Scornfire Posted September 21, 2013 Report Share Posted September 21, 2013 Well... the pro side of ledger... The Oilers have now effectively completely eliminated what's been plaguing them the last 20 yrs.... They ability to keep their star players. The core (with Yak and Schultz likely to be following suit) are guaranteed to be their property for the next 7-8 yrs and more importantly thru the primes of their careers. Pretty impressive "problem" to have. The amazing part of it - what will a $6 mil contract mean in 4-5-6 yrs? If the cap fluctuates to 80-90 mil, $6 mil will be what 2nd liners will be making. Good for the Oilers and great for their fans. EDIT: Just read this elsewhere... Since 1990, the only teenagers to play 100 games that have a better ppg than The Nuge: -Crosby -Stamkos -Kovalchuk -Jagr Out of curiosity, do we know how many players averaged more TOI than Nuge in those first 100 games? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted September 21, 2013 Report Share Posted September 21, 2013 EDIT: Just read this elsewhere... Since 1990, the only teenagers to play 100 games that have a better ppg than The Nuge: -Crosby -Stamkos -Kovalchuk -Jagr OMG, Unbelievable. Please don't tell me what you were reading. First of all, RNH didn't play 100 NHL games as a teenager. Sorry. But, it's kind of an important point to your stat. Secondly, did you Just do a comparison of RNH's first two seasons, totaling 76 points, to Crosby's, which totalled... 222 points (at a younger age)? LOOK. The reason guys like Ovechkin, and Kane (who did actually have more points than RNH as a teenager), and Toews, and other actual stars aren't on that list, is because: It's a Huge mistake to throw them into first-line roles as teenagers right out of the draft. Exceptions to this are Crosby and Jagr. Not RNH. Hugely unfortunate. He will never be a healthy NHLer, he will never be a leader, he will never win a championship at any level of hockey. He has the Oilers to thank for that. And the whole disaster was televised on "Oil Change": How NOT to develop NHLers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kehatch Posted September 21, 2013 Report Share Posted September 21, 2013 As much as I hate the Oiler's I can't criticize the deal. Barring a catastrophe they were going to sign him long term. It was just a matter of whether it was now, in the season, or next off season. Waiting just added a risk that his value would go up. I do think the Oiler's are in trouble long term. You get to commit big long term contracts to 5 or 6 players total. That is your core. Currently the Oiler's have committed to Hall, Eberle, and RNH. They have Yakupov and Schultz who will be looking for the same 6-million dollar contract that is now their standard. Do you really want to invest 30-million long term around Hall, Eberle, RNH, Yakupov, and Schultz? That is three wingers (least important position), only one C, a D that can't play D, and no goalie. They can probably fit one more big contract. But that is pretty much their core. If they are smart they will work hard on trying to trade Yakupov for a young D with core potential. They also need to hope they can ink Schultz to a bridge contract to keep from having to give him big dollars right away. Then they need to find a goalie. Finally they need to hope like crazy that Gagner's season wasn't a fluke and he can produce as a top 6 C. Oh, and add depth. The Oiler's issue isn't a lack of skill, it is a lack of a well built team. I don't see a well built team in their future if they can't shake up their five at some point. But in terms of the RNH contract, I don't have any problem with it. They need him. And lets face it, we would LOVE to have him and that contract in Calgary. OMG, Unbelievable.... He will never be a healthy NHLer, he will never be a leader, he will never win a championship at any level of hockey. I commend you on your Oiler hate. But the OMG HE IS RUINED FOREVER schtuff is a little over the top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted September 21, 2013 Report Share Posted September 21, 2013 I commend you on your Oiler hate. But the OMG HE IS RUINED FOREVER schtuff is a little over the top. I need to channel it somewhere, kehatch. Besides, he is. You don't recover from repetitive shoulder injuries like his. His offensive production has been cut in half, and the rest of his game hasn't gotten any better either. You might consider my opinion over the top, but at least it's based on facts. The post I was responding to was fictional drivel. A complete lie at worst, careless make-believe at best. And it's being posted by an Oilers fan on a Flames forum. What? Which reminds me, I'll add another correction to that list of "100 game teenagers", and it's an important one: Alexander Daigle. Blew away RNH's numbers. And the comparisons don't stop there. Same issues with size, similar issues with injuries early in his career, same draft hype, same lack of success in playoffs and internationally. his only chance at a championship was the 2012 world juniors, but the Oilers thought it would be more important for him to help them finish last again, injure his shoulder, and fail to gain any international experience. And it showed in 2013, when he captained the first losing Canadian world juniors team in 14 years. He was all offense, no team, and negative defense. The last Canadian team to fail that badly starred the likes of Daniel Tkazcuk, Josh Holden, and Manny Moholtra. You can disagree with my opinion, you can tell me my attitude is poor, you can tell me I rely too heavily on "stats" (mathematical, unbiased reflection of reality), but the bottom line is that, my opinions are actually based on facts, and considering how outrageous some of my statements may sound (at the time they're written), I'm right Often. Enough that people get very upset if I even make mention of my track record. So, give me this thread. Use me for good, not evil. At least I won't upset the locals here. I don't even know why this thread is on the Flames forum anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kehatch Posted September 21, 2013 Report Share Posted September 21, 2013 RNH is an injury risk due to a reoccurring injury in an area known for reoccurring injuries. That is a fact. "He will never be a healthy NHLer, he will never be a leader, he will never win a championship at any level of hockey" isn't any more factual then the 100 game claim (which DL said he read, not that it was true). But I am not going to spend a lot of time or effort defending an Oiler. Rant away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted September 21, 2013 Report Share Posted September 21, 2013 I really like RNH as a player but I wouldn't have given him that deal. I would have done a bridge contract for a couple seasons to let him get healthy because personally I'm not convinced you save very much money by trying and locking these guys up Iike this. If you did a bridge say in the 3 to 4 range for a season or two was he really going to get that hch more than what he got? I think the idea of paying more now to save later isnt a sound logic I think it more or less works out very close in the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kehatch Posted September 21, 2013 Report Share Posted September 21, 2013 I really like RNH as a player but I wouldn't have given him that deal. I would have done a bridge contract for a couple seasons to let him get healthy because personally I'm not convinced you save very much money by trying and locking these guys up Iike this. If you did a bridge say in the 3 to 4 range for a season or two was he really going to get that hch more than what he got? I think the idea of paying more now to save later isnt a sound logic I think it more or less works out very close in the end. I think the Oiler's are lest concerned about total money saved and more concerned about the cap hit down the road. They want to get their 5 signed for 6 million or less so they still have the dollars to get some D and a goalie. I think they are also trying to avoid a situation where they have to pay someone more money then Hall. They set a decent precedent with Hall that will benefit them down the road. As long as they don't break it. The injury is the real question. If RNH is healthy he is worth that money today. If he can't recover from his injury he might never be worth that money. But they are the ones with the access to the doctors. I think it is a reasonable gamble. But time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted September 21, 2013 Report Share Posted September 21, 2013 I get that but I still just don't think the savings are there to warrant giving him all that mpey that frankly he didn't deserve. Chicago has managed just fine with getting their core locked up to contracts in the 6ish plus range and they actually proved themselves before they did. Just the way I would have done it that's all, I understand the reasoning behind it I just like players to earn their contracts as opposed to bent handed them and hoping they grow into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted September 21, 2013 Report Share Posted September 21, 2013 So far, The Flame's 2017 season has $0 accounted for in cap space. The Oilers have $18 million accounter for in Hall, Eberle, and Taylor. And, for a long time to come. All three have been injury prone from a very early stage in their career. All three still have considerable development to do before having what it takes to lead a championship team. And nobody to show them. Between the three, their physical play, team play, defence, leadership, and success at winning championships is mediocre at best, with Hall >> Eberle >>>>> RNH. And there's nobody up in Edmonton who's about to show them how. What are the chances of all three injury prone players turning out to be worth $6 million a few years from now? Well, if we look at players currently making $6 million, I'd say about a third of them end up being worth it. If even one of these guys falters, it's $9 million per head. For an eternity. I see the chances of all three being worth this money as next til nill. A guy like RNH has never won a championship, and is locked into Edmonton for the rest of his career. Whether he fails, or one of the other two fails, the result is the same. The Oiler's odds of long term success become incredibly small. Since RNH has never won a championship, has never led a team to success, and is confined to Edmonton for the rest of his career, is why I project that he will never see a championship or lead a team to success. Even if he IS healthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crzydrvr Posted September 21, 2013 Report Share Posted September 21, 2013 The only reason I don't like the deal is the risk management (or lack thereof). Love RNH as a player but he hasn't shown he can play a full season, or even consistently when healthy (the difference between the RNH of Dec. 2011 and the RNH since then are somewhat eye-opening). I can understand why they want the 6m contract, but that can be as much an albatross as it can be a goldmine. I would've gone with a bridge contract and then a 6.5-7m longterm one if he earns it. That way, if he doesn't work out you can move him, and if he does the only thing that happens is he gets the bigger deal (he's not yet good enough physically or all-around to justify any more than 6.5m even if he does produce at a 70-point pace; the only way it'd be higher is if he's above PPG, and I don't see that happening until he can withstand a full season) and maybe a few hearts are hurt because they got outpaid by a guy who came in after them. Both Hall and Eberle deserved their contracts (at the time, Hall was a PPG player while Eberle's had come right after his big 76-point season, so it made sense). RNH's contract comes right after a 0.6 PPG season, and he doesn't have the guts and physicality of a Hall or the defensive play of other star players to justify it. Now, if he doesn't work out the only option the Oilers have is taking on salary and taking on salary dumps, or buying him out. Neither option is very appetizing. Going all-in is a 50-50 chance, and they decided to take it. Now it remains to be seen whether Lady Luck is calling that bluff or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDeeds Posted September 22, 2013 Report Share Posted September 22, 2013 All three have been injury prone from a very early stage in their career.And nobody to show them. Between the three, their physical play, team play, defence, leadership, and success at winning championships is mediocre at best, with Hall >> Eberle >>>>> RNH. And there's nobody up in Edmonton who's about to show them how. Andrew Ference Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted September 22, 2013 Report Share Posted September 22, 2013 He might help Schultz. He's not going to help their first line, and they don't really have any other notable defensive prospects to speak of that he can mentor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Invin Posted September 22, 2013 Report Share Posted September 22, 2013 Really, Yakupov? Stick twirling, sword sheathing, and staring at the crowd after a goal in a pre-season game against prospects? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s4xon Posted September 22, 2013 Report Share Posted September 22, 2013 ^ Over the top, but it's funny to watch the CDC kick and scream and cry and spit when he did it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyerfan52 Posted September 22, 2013 Report Share Posted September 22, 2013 With Gagner out indefinately with a broken jaw RNH better stay healthy. Their center depth is worse then I thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted September 22, 2013 Report Share Posted September 22, 2013 When I described RNH, Hall, and Eberle as all injury prone, I just knew I was leaving somebody out. Hey, it's only $4.8 million. Kind of a freak injury. Kind of a result of all your stars being too small, as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDeeds Posted October 3, 2013 Report Share Posted October 3, 2013 He might help Schultz. He's not going to help their first line, and they don't really have any other notable defensive prospects to speak of that he can mentor. http://oilers.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=684740 Totally missed it with your prediction / thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted October 3, 2013 Report Share Posted October 3, 2013 http://oilers.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=684740 Totally missed it with your prediction / thoughts. Dirty....are you....like, an Oilers fan? Or just a Ference fan? Just because he was appointed baby sitter doesn't mean he's going to be able to show them how to win. I'm a huge fan of Ference as well, I wish he was a Flame, and I completely agree that he's the obvious choice. But for me to be wrong, at least, as was intended by what I wrote: They would at Least have to have Some sort of playoff success. Even winning a round, for instance. He's got great character and I think he'll help out a ton, but they've still got nobody to show their forwards how to win at that level. And outside of Schultz, they have very few defencemen worth teaching. "I think it's great," said Taylor Hall. "He's had a lot of experience winning and that's important for our group. We don't really have a lot of that " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted October 3, 2013 Report Share Posted October 3, 2013 With all the "experts" predicting a playoff berth for the Young Oilers, anything other than that will cast a dark cloud on the city. Fire shall fall from the heavens, dogs and cats living together, fire and brimstone, real wrath of God stuff. Seriously, I think they will win some, lose some, be blown out in some, blow out some, and at the end of the day, they will fall short of their goal. Since there will be a lot of man-games lost to injury, Eakins should survive the axe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDeeds Posted October 5, 2013 Report Share Posted October 5, 2013 http://oilers.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=684740 Totally missed it with your prediction / thoughts. Dirty....are you....like, an Oilers fan? Or just a Ference fan? Just because he was appointed baby sitter doesn't mean he's going to be able to show them how to win. I'm a huge fan of Ference as well, I wish he was a Flame, and I completely agree that he's the obvious choice. But for me to be wrong, at least, as was intended by what I wrote: They would at Least have to have Some sort of playoff success. Even winning a round, for instance. He's got great character and I think he'll help out a ton, but they've still got nobody to show their forwards how to win at that level. And outside of Schultz, they have very few defencemen worth teaching. "I think it's great," said Taylor Hall. "He's had a lot of experience winning and that's important for our group. We don't really have a lot of that " Why would you ask if I was an Oiler Fan?? Maybe you should take the time to read a few pages of this thread before you show your ignorance..... If you are incapable of grasping the influence Ference can have on the whole team(forwards included) then you don't understand the role a good captain can do for any team. He can teach all of them how to be a pro. He can demand the same dedication and effort from the rest of the team that he shows them every game. It does not matter that he is a DMan to mentor these type of traits on young Oilers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s4xon Posted October 5, 2013 Report Share Posted October 5, 2013 Lets keep it civil guys. No one wants to be labelled an Oilers fan here, but lets also tone down the personal intelligence comments too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted October 5, 2013 Report Share Posted October 5, 2013 I sincerely apologize for all references to being an Oilers fan...it was in jest. I am going to go out on a limb and assume that you are a Ference fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyerfan52 Posted October 5, 2013 Report Share Posted October 5, 2013 I don't know what the original scource was but the Wpg. Sun reports Hall was calling Trouba a headhunter after the Jets beat the Oilers. On the play Trouba (leading with his shoulder) attempted a body check that totally missed. Grab another towel Hall. Wait until a check connects before pulling out the crodile tears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted October 5, 2013 Report Share Posted October 5, 2013 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAiFbyt4wps Oh man, that is precious!!! ...Can't wait for Ference to fix this one, hey? Ference: "Hall, whenever I'm on the rush, trying to split two defencemen by myself, this is what I do...." Hall: "Ok Ference, I'll totally try that out next time" Ference: "Oh by the way Hall, if it doesn't work, don't be a whining, snovelling, bratty little child about it" Hall: "You mean on twitter, or when we're filming Oil Change?" Ference: " I mean all the time. But especially when you're making a fool of yourself on Whyte Ave before game nights." Hall: "Oh. That'll be hard" Lol,...if Ference can help the Oilers to become more graceful losers, and less childish about it, I would consider that a huge success on his part. But I'm not expecting to see them split the defence any better. Evidently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyerfan52 Posted October 5, 2013 Report Share Posted October 5, 2013 Surprised myself but had to give jj a + for that. Loved the "quote". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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