cross16 Posted January 27, 2013 Report Share Posted January 27, 2013 The Oilers are still a small and soft team that is going to have to deal with being pushed around on a nightly basis. This. I don't even consider the Flames a very tough team and they pushed the Oilers around last night. Sure they've got some exciting pieces but there are several pieces missing from this team to even be a playoff team IMO. If i'm an Oiler fan, i'm worried personally been waiting long enough and your not seeing much on Tambellini's side to address to defecencies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Don Posted January 27, 2013 Report Share Posted January 27, 2013 This. I don't even consider the Flames a very tough team and they pushed the Oilers around last night. Sure they've got some exciting pieces but there are several pieces missing from this team to even be a playoff team IMO. If i'm an Oiler fan, i'm worried personally been waiting long enough and your not seeing much on Tambellini's side to address to defecencies. There have 4 extremely skilled and exciting young players who are all future studs. The problem is that the biggest of the bunch is Taylor Hall at 6'0 190, and he can't stay healthy. Their entire top 6 averages 5'11.5 and 183. Who's the deterant to stop people from running these kids night in and night out? Ben Eager? Darcy Hordichuk? Guys who can't kept themselves healthy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted January 27, 2013 Report Share Posted January 27, 2013 At the end of the day, it will always be the salary cap which kills the Oilers. Or...depending on how you look at it, their future wives. Last year, they had no goatending and no defense. Their forwards were too young, and they overplayed them to the point of injury. This year, they still have no goaltending but they do have an incredible defenseman in Justin Schultz. Their forwards will never reach their full potential because of the amount of injuries early in their career. But they will Always be exciting. Can the Oilers solve their goaltending and size problems? Yes. But when you're putting guys like Alex Plante on waivers because of salary concerns, you know the end is right around the corner, even if the beginning never really got a chance. Better hope all the players find native Edmontonian wives that refuse to leave. If such people exist. And fast. Look out next year, boys: http://www.capgeek.com/oilers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted January 27, 2013 Report Share Posted January 27, 2013 At the end of the day, it will always be the salary cap which kills the Oilers. Or...depending on how you look at it, their future wives. Last year, they had no goatending and no defense. Their forwards were too young, and they overplayed them to the point of injury. This year, they still have no goaltending but they do have an incredible defenseman in Justin Schultz. Their forwards will never reach their full potential because of the amount of injuries early in their career. But they will Always be exciting. Can the Oilers solve their goaltending and size problems? Yes. But when you're putting guys like Alex Plante on waivers because of salary concerns, you know the end is right around the corner, even if the beginning never really got a chance. Better hope all the players find native Edmontonian wives that refuse to leave. If such people exist. And fast. Look out next year, boys: http://www.capgeek.com/oilers Alex Plante was put on waviers becuase he can't play in the NHL not becuase of his salary. Oilers still have plenty of cap room to use, Plante just can't play a regular shift in the NHL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted January 28, 2013 Report Share Posted January 28, 2013 Alex Plante was put on waviers becuase he can't play in the NHL not becuase of his salary. Oilers still have plenty of cap room to use, Plante just can't play a regular shift in the NHL. Sorry, I hadn't followed his recent poor play. My mistake for talking up an Oiler, won't happen again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConnorFutureGM Posted January 28, 2013 Report Share Posted January 28, 2013 Question: How do you and Bronco73 cope with all the whiners on the boards over in the Oil drum? They aren't all whiners, but there are a ton of them. The Oilers have one bad game after 2 amazing comeback wins and it's like it's the end of the season for most the forum. For a team that has some of the youngest coveted talent in the NHL, you would think most their fans would give them some credit. At least two of you do. It's hard to get a read on this team yet. Dubnyk has been good, bad, good, meh. Some players that you'd hope would play better aren't and some that you didn't expect much from are doing well. As far as I can tell, it seems every player on the Oilers knows their role and has accepted it which is already better than last season. Just with the Oilers being this sexy pick has maybe put fan expectations a bit high. +1 for showing up to offer a congratz Conner. Didn't think you had it in you. You should be able to take some of the good things the Oilers did tonight and run with it for a bit. Your PP looked real good. If they mix it up a bit more and do a tad less through the crease passing they will continue to be one of the best in the league. We had no answer for it at times. Your D still needs some work. Much improved over last year but still needs work. If the Oilers can keep from taking so many penalties at least while the refs have been instructed to call everything, you will be much better off. Stupid penalties has hurt both our teams this year, not just tonight. Lots of time to work out the bugs when we play each other again in April. I was not happy with the Oilers loss, looked somewhat out of sync. The Oilers are still a small and soft team that is going to have to deal with being pushed around on a nightly basis. Don't forget that the majority of the core is in their early 20's or younger. The Oilers need to add some top 6 muscle but a tough top 6 guy is almost as hard to find as a top 6 centre with size. If Oilers can play a more disciplined game they could still get by ala Detroit. This. I don't even consider the Flames a very tough team and they pushed the Oilers around last night. Sure they've got some exciting pieces but there are several pieces missing from this team to even be a playoff team IMO. If i'm an Oiler fan, i'm worried personally been waiting long enough and your not seeing much on Tambellini's side to address to defecencies. I disagree. I don't think the Oilers have to get tougher to be a playoff team. Probably will need to get tougher to be successful in the playoffs. There have 4 extremely skilled and exciting young players who are all future studs. The problem is that the biggest of the bunch is Taylor Hall at 6'0 190, and he can't stay healthy. Their entire top 6 averages 5'11.5 and 183. Who's the deterant to stop people from running these kids night in and night out? Ben Eager? Darcy Hordichuk? Guys who can't kept themselves healthy? I'm pretty sure both Hall and Nuge are listed as 6'1. Nobody in the top 6 that is too heavy though. At the end of the day, it will always be the salary cap which kills the Oilers. Or...depending on how you look at it, their future wives. Last year, they had no goatending and no defense. Their forwards were too young, and they overplayed them to the point of injury. This year, they still have no goaltending but they do have an incredible defenseman in Justin Schultz. Their forwards will never reach their full potential because of the amount of injuries early in their career. But they will Always be exciting. Can the Oilers solve their goaltending and size problems? Yes. But when you're putting guys like Alex Plante on waivers because of salary concerns, you know the end is right around the corner, even if the beginning never really got a chance. Better hope all the players find native Edmontonian wives that refuse to leave. If such people exist. And fast. Look out next year, boys: http://www.capgeek.com/oilers You seriously have no idea what you're talking about. Horcoff and Smyth played the most TOI last season. This was wrong of Renney to do because they weren't producing less than the kids. Whoever produces more should play more period. Doesn't matter who's older. Plante just sucks. Oilers are more than fine with the cap for the forseeable future. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted January 28, 2013 Report Share Posted January 28, 2013 I disagree. I don't think the Oilers have to get tougher to be a playoff team. Probably will need to get tougher to be successful in the playoffs. The Oilers are several pieces from the playoffs, toughness is just one of them. Sure they could get there without getting tougher but they won't get there until they upgrade their forward depth with a decent 3rd/4th line and get a goalie. Toughness would help, but I agree they won't get anywhere in the playoffs until they get some grit in their top 6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stranger Posted January 28, 2013 Report Share Posted January 28, 2013 JBO plays like that every night,hes on the 1st allstar team.Iggy and GlenX as well.Pretty hard cheering against those Alberta boys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted January 28, 2013 Report Share Posted January 28, 2013 You seriously have no idea what you're talking about. Horcoff and Smyth played the most TOI last season. This was wrong of Renney to do because they weren't producing less than the kids. Whoever produces more should play more period. Doesn't matter who's older. Plante just sucks. Oilers are more than fine with the cap for the forseeable future. I was totally out to lunch on Plante, you're right. I just goes to show how Much of an chicken tikka masala you can make yourself look like by saying positive things about the Oilers. I've learned my lesson, let me tell you. But the rest of my arguement was bang on. As you already know. Obviously, you see the "forseeable future" as the next four months, because the pain starts next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnrefinedCrude Posted January 28, 2013 Report Share Posted January 28, 2013 Good game by the Flames. They were the better team tonight. They weren't better. They were dominantly better. The score flattered the Oilers, even had Gagner not scored the lst second goal to make it a one goal game, the Oilers were extremely lucky to only be down a couple. Hartley's system seems to really suit Bouwmeester. Flames fans might need a new whipping boy. he was engaged in the play, and he was shooting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnrefinedCrude Posted January 28, 2013 Report Share Posted January 28, 2013 I was totally out to lunch on Plante, you're right. I just goes to show how Much of an chicken tikka masala you can make yourself look like by saying positive things about the Oilers. I've learned my lesson, let me tell you. But the rest of my arguement was bang on. No it wasn't. there are lots of things wrong with the Oilers, but you aren't talking about them. Sure it's fashionable to rip the Oilers here on the Flames board, but take a page out of Cross16's book and talk about something real. You don't make yourself look like an chicken tikka masala by saying something positive about the Oilers, you make an chicken tikka masala out of yourself by talking about stuff you know nothing about, because you think you'll score points on this board just by being negative about the Oilers. the knowledgeable posters here aren't like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C_worthy Posted January 28, 2013 Report Share Posted January 28, 2013 They weren't better. They were dominantly better. The score flattered the Oilers, even had Gagner not scored the lst second goal to make it a one goal game, the Oilers were extremely lucky to only be down a couple. Hartley's system seems to really suit Bouwmeester. Flames fans might need a new whipping boy. he was engaged in the play, and he was shooting. Already got one. You wouldn't want to find yourself sitting close to Comeau in a reataurant - you might get hit by flying cutlery! As for Bouwmeester: terrible against the Sharks, not as bad against the Ducks, good to very good against the Nucks, and great against the OIlers. He's trending! The Bouwmeester we saw last night, compared to the Bouwmeester we have gotten for the last three years, is the difference between playoffs and no playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted January 28, 2013 Report Share Posted January 28, 2013 No it wasn't. there are lots of things wrong with the Oilers, but you aren't talking about them. Sure it's fashionable to rip the Oilers here on the Flames board, but take a page out of Cross16's book and talk about something real. You don't make yourself look like an chicken tikka masala by saying something positive about the Oilers, you make an chicken tikka masala out of yourself by talking about stuff you know nothing about, because you think you'll score points on this board just by being negative about the Oilers. the knowledgeable posters here aren't like that. Soooo...just to clarify, money Isn't real on this thread? Is this an Oilers thread or a monopoly thread? Thanks for the tips on scoring "forum points". I'll let you know as soon as that's important to me. If you try real hard, maybe you'll catch up to how many "forum points" I have now without really trying, and just being an honest, somewhat abrasive poster. Fantastic to know that in this thread, money isn't a concern. Yes, I noticed how badly the Oilers sucked. You're talking about it, because you're surprised and concerned. I'm not talking about it, because it was an obvious conclusion before the season started. I also actually watched at the beginning of Last season. We've already read this book. I Will give you that Schultz is a beast. That's....about it. Your Oilers team couldn't win in the AHL, why would we be having a surprised discussion about their poor performance in the NHL? Anyway, I'm sure they'll get better with Schultz as their quarterback, but their demise is here: http://www.capgeek.com/oilers/ If you can't see that, it tells me two things: 1. You haven't followed the Oilers for more than two years (because it's happened to them countless times over the last 20 years, and been widely publicized) 2. You're just reading the numbers without actually doing any projections or calculations in your head. Here's a thought: Edmonton has 13 free agents next year, Many of them are young core players that Must be resigned at significant increases. Calgary, on the other hand, has 9 free agents next year. This includes Iginla an Babchuck, both of which will demand substantially Less money The year after: Edmonton has another 10 free agents to contend with. They will have already reached their cap from previous negotiations They'll have the joy of negotiation with players like RNH, and Justin Schultz. Calgary will continue to shed huge contracts. 9 free agents, including Stajan, Kipper, and Cammalleri. All three will take less. You can't have it both ways. You can't say that Edmonton has all the talent, and the Stanley cup potential, and Not cite the salary cap as a concern. The Salary Cap Inherently becomes the concern. Especially if the team's ages are concentrated closely together in an unnatural distribution (result of losing on purpose). Chicago and Pittsburgh both recently built dynasties when they won their cups, and both were quickly torn apart the very next season. And those are both cities that NHL players Like living in. If you think the Oilers won't have to pay a premium to retain their stars, go right ahead. You may just be right, if they continue to play like last night. But hey, I still appreciate that you're grooming these players for us! If any of them actually turn out, we'll gladly take them off your hands when you can't afford them and they'll only be a four-hour drive away. I've already got my eye on Schultz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConnorFutureGM Posted January 28, 2013 Report Share Posted January 28, 2013 I was totally out to lunch on Plante, you're right. I just goes to show how Much of an chicken tikka masala you can make yourself look like by saying positive things about the Oilers. I've learned my lesson, let me tell you. But the rest of my arguement was bang on. As you already know. Obviously, you see the "forseeable future" as the next four months, because the pain starts next year. Next year Hall and Eberle go up to 6. Whitney, Smid, Sutton, Fistric, Jones, Danis and Khabibulin are UFAs. Whitney has been less than acceptable this year and won't be re-signed unless he picks it up. Smid will be re-signed for between 3.5 and 4. Fistric, Jones and Danis will be signed pending their performance this season. Khabibulin and Sutton are retiring. RFAs include Gagner, Paajarvi, Hartikainen and Peckham. Gagner will get at the absolute most 4.5 mil and that's if he has an absolute breakout season. Paajarvi and Hartikainen will be around 1 mil and Peckham is likely gone. Hall-RNH-Eberle (6)-(3.775)-(6) = 15.775 Yakupov-Gagner-Hemsky (3.775)-(4.5)-(5) = 13.274 Smyth-Horcoff-Paajarvi (2.25)-(5.5)-(1) = 8.75 Jones-Belanger-Hartikainen (1.5)-(1.75)-(1) = 4.25 EXTRA: (1) = 43.049 Smid-Petry (3.75)-(1.75) = 5.5 Schultz-Schultz (3.5)-(3.775) = 7.275 Fistric-? (2)-(2) = 4 EXTRA: (1.5) = 18.275 Dubnyk (3.5), Backup (1.5) = 5 Total: 66.324. Bonus cushion $8,550,000 which might not count at all against next year's cap (I forget). Either way, I did a lot of rounding up and the Oilers are slightly over if every player hits their bonuses which is impossible since there isn't ties for MVP awards. As of right now, the Oilers have more cap space going into this off season than the Flames. The year after is when it gets interesting. RNH, Schultz, Petry RFA. Hemsky, Smyth, Belanger, Eager, Potter and Dubnyk UFA. Hall-RNH-Eberle (6)-(6)-(6) = 18 Yakupov-Gagner-? (3.775)-(4.5)-? = 8.275 + ? Jones-Horcoff-Paajarvi (1.5)-(5.5)-(1) = 8 Hartikainen-Lander-? (1)-(1)-? = 2 + EXTRA:(1) = 37.275 + 2ND LINE WINGER + 4TH LINE GRINDER Smid-Petry (3.75)-(3.75) = 7.5 ?-Schultz ?-(6) = 6 + ? = 6 Klefbom-Fistric (1.275)-(2) = 3.275 EXTRA: (1.5) = 16.775 + TOP 4 DEFENSIVE DEFENCEMAN DUBNYK (5) + ? = 5 + BACKUP = 59.05 + 2ND LINE WINGER + 4TH LINE GRINDER + TOP 4 DEFENSIVE DEFENCEMAN + BACKUP IMO Oilers will still be ok here. Yakupov will still have a bonus structure that not all if any will count against the cap. The cap will likely go higher than the cap of 64,300,000 the season prior. Lets say cap goes to 68,000,000. Oilers will roughly have 9 million to spend to fill those holes. Get a cheap backup and 4th liner totaling 2 million leaving 7 million for a 2nd line winger and a top 4 defenceman. The year after, Yakupov will likely be up to 6 million but that's where Horcoff comes off the books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDeeds Posted January 28, 2013 Report Share Posted January 28, 2013 Hall-RNH-Eberle (6)-(3.775)-(6) = 15.775 Yakupov-Gagner-Hemsky (3.775)-(4.5)-(5) = 13.274 Smyth-Horcoff-Paajarvi (2.25)-(5.5)-(1) = 8.75 Jones-Belanger-Hartikainen (1.5)-(1.75)-(1) = 4.25 EXTRA: (1) = 43.049 Smid-Petry (3.75)-(1.75) = 5.5 Schultz-Schultz (3.5)-(3.775) = 7.275 Fistric-? (2)-(2) = 4 EXTRA: (1.5) = 18.275 Dubnyk (3.5), Backup (1.5) = 5 Total: 66.324. Bonus cushion $8,550,000 which might not count at all against next year's cap (I forget). Either way, I did a lot of rounding up and the Oilers are slightly over if every player hits their bonuses which is impossible since there isn't ties for MVP awards. .......... Cap geek shows the 8.5 m bonus against your cap. Trouble is Your figures show you over the 64 mil cap by 2mil. You might be able to get around that by not re-signing some or all of your 9 RFA's coming due this summer that are on your non-roster player list. I think that was JJ's point that you go from a fiscally almost floor team this season to an almost max cap team next year with some really high salary players to sign. ...... Calgary, on the other hand, has 9 free agents next year. This includes Iginla an Babchuck, both of which will demand substantially Less money ..... I don't see any allowances for Backlund and Cervenka. Both would likely get some increases assuming they perform close to expectations. Irving will also have to be dealt with or an offer to Ramo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted January 28, 2013 Report Share Posted January 28, 2013 Cap geek shows the 8.5 m bonus against your cap. Trouble is Your figures show you over the 64 mil cap by 2mil. You might be able to get around that by not re-signing some or all of your 9 RFA's coming due this summer that are on your non-roster player list. I think that was JJ's point that you go from a fiscally almost floor team this season to an almost max cap team next year with some really high salary players to sign. That's my starting point, yes. The next logical thought, is that if Edmonton's smart and they intend on keeping players like RNH and Schultz, they need to start saving and cutting. As in, now. At the end of this season. I'm fine either way...if they want to max their cap next year, they can go right ahead. Schultz would look way better in red. ..... I don't see any allowances for Backlund and Cervenka. Both would likely get some increases assuming they perform close to expectations. Irving will also have to be dealt with or an offer to Ramo Whoever the Flame's backup is, they're likely not going to be expensive. Irving just cleared waivers recently, his salary is negligable right now. Cervenka already makes good money, and he's not getting any younger. We'll see. IF Backlund keeps playing like he is, he'll get a raise. TJ Brodie as well. Some of that money will come from Babchuk, who isn't going to get 2.5M again. Some of it will also come from Iginla, who, awesome as he is, won't be signing for anywhere near 7 million at age 36. Not even if he sells to the highest bidder. I'm expecting we'll have more cap space next year than this. Possibly enough for another key signing. And it just gets better the next year, with J-bo, Cammy, and Kipper's salaries all normalizing. Big changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DL44 Posted January 28, 2013 Report Share Posted January 28, 2013 Bonuses don't count against the cap this CBA. So that $8.5 mil in bonus money the Oilers have is Space. If the bonuses are realized, the following yr it comes off the cap space.. That was my understanding of the CBA.. so i stand to be corrected. EDIT: Capgeek actually does NOT include bonuses in the cap space calculation. SO that supports the idea that bonuses no longer count against the cap until after the season. So Edmonton doesn't appear they will have any issues keeping the players they want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConnorFutureGM Posted January 28, 2013 Report Share Posted January 28, 2013 Bonuses don't count against the cap this CBA. So that $8.5 mil in bonus money the Oilers have is Space. If the bonuses are realized, the following yr it comes off the cap space.. That was my understanding of the CBA.. so i stand to be corrected. EDIT: Capgeek actually does NOT include bonuses in the cap space calculation. SO that supports the idea that bonuses no longer count against the cap until after the season. So Edmonton doesn't appear they will have any issues keeping the players they want. That's not even taking into consideration the two buyouts the Oilers will have. I'm not worried at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnrefinedCrude Posted January 29, 2013 Report Share Posted January 29, 2013 So Edmonton doesn't appear they will have any issues keeping the players they want. This is the reality. jjgallow has his head up in it, yet again. nice to try insult me, and follow up with ill informed vitriol. like i say there are a lot of legitimate reasons to rip the Oilers organization to shreds, but an eye to cap management is arguably the only thing positive to say about Tamblowe. The new CBA doesn't count bonuses in the same way, this was done to prevent teams like the Isles frrom using them to meet the cap floor. Edmonton is not in the same financial straits that it encountered under the tail end of the Pocklington era, or under the EIG. if you are going to try be condescending, you should at least make a minimal effort to be right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted January 29, 2013 Report Share Posted January 29, 2013 OMG, This is about bonuses now? Unbelievable.....trust me, the bonuses were never going to be the problem either way. Wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnrefinedCrude Posted January 29, 2013 Report Share Posted January 29, 2013 OMG, This is about bonuses now? Unbelievable.....trust me, the bonuses were never going to be the problem either way. Wow. no it's about you not understanding what you read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConnorFutureGM Posted January 29, 2013 Report Share Posted January 29, 2013 Players that needed to be good and are: Hemsky, J.Schultz Player surpassing expectations thus far: Belanger, Gagner Players still yet to be determined: Dubnyk, Paajarvi, Hartikainen Players under performing: Whitney, Smyth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConnorFutureGM Posted January 29, 2013 Report Share Posted January 29, 2013 Guess who's in the division lead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C_worthy Posted January 29, 2013 Report Share Posted January 29, 2013 Guess who's in the division lead. Did you just copy this post from November last season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnrefinedCrude Posted January 29, 2013 Report Share Posted January 29, 2013 Did you just copy this post from November last season? You don't think a 5 game sample is an accurate indicator? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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