Oilers

[DirtyDeeds]

Lets see how the prophet Connor did with his predictions:

 

 

So the Oilers had a big advantage to start the season. Okay. It should be that much easier to show improvement then.

 

 

 

 

   

The Oilers failed to utilize the advantage. They didn't make the moves and they didn't have enough for a push to the playoffs.

  

 

 

Hows that Playoff spot look?? "Down there"???

 

 

 

ConnorFutureGM, on 08 Jan 2013 - 00:54, said:

  

Not many analysts are saying the Oilers should make the playoffs, they seem to think if will be a stetch.

    I said many times before that I think the Oilers would be close and if they make a move that they will make the playoffs. With the shortened season I don't think they have to make a move to make the playoffs anymore.

It appears the experts unlike you, got one thing right about the Oilers.




 

Haven't seen C_W around for a bit but he called it.. It's April Connor !!!!!!!!

 

Edit: corrected my spelling. My apologies.

[DirtyDeeds]

prophet Connors predictions con't:

 

Then there is this post where I called it on Feb 14. Oilers plummeting & out of playoffs.

 

 

 

Lets continue with Connors predictions:

So now that we played some of these untried prospects in the NHL and whipped the Oilers butt with them, I guess the speculation is over??? So you needed the game or pretty much be eliminted and your whole team (Including your #1 picks) fail to show!

 

So much for the accuracy...see above group of your posts!

 

 

 

 

The Oilers after their 2 losses to the Ducks are now on pace for 74.7 pts in an 82 game season. Last year the Oilers managed 74 points in an 82 game season. Where is the growth here Connor?? Where is the "Definately better" ????

 

Edit: corrected my spelling. My apologies.

[DL44]

Come deeds.. the improvement is obvious...  you stated it yourself... +0.7 so far.  They can still boost that BIG TIME with a couple more wins too.

 

The improvement is palpable.

[ConnorFutureGM]

Lets see how the prophet Conner did with his predictions:

 

 

So the Oilers had a big advantage to start the season. Okay. It should be that much easier to show improvement then.

 

- In hindsight, the advantage of playing during the lockout wasn't all it was cracked up to be. They still had an advantage where they were playing together but players like Schultz were gassed out in the home stretch.

 

   

The Oilers failed to utilize the advantage. They didn't make the moves and they didn't have enough for a push to the playoffs.

 

- I agree

 

 

Hows that Playoff spot look?? "Down there"???

 

- Obviously not happening. The were there but they lost three in a row then they lost all motivation.

 

ConnorFutureGM, on 08 Jan 2013 - 00:54, said:

  

It appears the experts unlike you, got one thing right about the Oilers.

 

Haven't seen C_W around for a bit but he called it.. It's April Conner !!!!!!!!

 

- Is it April? Spell my name right.

 

prophet Conners predictions con't:

 

Then there is this post where I called it on Feb 14. Oilers plummeting & out of playoffs.

 

- You didn't call that. A lot happened between Valentines day and today. Oilers had a playoff spot between "your prediction" and now. Are you needing to construe a post you made to boost your self esteem?

 

Lets continue with Conners predictions:

So now that we played some of these untried prospects in the NHL and whipped the Oilers butt with them, I guess the speculation is over??? So you needed the game or pretty much be eliminted and your whole team (Including your #1 picks) fail to show!

 

- Please. That game wasn't the "If we win this game, we're in the thick of it" game. Oilers were already morally defeated by losing 4 in a row before that game. I'll give the Flames credit (which is something you NEVER DO for the Oilers) that they played hard that game. Saying that because the Flames farm prospects were plentiful in a game they won means they are a great group of prospects is very short sighted.

 

So much for the accuracy...see above group of your posts!

 

- Oilers crapped the bed in the home stretch. It is what it is.

 

The Oilers after their 2 losses to the Ducks are now on pace for 74.7 pts in an 82 game season. Last year the Oilers managed 74 points in an 82 game season. Where is the growth here Conner?? Where is the "Definately better" ????

 

- Where's the better?

 

1. Taylor Hall is showing signs of being a top 10 scorer

 

2. Dubnyk has a great save %

 

3. Paajarvi and Gagner have improved offensive seasons

 

4. Oilers have two rookies that are Calder candidates

 

5. The Oilers special teams have improved

 

6. They were playing games that mattered in April

 

This is where how I misstated the Oilers season

 

1. Whitney - When he was in training camp media was making it out like he was flying around the ice. He is the Oilers worst defenceman this season and I had him pegged as a decent top 4 guy.

 

2. I said earlier that if the Oilers were able to get a better team save% they should be able to make the playoffs. They have the improved % but it was at the cost of offence.

 

3. There is a complete lack of support from the veteran players in Edmonton. Horcoff has been the best veteran, Hemsky had moments and Brown is doing ok in his role but players like Belanger, Eager, Jones, Hordichuk, Whitney and even N. Schultz are not only completely failing at leading the kids but they give no support whatsoever.

 

4. Again, playing during the lockout wasn't all it was cracked up to be. A lot of teams doing well didn't have a lot of players playing during the lockout.

 

5. Failure to act accordingly by management not once but twice. Management failed to bring in help when they could've used it and they failed to recognize the team as it was at the deadline. At the deadline, a team has to be either a buyer or a seller because being both of neither isn't good asset management. I thought this deadline was one of the rare times that the Oilers were suited for being neither but that ultimately proved wrong.

 

 

 

That's the difference between me and you. I can actually say I was right or I was wrong and also admit my team's faults. You're the one who is so full of bias you'd spend an extra $10 to get Oiler toilet paper. I may be younger but you're the one who needs to grow up.

[s4xon]

Come deeds.. the improvement is obvious...  you stated it yourself... +0.7 so far.  They can still boost that BIG TIME with a couple more wins too.

 

The improvement is palpable.

 

With Connor's glasses, that number reads +7

[DirtyDeeds]

Come deeds.. the improvement is obvious...  you stated it yourself... +0.7 so far.  They can still boost that BIG TIME with a couple more wins too.

 

The improvement is palpable.

Okay .. Okay I will grant you that point.... but they still have to win a couple of those remaining games.

 

So which one(s) can they win??

 

Chicago?? - I don't think so

Minny?? - Maybe but Minny needs the 2 points badly.

Canucks?? - Are to Nucks going to rest their senior citizens and coast that game? If so maybe.

 

I don't know, if you go to the Oiler Boards just about everyone is in full blown tanking mode. Its kind of a how Lowe can you go thing.

[s4xon]

You're the one who is so full of bias you'd spend an extra $10 to get Oiler toilet paper.

 

 

Best idea you've ever had Connor. +1

 

[DirtyDeeds]

That's the difference between me and you. I can actually say I was right or I was wrong and also admit my team's faults. You're the one who is so full of bias you'd spend an extra $10 to get Oiler toilet paper. I may be younger but you're the one who needs to grow up.

Well there you go again. Projecting stuff that just isn't true. I thought you were doing pretty good with that crow you were having to eat until you decided to throw in some insults at the end.

 

You didn't see me insulting you with anything like toilet paper references. It seems obvious who really needs to grow up Connor. You often claim to think of yourself as coming here for unbiased hockey talk ??

 

 

Ah yes here is one of many references you made:

[Cody1774]

I really hope this game, specifically the first period, really forces everyone to take a step back. This isn't a Flames fan coming in this thread just throwing trash at the Oilers, but I was really getting sick of all the talk from fans and media that this team was going to be amazing. All I've heard since the CBA papers were getting signed was how this was a team of destiny and how this team had finally arrived. I was even shaking my head watching that TSN opening. I know Duthie tried to back track a bit, but comparisons to Gretzky, Kurri, Messier? Geez, a little lofty, no? Can you all wait until they win something more than a lottery?

 

 

jusy sayin....

 

 

 

Right after I posted that Conner said let's wait until the end of the season to see if expectations were out of hand.  Well? 

[Crzydrvr]

- You didn't call that. A lot happened between Valentines day and today. Oilers had a playoff spot between "your prediction" and now. Are you needing to construe a post you made to boost your self esteem?

 

 

- Please. That game wasn't the "If we win this game, we're in the thick of it" game. Oilers were already morally defeated by losing 4 in a row before that game. I'll give the Flames credit (which is something you NEVER DO for the Oilers) that they played hard that game. Saying that because the Flames farm prospects were plentiful in a game they won means they are a great group of prospects is very short sighted.

 

- Where's the better?

 

4. Oilers have two rookies that are Calder candidates

 

6. They were playing games that mattered in April

 

That's the difference between me and you. I can actually say I was right or I was wrong and also admit my team's faults. You're the one who is so full of bias you'd spend an extra $10 to get Oiler toilet paper. I may be younger but you're the one who needs to grow up.

 

-Point is, he did say that the Oilers would drop out of the running before the year was out. Just because the Oilers were in a playoff spot at one point doesn't take away from that fact. He called the end result, not the path it took to get there. And he turned out to be right.

 

-More youngsters with skill, I'm sure they helped you make the playoffs. /s

 

It feels like the whole team is made up of young skilled players and only that, so it's not entirely shocking to me that Schultz and Yakupov are having decent seasons. Problem is, it hasn't seemed to translate to more wins. And the "We were in the playoffs at one point" argument doesn't matter because the season is a marathon, not a sprint.

 

As a fan of a team that was competing for the NW division title in 09-10 at the midway point of the season before having the rung bottom out afterwards, I can assure you that no one gives a f*ck how well you were doing earlier. Speaking from personal experience.

 

I'll give credit for making it to April, but then the Oilers shot themselves in the foot, so it really doesn't make them look any better. In fact, it looks even worse because now it feels like a choke job rather than the standard Oilers midseason slide pre-empting into a washout of a second half of the season, which is what it'd normally be over 82 games.

 

-I have never heard you say straight up that you are wrong. Even the times that you do admit you are, you usually pump them with snide remarks about the team/the organization/other posters. You also tend to counteract your complaints about your own team by comparing them to OUR team and then proceed to bash on the Flames while giving credit to the Oilers' young guns.

 

Flames fans are some of the most critical of our own team. We just hate it when people bash on us, because that's OUR job since we know our organization the best. Every fan's like that. You dislike Flames fans criticizing the Oilers, that's why you come up with counterarguments. We're not so different. No need to act all high and mighty.

 

"You're the one, you're the one" is a phrase used a lot by people who don't see the irony in their own actions. And you use a lot of this phrase, it's like a stock phrase for you on this forum.There are others who use it, but that doesn't justify acting like a snob.

 

As a side-note, this was originally an Oilers thread until guys started trying to compare the Flames to the Oilers in an attempt to save face. All it did was escalate the thread (not necessarily a bad thing). But seriously, did you not think that criticizing the Flames would bring in the bashers? On a Flames forum? Again, you're not the only one guilty of this, but you're not innocent either.

[AlbertaHockey]

Well Well,,, I want to thank you DD for your great working digging up the mud that Connor continues to spew, these past few threads have totally made my day.

 

I actually had to laugh at quite a few comments.

 

Connor has eaten so much crow that im sure he has feathers instead of hair coming out of his head.

Assuming he isn't bald,, whereas I guess he would be referred to a bald eagle..

 

Anyway I did a rough calculation and the score I see in the past few threads are 10-2 for DD..  (I was being nice too).

 

I really don't know why guys/gals like Connor really spout their emotional feelings in here when if they would just take the rose colored glasses off and talk legit good or bad about either team for me I would have more respect.

 

Anyway, Oilers got rid of Tambs, good start but they need to keep going,, ahem cough cough,,, fire Lowe cough cough... step two.

 

Really excited for the young players for Calgary, so far as I can see our rebuild wont take a decade like the Oilers are in for.

 

Gooo Flames...

[DirtyDeeds]

I would imagine it would look something like this:

[Carty]

Didn't Connor have a bet going somewhere here in this thread?

[DirtyDeeds]

Didn't Connor have a bet going somewhere here in this thread?

Yes and no. They never got around to clairifying it last time they talked about it, at least from what I read.

 

Edit:

they have a bet apparently just not sure what the sig bet part was.  Clearly he accepts the bet.

 

Replied To  ifiwaschucknorris : (Post 1312; Page 66)

[DirtyDeeds]

-Point is, he did say that the Oilers would drop out of the running before the year was out. Just because the Oilers were in a playoff spot at one point doesn't take away from that fact. He called the end result, not the path it took to get there. And he turned out to be right.

 

...

You are correct Crzy. I called him on the same thing a bit later in the thread too when I produced the graphs and downward trends of the Oilers. He refused to belive it that time too so there is no reason to believe he would accept the fact now when his Oilers are in tank mode for another pick.

 

Seems he has a different thought process for his forums but prefers to just argue or claim ignorance over in these forums.

[alicenchains]

Maybe "Diaper Change" should be the proper name for the show. 

 

Seriously though, get the cameras out of the locker room if you want the team to be serious. These kids don't need to have any more exposure until they actually accomplish something meaningfull. Ice a team that is deeper than 1 or 2 complete lines and people might care about the off-ice drama.

Haha I'm a die hard Oilers fan and that definitely made me laugh out loud,  I just hope the potty training looks better then the diaper changing.

[ConnorFutureGM]

Okay .. Okay I will grant you that point.... but they still have to win a couple of those remaining games.

 

So which one(s) can they win??

 

Chicago?? - I don't think so

Minny?? - Maybe but Minny needs the 2 points badly.

Canucks?? - Are to Nucks going to rest their senior citizens and coast that game? If so maybe.

 

I don't know, if you go to the Oiler Boards just about everyone is in full blown tanking mode. Its kind of a how Lowe can you go thing.

 

- On paper those are all losses for the Oilers and I still believe if you're not going to make the playoffs, you might as well get the best pick possible. Oilers will then likely win one out of the three to get them out of being able to draft an impact player.

 

Well there you go again. Projecting stuff that just isn't true. I thought you were doing pretty good with that crow you were having to eat until you decided to throw in some insults at the end.

 

You didn't see me insulting you with anything like toilet paper references. It seems obvious who really needs to grow up Connor. You often claim to think of yourself as coming here for unbiased hockey talk ??

 

 

Ah yes here is one of many references you made:

 

- I am disappointed in my teams performance this season and the lack of adequate adjustment from management. I also think Lowe is a douche and needs to go. I can say that about my team. Can you say that about your team? I had hope that is more or less lost that this thread could've been more intellectual in nature with sound debate about which team of Alberta's is headed in a better direction. Unfortunately it has become a crap on the Oilers thread littered with stupid pictures and comments. I admit I lost my cool pages ago and it became a poo throwing contest.

 

-Point is, he did say that the Oilers would drop out of the running before the year was out. Just because the Oilers were in a playoff spot at one point doesn't take away from that fact. He called the end result, not the path it took to get there. And he turned out to be right.

 

- No. What he stated was they were going to continue downward from that point which didn't happen.

 

-More youngsters with skill, I'm sure they helped you make the playoffs. /s

 

It feels like the whole team is made up of young skilled players and only that, so it's not entirely shocking to me that Schultz and Yakupov are having decent seasons. Problem is, it hasn't seemed to translate to more wins. And the "We were in the playoffs at one point" argument doesn't matter because the season is a marathon, not a sprint.

 

As a fan of a team that was competing for the NW division title in 09-10 at the midway point of the season before having the rung bottom out afterwards, I can assure you that no one gives a f*ck how well you were doing earlier. Speaking from personal experience.

 

I'll give credit for making it to April, but then the Oilers shot themselves in the foot, so it really doesn't make them look any better. In fact, it looks even worse because now it feels like a choke job rather than the standard Oilers midseason slide pre-empting into a washout of a second half of the season, which is what it'd normally be over 82 games.

 

- I disagree that crapping the bed at the end is worse. They played games that mattered later in the season which will help with development. It is worse from a fan standpoint to have your heart ripped out but at least us fans where able to care about games in April.

 

-I have never heard you say straight up that you are wrong. Even the times that you do admit you are, you usually pump them with snide remarks about the team/the organization/other posters. You also tend to counteract your complaints about your own team by comparing them to OUR team and then proceed to bash on the Flames while giving credit to the Oilers' young guns.

 

- The thing is there are so few posts on this thread now that are factual based. Dirty and Carty just crap on the Oilers and I become defensive and become just as bad as them which I admit is not good.

 

Flames fans are some of the most critical of our own team. We just hate it when people bash on us, because that's OUR job since we know our organization the best. Every fan's like that. You dislike Flames fans criticizing the Oilers, that's why you come up with counterarguments. We're not so different. No need to act all high and mighty.

 

"You're the one, you're the one" is a phrase used a lot by people who don't see the irony in their own actions. And you use a lot of this phrase, it's like a stock phrase for you on this forum.There are others who use it, but that doesn't justify acting like a snob.

 

- I'm not sure if Flames' fans are as critical as you say. I'd say the majority of Flames' fans approve of most Flames' moves. It might have something to do with the majority of the outsiders questioning Flames' moves which makes Flames' fans defensive and supportive.

 

- Acting like a snob? This thread has transformed into something that I did not want but instead of trying to diffuse it I contributed to it getting completely out of control. I'm going to try to start fresh to see if it can get to the right place.

 

As a side-note, this was originally an Oilers thread until guys started trying to compare the Flames to the Oilers in an attempt to save face. All it did was escalate the thread (not necessarily a bad thing). But seriously, did you not think that criticizing the Flames would bring in the bashers? On a Flames forum? Again, you're not the only one guilty of this, but you're not innocent either.

 

- I resurrected this thread. I wanted this to be an Oilers vs Flames thread and instead of creating a new one I just found a thread in this section labelled Oilers.

 

- If I critique the Flames without it being hostile, I would hope that someone would come and defend it without getting hostile of insulting. In the same fashion if someone critiques the Oilers I would agree of disagree and then try to support my argument.

 

Well Well,,, I want to thank you DD for your great working digging up the mud that Connor continues to spew, these past few threads have totally made my day.

 

I actually had to laugh at quite a few comments.

 

Connor has eaten so much crow that im sure he has feathers instead of hair coming out of his head.

Assuming he isn't bald,, whereas I guess he would be referred to a bald eagle..

 

Anyway I did a rough calculation and the score I see in the past few threads are 10-2 for DD..  (I was being nice too).

 

I really don't know why guys/gals like Connor really spout their emotional feelings in here when if they would just take the rose colored glasses off and talk legit good or bad about either team for me I would have more respect.

 

Anyway, Oilers got rid of Tambs, good start but they need to keep going,, ahem cough cough,,, fire Lowe cough cough... step two.

 

Really excited for the young players for Calgary, so far as I can see our rebuild wont take a decade like the Oilers are in for.

 

Gooo Flames...

 

- OK, lets have intellectual conversation.

 

- What are you basing your idea that the Flames can become contenders faster than the Oilers?

 

Didn't Connor have a bet going somewhere here in this thread?

 

- I had a couple bets that I remember. One was who'd get more points and another was a playoffs vs President's trophy. I will honor any bet I lose.

 

You are correct Crzy. I called him on the same thing a bit later in the thread too when I produced the graphs and downward trends of the Oilers. He refused to belive it that time too so there is no reason to believe he would accept the fact now when his Oilers are in tank mode for another pick.

 

Seems he has a different thought process for his forums but prefers to just argue or claim ignorance over in these forums.

 

- Maybe it's lack of being able to fully communicate one's thought process in a post but I made that thread much earlier in the season because I was troubled with the Oilers lack of success. One thing I am guilty of is riding the good and bad waves of my team and projecting that on the entire season. You did the same thing when you made your statement because you anticipated a downward trend from there.

 

- The Oilers are eliminated from the playoffs. The better the pick they can get, the better off the team will be down the road.

[tmac70]

- On paper those are all losses for the Oilers and I still believe if you're not going to make the playoffs, you might as well get the best pick possible. Oilers will then likely win one out of the three to get them out of being able to draft an impact player.

 

 

- I am disappointed in my teams performance this season and the lack of adequate adjustment from management. I also think Lowe is a douche and needs to go. I can say that about my team. Can you say that about your team? I had hope that is more or less lost that this thread could've been more intellectual in nature with sound debate about which team of Alberta's is headed in a better direction. Unfortunately it has become a crap on the Oilers thread littered with stupid pictures and comments. I admit I lost my cool pages ago and it became a poo throwing contest.

 

 

- No. What he stated was they were going to continue downward from that point which didn't happen.

 

 

- I disagree that crapping the bed at the end is worse. They played games that mattered later in the season which will help with development. It is worse from a fan standpoint to have your heart ripped out but at least us fans where able to care about games in April.

 

 

- The thing is there are so few posts on this thread now that are factual based. Dirty and Carty just crap on the Oilers and I become defensive and become just as bad as them which I admit is not good.

 

 

- I'm not sure if Flames' fans are as critical as you say. I'd say the majority of Flames' fans approve of most Flames' moves. It might have something to do with the majority of the outsiders questioning Flames' moves which makes Flames' fans defensive and supportive.

 

- Acting like a snob? This thread has transformed into something that I did not want but instead of trying to diffuse it I contributed to it getting completely out of control. I'm going to try to start fresh to see if it can get to the right place.

 

 

- I resurrected this thread. I wanted this to be an Oilers vs Flames thread and instead of creating a new one I just found a thread in this section labelled Oilers.

 

- If I critique the Flames without it being hostile, I would hope that someone would come and defend it without getting hostile of insulting. In the same fashion if someone critiques the Oilers I would agree of disagree and then try to support my argument.

 

 

- OK, lets have intellectual conversation.

 

- What are you basing your idea that the Flames can become contenders faster than the Oilers?

 

 

- I had a couple bets that I remember. One was who'd get more points and another was a playoffs vs President's trophy. I will honor any bet I lose.

 

 

- Maybe it's lack of being able to fully communicate one's thought process in a post but I made that thread much earlier in the season because I was troubled with the Oilers lack of success. One thing I am guilty of is riding the good and bad waves of my team and projecting that on the entire season. You did the same thing when you made your statement because you anticipated a downward trend from there.

 

- The Oilers are eliminated from the playoffs. The better the pick they can get, the better off the team will be down the road.

Do you really need another pick. Look here is a non bias point of view. You have 5 first line forwards, and one puck moving offensive dman thats it. Now your forwards are only soild when their given time and space IE the power play.

 

Your future can be expedited if you take your 1st this year and GET A GOALIE, rub a dub is not the answer. Now pick two of your top 5 forwards AND TRADE THEM FOR better pieces. Your fans and organization are so caught up in this offensive style hockey that Edmonton had in the 80s. Which is why this club struggles cause Lowe and Mactavish cant see past their own hockey experiences.

 

Non bias opinion. Do not needs stats to tell me or others the template of the OIlers isnt working, the standings each year are an indication of success. So what happens is you cant handle the truth. Here is another fact if the Flames, Colorado, Tampa, Florida had the players you drafted in the past few years, they would be no better than you are.

[bronco73]

Do you really need another pick. Look here is a non bias point of view. You have 5 first line forwards, and one puck moving offensive dman thats it. Now your forwards are only soild when their given time and space IE the power play.

 

Your future can be expedited if you take your 1st this year and GET A GOALIE, rub a dub is not the answer. Now pick two of your top 5 forwards AND TRADE THEM FOR better pieces. Your fans and organization are so caught up in this offensive style hockey that Edmonton had in the 80s. Which is why this club struggles cause Lowe and Mactavish cant see past their own hockey experiences.

 

Non bias opinion. Do not needs stats to tell me or others the template of the OIlers isnt working, the standings each year are an indication of success. So what happens is you cant handle the truth. Here is another fact if the Flames, Colorado, Tampa, Florida had the players you drafted in the past few years, they would be no better than you are.

Actually I don't see Dubnyk as the biggest problem with this team, in fact I don't see him as a problem at all.  He remains among the top save percentage goaltenders in the league.  The problem is that he faces so many shots that he cannot possibly be the savior, the team is letting him down, not the other way around.  Furthermore, the team is having a very serious issue with scoring goals.  5 on 5 for the Oilers is nothing short of detestable.  I do believe that in the last 10 games Alex Ovechkin has scored more goals than the entire Edmonton roster.  They just are not physically strong enough to compete.  Couple that with a severe lack of ability to reduce shots against and you have a recipe for disaster.  Bad in their own end,  outmuscled in the opposition end.  They aren't going to win many games with that makeup.  They will get bigger and stronger and the top six will still have some pretty decent skill, but it just looks to me like the timeline for a competitive team needs to be extended a few years. 

[Carty]

I will admit that Dubnyk has been better than I would have expected...

 

But the Oil needs to add the right players to achieve balance...

 

They have some very talented players, but that is only a part of a complete team...

 

I just don't see how they can start to achieve balance any time in the near future without trading at least two of their top players, and I would have to think that even most Oiler fans must have their doubts as to whether the current management is capable of making the necessary changes...

[ifiwaschucknorris]

- On paper those are all losses for the Oilers and I still believe if you're not going to make the playoffs, you might as well get the best pick possible. Oilers will then likely win one out of the three to get them out of being able to draft an impact player.

- I am disappointed in my teams performance this season and the lack of adequate adjustment from management. I also think Lowe is a douche and needs to go. I can say that about my team. Can you say that about your team? I had hope that is more or less lost that this thread could've been more intellectual in nature with sound debate about which team of Alberta's is headed in a better direction. Unfortunately it has become a crap on the Oilers thread littered with stupid pictures and comments. I admit I lost my cool pages ago and it became a poo throwing contest.

- No. What he stated was they were going to continue downward from that point which didn't happen.

- I disagree that crapping the bed at the end is worse. They played games that mattered later in the season which will help with development. It is worse from a fan standpoint to have your heart ripped out but at least us fans where able to care about games in April.

- The thing is there are so few posts on this thread now that are factual based. Dirty and Carty just crap on the Oilers and I become defensive and become just as bad as them which I admit is not good.

- I'm not sure if Flames' fans are as critical as you say. I'd say the majority of Flames' fans approve of most Flames' moves. It might have something to do with the majority of the outsiders questioning Flames' moves which makes Flames' fans defensive and supportive.

- Acting like a snob? This thread has transformed into something that I did not want but instead of trying to diffuse it I contributed to it getting completely out of control. I'm going to try to start fresh to see if it can get to the right place.

- I resurrected this thread. I wanted this to be an Oilers vs Flames thread and instead of creating a new one I just found a thread in this section labelled Oilers.

- If I critique the Flames without it being hostile, I would hope that someone would come and defend it without getting hostile of insulting. In the same fashion if someone critiques the Oilers I would agree of disagree and then try to support my argument.

- OK, lets have intellectual conversation.

- What are you basing your idea that the Flames can become contenders faster than the Oilers?

- I had a couple bets that I remember. One was who'd get more points and another was a playoffs vs President's trophy. I will honor any bet I lose.

- Maybe it's lack of being able to fully communicate one's thought process in a post but I made that thread much earlier in the season because I was troubled with the Oilers lack of success. One thing I am guilty of is riding the good and bad waves of my team and projecting that on the entire season. You did the same thing when you made your statement because you anticipated a downward trend from there.

 - The Oilers are eliminated from the playoffs. The better the pick they can get, the better off the team will be down the road.

Not going to comment on most of this as we can all get defensive and have our rosé coloured glasses on when talking about our teams.

First it was me who had the bet going with Connor. Didn't see us both this far down the standings but...I'm still winning

Realistically I think the Flames have an excellent chance to rebound and make the playoffs within two years whereas I see the Oil struggling.

Consider this:

1. Oilers have Kevin Lowe and Craig Mactavish. Flames have Feaster and Ken King. Although I'm not in love with our management I would have to say the advantage would go to the Flames as they have shown more initiative and willingness to actively improve the team and seem less okay with failure. Also Feaster didn't win cups as a player soooooo....

2. Oilers forwards have exceptional skill in the top six but not a lot beyond that. I don't see them as a deep core and what's worse is that they seem much more emotionally fragile than the Flames. They seem as if they fold easily and almost seem resigned to losing. I don't know if there is an issue in the locker room or whether it goes deeper into there psyches but you can't lose that badly for that long without it leaving scars. Flames get the advantage in depth and resiliency. Oilers get the nod in top end skill and ability.

3. Oilers D is strong on the puck in the offensive zone but seems prone to turnovers in the defensive end. They also seem as if they are unable to read plays defensively at times and run around a lot. Worse the forwards seem to have little to no idea on how to support the D. TBH I see these same problems with the Flames and the Oil D have a little better offensive skill so advantage Oilers.

4. Oilers goaltending going forward is looking okay. Dubnyk probably won't be a Vezina candidate any time but neither will he sink the team. Beyond Dubnyk it's not looking solid but if he can give 60 quality starts a year it won't have to. Flames goaltending is a complete unknown at this point with several goaltending prospects in the system. If one of those turns into a goalie with starter quality we will have done alright. Advantage Oilers.

On paper it would seem the Oilers have all the tools necessary to be competitive and the talking heads on TV are in love with them but to me this core is fragmented and too addicted to there potential without being required to fulfill it. I also don't see the current management group being able/willing to change that. For these reasons I think the flames will have a faster rebuild than the Oil despite there head start.

To make the Oil better i would:

Trade two of RNH, Yakupov, Hall, Hemsky, Eberle for a very good 25-30 year old 2 way defender from a winning culture and a solid 3rd liner akin to a Troy Brouwer type or a Brandon Prust. Yandle, JBouw, or Johnson would be good. Plus something else depending on who's traded.

Hire a coach like Ruff or Tippett(if available). Someone with a pedigree and years of experience who can teach the kids how to play.

Dip into the free agent market (overpay since FAs don't like Edmonton) for a good 2 way C that can be good on the second line. A Joe Pavelski, Ryan Kesler type.

Unfortunately I don't see this management group willing to go this far and so I see several years of struggle ahead of them.

[tmac70]

As I said non bias opinion. Keep doing what your doing doesnt hurt my feelings at all....

Actually I don't see Dubnyk as the biggest problem with this team, in fact I don't see him as a problem at all.  He remains among the top save percentage goaltenders in the league.  The problem is that he faces so many shots that he cannot possibly be the savior, the team is letting him down, not the other way around.  Furthermore, the team is having a very serious issue with scoring goals.  5 on 5 for the Oilers is nothing short of detestable.  I do believe that in the last 10 games Alex Ovechkin has scored more goals than the entire Edmonton roster.  They just are not physically strong enough to compete.  Couple that with a severe lack of ability to reduce shots against and you have a recipe for disaster.  Bad in their own end,  outmuscled in the opposition end.  They aren't going to win many games with that makeup.  They will get bigger and stronger and the top six will still have some pretty decent skill, but it just looks to me like the timeline for a competitive team needs to be extended a few years. 

[ConnorFutureGM]

Do you really need another pick. Look here is a non bias point of view. You have 5 first line forwards, and one puck moving offensive dman thats it. Now your forwards are only soild when their given time and space IE the power play.

 

- Oilers need a big centre and there are a few players in this draft that fit that bill. It's hard to acquire impact centres, especially ones with size and skill.

 

Your future can be expedited if you take your 1st this year and GET A GOALIE, rub a dub is not the answer. Now pick two of your top 5 forwards AND TRADE THEM FOR better pieces. Your fans and organization are so caught up in this offensive style hockey that Edmonton had in the 80s. Which is why this club struggles cause Lowe and Mactavish cant see past their own hockey experiences.

 

- Rub a dub has been ok. I assume that when you mention the Oilers top 5 forwards you're saying that's Nuge, Hall, Eberle, Yakupov and Gagner. There is no way they are trading Hall. He is by far the Oilers best players and some advanced stats show he is one of the best players in the leauge but these advanced stats might be skewed from him being a winger. If the Oilers aren't trading Hall they pretty much can't trade Eberle since they are best buds and trading Eberle might lead to distance between the organization and Hall. Nuge is the only bonafide centre of the group which would make trading him stupid. I would be mightily pissed off if the Oilers traded Yakupov. He has some great skill and fire. IMO Gagner has to go.

 

- Oilers fans are caught up with being an offensive dynamo again like they were in the 80s. They can't be that team again even if they had the best players in the world. The Oilers still could be a offensive based contending team if the right pieces are put in place though.

 

Non bias opinion. Do not needs stats to tell me or others the template of the OIlers isnt working, the standings each year are an indication of success. So what happens is you cant handle the truth. Here is another fact if the Flames, Colorado, Tampa, Florida had the players you drafted in the past few years, they would be no better than you are.

 

- I think the Oilers potential for this season was a mirage. Players that didn't contribute last season were assumed to contribute this season which didn't happen. If the Flames had those players they would be doing a lot better. The Flames have a good amount veteran support players so they probably would have been able to run a deeper team. Oilers support players have been non-supportive to say the least.

 

I will admit that Dubnyk has been better than I would have expected...

 

But the Oil needs to add the right players to achieve balance...

 

They have some very talented players, but that is only a part of a complete team...

 

I just don't see how they can start to achieve balance any time in the near future without trading at least two of their top players, and I would have to think that even most Oiler fans must have their doubts as to whether the current management is capable of making the necessary changes...

 

- Dubnyk playing better is a half truth. He is more consistent which is what the Oilers need but his stats are inflated. Oilers are more defensive this year giving Dubnyk better looks at shots. I always say that coaches' systems make goalies. There are few goalies in the league who raise their team's success level. Kiprusoff is/was like that, it seems every other year. Hasek is the all time best goalie I've ever seen play. Look at Rinne and Lundqusit. Those guys both play on defence oriented teams but now that their team aren't playing as well their numbers are going down.

 

- There aren't many team changing goalies. I can't even think of one who is playing like that this season. Bobrovsky is getting a lot of kudos but again the Jackets are a defensive team and his numbers are likely to be less impressive next season. Teams need steady goalies and then a good, consistent system around them be it allowing less scoring chances or allowing a lot of scoring chances but getting even more. Dubnyk seems to be getting to a level where he can be steady which is all you really need from a goalie.

 

Not going to comment on most of this as we can all get defensive and have our rosé coloured glasses on when talking about our teams.

First it was me who had the bet going with Connor. Didn't see us both this far down the standings but...I'm still winning

Realistically I think the Flames have an excellent chance to rebound and make the playoffs within two years whereas I see the Oil struggling.

Consider this:

1. Oilers have Kevin Lowe and Craig Mactavish. Flames have Feaster and Ken King. Although I'm not in love with our management I would have to say the advantage would go to the Flames as they have shown more initiative and willingness to actively improve the team and seem less okay with failure. Also Feaster didn't win cups as a player soooooo....

2. Oilers forwards have exceptional skill in the top six but not a lot beyond that. I don't see them as a deep core and what's worse is that they seem much more emotionally fragile than the Flames. They seem as if they fold easily and almost seem resigned to losing. I don't know if there is an issue in the locker room or whether it goes deeper into there psyches but you can't lose that badly for that long without it leaving scars. Flames get the advantage in depth and resiliency. Oilers get the nod in top end skill and ability.

3. Oilers D is strong on the puck in the offensive zone but seems prone to turnovers in the defensive end. They also seem as if they are unable to read plays defensively at times and run around a lot. Worse the forwards seem to have little to no idea on how to support the D. TBH I see these same problems with the Flames and the Oil D have a little better offensive skill so advantage Oilers.

4. Oilers goaltending going forward is looking okay. Dubnyk probably won't be a Vezina candidate any time but neither will he sink the team. Beyond Dubnyk it's not looking solid but if he can give 60 quality starts a year it won't have to. Flames goaltending is a complete unknown at this point with several goaltending prospects in the system. If one of those turns into a goalie with starter quality we will have done alright. Advantage Oilers.

On paper it would seem the Oilers have all the tools necessary to be competitive and the talking heads on TV are in love with them but to me this core is fragmented and too addicted to there potential without being required to fulfill it. I also don't see the current management group being able/willing to change that. For these reasons I think the flames will have a faster rebuild than the Oil despite there head start.

To make the Oil better i would:

Trade two of RNH, Yakupov, Hall, Hemsky, Eberle for a very good 25-30 year old 2 way defender from a winning culture and a solid 3rd liner akin to a Troy Brouwer type or a Brandon Prust. Yandle, JBouw, or Johnson would be good. Plus something else depending on who's traded.

Hire a coach like Ruff or Tippett(if available). Someone with a pedigree and years of experience who can teach the kids how to play.

Dip into the free agent market (overpay since FAs don't like Edmonton) for a good 2 way C that can be good on the second line. A Joe Pavelski, Ryan Kesler type.

Unfortunately I don't see this management group willing to go this far and so I see several years of struggle ahead of them.

 

1. I now hate Lowe. He can get the F out of here. I think MacT will not have to work in the shadow of Lowe like Tambellini did but I would prefer it if there was no shadow at all. I don't have a read on how MacT will do or what he'll do so I'm not overly optimistic. All I have to go on is MacT knows the Oilers need a change but he feels the players we got with the 1st overall picks were at a very high cost (of sucking for a season) so he is very hesitant to trade them which I hope he sticks to.

 

As for Feaster, I don't know how you can be confident in him. He misanalysed the Flames twice and almost cost them a huge part of the future. One theory from the radio was Feaster might stay GM to be the eventual fall guy ie Tambellini after the Flames are done drafting high. That could be true but with Feaster saying the mandate is to make the playoffs next season, that seems unlikely unless that is a lie.

 

3. I agree mostly except about the losing. Some forwards except losing easier than others but I wouldn't paint them all with the same brush.

 

4. I agree. Dubnyk needs to be steady which he seems to be more or less this season.

 

- See, I'm not sure where your confidence in the Flames' management is coming from. I can understand and agree to some point in the Oilers lack of management. If Lowe can be merely a spectator and a consultant when asked for advice, I'd be ok with that. If he is going to be active in management decisions I will be far less optimistic. I am 95% confident that MacT will do with the Oilers what MacT wants to do, we just don't know what he wants to do yet or his ability in analyzing a team and potential talent to fill in the gaps. We do know that Feaster was off on his projection of the Flames this year and last year. I'm not sure how you feel about the returns in trades he received but to me it seemed to be less than market with the returns other players got this deadline.

 

- Why didn't you include Gagner in your trade list? Oilers should trade Hemsky and Gagner. Trading one of the 1st overall picks would be stupid IMO because no matter what the Oilers are likely to lose that trade.

 

- Krueger needs one more year. If we still suck half way through next season then hire somebody else but I'm not sure about those guys. They like teams very defensive and that wouldn't be the best fit for the players the Oilers have. Boudreau would have been a great fit but he was snapped up quick.

 

- I don't see Edmonton or Calgary as attractive destinations for UFAs this coming off season. Oilers could overpay a UFA but I don't think that would be good cap management. What the Oilers should do which is similar to overpaying a UFA is taking on a bad contract for one season and then buying him out the next season. This is something I suggested on the Oilers board; Oilers trade Eager, Belanger, 6th overall pick FOR Lecavalier 4th overall pick. Lecavalier would be unlikely to waive this NTC but if the Oilers told him that we will buy you out next season and he can resign with the Lightning, then the Oilers get one year of Lecavalier, get to dump their crappy players and get to flip picks. Of course this proposal has a lot of question marks like cap circumvention and if Katz would be willing to pay 2 million a year for 20 years. It would be a high financial price but it would leave the Oilers in a lot better of a position cap wise and player wise next season.

[ifiwaschucknorris]

-

 

1. I now hate Lowe. He can get the F out of here. I think MacT will not have to work in the shadow of Lowe like Tambellini did but I would prefer it if there was no shadow at all. I don't have a read on how MacT will do or what he'll do so I'm not overly optimistic. All I have to go on is MacT knows the Oilers need a change but he feels the players we got with the 1st overall picks were at a very high cost (of sucking for a season) so he is very hesitant to trade them which I hope he sticks to.

 

As for Feaster, I don't know how you can be confident in him. He misanalysed the Flames twice and almost cost them a huge part of the future. One theory from the radio was Feaster might stay GM to be the eventual fall guy ie Tambellini after the Flames are done drafting high. That could be true but with Feaster saying the mandate is to make the playoffs next season, that seems unlikely unless that is a lie.

 

3. I agree mostly except about the losing. Some forwards except losing easier than others but I wouldn't paint them all with the same brush.

 

4. I agree. Dubnyk needs to be steady which he seems to be more or less this season.

 

- See, I'm not sure where your confidence in the Flames' management is coming from. I can understand and agree to some point in the Oilers lack of management. If Lowe can be merely a spectator and a consultant when asked for advice, I'd be ok with that. If he is going to be active in management decisions I will be far less optimistic. I am 95% confident that MacT will do with the Oilers what MacT wants to do, we just don't know what he wants to do yet or his ability in analyzing a team and potential talent to fill in the gaps. We do know that Feaster was off on his projection of the Flames this year and last year. I'm not sure how you feel about the returns in trades he received but to me it seemed to be less than market with the returns other players got this deadline.

 

- Why didn't you include Gagner in your trade list? Oilers should trade Hemsky and Gagner. Trading one of the 1st overall picks would be stupid IMO because no matter what the Oilers are likely to lose that trade.

 

- Krueger needs one more year. If we still suck half way through next season then hire somebody else but I'm not sure about those guys. They like teams very defensive and that wouldn't be the best fit for the players the Oilers have. Boudreau would have been a great fit but he was snapped up quick.

 

- I don't see Edmonton or Calgary as attractive destinations for UFAs this coming off season. Oilers could overpay a UFA but I don't think that would be good cap management. What the Oilers should do which is similar to overpaying a UFA is taking on a bad contract for one season and then buying him out the next season. This is something I suggested on the Oilers board; Oilers trade Eager, Belanger, 6th overall pick FOR Lecavalier 4th overall pick. Lecavalier would be unlikely to waive this NTC but if the Oilers told him that we will buy you out next season and he can resign with the Lightning, then the Oilers get one year of Lecavalier, get to dump their crappy players and get to flip picks. Of course this proposal has a lot of question marks like cap circumvention and if Katz would be willing to pay 2 million a year for 20 years. It would be a high financial price but it would leave the Oilers in a lot better of a position cap wise and player wise next season.

Like I said I'm not thrilled with Feaster and King but the reason I rated them higher is that they have a better track record of actively trying to improve the roster than Lowe and his we will be better as everyone is a year older philosophy. TBH neither is ideal but I see the Flames as the better of the two.

I'm not saying the players are causing the losing but anyone in the work world knows that if you stay in a bad situation or work environment you tend to get numb to it. It's hard to snap yourself out of it and change things around. The players are numb to losing and okay with it because they have been losing so long. It's actually been proven that if you visualize your dreams and post pictures of your dream house and stuff you are less likely to achieve it as you get satisfaction from the visualization and it demotivated you. I think kind of the same thing is going on with the Oil right now.

Honestly I forgot Gagner. But Gags is an RFA next year so will the Oil be willing to pay what he wants? The other thing is I honestly don't see any way that Hemsky and Gagner net you what you need. If Gagner gets signed and puts up another good season next year and Hemsky stays healthy maybe but even still an established 1 or 1a Dman will cost you. The other, other thing is I just don't buy that these kids can win together. They don't know how to.

Krueger is fine but this is about the respect factor.

Like I said the Oil look pretty good on paper. My suggestions are made to shake up what's between there ears. They need a Wake up call and it has to be by trading a couple of the young core for SIGNIFICANT return, signing an established coach, and bringing in a solid FA from a winning culture.

[tmac70]

LMAO and there it is. Just like your management, you cant see the forest for the trees. Yeah you need more fowards and a average goalie there is the template for succuss. Have you not been doing this for the past five years. Our roster has a better GF than yours, so 100% your guys up front do not do us any good.

 

Hey no your right keep all five guys add more forwards and stay with rub a dub seems to have worked so far  .

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

- Oilers need a big centre and there are a few players in this draft that fit that bill. It's hard to acquire impact centres, especially ones with size and skill.

 

 

- Rub a dub has been ok. I assume that when you mention the Oilers top 5 forwards you're saying that's Nuge, Hall, Eberle, Yakupov and Gagner. There is no way they are trading Hall. He is by far the Oilers best players and some advanced stats show he is one of the best players in the leauge but these advanced stats might be skewed from him being a winger. If the Oilers aren't trading Hall they pretty much can't trade Eberle since they are best buds and trading Eberle might lead to distance between the organization and Hall. Nuge is the only bonafide centre of the group which would make trading him stupid. I would be mightily pissed off if the Oilers traded Yakupov. He has some great skill and fire. IMO Gagner has to go.

 

- Oilers fans are caught up with being an offensive dynamo again like they were in the 80s. They can't be that team again even if they had the best players in the world. The Oilers still could be a offensive based contending team if the right pieces are put in place though.

 

 

- I think the Oilers potential for this season was a mirage. Players that didn't contribute last season were assumed to contribute this season which didn't happen. If the Flames had those players they would be doing a lot better. The Flames have a good amount veteran support players so they probably would have been able to run a deeper team. Oilers support players have been non-supportive to say the least.

 

 

- Dubnyk playing better is a half truth. He is more consistent which is what the Oilers need but his stats are inflated. Oilers are more defensive this year giving Dubnyk better looks at shots. I always say that coaches' systems make goalies. There are few goalies in the league who raise their team's success level. Kiprusoff is/was like that, it seems every other year. Hasek is the all time best goalie I've ever seen play. Look at Rinne and Lundqusit. Those guys both play on defence oriented teams but now that their team aren't playing as well their numbers are going down.

 

- There aren't many team changing goalies. I can't even think of one who is playing like that this season. Bobrovsky is getting a lot of kudos but again the Jackets are a defensive team and his numbers are likely to be less impressive next season. Teams need steady goalies and then a good, consistent system around them be it allowing less scoring chances or allowing a lot of scoring chances but getting even more. Dubnyk seems to be getting to a level where he can be steady which is all you really need from a goalie.

 

 

1. I now hate Lowe. He can get the F out of here. I think MacT will not have to work in the shadow of Lowe like Tambellini did but I would prefer it if there was no shadow at all. I don't have a read on how MacT will do or what he'll do so I'm not overly optimistic. All I have to go on is MacT knows the Oilers need a change but he feels the players we got with the 1st overall picks were at a very high cost (of sucking for a season) so he is very hesitant to trade them which I hope he sticks to.

 

As for Feaster, I don't know how you can be confident in him. He misanalysed the Flames twice and almost cost them a huge part of the future. One theory from the radio was Feaster might stay GM to be the eventual fall guy ie Tambellini after the Flames are done drafting high. That could be true but with Feaster saying the mandate is to make the playoffs next season, that seems unlikely unless that is a lie.

 

3. I agree mostly except about the losing. Some forwards except losing easier than others but I wouldn't paint them all with the same brush.

 

4. I agree. Dubnyk needs to be steady which he seems to be more or less this season.

 

- See, I'm not sure where your confidence in the Flames' management is coming from. I can understand and agree to some point in the Oilers lack of management. If Lowe can be merely a spectator and a consultant when asked for advice, I'd be ok with that. If he is going to be active in management decisions I will be far less optimistic. I am 95% confident that MacT will do with the Oilers what MacT wants to do, we just don't know what he wants to do yet or his ability in analyzing a team and potential talent to fill in the gaps. We do know that Feaster was off on his projection of the Flames this year and last year. I'm not sure how you feel about the returns in trades he received but to me it seemed to be less than market with the returns other players got this deadline.

 

- Why didn't you include Gagner in your trade list? Oilers should trade Hemsky and Gagner. Trading one of the 1st overall picks would be stupid IMO because no matter what the Oilers are likely to lose that trade.

 

- Krueger needs one more year. If we still suck half way through next season then hire somebody else but I'm not sure about those guys. They like teams very defensive and that wouldn't be the best fit for the players the Oilers have. Boudreau would have been a great fit but he was snapped up quick.

 

- I don't see Edmonton or Calgary as attractive destinations for UFAs this coming off season. Oilers could overpay a UFA but I don't think that would be good cap management. What the Oilers should do which is similar to overpaying a UFA is taking on a bad contract for one season and then buying him out the next season. This is something I suggested on the Oilers board; Oilers trade Eager, Belanger, 6th overall pick FOR Lecavalier 4th overall pick. Lecavalier would be unlikely to waive this NTC but if the Oilers told him that we will buy you out next season and he can resign with the Lightning, then the Oilers get one year of Lecavalier, get to dump their crappy players and get to flip picks. Of course this proposal has a lot of question marks like cap circumvention and if Katz would be willing to pay 2 million a year for 20 years. It would be a high financial price but it would leave the Oilers in a lot better of a position cap wise and player wise next season.