phoenix66 Posted June 15, 2013 Report Share Posted June 15, 2013 With all the discussion surrounding how good a job Feaster is doing, how he should be fired, etc i thought it may be an interesting topic to see how he ranks in terms of Calgary's history of GM's. Just who was the best and what legacy did they leave.Taking draft history and trades into account , I propose they stack up this way:Because this turned into a very long read, i'll give my rankings and summary first..you can read below for my reasons if you wish:1. Cliff Fletcher - obvious reasons- too long to list 2. Craig Button:brought in good talent, in hindsight did quite well on draft day, never got fleeced on a trade. his only gaffes were letting St Louis walk(and so did 30 others) and the Marc Savard trade which was more to do with the coach.The lineup that went to the finals in 2004 was largely his 3. Jay Feaster: he gets some benefit of doubt due to his prospects still being judged, but has not been fleeced on any trades, has not left much on the table on draft day and has been actively restocking the shelves.His record over this rebuild will jump or kill his ranking 4. Al Coates Could have been 3rd, but we almost lost the team under his watch. Got decent value in his trades,but left way too much on the table on draft day 5. Daryl Sutter - horrendous draft record, depleted the farm team, and his only 2 decent draft picks (Phaneuf and Backlund) were eclipsed by who he didnt take. Got fleeced on trades 6. Doug Risebrough - Abysmal draft record, Doug Gilmour- 'nuff saidCliff Fletcher - 1972 - 1991drafted and traded for great players, brought us our only Cup.Even trading away Brett HUll was key to bringing us the cup, the only knock I'd lay on him is he gave away Joey Mullen, thinking he was over the hillDoug Risebrough: 1991-1995Gutted the existing team and did nothing to restock the prospectsmade infamous Doug Gilmour trade - nuff saidNotable trade aways: Mark HUnter,Colin Patterson,Stephane Matteau,Brian Maclellan, Sergei Makarov, Craig Berube, Jeff Reese, Paul Ranheim, Gary Suter,Mike Vernon, Al Macinnis, Frank Musilnotable Aquisitions: Trent Yawney, Marc Mabscheid,Brian Skrudland(then lost him in the expansion draft!), Michael Nylander, James Patrick, Zarley Zalapski, Steve Chiasson, Rick TabaracciDrafted:Niklas Sundblad,Cory Stillman,Jesper Mattson,Chris Dingman,Denis GauthierInstead of:Martin Rucinski,Dean Mccammond,Ray Whitney, Sandis Ozolinsh,Jozef Stumpel,Ziggy Palffy,Sergei Gonchar,Martin Straka,Saku Koivu,Todd Bertuzzi,Jamie Langenbrunner,Bryan Mccabe,Brendan Morrison,Jose Theodore,Curtis Brown,Rhett Warrener,Marc DenisAl Coates 1995-2000(but including 2000 draft)Notable trade aways: Joe Nieuwendyk,Phil Housley,Rick Tabaracci,Steve Chiasson,Robert Reichel,Trevor Kidd,Gary Roberts,Valeri Bure,Sandy Mccarthy,Michael Nylander,Theoren Fleury,Chris Dingman,Travis Brigley,Notable Aquisitions:Jarome Iginla, Corey Millen,Tommy Albelin,Dave Gagner.Hnat Domenichelli,Marty Mcinis,Rick Tabaracci,Andrew Cassels. JS Giguere,Zarley Zalapski,Jason Weimer, Ken Wregget,Jarrett Stoll, Robyn Regehr,Marc Savard,Grant Fuhr, Bill Lindsay,Filip KubaDrafted:Derek Morris,Daniel Tkaczuk,Rico Fata,Oleg Saprykin,Brent KrahnInstead of: Daniel Briere,Cory Sarich, Sergei Samsonov, Marian Hossa,Dan Cleary,Scott Hannan, Brendan Morrow,Manny molhotra,Alex Tanguay,Robyn Regehr,Jiri Fischer,Scott Gomez,Martin Havlat,Barret Jackman,Nick Boynton,Brooks Orpik,Steve Ott,Justin Wiliams, Niklas Kronwall,Craig Button 2000-2003Notable trade aways: JS Giguere,Martin St Louis,Matt Pettinger(2nd round pick traded for Miika Elomo),Bill Lindsay,Cory Stillman,Valeri Bure,Fred Brathwaite,Derek Morris,Marc SavardNotable Aquisitions: Mike Vernon,Jordan Leopold,Craig Conroy,Rob Niedermeyer,Roman Turek,Chuck Kobasew,DEan Mccammond,Jamie Maclennan, Eric Nystrom(aquired pick in trade), Matt Lombardi(aquired pick in trade),Curtis Joseph,Chris Drury,Stephan Yelle,Andrew Ference,Shean Donovan,Mike CommodoreDrafted: Chuck Kobasew,Eric NystromInstead Of: Colby Armstrong, Derek Roy,Keith Ballard,Chris Higgins,Alexander SeminDaryl Sutter 2003-2010Notable Trade aways:Steve Begin, Chris Drury,Bob Boughner,Chris Simon,Marcus Nilsson,Denis Gauthier, Oleg Saprykin,Mike Commodore,Chris Clark,Toni Lydman,Dustin Johner,Steve Montador,Jason Wiemer,Jordan Leopold,Andrew Ference,Chuck Kobasew,Adrian Aucoin,Alex Tanguay,Matt Lombardi,Brandon Prust (twice!!), Dion Phaneuf,Dustin Boyd,Ian WhiteNotable Aquisitions: Rhett Warrener,Mikka Kiprusoff,Ville Niemmenen,Daymond Langkow,Kristian Huselius,Alex Tanguay,Craig Conroy(after he let him walk as UFA),Brad Stuart,Wayne Primeau,Mike Cammaleri,Rene Bourque,Olli Jokkinen, Jay Bouwmeester, Matt Stajan,Chris Higgins,Vesa Toskala,Ian WhiteDrafted:Dion Phaneuf,Kris Chucko,Matt Pelech,Leland Irving,Mikael Backlund,Greg Niemisz,Tim ErixonInstead of: Jeff Carter,Dustin Brown,Brent Seabrook,Zach Parise,Ryan Getzlaf,Brent Burns,Ryan Kesler, Mike Richards,Corey Perry,Cory Schneider,Mike Green,Steve Downie,James Neal,Paul Stastny,Michael Neuvirth,Jhonas Enroth,PK Subban,Tyler Ennis,John Carlson,Jake Allen,Slava Voynov,Ryan OreillyJay Feaster 2010 - nowNotable trade aways: Tim Erixon,Ales Kotalik,Robyn Regehr,Daymond Langkow,Jarome Iginla, Jay Bouwmeester,Notable aquisitions: Roman Horak,Chris Butler, Paul Byron,Lee Stempniak,Blair Jones,Cammy, Karri Ramo,Akim Aliu , Patrick Seiloff(aquired pick),Dennis Wideman,Brian Magrattan,mark Cundari, Reto Berra,Kenny Agostino,Ben Hanowskidrafted: Sven Baertschi,Mark JankowskiInstead of: Brandon Saad,Ty Rattie,Olli Maata,Cody Ceci Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDeeds Posted June 15, 2013 Report Share Posted June 15, 2013 Craig Button #2 ?? That win loss record sucks for starters. I would rank him about even with Doug at the bottom. There are many good reasons why he was shown the door fired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted June 16, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2013 Craig Button #2 ?? That win loss record sucks for starters. I would rank him about even with Doug at the bottom. There are many good reasons why he was shown the door fired. If youre going to use record as the main criteria, then doug jumps up to #2 but you have to look at the big picture. I knock him for not getting more for Savard, but other than that.. - he took over a team that had been out of the playoffs for 4 years, stripped of all its stars and nothing on the farm - he was given a salary budget of roughly $25 million when other teams were as high as 76 - he had a solid draft record, both his 1st rounders had solid nhl careers and brought in talent with trades, his first main one turned 4 spare parts into an all star goaltender - he established a deep russian scouting department, that was dismantled when sutter took over. Many star quality players are never discovered due to the size of russia, unless they play on high profle teams - the farm team won a calder under his watch with talent he had aquired With the exception of fletcher, hes the only calgary gm that brought in talent via draft and trades, the bulk of that 2004 team was his habiwork..the finishing touches were sutters. All the rest sucked at one or both of those avenues Ill admit on the surface had you asked me before I looked at all this id have had him down there too, but when you compare I think now had you given him a couple more years, with sutter as his coach and the payroll sutter was allowed to have, he'd have made more of a mark, our prospects would have been full and we would probably have a 2nd cup by now Its also statement to just how bad Sutter, risebrough and coates were.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted June 16, 2013 Report Share Posted June 16, 2013 Have to give Darryl more credit. 7 years out of the playoffs to the cup and then to consecutive playoff seasons. Sure it didn't end well but overal he did a ton for this team and sure did more than Button. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted June 16, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2013 Have to give Darryl more credit. 7 years out of the playoffs to the cup and then to consecutive playoff seasons. Sure it didn't end well but overal he did a ton for this team and sure did more than Button.I give him full credit...as a coach, he was a great coach and had he stayed there even 2 more years we likely would have won the cup. But as a gm he failed miserably. As his positives he picked up kipper, but even he couldnt have known he was getting a legend when he did that, I also give him credit for locking up the core. His failing was in loyalty, he did not recognize his aging core and kep trying to add pieces, the farm was decimated by his drafting. Everybody in the league knew that kipper hid lots of weaknesses but he never tried to fix the weaknesses.He let cammy walk the first time after a 39 goal season, todd bertuzzi played great for us and only wanted a 2 yr contract..ditto owen nolan.for reasons we may never know he made a panic trade with dion and the only piece of that trade still contributing for us is stajan. He was willing to make bold moves, thats his credit..but he didnt make smart ones. If you want to call his trades and personell moves a positive, i can see the argument..but there is no defending his drafting.. thats why i still have him behind button Believe me, I didnt start this thread to sing the praises of button..I actually expected him to be almost last, until I went through all the trades and draft picks.. it surprised me too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDeeds Posted June 16, 2013 Report Share Posted June 16, 2013 Don't see any credit for Dutter as he started/set up our Farm system. Before him we had a shared AHL team. Feaster gets all the credit now even though the deal(with Abbotsford) was all set up before him and everything was up and running. The only thing our farm was missing was a decent stock of prospects. All the previous GM's never bothered with or thought it was unnecessary for a farm system dedicated for the Flames use. Dutters infleunce extends way beyond his coaching record. People can ***** hooking all they want about Dutter trading away picks (2nds in particular), but what is the use of building up a big stock of those prospects if you don't have a place suitable to develop them all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kehatch Posted June 16, 2013 Report Share Posted June 16, 2013 I give him full credit...as a coach, he was a great coach and had he stayed there even 2 more years we likely would have won the cup. But as a gm he failed miserably. As his positives he picked up kipper, but even he couldnt have known he was getting a legend when he did that, I also give him credit for locking up the core. His failing was in loyalty, he did not recognize his aging core and kep trying to add pieces, the farm was decimated by his drafting. Everybody in the league knew that kipper hid lots of weaknesses but he never tried to fix the weaknesses. He let cammy walk the first time after a 39 goal season, todd bertuzzi played great for us and only wanted a 2 yr contract..ditto owen nolan.for reasons we may never know he made a panic trade with dion and the only piece of that trade still contributing for us is stajan. He was willing to make bold moves, thats his credit..but he didnt make smart ones. If you want to call his trades and personell moves a positive, i can see the argument..but there is no defending his drafting.. thats why i still have him behind button Believe me, I didnt start this thread to sing the praises of button..I actually expected him to be almost last, until I went through all the trades and draft picks.. it surprised me too You still aren't giving him enough credit. In 03/04 coaching and Kipper were the biggest factors in getting us into the playoffs and making the run to the cup finals. (Though he also brought on Nilson, Simon, and Nieminen without giving up much.) But he didn't just get us in. He kept us in for five seasons making us one of the most consistent playoff teams in the NHL. That was with three different coaches. Bringing on players like Langkow, Huselius, Tanguay, and Cammalleri kept us relevant and competitive. I don't want to rehash the Cammalleri argument, but it was defensible givin Cammalleri's salary demands and the opportunity to bring on a 1C (he hoped) in Jokinen. His panic moves starting with the Phaneuf trade along with his inability to turn the page on the existing core meant he left on a bad note. He was also neglectful of the future trading away picks/prospects and failing to develop or draft the right type of players (though as DD has said he set up a foundation to start that). So he doesn't get an A+ from me. But he was very solid when he arrived. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted June 16, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2013 Don't see any credit for Dutter as he started/set up our Farm system. Before him we had a shared AHL team. Feaster gets all the credit now even though the deal(with Abbotsford) was all set up before him and everything was up and running. The only thing our farm was missing was a decent stock of prospects. All the previous GM's never bothered with or thought it was unnecessary for a farm system dedicated for the Flames use. Dutters infleunce extends way beyond his coaching record. People can ***** hooking all they want about Dutter trading away picks (2nds in particular), but what is the use of building up a big stock of those prospects if you don't have a place suitable to develop them all? Thats actually incorrect. We had our own farm team in St John when Sutter became GM, it was at that time we gave it up and shared a farm with Carolina for 2 years until we got our own again in Omaha. Under Button, the St John Flames won a Calder Cup. To be fair to Sutter the decision to own a share a farm team falls on Ken King, but it was Sutters job to stock it, which he never did 1993-1994 Salt Lake Golden Eagles(IHL) Calgary/Hartford1993-2003 Saint John Flames Calgary2003-2005 Lowell Lock Monsters Calgary/Carolina2005-2007 Omaha Ak-Sar-Ben Knights Calgary2007-2009 Quad City Flames Calgary2009-2013 Abbotsford Heat Calgary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted June 16, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2013 You still aren't giving him enough credit. In 03/04 coaching and Kipper were the biggest factors in getting us into the playoffs and making the run to the cup finals. (Though he also brought on Nilson, Simon, and Nieminen without giving up much.) But he didn't just get us in. He kept us in for five seasons making us one of the most consistent playoff teams in the NHL. That was with three different coaches. Bringing on players like Langkow, Huselius, Tanguay, and Cammalleri kept us relevant and competitive. I don't want to rehash the Cammalleri argument, but it was defensible givin Cammalleri's salary demands and the opportunity to bring on a 1C (he hoped) in Jokinen. His panic moves starting with the Phaneuf trade along with his inability to turn the page on the existing core meant he left on a bad note. He was also neglectful of the future trading away picks/prospects and failing to develop or draft the right type of players (though as DD has said he set up a foundation to start that). So he doesn't get an A+ from me. But he was very solid when he arrived. good points, i could see an argument for him jumping over Coates, but i gave the edge to coates because Coates was handicapped by the old collective agreement, a sagging Canadian Dollar and the owners tight chequebook. AS well his trade record is slightly better , while both have brutal drafting records. Yes Sutter got us in , but aside from year 2 when we won our division we were a team that snuck in every year. his teams did not reflect the changing rules and his loyalty to making it all about Iggy killed us until it was too late. It was plainly obvious to everybody except him that our cup window closed under Keenan. When Brent came in is when the retooling should have started, even Brent saw that . While i give him full marks for going and getting Kipper, i dont for a second believe he knew we were getting THAT. both our tenders were injured and he wanted a quilaty guy to eat some games until Turek was healthy. Then he canme in and stole the job. he never played like that in San Jose, we caught lightning in a bottle and rode it for 9 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted June 16, 2013 Report Share Posted June 16, 2013 While i give him full marks for going and getting Kipper, i dont for a second believe he knew we were getting THAT. both our tenders were injured and he wanted a quilaty guy to eat some games until Turek was healthy. Then he canme in and stole the job. he never played like that in San Jose, we caught lightning in a bottle and rode it for 9 years. I think people need to remember that Kipper was an AHL all star and actually did play pretty well initially when he entered the NHL. You don't give up a 2nd round pick for a guy who is just gonna fill in for you if he just wanted someone to do that he could have easily picked up someone else. No doubt in my mind that Sutter knew he had someone who co hod play but probably not a future vezina winner. Like I said you are not giving him near enough credit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted June 16, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2013 I think people need to remember that Kipper was an AHL all star and actually did play pretty well initially when he entered the NHL. You don't give up a 2nd round pick for a guy who is just gonna fill in for you if he just wanted someone to do that he could have easily picked up someone else. No doubt in my mind that Sutter knew he had someone who co hod play but probably not a future vezina winner. Like I said you are not giving him near enough credit we're saying basically the same thing, he knew he was getting a decent goaltender. It was under Sutter he got his playing time in SJ. Probabaly knew hed fit in well with the system here and win us a few games, maybe push Roman for some playing time. I give Sutter Full marks for getting the goalie that fit his system, but nobody could have known this: Season Team Lge GP A PIM Min GA EN SO GAA W L T Svs Pct GP A PIM 2001-02 San Jose Sharks NHL 20 0 4 1041 43 2 2 2.48 7 6 3 465 0.915 1 0 0 2002-03 San Jose Sharks NHL 22 0 0 1199 65 1 1 3.25 5 14 0 472 0.879 - - - turns into THIS 2003-04 Calgary Flames NHL 38 1 15 2300 65 4 4 1.70 24 10 4 901 0.933 - - - and this was actually i think part of his downfall, he rode this one trade for years and people always agreed with his ways because "he did get kipper after all" you take away this one trade, and his entire legacy changes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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