geos Posted July 13, 2011 Report Share Posted July 13, 2011 Which really has nothing to do with anything in this thread. Sure there is. There a ton of kids with a piss poor attitude around this league. If you're getting paid tens of thousands to play every night, you better show up in a big way. Getting drunk at 2am prior to a game, showing up to camp out of shape, it's all unacceptable. I don't buy these excuses for these kids. They have access to elite trainers, coaches and guidance anytime they want it. They need to take some responsibility. Just like the smokers amongst the players, I just can't stand it. If your living is being in shape and being in elite shape, you better be in elite shape, or go home and do something else for a living. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baalzamon Posted July 13, 2011 Report Share Posted July 13, 2011 I think James Martin has a really good chance of playing on the Heat next season. Even if none of Negrin, Brodie, Wilson, or Henry make the flames, the Heat still only have 5 defensemen (those 4 plus Breen). cross, what do you think Negrin's chances of making the NHL next year are if he stays healthy? Is he closer than Brodie? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kehatch Posted July 13, 2011 Report Share Posted July 13, 2011 Sure there is. There a ton of kids with a piss poor attitude around this league. If you're getting paid tens of thousands to play every night, you better show up in a big way. Getting drunk at 2am prior to a game, showing up to camp out of shape, it's all unacceptable. I don't buy these excuses for these kids. They have access to elite trainers, coaches and guidance anytime they want it. They need to take some responsibility. Just like the smokers amongst the players, I just can't stand it. If your living is being in shape and being in elite shape, you better be in elite shape, or go home and do something else for a living. It may be true in the happy purple place with pink roses and fairies, but in the real world a teenager is a teenager. Your example proves one thing. If Brett Sutter, one of the hardest working prospects on the planet and a guy in one of the most established families in hockey, can succumb to temptation then its pretty much true for the majority of young prospects. I am sure Howse thought we was fit. This is his awakening. If he hasn't improved some by September, and even more by next summer, then I will agree that he lacks work ethic. But giving up on one of our top prospects because he is slightly behind the curve in fitness is impractical. Making sure he understands the expectations and making sure he has the resources to fix the problem is responsible management. Deriving that Howse is irresponsible, lazy, or lacks character based on a brief media snippet from a conditioning camp is just a silly over-reaction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted July 13, 2011 Report Share Posted July 13, 2011 I think James Martin has a really good chance of playing on the Heat next season. Even if none of Negrin, Brodie, Wilson, or Henry make the flames, the Heat still only have 5 defensemen (those 4 plus Breen). I agree, at the very least he should get a shot at main camp. I thought there was enough there to at least warrant a shot at the AHL. cross, what do you think Negrin's chances of making the NHL next year are if he stays healthy? Is he closer than Brodie? If he stays healthy than yes I think he is becuase i think he has the size and defensive ability to do it. He won't impact the game offensivly like Brodie woudl obviously, but i think the coaching staff woudl trust him before Brodie. I just think its so hard to say without seeing him play with some consistancy in the A first, but from just a skill/vision standpoint i do think he is closer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baalzamon Posted July 13, 2011 Report Share Posted July 13, 2011 I just realized I forgot about Joe Piskula when naming the Heat's defensemen, but even with him, there will likely be room on the roster for Martin since the Flames like to carry 8 defensemen (or they did last year, anyway). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geos Posted July 13, 2011 Report Share Posted July 13, 2011 It may be true in the happy purple place with pink roses and fairies, but in the real world a teenager is a teenager. Howse is 20 years old, not 15. At that age, it's not unreasonable to be expected to stand up and take some initiative. Did he consult with trainers at the end of last season? Has he checked in with them to see where he stands versus where he should be. At 20, you can be expected to look after yourself to some extent, or at least know when to seek feedback in advance of it becoming a major issue. Your example proves one thing. If Brett Sutter, one of the hardest working prospects on the planet and a guy in one of the most established families in hockey, can succumb to temptation then its pretty much true for the majority of young prospects. I don't disagree, but why does this culture exist? It's unhealthy. If the team was ok running (or at least not stopping) some rookie drinking fest at 2am prior to a game (how well can you play after being passed out in a jail?), it makes me wonder if this has just become one big country club, where everyone just hangs out and has a good time. Winning games be damned. I know if I was blessed to have the opportunity to play in the NHL, I would probably not drink the whole damn season, let alone pass out drunk 15 hours prior to gametime. The kids in this league, and perhaps particularly the Flames, need to take the big picture of health and fitness more seriously if they want to reach full potential. Unlike us office people that can be fat and out of shape (though I'd probably say that does impact performance there too), these guys are paid 100% for their physical abilities. To not take that seriously for the 82 big days of the year is kind of disrespectful of the opportunity they've been given. I am sure Howse thought we was fit. This is his awakening. If he hasn't improved some by September, and even more by next summer, then I will agree that he lacks work ethic. But giving up on one of our top prospects because he is slightly behind the curve in fitness is impractical. Making sure he understands the expectations and making sure he has the resources to fix the problem is responsible management. Deriving that Howse is irresponsible, lazy, or lacks character based on a brief media snippet from a conditioning camp is just a silly over-reaction. Like I said, I think at 20 (and he's been playing at a top level, with top trainers, for awhile now) some responsibility has to fall on his shoulders. Maybe you're right and he should be cut some slack (is Howse the last out of the practice facility? He should be until he's in shape like the others... I'd expect him to be working his apple twice as hard now) for this one slip up. But it should be a short leash. I just can't imagine going into the biggest tryout of my life so far below others in terms of fitness. How can you possibly expect to compete for a place on an NHL team in that state? If he struggles to balance WHL life and hockey, it's going to be much tougher to balance NHL life and hockey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ring-a-ding-dong-dandy Posted July 13, 2011 Report Share Posted July 13, 2011 Howse moved to Clagary this summer to train with Hesketh, that says alot about him right there. I also think too much is being made of what Feaster said he said he needs to work on nutrition; I can see how one would make the leap to Feaster thinking he needs to lose weight, but it could be as small as eating better to increase energy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted July 13, 2011 Report Share Posted July 13, 2011 I agree its time to stop belitting Howse based on incomplete and unknown information. I said it looked like he had conditioning issues and Feaster mentioned nutrition. Its not like he is a balloon out there he looks like he is in shape and as Ring mentioned he moved here to work out with Hesketh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demonous_Xodus Posted July 13, 2011 Report Share Posted July 13, 2011 I like how Geos is talking about how Howse and them should talk act like professional men and always do the right thing and all, but then suggests we should treat them like babies because we can't trust them enough to be professional men. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kehatch Posted July 13, 2011 Report Share Posted July 13, 2011 ... of it becoming a major issue. ... so far below others in terms of fitness These are examples of the exaggeration. Where was it said that this is a major issue? Where was it said that Howse is so far below others in terms of fitness? From everything I have seen Howse has a very high work ethic and is very committed. As Ring said he is relocating to train with an established trainer. To me it sounds like he just needs a bit of help on nutrition and conditioning. Some guys need help on skating. Some need to put on size. Some need help in transitioning to adulthood now needing to cope with buying their own food, cleaning their house, paying the builds, etc. Some need help on nutrition and fitness. Mental state, nutrition, fitness, and skill development are all part of developing an elite athlete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenny76 Posted July 13, 2011 Report Share Posted July 13, 2011 I agree its time to stop belitting Howse based on incomplete and unknown information. I said it looked like he had conditioning issues and Feaster mentioned nutrition. Its not like he is a balloon out there he looks like he is in shape and as Ring mentioned he moved here to work out with Hesketh. I'm with you cross, How can we judge the kid with out the fitness reports, Howse could have been doing to much wieght training, Not enough cardio, every one of these guys are being told to put on a huge amount of mass. As for nutrition I don't care who you are, It's going to be an adjustment going from cooking for taste, to cooking for health. All these players will cheat & they will find the balance between the two. He's been here training for a month, lets give the kid a break! He's a late round pic who's doing something right to have developed into one of our best prospects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyB12 Posted July 13, 2011 Report Share Posted July 13, 2011 wow when I posted that Peter Loubardias pretty much called him fat I didn't think that it would turn into a Howse bashing...Next time ill choose my words more careful. Give the kid a break!!! It's not like he's Feaster size or really really out of shape, As they discussed in the interview. Im sure when Feaster called him out it was about nutrition and just to tighten up the frame a little bit. Everyones body develops diffrent,Sure he may have a few un needed pounds but Once he settles into living in Calgary and a few months of solid training that little kegger will dissapear..Im pretty sure the kids not going to Eat his career away. As for Brett Sutter who was in tip top shape His father and uncle most likley told him he wasn't going to play the next game..Not saying thats any excuse to go out and make the team look bad but I get it.. He was watching alot of games from the press box last year. Hockey players are Human aswell no ones perfect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baalzamon Posted July 13, 2011 Report Share Posted July 13, 2011 I like it that out of all the players in the camp only ONE has concerns with conditioning. At least that's what i get from all these comments. didn't Bill Arnold have some conditioning issues in his draft year and that was one of the reasons he fell? Does he look more conditioned now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demonous_Xodus Posted July 13, 2011 Report Share Posted July 13, 2011 If Kyle Wellwood can play in the NHL, so can Howse. (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted July 13, 2011 Report Share Posted July 13, 2011 I like it that out of all the players in the camp only ONE has concerns with conditioning. At least that's what i get from all these comments. didn't Bill Arnold have some conditioning issues in his draft year and that was one of the reasons he fell? Does he look more conditioned now? I don't recall it being anything about conditioning issues. I thought he fell becuase his foot speed wasn't great and he has very limited offensive upside. Things that I would say are all true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baalzamon Posted July 13, 2011 Report Share Posted July 13, 2011 I don't recall it being anything about conditioning issues. I thought he fell becuase his foot speed wasn't great and he has very limited offensive upside. Things that I would say are all true. okay. He seems to have solid 4th line potential though, and there's always a use for those guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyB12 Posted July 13, 2011 Report Share Posted July 13, 2011 I don't recall it being anything about conditioning issues. I thought he fell becuase his foot speed wasn't great and he has very limited offensive upside. Things that I would say are all true. Apparently Feaster thinks there is a little problem with his diet. http://forecaster.thehockeynews.com/hockeynews/hockey/playernews.cgi?Cgy Ryan Howse, LW/RW 2011/07/07: Flames GM Jay Feaster wants to see Ryan Howse take his diet more seriously. "If Ryan gets serious about his nutrition and trying to get a little bit lighter, we think he'll be fast-tracking to the NHL," said Feaster. "He's a guy who can finish. He sees the ice really well. He has great offensive instincts. The next big step for him is to recognize how elite level athletes train and how they take their nutrition seriously. That way he can get himself in a position where he can challenge for a spot." To Howse's credit, he has been training full-time with Flames strength and conditioning coach Rich Hesketh. Howse scored 50 goals and 83 points in WHL Chilliwack Bruins. We wouldn't be surprised if he spends a couple more seasons in the minors, but he's worth keeping an eye on. (Source: Calgary Herald) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baalzamon Posted July 13, 2011 Report Share Posted July 13, 2011 Apparently Feaster thinks there is a little problem with his diet. we were discussing Bill Arnold in those two posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyB12 Posted July 13, 2011 Report Share Posted July 13, 2011 we were discussing Bill Arnold in those two posts. I dont know how I missed that.. haha My bad boyz!!! It's been a long day must have had a case of dyslexia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted July 13, 2011 Report Share Posted July 13, 2011 okay. He seems to have solid 4th line potential though, and there's always a use for those guys. Could even be 3rd line. Arnold has good speed, he just doesn't have great agility but I think he could work on that. Wasn't trying to put him down I think he is a legitimate prospect I just know he has some issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ring-a-ding-dong-dandy Posted July 13, 2011 Report Share Posted July 13, 2011 Apparently Feaster thinks there is a little problem with his diet. http://forecaster.thehockeynews.com/hockeynews/hockey/playernews.cgi?Cgy Ryan Howse, LW/RW 2011/07/07: Flames GM Jay Feaster wants to see Ryan Howse take his diet more seriously. "If Ryan gets serious about his nutrition and trying to get a little bit lighter, we think he'll be fast-tracking to the NHL," said Feaster. "He's a guy who can finish. He sees the ice really well. He has great offensive instincts. The next big step for him is to recognize how elite level athletes train and how they take their nutrition seriously. That way he can get himself in a position where he can challenge for a spot." To Howse's credit, he has been training full-time with Flames strength and conditioning coach Rich Hesketh. Howse scored 50 goals and 83 points in WHL Chilliwack Bruins. We wouldn't be surprised if he spends a couple more seasons in the minors, but he's worth keeping an eye on. (Source: Calgary Herald) I don't worry about comments like this, like I said before nutrition could be to help with energy levels and getting lighter could mean losing muscle mass to get lighter. I remember when Dennis Gauthier had to lose something like 20lbs before he was going to be allowed to make the NHL club because his muscle mass was too much for his frame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baalzamon Posted July 14, 2011 Report Share Posted July 14, 2011 Could even be 3rd line. Arnold has good speed, he just doesn't have great agility but I think he could work on that. the good news on this front is he still has (I believe) 2 more years of eligibility with NCAA, so a lot of time to work on the things that need improvement. Wasn't trying to put him down I think he is a legitimate prospect I just know he has some issues. I know, mate, don't worry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ring-a-ding-dong-dandy Posted July 14, 2011 Report Share Posted July 14, 2011 just thought this was interesting, I just noticed Ramage was wearing his dad's #55 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geos Posted July 14, 2011 Report Share Posted July 14, 2011 I don't worry about comments like this, like I said before nutrition could be to help with energy levels and getting lighter could mean losing muscle mass to get lighter. I remember when Dennis Gauthier had to lose something like 20lbs before he was going to be allowed to make the NHL club because his muscle mass was too much for his frame. Maybe, but Howse weighed in last season at 195. Unless he gained like 25 pounds of muscle, then that's unlikely the issue. Though kudos to him if he can. When you look at NHL player body fat percentages, there are places you can shed weight long before getting weaker. These aren't marathon runners or featherweight boxers. That said, I hope the kid can take the initiative to deal with his conditioning/nutrition/being too strong/being to fat/whatever it is issues quick. NHL spots don't wait for you to be ready. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baalzamon Posted July 14, 2011 Report Share Posted July 14, 2011 NHL spots don't wait for you to be ready. they do if you're a Detroit Redwing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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