bronco73 Posted February 22, 2013 Report Share Posted February 22, 2013 To me, it honestly looked like it could have been intentional, and possibly done out of frustration while down 3 - 1... If I had to guess, with no prior record in the NHL Hall will only get a fine... The Edmonton Journal already has a piece on it, and of course out the fans that commented, the ones with Oil in their name saw a different hit... http://blogs.edmontonjournal.com/2013/02/21/should-taylor-hall-be-suspended-for-his-hit-on-cal-clutterbuck/ So did Louie DeBrusk, I don't know how he could possibly describe it that way, Halls knee was out... Also a key factor should be that Clutterbuck did not have the puck... Clutterbuck is not on my list of favorite players, not even close But I guarantee that if the jerseys were switched on that hit, every Oil fan on the planet would be calling for a lynching... I actually do think he ignored the puck to go for a big hit, but misjudged his distance from Clutterbuck which resulted in the awkward hit, so I still don't think it was an intentional knee on knee. That being said, like you said earlier he will definitely have to answer to it on the third of March. Like any questionable hit, when it's your guy that gets laid out you are going to scream for justice, it's the nature of being a fan. I will gaurantee you that there isn't a Dallas fan out there that is happy with Giordano only getting an 8K fine. Regardless, Shanaban will likely be taking a look at the hit, and Hall will have to face the consequences. There have been plenty of unintentional hits (if it was unintentional, again debatable) that have resulted in fines or bans and this one could as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carty Posted February 22, 2013 Report Share Posted February 22, 2013 That's a pretty honest and fair assessment Bronco, and that's one of the reasons why guys like you and UnrefinedCrude have earned some respect around here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDeeds Posted February 22, 2013 Report Share Posted February 22, 2013 http://www.tsn.ca/blogs/kerry_fraser/?id=416585 Textbook case. 2+ Games Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyerfan52 Posted February 22, 2013 Report Share Posted February 22, 2013 http://www.tsn.ca/blogs/kerry_fraser/?id=416585 Textbook case. 2+ Games No previous record of suspensions, high profile player & telephone meeting rather then face to face have me thinking 2 or less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carty Posted February 22, 2013 Report Share Posted February 22, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DL44 Posted February 22, 2013 Report Share Posted February 22, 2013 No previous record of suspensions, high profile player & telephone meeting rather then face to face have me thinking 2 or less. Very similar incident when Porter got hit for 4 games for his knee on Booth. With the new suspension video the NHL released today... it would look pretty silly if Hall got anything less than 4. Take a look at the following video... it could double as one for Hall. Key points - Kneeing - Injury - No History Even mentions he doesn't believe Porter had intent to injure. = 4 games. Here's the Shanny video released today explaining the suspension process. Great video that further makes the process more transparent.. This area of disciple and player safety is going in the right direction. The videos were a brilliant idea. http://o.canada.com/2013/02/22/video-nhls-brendan-shanahan-explains-evolution-of-a-suspension/#.USfazB2-p_0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s4xon Posted February 22, 2013 Report Share Posted February 22, 2013 To me, it honestly looked like it could have been intentional, and possibly done out of frustration while down 3 - 1... If I had to guess, with no prior record in the NHL Hall will only get a fine... The Edmonton Journal already has a piece on it, and of course out the fans that commented, the ones with Oil in their name saw a different hit... http://blogs.edmontonjournal.com/2013/02/21/should-taylor-hall-be-suspended-for-his-hit-on-cal-clutterbuck/ So did Louie DeBrusk, I don't know how he could possibly describe it that way, Halls knee was out... Also a key factor should be that Clutterbuck did not have the puck... Clutterbuck is not on my list of favorite players, not even close But I guarantee that if the jerseys were switched on that hit, every Oil fan on the planet would be calling for a lynching... I watched it 4 times in slow mo. It was an intentional hit and yes the Zebras got one right for once. I agree, and it was my initial though before even reading this post, that if the Jersey's were switched, there would be a Oiler's courtyard riot, Clutterbuck would be put in chains, dragged to the town square and burned at the stake for treason. Hall should get at least a game suspension. The puck wasn't anywhere close, he leaned into it, and didn't attempt to move out of the way. He may be a first time offender, but an injury to that degree can end someone's career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DL44 Posted February 22, 2013 Report Share Posted February 22, 2013 Hall should get at least a game suspension. The puck wasn't anywhere close, he leaned into it, and didn't attempt to move out of the way. He may be a first time offender, but an injury to that degree can end someone's career. 4 games. He has to get 4 games based on the Porter ruling. In today's released video from Shanny he explains how they compare to similar incidents. They would look completely foolish and render that whole video worthless bullsheet if they don't give Hall 4 games while using clips of in the they just released!Edit: Clutterbuck's knee is in tact... so less severe of an injury than Booth... 2 or 3 games... depending on how much of a role injury plays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carty Posted February 22, 2013 Report Share Posted February 22, 2013 As for if Hall be suspended, Louie DeBrusk the Oilers colourman on Sportsnet, insisted repeatedly that Hall should not be. “For Taylor Hall, he leaned in with the shoulder, it wasn’t stretching out the leg and leaning in with the leg. If you watch, he squats down and goes to throw a hip/shoulder check towards Clutterbuck. Unfortunately he catches the left side of Clutterbuck, and I’m not too sure if it was the knee or a charleyhorse. Yeah... Sure Louie... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s4xon Posted February 22, 2013 Report Share Posted February 22, 2013 4 games. He has to get 4 games based on the Porter ruling. In today's released video from Shanny he explains how they compare to similar incidents. They would look completely foolish and render that whole video worthless bullsheet if they don't give Hall 4 games while using clips of in the they just released!Edit: Clutterbuck's knee is in tact... so less severe of an injury than Booth... 2 or 3 games... depending on how much of a role injury plays. Then Hall should get 4 games, long standing injury or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DL44 Posted February 22, 2013 Report Share Posted February 22, 2013 Well.. he got 2. Significantly less severe of an injury to Clutterbuck at this point than to Booth... so it makes sense the suspension is slightly less. i'm ok with the video explanation knowing that the main contributing factors effecting suspension length (after the act itself) is history and injury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bronco73 Posted February 22, 2013 Report Share Posted February 22, 2013 As much as I have put down Shanaban in the past, it's tough to argue either way on this one, it looks like he got it about right. Personally I wanted just a fine (yea I'm a homer), but trying to view it as an impartial observer I gotta say 2 games sounds about right. I'm hoping this time off will give Hall a chance to view the game from the pressbox and see how he, RNH, and Eberle can get their games fired up because what they are doing now is obviously not working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Invin Posted February 23, 2013 Report Share Posted February 23, 2013 As for if Hall be suspended, Louie DeBrusk the Oilers colourman on Sportsnet, insisted repeatedly that Hall should not be. “For Taylor Hall, he leaned in with the shoulder, it wasn’t stretching out the leg and leaning in with the leg. If you watch, he squats down and goes to throw a hip/shoulder check towards Clutterbuck. Unfortunately he catches the left side of Clutterbuck, and I’m not too sure if it was the knee or a charleyhorse. Yeah... Sure Louie... Yeah, I couldn't believe what I was hearing when he started saying that stuff. I had my face on the whole time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DL44 Posted February 23, 2013 Report Share Posted February 23, 2013 As much as I have put down Shanaban in the past, May i ask about what? I haven't found myself disagreeing with any of his videos yet.. I think he and his committee/NHL are doing as good a job as anyone could hope for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alicenchains Posted February 23, 2013 Report Share Posted February 23, 2013 I thought 1 game would be enough send a message, impossible to know the exact intent but late in a 3-1 game one can draw some conclusions. Hate to miss Hall for 2 games and even though the puck is close Clutterbuck was looking the other way it's a devastating hit, I hope he has a speedy recovery but I certainly wouldn't mind a little bitterness between these teams again. Hall will definitely be in line for his second nhl fight soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s4xon Posted February 23, 2013 Report Share Posted February 23, 2013 Well.. he got 2. Significantly less severe of an injury to Clutterbuck at this point than to Booth... so it makes sense the suspension is slightly less. i'm ok with the video explanation knowing that the main contributing factors effecting suspension length (after the act itself) is history and injury. At least he didn't the the first time offender, number 1 overall pick, Oiler young gun discount of no games suspended. In my original post, I was hoping for something, at least a game. Two games sits alright with me. I don't have some agenda against Hall, but as I said earlier, it's dangerous stupidity, and can end another player's career. I felt the same way with Torres, and with Borque and his twitching elbow headshots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bronco73 Posted February 23, 2013 Report Share Posted February 23, 2013 May i ask about what? I haven't found myself disagreeing with any of his videos yet.. I think he and his committee/NHL are doing as good a job as anyone could hope for. I have felt in the past that in some cases he gives to lengthy of a suspension while in others not enough, or even no suspension when I've felt one was warranted. It's personal opinion of course and everybody has their own opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyerfan52 Posted February 23, 2013 Report Share Posted February 23, 2013 http://www.tsn.ca/blogs/kerry_fraser/?id=416585 Textbook case. 2+ Games I thought 1 game would be enough send a message, impossible to know the exact intent but late in a 3-1 game one can draw some conclusions. Hate to miss Hall for 2 games and even though the puck is close Clutterbuck was looking the other way it's a devastating hit, I hope he has a speedy recovery but I certainly wouldn't mind a little bitterness between these teams again. Hall will definitely be in line for his second nhl fight soon. In cases like this, it's not supposed to be about intent which is impossible to judge. It's not about the victim looking away when the offender leads with his knee. The fact he wasn't looking makes him more vulnerable placing more onus on the offender. It's the same with head shots or hitting a guy in the #s to smack him into the boards. Fans of the team missing their player will see it harsh. Others might say not enough of a suspension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alicenchains Posted February 23, 2013 Report Share Posted February 23, 2013 ^ Intent does matter, otherwise Hansen would have got 5 games and Cooke would have got like 30 games. I still thought Cooke should have got 1 or 2 games you should be responsible for your skate. Technically he was leading with his shoulder knee and hip, I still agree a suspension was warranted though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConnorFutureGM Posted February 23, 2013 Report Share Posted February 23, 2013 I can tell that at this point nothing rational that I state will convince you otherwise, but this quote here tells me that your idea of college hockey is misguided. Jankowski's best attributes are his offensive skills, and the college game actually deters from that. Wanna know why so many college guys can jump straight into the AHL? The NCAA is a bigger, more physical and more structured league than the CHL. It also rewards a guy like Khaira because it's more physical and the guys who can take and dish a hit will benefit from that aspect of the game. It's also a slightly (ever so slightly) slower-paced league than the juniors, so a guy with low speed can keep up with the play (like a Khaira or a Bill Arnold) without being a massive liability, while sneaky and/or fast players (Justin Schultz, Johnny Gaudreau to name a few) develop the ability to push the pace and work the cycle without being overpowered, provided they also develop an affinity towards getting separation from defenders and avoiding being manhandled in open ice or on the boards. Both Jankowski and Khaira will look good in different areas of the game. As we can clearly tell, it's obviously working to convince you on Khaira at the very least. - Disagree with your assessment of college hockey compared to the CHL. A lot of the top end players in college hockey are smaller, offensive guys. You don't see many powerforwards coming out of college hockey. You also see a lot of players deemed too small go to college over the CHL. Jankowski's biggest weakness is his lack of strength and/or ability to use his frame. Considering he's going up against guys who could weigh upwards of 50 pounds heavier than him, it's a great place to develop because he has to learn to play shifty, while having the time to build his body off the ice as well. It's also a great place for Khaira, because he's going to be dealing with faster skill players for likely the rest of his hockey career and getting time against the Gaudreaus and the Grimaldis will help him learn to defend against the small, shifty player. Both guys will get their merits in playing the college game. Jamie Benn is a poor example because he already had the concurrent skill to begin with, it's just that people didn't see it in his draft year because of the line he played on. Playing in the CHL brought to light his actual abilities, rather than hiding in the shadow of his talented linemates in the BCHL. He is aggressive, and he is determined, but those traits are not the only ones that allowed him to become a star. He's got underrated skating and playmaking abilities (although they aren't elite) but his hands are fantastic. If he had the skill of a Brandon Prust, then unfortunately that's all we'd see him become. Skill is potential, while intangibles is what allows you to fulfill your potential. A player who has no heart won't ever fulfill his potential, while a player with no skill will fill it to the brim, but has so little skill that even his full bar is useless for a franchise. - I like your analogy. I agree, I just think you might be underestimating Khaira's skill level. I also believe I said that a player who is all skill and no heart is even more worthless than a heart player with no skill, so yes what you said is correct. But Jankowski has got decent amounts of intangibles as well. If Jank and Khaira both work equally hard, than the guy who has more skill will come out in front. That's why I said it would be harder for Khaira to keep up than the other way around, because I don't think he has the natural skill that Mark does and so the only way he can keep up is by working even more than Mark does. Which, depending on which way Mark goes in his development, could either be really easy or an impossible challenge. - We both agree about the skill and intangibles as well as Khaira's and Jankowski's skill sets being different. Both have a long way to go but IMO Khaira is I feel Khaira has a better shot at becoming a top 6 player because of what he brings and the lack of players in the NHL similar to him, especially on the Oilers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnrefinedCrude Posted February 25, 2013 Report Share Posted February 25, 2013 The thing is, Hall was trying to lead the hip and shoulder.(his is more clear from other angles.) But his line of attack and execution of the hit were so incredibly poor that his knee did become the initial point of contact. The hit was a bit late ( Clutterbuck misplayed the pass and missed the puck, but we have seen many hits when that happens that are allowed because it is reasonable to expect the player to gain possession.) There are a lot of things wrong with this hit, Clutterbuck is in a vulnerable position, and there is little chance for him to see Hall through traffic. the sloppy execution of the hit result in devastating knee contact. I really don't see this as Hall maliciously going for a knee on knee hit, but it is clearly an already reckless hit (he was certainly looking to blow Clutterbuck up while he was unaware of the incoming hit,)that is so poorly executed it becomes even more dangerous. I really have no problem with Hall sitting for a couple. I also don't have a problem with the idea of Hall laying a crushing hit on (even on an unsuspecting,) Clutterbuck, but the sheer recklessness and terrible execution of the play is unacceptable. Given this wasn't a truly malicious intent to injure, and Hall's lack of history I think a 2 game suspension is a pretty fair punishment. I think Hall really needs to add a hard hitting component to his game, but he has to learn how to actually do it properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bronco73 Posted February 26, 2013 Report Share Posted February 26, 2013 Dandy game tonight. How Edmonton can stink a joint out that badly and still come out with a point against the best team in the league is beyond me. Embarassing game, this team has such a long way to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted February 26, 2013 Report Share Posted February 26, 2013 Dandy game tonight. How Edmonton can stink a joint out that badly and still come out with a point against the best team in the league is beyond me. Embarassing game, this team has such a long way to go. Yes, it was. The Oiler blogger on Ecklund's website has some opinions on what to do. Some days though he talks like they are the second coming. I have my opinions, but I am not a fan. I feel like Tambo is looking to get another 1st rounder like Nate. Not by intentionally losing, but by refusing to improve the team. - ditch 'Bulin and pick up a decent backup; show your #1 guy some confidence - trade some high-end prospects or one of the kids; figure out who you really want - trade your 1st round pick now for a decent 3/4 defense; show the team you expect to make the playoffs Or, continue down the same course. Sink or swim with a bunch of kids and some senior citizens. Collect 1st rounders and never get beyond that mentality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDeeds Posted February 26, 2013 Report Share Posted February 26, 2013 .... Sink or swim with a bunch of kids and some senior citizens. ..... to be fair it is one of those senior citizens who is giving them a chance in games lately. He had the good start last year which put them into a playoff spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted February 26, 2013 Report Share Posted February 26, 2013 to be fair it is one of those senior citizens who is giving them a chance in games lately. He had the good start last year which put them into a playoff spot. Bulin is doing an adequate job for them. I just think starting him for a stretch sends the wrong message to your #1. As for the other "senior citizens", I am really just comparing them in age to the kids. Smyth is still ok in a secondary role. Bulin is ok as a backup, not a starter. The Oils have lots of assets that they could use to ice a winning team. Saying that, I really don't want them to make the playoffs, just wondering out loud why they refuse to make some moves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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