser degree) finding good D is a matter of numbers more then high draft picks. Drafting and developing well is always important of course. But the best D often come out of the later rounds. Look at the Flames top 4 for proof of that. Or look at the TSN top 50 players. Over half of the D on the list were drafted in the 2nd round or later. That all said, I would feel a lot better with a marquee defensive prospect. I agree getting a marquee D would be great, but as you mentioned, in reality, development is even more important. We should work on both tracks. This year with the indicated depth of the draft its a good chance to get a marquee player, plus, while continued D development is helping in the background. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cccsberg Posted January 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2015 Morning guys, just a few observations from junior... It might sound a little hokey, but I feel like Roy in Brandon might be turning a corner defensively. Since klimchuk was traded here, he seems to have upped his game, being more defensively aware, but catching guys like Klimchuk in transition and stretching the opposing D out. I'm hoping for the sake of the Flames, he could be an average 2 way defender in the future. As for Kanzig, other than being a big body, I've now watched him play a few times here in Brandon and I haven't been overly impressed with him. Wasn't much more than a D zone banger who takes lots of PIMs. Strikes me as a slow, Engellend-type player, although I'm biased because the Wheat Kings are the home team. We also have an undrafted second pairing d man who plays here with Roy, named Colton Waltz. Reminds me a bit of Gio, even kinda looks like him. Generally a stay at home kinda guy, but is reasonable in his zone, can make a solid first pass, and can bang bodies hard without getting out of position. Great to hear, I'm sure the Flames will also be looking at undrafted players for their Development Camps. Hopefully Roy comes around and can be a player for the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kehatch Posted January 14, 2015 Report Share Posted January 14, 2015 I have never liked Kanzig. Lots of people do. His speed is improving. He isn't just big, he is really mean and really strong. He is a smart enough player. But I think you need mobility and some two way play to be successful in the NHL today. I think you are looking at something between a Pardy, Gill, or Smid if he even makes it to the NHL, and you don't need to draft those guys in the second round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted January 14, 2015 Report Share Posted January 14, 2015 I agree kehatch, although to clarify he was drafted in the 3rd but your point stands. I've never been impressed and from what I've seen and heard since I'm still not but hopefully he surprises. That's the reason I didn't mention Seiloff, Kanzig or Mathason when you talk about D prospects as I'm not very high on any of them. I think in today's game you have to be able to skate and move the puck and all 3 struggle in this area. Even wotherspoon I think has limited upside at the NHL level. So while I agree there are options I think D is still a big priority because the flames have too many of the same type of Dman and need more diversity. It would be great if Roy could get going because from what I've heard and read he may not even be worth a contract at the end of the year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTech780 Posted January 14, 2015 Report Share Posted January 14, 2015 I agree kehatch, although to clarify he was drafted in the 3rd but your point stands. I've never been impressed and from what I've seen and heard since I'm still not but hopefully he surprises. That's the reason I didn't mention Seiloff, Kanzig or Mathason when you talk about D prospects as I'm not very high on any of them. I think in today's game you have to be able to skate and move the puck and all 3 struggle in this area. Even wotherspoon I think has limited upside at the NHL level. So while I agree there are options I think D is still a big priority because the flames have too many of the same type of Dman and need more diversity. It would be great if Roy could get going because from what I've heard and read he may not even be worth a contract at the end of the year. I don't know why but when I think of Roy, Joey Leach jumps to mind. I think Roy's development has stalled and that is concerning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 I don't know why but when I think of Roy, Joey Leach jumps to mind. I think Roy's development has stalled and that is concerning. Agreed. At least Roy was a 5th rounder and not a 3rd like Leach. Roy has looked good at times at the camps I've been too and it could just be a focus on an all around game that is stalling the numbers so it's not all lost. Just not overly optimistic either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 I have never liked Kanzig. Lots of people do. His speed is improving. He isn't just big, he is really mean and really strong. He is a smart enough player. But I think you need mobility and some two way play to be successful in the NHL today. I think you are looking at something between a Pardy, Gill, or Smid if he even makes it to the NHL, and you don't need to draft those guys in the second round. Kanzig was a 3rd round pick. That said, with the diminishing need for enforcers and fighting in general in the NHL, i think Kanzig's value dimishes too. I saw him as a potential low pair Dman who can bring the rough stuff, much like Derek Engellend. If he ever becomes more than that, i would be pleasantly surprised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meatpuppet42 Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 I agree that we could use some help in the defensive prospect pool so for the flames first pick in 2015 how about Jeremy Roy ( righthand shot ) Of course it depends were we end up on the list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khrox Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 Kanzig was a 3rd round pick. That said, with the diminishing need for enforcers and fighting in general in the NHL, i think Kanzig's value dimishes too. I saw him as a potential low pair Dman who can bring the rough stuff, much like Derek Engellend. If he ever becomes more than that, i would be pleasantly surprised. I already see him (at least after a year or two in the AHL) as an Engellend with more a bit more upside (better offensive instincts and at least when I've watched him less dumb penalties). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cccsberg Posted January 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 With the limited D injuries this year we've only had a chance to see Potter up from Addy. That's good for the Flames, and the prospects are still developing in Addy, but since we don't see them its hard to know what we have and how they are developing. The coach there has heaped a lot of praise on Culkin, and Wotherspoon, I believe. After the TDL if we're out of it I'd expect to see quite a few call-ups. If not then roll into playoffs (hopefully) and no new insights until Addy gets bounced or injuries. Next Summer and then Fall should be a lot more indicative as a couple more players should be in NA and there will be several graduations into the AHL. In addition there are quite a few RFAs and UFAs. UFA: Diaz, Potter RFA: Ramage, Acolatse, Cundari Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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