kehatch Posted April 9, 2012 Report Share Posted April 9, 2012 You guys pulled yourselves out of a real hole and almost accomplished the statistically improbable (I hate stats but this is a case where they make a point). I know it sucks but for the last few months your team DID find ways to win. And it makes me question the merit of a rebuild. Especially after seeing some of your younger players come up for a few games and a sniff at the big leagues. Except there are 82 games in a season and we did the same thing a year ago. Not to mention our two best players are in their mid thirties, will be another year older, and are at the ends of their contracts. Plus we have a real need to improve our farm. Not to mention that we barely scraped by in the wins we did have. The list goes on and on and even most of the optimistic supporters are seeing a real need for change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bosn111 Posted April 9, 2012 Report Share Posted April 9, 2012 Kehatch, how can you say "most of the optimistic supporters are seeing a real need for change" when there is so much argument still going on in these forums about who should and should not be traded? MOST of the people calling for the major shakeups are the same people who have been calling for it over the past 2 seasons. The only changes I have really seen in ANYBODY is that some of the most optimistic fans, I include myself in this list, are able to look at certain situations and agree that there could be benefit in making certain changes but NOT stating that there is a NEED to make these big changes. Sure there is need for some sort of change. A trade or a UFA signing constitutes a change so I guess yes change is needed, but not the huge sweeping changes that some of you are calling for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CastleMania Posted April 9, 2012 Report Share Posted April 9, 2012 Kehatch, how can you say "most of the optimistic supporters are seeing a real need for change" when there is so much argument still going on in these forums about who should and should not be traded? MOST of the people calling for the major shakeups are the same people who have been calling for it over the past 2 seasons. The only changes I have really seen in ANYBODY is that some of the most optimistic fans, I include myself in this list, are able to look at certain situations and agree that there could be benefit in making certain changes but NOT stating that there is a NEED to make these big changes. Sure there is need for some sort of change. A trade or a UFA signing constitutes a change so I guess yes change is needed, but not the huge sweeping changes that some of you are calling for. Nope, you're wrong. The squeaky wheel has gotten squeakier, so now all four wheels are squeaky. Or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
senor_incendiarse Posted April 9, 2012 Report Share Posted April 9, 2012 I think you could see that on Feaster's face too. He didn't look too pleased. These guys are bum idiots. I am soooooo mad and disappointed in them. Where was this effort when they were fighting for a spot? With the lottery, they had a possibility of moving up a spot or two, three or four as well and move down as much as one. So this just has me. I am fed up with them. I just don't get it. It's always easier to relax when nothing can be lost. Butler made the statement after the Wild loss that they're afraid of losing, so based on that it was probably the 2 easiest games for the team to play. I would have liked an earlier pick for sure but I'm not filled with rage over it like some. I also feel that many crying over draft position are only doing something out of something I call Oiler Envy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freerider-316 Posted April 9, 2012 Report Share Posted April 9, 2012 It's always easier to relax when nothing can be lost. Butler made the statement after the Wild loss that they're afraid of losing, so based on that it was probably the 2 easiest games for the team to play. I would have liked an earlier pick for sure but I'm not filled with rage over it like some. I also feel that many crying over draft position are only doing something out of something I call Oiler Envy. Oiler envy? Nah. These people just see less value in wins once the playoffs are out of the question. Which makes sense, I think once the Flames were eliminated everyone in your management ranks was hoping for nothing but losses. The games don't mean anything unless you've paid money to go see them with your son or daughter. There is no such thing as envying a toilet pick. Let me tell you right now that I wanted to see my team place 10th-7th this season. Reasonable expectations and disappointing ends. Anybody enduring bottom 5 knows that it's not even frustrating, it's flat out disinteresting. This being said I have high hopes for next year for our team, and yours too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CastleMania Posted April 9, 2012 Report Share Posted April 9, 2012 The games don't mean anything unless you've paid money to go see them with your son or daughter. You mean they only matter to the people who spend their money and make the team profitable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
senor_incendiarse Posted April 9, 2012 Report Share Posted April 9, 2012 Oiler envy? Nah. These people just see less value in wins once the playoffs are out of the question. Which makes sense, I think once the Flames were eliminated everyone in your management ranks was hoping for nothing but losses. The games don't mean anything unless you've paid money to go see them with your son or daughter. There is no such thing as envying a toilet pick. Let me tell you right now that I wanted to see my team place 10th-7th this season. Reasonable expectations and disappointing ends. Anybody enduring bottom 5 knows that it's not even frustrating, it's flat out disinteresting. This being said I have high hopes for next year for our team, and yours too. I don't think they were hoping for losses, as it was said near the end that the Flames needed all the help they could get to make the playoffs. Well it turns out the help came at the wrong time, as much as we won to move up others lost to move out unlike the Flames they all still had something to play for on Thursday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freerider-316 Posted April 9, 2012 Report Share Posted April 9, 2012 You mean they only matter to the people who spend their money and make the team profitable? I should have proofread that. Nah what I mean is that unless you're the four year old child hanging out with his/her mom or dad at the game you have longer distant views on the value of a loss over a win. I'm sure every flames/oilers fan was torn a week ago between win for now and lose for later. Anyhow I gotta get back to writing a capstone paper. Good talking to ya guys on your board, it's friendly over here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyerfan52 Posted April 9, 2012 Report Share Posted April 9, 2012 Kehatch, how can you say "most of the optimistic supporters are seeing a real need for change" when there is so much argument still going on in these forums about who should and should not be traded? MOST of the people calling for the major shakeups are the same people who have been calling for it over the past 2 seasons. The only changes I have really seen in ANYBODY is that some of the most optimistic fans, I include myself in this list, are able to look at certain situations and agree that there could be benefit in making certain changes but NOT stating that there is a NEED to make these big changes. Sure there is need for some sort of change. A trade or a UFA signing constitutes a change so I guess yes change is needed, but not the huge sweeping changes that some of you are calling for. I've noticed a few that used to be optimistic go over to the "trade everyone & hope that we'll be better in 5 years" side but enough newer posters have arrived to maintain the balance. We can all see changes that would help the team but we optimists believe that is the way to improve rather then start over like an expansion team. We are in favor of moves to strengthen the team rather then deliberately weaken them hoping for a higher draft pick. I personally prefer to have playoff hopes as the end of the season approaches. Drafting 14th shows how close we are to being a playoff team. IMO it beats viewing the bingo game to determine draft order as equivalent to playoffs. A #1 overall pick for being the worst team does not = a Stanley Cup. Fans of legit teams are embarrassed to finish that low so only fans of the deliberate tankers see it that way. Even those sad excuses have some fans that are disgusted that the management of their team has gone to those despicable tactics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kehatch Posted April 9, 2012 Report Share Posted April 9, 2012 I've noticed a few that used to be optimistic go over to the "trade everyone & hope that we'll be better in 5 years" side but enough newer posters have arrived to maintain the balance. We can all see changes that would help the team but we optimists believe that is the way to improve rather then start over like an expansion team. We are in favor of moves to strengthen the team rather then deliberately weaken them hoping for a higher draft pick. I personally prefer to have playoff hopes as the end of the season approaches. Drafting 14th shows how close we are to being a playoff team. IMO it beats viewing the bingo game to determine draft order as equivalent to playoffs. A #1 overall pick for being the worst team does not = a Stanley Cup. Fans of legit teams are embarrassed to finish that low so only fans of the deliberate tankers see it that way. Even those sad excuses have some fans that are disgusted that the management of their team has gone to those despicable tactics. Not many want to tank. But most posters acknowledge that change of some sort is needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
returnofthejets Posted April 9, 2012 Report Share Posted April 9, 2012 Winning the last couple games at the end when it didn't matter is about as meaningful to me as a preseason win. But I still want to see the guys show up and give it their best. You don't roll over for nobody, never. In the end falling back a few spots doesn't change much of the grand picture. But I will admit if a prospect gets picked at 13 that I like I'll be upset...but not as upset as I'd be if he was there at 14 and Feaster's selection was in a different direction and off my board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oillio Posted April 9, 2012 Report Share Posted April 9, 2012 I've noticed a few that used to be optimistic go over to the "trade everyone & hope that we'll be better in 5 years" side but enough newer posters have arrived to maintain the balance. We can all see changes that would help the team but we optimists believe that is the way to improve rather then start over like an expansion team. We are in favor of moves to strengthen the team rather then deliberately weaken them hoping for a higher draft pick. I personally prefer to have playoff hopes as the end of the season approaches. Drafting 14th shows how close we are to being a playoff team. IMO it beats viewing the bingo game to determine draft order as equivalent to playoffs. A #1 overall pick for being the worst team does not = a Stanley Cup. Fans of legit teams are embarrassed to finish that low so only fans of the deliberate tankers see it that way. Even those sad excuses have some fans that are disgusted that the management of their team has gone to those despicable tactics. wow you really think teams tank on purpose? smh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis23 Posted April 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 10, 2012 Well Dumba just went down to 11. With the 11th pick, might have had a chance to get him. I hope by a miracle he's still available by 14th.. but I really doubt it. He'd fit perfectly here as the next Phaneuf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crzydrvr Posted April 11, 2012 Report Share Posted April 11, 2012 Well Dumba just went down to 11. With the 11th pick, might have had a chance to get him. I hope by a miracle he's still available by 14th.. but I really doubt it. He'd fit perfectly here as the next Phaneuf. Is that necessarily a good thing? I seem to remember a particular quote from THN is an old article talking about Phaneuf: The sky wasn't the limit; it was the starting point. For a guy whose upside was space-high, from where he was once to where he is now is completely different. If it means we have to go through that again, I don't necessarily want another one.... A #1 overall pick for being the worst team does not = a Stanley Cup. Fans of legit teams are embarrassed to finish that low so only fans of the deliberate tankers see it that way. Even those sad excuses have some fans that are disgusted that the management of their team has gone to those despicable tactics. I just want to point out that from every first overall pick of the past 15 years, only 4 have won the Cup: 1 is the best player in the game, another PLAYS with the best player in the game, and another has gone from 100 point scorer to 65 point second liner. You can tell me all about how great your RNH-Hall-Yakupov top line is, but having a first overall pick doesn't mean anything except that you were so bad that you basically earned it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tachaudh Posted April 11, 2012 Report Share Posted April 11, 2012 Craig Button has us picking Radek Faksa at number 14. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted April 11, 2012 Report Share Posted April 11, 2012 Craig Button has us picking Radek Faksa at number 14. Will he be the "best player available" at 14th? He's another LW so he better be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CastleMania Posted April 11, 2012 Report Share Posted April 11, 2012 Will he be the "best player available" at 14th? He's another LW so he better be. At 14th do you think BPA is necessarily the best drafting option? Do you think that the 14th best player will be significantly (if even noticeably) different from the 15th, 16th, or 17th? A good example is Baertschi. A lot of people would have preferred we pick someone else. But I think from what we have seen thus far (admittedly not much) we picked the right player. I think outside the top 2-3 maybe even top 5-6, BPA is not necessarily the best approach because the BPA at that point becomes more subjective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted April 11, 2012 Report Share Posted April 11, 2012 At 14th do you think BPA is necessarily the best drafting option? Do you think that the 14th best player will be significantly (if even noticeably) different from the 15th, 16th, or 17th? A good example is Baertschi. A lot of people would have preferred we pick someone else. But I think from what we have seen thus far (admittedly not much) we picked the right player. I think outside the top 2-3 maybe even top 5-6, BPA is not necessarily the best approach because the BPA at that point becomes more subjective. Baertschi is a good example of BPA. Our organizational needs were RWs, Centers, and Right Handed Dmen, but we went with a LW in Baertschi even though we already have LWs like Ferland and Howse in the system. Plus, Tanguay and Glencross signed long term. We really do not need another LW in Faksa unless he's undeniably the best player available and could have massive trade value later on in his development because this organization can make things easier on themselves by drafting a player who naturally fits RW, C, or RH D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTech780 Posted April 11, 2012 Report Share Posted April 11, 2012 Baertschi is a good example of BPA. Our organizational needs were RWs, Centers, and Right Handed Dmen, but we went with a LW in Baertschi even though we already have LWs like Ferland and Howse in the system. Plus, Tanguay and Glencross signed long term. We really do not need another LW in Faksa unless he's undeniably the best player available and could have massive trade value later on in his development because this organization can make things easier on themselves by drafting a player who naturally fits RW, C, or RH D. Faksa has been listed as a center all season this is the first time I have seen him liste as a LW. The Kitchener Rangers website has him listed as a center. I am on board with drafting Faksa if he is available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted April 11, 2012 Report Share Posted April 11, 2012 Faksa has been listed as a center all season this is the first time I have seen him liste as a LW. The Kitchener Rangers website has him listed as a center. I am on board with drafting Faksa if he is available. If he's a C, then that changes everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis23 Posted April 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 11, 2012 If he's a C, then that changes everything. Faksa's a C. Even BUtton suggested we pick him only because he's a C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
returnofthejets Posted April 11, 2012 Report Share Posted April 11, 2012 I wouldn't get Button's mock draft selections carved in stone as I believe a lot of that will change. I think for a guy that spends his days analyzing and prepping for these things he sure seems to sometimes have no idea of what each team needs or what the BPA is. I look at his selections outside of the first few picks which are typically obvious as if maggie the monkey did the mock draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DL44 Posted April 11, 2012 Report Share Posted April 11, 2012 Peoples... When are gonna change the title of this thread??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis23 Posted April 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 11, 2012 I still think we need to trade up a few ranks to get Dumba. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crzydrvr Posted April 11, 2012 Report Share Posted April 11, 2012 Now that I'm sure we're picking 14th, I'd like a Cody Ceci, please. Or Derrick Pouliot. Or if those don't work, Pontus Aberg works out for me too. Swedish forward who skates and drives the net hard, and really has a knack for scoring. We seem to lack some of that beyond our top line....I've heard some comparisons to Marcus Johansson out of WSH, if he has that kind of impact for us then I'm all ears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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