DL44 Posted February 26, 2013 Report Share Posted February 26, 2013 Bulin is doing an adequate job for them. I just think starting him for a stretch sends the wrong message to your #1. As for the other "senior citizens", I am really just comparing them in age to the kids. Smyth is still ok in a secondary role. Bulin is ok as a backup, not a starter. The Oils have lots of assets that they could use to ice a winning team. Saying that, I really don't want them to make the playoffs, just wondering out loud why they refuse to make some moves. A couple of things... Dubnyk hasn't earned anything yet. Sure he's going to be the #1... but he still hasn't proven to be better than the wall. Unless they deem him mentally fragile and needed to be handled with kid gloves, he should have to EARN his games... not gifted them. THAT sends the wrong message to the team... false sense of entitlement. And Smyth is NOT ok.. he's been flat out bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnrefinedCrude Posted February 26, 2013 Report Share Posted February 26, 2013 Bulin is doing an adequate job for them. I just think starting him for a stretch sends the wrong message to your #1. Khabbi has been playing well, and traditionally has strong games against his former teams. he came in for Dubs in relief, then the Oilers had back to back games against teams Khabbi had played for. He won the first, so naturally he got the second start. Nothing more to this. No goaltending controversy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bronco73 Posted February 27, 2013 Report Share Posted February 27, 2013 A couple of things... Dubnyk hasn't earned anything yet. Sure he's going to be the #1... but he still hasn't proven to be better than the wall. Unless they deem him mentally fragile and needed to be handled with kid gloves, he should have to EARN his games... not gifted them. THAT sends the wrong message to the team... false sense of entitlement. And Smyth is NOT ok.. he's been flat out bad. This exactly. Smyth is worse than bad. When he isn't taking bad penalties he is coasting back. He can't keep up any more so he takes a stupid penalty rather than letting an opponent get away. And he isn't doing the things that made him so desirable any more. He doesn't park himself in front of the net, he doesn't fight for position and grab rebounds and garbage goals. He floats on offense and completely disappears on the back end. He's lost his cheddar. Dubnyk while being lights out some nights has been less than mediocre on others. Now I agree that every goaltender has those nights, but most #1's at least on most nights make that game saving stop, that clinch save that rallies the troops to fight for a win. That doesn't happen near enough with Dubnyk. He's got the gifts though IMO, and can be a number 1, but like you said DL44, he has to earn it and as of yet I don't think he has. And that sense of entitlement NEEDS to be removed from every player on the team, not just the goaltenders. This entire team plays like it's no big deal. No urgency, no desire. It's pretty bad when you can say with no reservations that the heart and soul of your team right now is Ales Hemsky, he and Gagner (Well Hall too) seem to be the ONLY players on this team that give a crap right now. It's time to start healthy scratching, vet or young guns I don't care, sit them. If there is no effort on the ice then let them relax and watch a game or two. And another thing. BAG SKATE! If you aren't going to work in a game then you can damn well work in practice. I can't even remember the last time this team got bag skated. It's time to give this spoiled rotten team the kick in the oss that it needs. There is talent, but ZERO desire. It's just so friggin' maddening. /rant_off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConnorFutureGM Posted February 27, 2013 Report Share Posted February 27, 2013 And we're tied Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bronco73 Posted February 27, 2013 Report Share Posted February 27, 2013 And we're tied yea we are tied, but which one is moving up and which is moving down? I hate to sound so pessimistic about them because the Oilers are my team and have been for some 35 years and will be until I take my last breath, but the entire organization is out of whack. Where has the scouting been to find the players to improve this team? Where has the training been to condition this team to compete? Where has the coaching been to show this team how to use their skills to win? Where has the management been to make the needed changes to make the team better? Why is there no accountability? Why is there no drive? Why is there no passion? Seriously man, there is so very little to be optimistic about. Every year we hope and believe the team will improve. Every year they jump out to a decent start to get us excited. Then, every year they lose their drive, their desire, their passion. This jalopy is in need of a major overhaul from mechanical to body work to electrical. Every last aspect of this organization needs to be fixed. /another rant_off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C_worthy Posted February 27, 2013 Report Share Posted February 27, 2013 This exactly. Smyth is worse than bad. When he isn't taking bad penalties he is coasting back. He can't keep up any more so he takes a stupid penalty rather than letting an opponent get away. And he isn't doing the things that made him so desirable any more. He doesn't park himself in front of the net, he doesn't fight for position and grab rebounds and garbage goals. He floats on offense and completely disappears on the back end. He's lost his cheddar. Dubnyk while being lights out some nights has been less than mediocre on others. Now I agree that every goaltender has those nights, but most #1's at least on most nights make that game saving stop, that clinch save that rallies the troops to fight for a win. That doesn't happen near enough with Dubnyk. He's got the gifts though IMO, and can be a number 1, but like you said DL44, he has to earn it and as of yet I don't think he has. And that sense of entitlement NEEDS to be removed from every player on the team, not just the goaltenders. This entire team plays like it's no big deal. No urgency, no desire. It's pretty bad when you can say with no reservations that the heart and soul of your team right now is Ales Hemsky, he and Gagner (Well Hall too) seem to be the ONLY players on this team that give a crap right now. It's time to start healthy scratching, vet or young guns I don't care, sit them. If there is no effort on the ice then let them relax and watch a game or two. And another thing. BAG SKATE! If you aren't going to work in a game then you can damn well work in practice. I can't even remember the last time this team got bag skated. It's time to give this spoiled rotten team the kick in the oss that it needs. There is talent, but ZERO desire. It's just so friggin' maddening. /rant_off That is what you get when all the kids are just given top 6 roles. It was inevitable, and it will be interesting to see, going forward, how they try and work through that. It is the exact opposite problem that the Flames have: the Flames refuse to give any opportunities until they are 'earned' which can stunt growth sometimes. It is so fun to watch the two teams be such polar opposites in so many ways. Watching the Oil the other night, Yakupov does something stupid and the commentator says 'he just got schooled' (but of course he won't miss a shiift. Conversely, if Baertschi did the same thing, he would not get another shift and probably be sent to Abby the next day. Bith teams are too extreme in their ways IMO. The Oilers should NOT be giving kids top line jobs automatically (that is worse IMO). And the Flames are way too stingy with icetime for their kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bronco73 Posted February 27, 2013 Report Share Posted February 27, 2013 That is what you get when all the kids are just given top 6 roles. It was inevitable, and it will be interesting to see, going forward, how they try and work through that. It is the exact opposite problem that the Flames have: the Flames refuse to give any opportunities until they are 'earned' which can stunt growth sometimes. It is so fun to watch the two teams be such polar opposites in so many ways. Watching the Oil the other night, Yakupov does something stupid and the commentator says 'he just got schooled' (but of course he won't miss a shiift. Conversely, if Baertschi did the same thing, he would not get another shift and probably be sent to Abby the next day. Bith teams are too extreme in their ways IMO. The Oilers should NOT be giving kids top line jobs automatically (that is worse IMO). And the Flames are way too stingy with icetime for their kids. haha too funny, I'm on the exact same page as you. Great minds think alike? I've been saying for a long time that Baertschi and Brodie should be given a bigger role in Calgary, and up in the Oilers board I am whining that the sophomores (Hall, Eberle, Nugent-Hopkins) should be demoted to the second line so they aren't under so much pressure, maybe they can find their game back while not facing such tough opposition. My suggestion is not going over so well though It is a lot deeper than that though C_Worthy, there are infinite holes to fix on the team, there is a complete lack of desire on the ice, the team is always gassed by the third no matter how much rest they have had. There are line combinations that just do not work, There are too many of one player type and not enough of another. Players aren't learning from mistakes or are not being shown how to not make them again. the list just keeps going. Like I said earlier, the entire system needs to be reworked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C_worthy Posted February 27, 2013 Report Share Posted February 27, 2013 haha too funny, I'm on the exact same page as you. Great minds think alike? I've been saying for a long time that Baertschi and Brodie should be given a bigger role in Calgary, and up in the Oilers board I am whining that the sophomores (Hall, Eberle, Nugent-Hopkins) should be demoted to the second line so they aren't under so much pressure, maybe they can find their game back while not facing such tough opposition. My suggestion is not going over so well though It is a lot deeper than that though C_Worthy, there are infinite holes to fix on the team, there is a complete lack of desire on the ice, the team is always gassed by the third no matter how much rest they have had. There are line combinations that just do not work, There are too many of one player type and not enough of another. Players aren't learning from mistakes or are not being shown how to not make them again. the list just keeps going. Like I said earlier, the entire system needs to be reworked. the management team needs to be reworked. (but I am so glad that it never is ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConnorFutureGM Posted February 27, 2013 Report Share Posted February 27, 2013 yea we are tied, but which one is moving up and which is moving down? I hate to sound so pessimistic about them because the Oilers are my team and have been for some 35 years and will be until I take my last breath, but the entire organization is out of whack. Where has the scouting been to find the players to improve this team? Where has the training been to condition this team to compete? Where has the coaching been to show this team how to use their skills to win? Where has the management been to make the needed changes to make the team better? Why is there no accountability? Why is there no drive? Why is there no passion? Seriously man, there is so very little to be optimistic about. Every year we hope and believe the team will improve. Every year they jump out to a decent start to get us excited. Then, every year they lose their drive, their desire, their passion. This jalopy is in need of a major overhaul from mechanical to body work to electrical. Every last aspect of this organization needs to be fixed. /another rant_off I'm dissatisfied with management's lack of pro-activeness. And neither team has really been on a long enough stretch to say this team is going up or this team is going down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bronco73 Posted February 27, 2013 Report Share Posted February 27, 2013 I'm dissatisfied with management's lack of pro-activeness. And neither team has really been on a long enough stretch to say this team is going up or this team is going down. Well, Edmonton was as high as third in the conference and has dropped steadily ever since, Calgary was as low as last in the conference and has steadily risen ever since. That's a pretty good indication to me as to which way each one is moving. There is a lot of hockey left to play this season and what we see happening now may not be what we continue to see, but to me it is very concerning. It's not like we haven't read this book before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C_worthy Posted February 27, 2013 Report Share Posted February 27, 2013 I'm dissatisfied with management's lack of pro-activeness. And neither team has really been on a long enough stretch to say this team is going up or this team is going down. standings after January (Edm 5th Cal 15th) My link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConnorFutureGM Posted February 28, 2013 Report Share Posted February 28, 2013 standings after January (Edm 5th Cal 15th) My link Are the Oilers consistently not getting points? Are the Flames consistently winning? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDeeds Posted February 28, 2013 Report Share Posted February 28, 2013 Are the Oilers consistently not getting points? Are the Flames consistently winning? Yes definately not getting as many points as earlier in the season. (Downward trend) Yes definately more than the beginning of the year. (Upward trend) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gresch17 Posted February 28, 2013 Report Share Posted February 28, 2013 Bronco you make some great points about both teams. The concern I have always had with the Oiler when the rebuild started was drafting these players first round from junior and moving them into NHL high minute positions the next season. I have always felt that doing this was not for the betterment of the team but more of a money grab to get the fans in. Yes they have four very young talented forward, but their bodies are just not fully developed for the constant pounding of the NHL. One or two years in the American league or another year back in junior would have been the best long term solution. So now the management is realizing the fans are now getting upset with the team not getting better and so the coaches try and turn them into a tough physical team? Really Taylor Hall is you next enforcer? WOW him doing against Weber or Downy and starting to be tough an physical I don't think will work out to well for Hall. These players are scorers and not grinders. The oilers management needs to get out of the 80's and realize run and gun hockey does not exist anymore. Defenseman have become to big, too strong, and skate so much better. You say there is no heart on the team; it's hard to have heart when it's pounded out of you every night and there is no one on the team to help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bronco73 Posted March 1, 2013 Report Share Posted March 1, 2013 Bronco you make some great points about both teams. The concern I have always had with the Oiler when the rebuild started was drafting these players first round from junior and moving them into NHL high minute positions the next season. I have always felt that doing this was not for the betterment of the team but more of a money grab to get the fans in. Yes they have four very young talented forward, but their bodies are just not fully developed for the constant pounding of the NHL. One or two years in the American league or another year back in junior would have been the best long term solution. So now the management is realizing the fans are now getting upset with the team not getting better and so the coaches try and turn them into a tough physical team? Really Taylor Hall is you next enforcer? WOW him doing against Weber or Downy and starting to be tough an physical I don't think will work out to well for Hall. These players are scorers and not grinders. The oilers management needs to get out of the 80's and realize run and gun hockey does not exist anymore. Defenseman have become to big, too strong, and skate so much better. You say there is no heart on the team; it's hard to have heart when it's pounded out of you every night and there is no one on the team to help. couldn't agree more. Hall really looked young and small his rookie year, Eberle didn't because they took more time with him. But then RNH looked small and now Yakupov too. I agree, at least one season in the AHL unless they are physically and skill wise capable of handling the NHL. UC said it best on the Oilers forum, "boys playing against men". trading for Fistric helped, but the flip side of the coin is missing Sutton. But there just is not enough sandpaper on the team, and not enough high energy types. Nice rebound game for the win tonight though, first time this entire season that they actually won a convincing game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConnorFutureGM Posted March 1, 2013 Report Share Posted March 1, 2013 Yes definately not getting as many points as earlier in the season. (Downward trend) I think you've mistaken that graph. That was the Flames' chances of winning the last night's game in 12 minute intervals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConnorFutureGM Posted March 1, 2013 Report Share Posted March 1, 2013 couldn't agree more. Hall really looked young and small his rookie year, Eberle didn't because they took more time with him. But then RNH looked small and now Yakupov too. I agree, at least one season in the AHL unless they are physically and skill wise capable of handling the NHL. UC said it best on the Oilers forum, "boys playing against men". trading for Fistric helped, but the flip side of the coin is missing Sutton. But there just is not enough sandpaper on the team, and not enough high energy types. Nice rebound game for the win tonight though, first time this entire season that they actually won a convincing game. Sorry but I disagree. The following isn't directed at you but to all those people who say the Oilers should've seasoned their players more. Those same people who say the Oilers should have let the young stars develop are mostly the same people who think a team should be ran on merrit. This is hypocritical. Hall, RNH, Yakupov and whoever else the Oilers are "rushing" were/are on the team because of merrit. These players maybe young, inexperienced and less developed physically but they are smarter hockey players as well as more offensively gifted than most the other players they were competeing against. Hall had 42 points in 65 games in his rookie season. .65 ppg RNH had 52 points in 62 games in his rookie season. .84 ppg Yakupov has 11 points in 19 games which is .58 ppg (with significantly less ice time per game than the previous two) Lets compare that to some current top 6 Flames. Hudler scoring .8125 ppg - Send him to the minors, he's too small. Stempniak has .68 ppg - Send him to the minors, he needs more confidence. Cervenka has .47 ppg - Flames are ruining his development. Give me a break. If a player can't perform his role adequately in the NHL he either needs time to develop or he isn't good enough. If he can fulfill his role on his team then he deserves to play, regardless of size. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carty Posted March 1, 2013 Report Share Posted March 1, 2013 Stats can be used to represent an opinion one way or another... We have all done it... But when it comes to size, or lack of it when it is used as a measure of success... I have a name I would mention right off the top...Theoren Fleury... A player of that size can make an impact that will be remembered... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gresch17 Posted March 1, 2013 Report Share Posted March 1, 2013 Don't take what I am saying and be upset. Not once did I say small players cannot play in the NHL. What I am talking about is the development of the human body. The human body's bone structure is not fully developed until the ages of 22 to be 25. Taking young small town player that need their muscular structure improved and developed and asking then to play 18 to 22 minutes a night is not the best in thing for the long term career of the player. Maybe a team having one or two of these type players with will work, but having five or six of these smaller skilled team franchise type players all playing together is not going to work long term. RNH is having shoulder issues (and in both shoulders now). Hall is already on a bad knee and yet both are no where near their full potential or the best years of their careers. Teams know this but I feel the Oilers ignored this in exchange for a marketing ploy. This is what upsets me. Four talented forwards that a true number one line players are going to end up with long term injuries before the age of 28 to 30, the prime of their careers all over the franchise making a few extra bucks now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDeeds Posted March 1, 2013 Report Share Posted March 1, 2013 I think you've mistaken that graph. That was the Flames' chances of winning the last night's game in 12 minute intervals. This is the Oilers thread not the Flames playing the Avs thread.( I created that one elsewhere. The graph indicates the Oilers and their slide. Edit: You can cut the BS any time Conner. You are well aware that the Oilers are on a losing downward spiral. This thread you started on your own boards proves it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConnorFutureGM Posted March 1, 2013 Report Share Posted March 1, 2013 This is the Oilers thread not the Flames playing the Avs thread I actually resurrected this thread as an Oilers vs Flames thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnrefinedCrude Posted March 1, 2013 Report Share Posted March 1, 2013 Stats can be used to represent an opinion one way or another... We have all done it... But when it comes to size, or lack of it when it is used as a measure of success... I have a name I would mention right off the top...Theoren Fleury... A player of that size can make an impact that will be remembered... But only with proper veteran support. Fleury would have been crippled after a single season had the rest of the team been soft, undersized and unmotivated. That era of Flames was an excellent mix of experience, youth,, speed, size, grit, and skill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bronco73 Posted March 2, 2013 Report Share Posted March 2, 2013 Sorry but I disagree. The following isn't directed at you but to all those people who say the Oilers should've seasoned their players more. Those same people who say the Oilers should have let the young stars develop are mostly the same people who think a team should be ran on merrit. This is hypocritical. Hall, RNH, Yakupov and whoever else the Oilers are "rushing" were/are on the team because of merrit. These players maybe young, inexperienced and less developed physically but they are smarter hockey players as well as more offensively gifted than most the other players they were competeing against. Hall had 42 points in 65 games in his rookie season. .65 ppg RNH had 52 points in 62 games in his rookie season. .84 ppg Yakupov has 11 points in 19 games which is .58 ppg (with significantly less ice time per game than the previous two) Lets compare that to some current top 6 Flames. Hudler scoring .8125 ppg - Send him to the minors, he's too small. Stempniak has .68 ppg - Send him to the minors, he needs more confidence. Cervenka has .47 ppg - Flames are ruining his development. Give me a break. If a player can't perform his role adequately in the NHL he either needs time to develop or he isn't good enough. If he can fulfill his role on his team then he deserves to play, regardless of size. yes but the thing is, the Oilers were physically beaten down every single night. Sure they had plenty of flashy goals, but they gave up far more hard-worked points. They were pushed around, hit, inured, and pretty much physically destroyed. I still think more time in AHL would have been a likely smarter course of action on the young ones. But it's not like it's just Edmonton who does it, plenty of teams rush rookies into the NHL. Most often they are successful, but one must wonder what kind of player would have developed if they would have spent time in AHL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bronco73 Posted March 2, 2013 Report Share Posted March 2, 2013 But only with proper veteran support. Fleury would have been crippled after a single season had the rest of the team been soft, undersized and unmotivated. That era of Flames was an excellent mix of experience, youth,, speed, size, grit, and skill. man I've never been a fan of the Flames. (okay I'll be honest, I cheered for them a little bit vs. tampa bay in the SCF, especially after they were robbed of that goal). But that team was so sweet to watch, how could you not appreciate the team that they assembled. Fleury (one of my favorite players ever), Niewendyck, Macinnis, Suter, Roberts, Gilmour, Makarov, Reichel, Vernon etc. Man that was a team. The thing about Fleury though is he was a different player than Hall, Eberle, RNH. He was downright TOUGH. Strong as an ox, no fear whatsoever, and a skillful player. Put Fleury in his prime even on the soft team Edmonton had during Hall's rookie season and gauranteed Fleury leads the team in hits and fights, and probably challenges for the team lead in points. For such a small guy he really was that good, and that tough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CastleMania Posted March 9, 2013 Report Share Posted March 9, 2013 The Oilers thread is back up and running. There was a problem on the moderation end with us learning how to use the new features. Sorry for any inconvenience it has caused. Let the trash talk continue! Long live the BOA and GO FLAMES GO!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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