bronco73 Posted October 5, 2012 Report Share Posted October 5, 2012 I rail about the Oilers but part of that is disappointment @ what a once great team has been reduced to. It feels like KLowe has removed any shred of pride. It's hard to imagine a fan base (1 that I always saw as knowledgeable) not only allowing that but applauding it. I see KLowe as a major part of the problem but Katz is unlikely to get rid of him. Schultz as UFA is a start but, as dude points out, it's his best chance for big ice time to get a large 2nd contract. His situation was away from the norm & leaves his motives a ?. _____________________________________ As to JBo, other contracts for top pairing minute crunchers have put his contract right in the ballpark. I expect the offers to come in once teams see what they have to work with. There weren't any major trades over the summer other then the Nash trade that the BJs had backed themselves into a corner on (I figure the POed him enough to ask for a trade). GMs were reluctant with the CBA being an unknown (even though the UFA frenzy proceeded as usual that was early when management had more hope of a quick resolution.). Since nobody knows what he was promised and by whom as far as ice time, salary, and pairings are concerned, it wouldn't really be fair to say that the only place where he was able to get good ice time and contract was Edmonton. Likewise the same can be said of his motives. Unless we know what was offered and by whom, we cannot in fairness criticize his motives for his choice. One thing that can be said though is that for the first time in a long time, a highly sought after player did in fact select Edmonton as his destination of choice. You've gotta give us that one. As far as JBO goes, we can all agree to disagree I guess. I still feel he is overpaid for the value returned, and many (or most) Flames fans do not agree with me. Fair enough? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stranger Posted October 8, 2012 Report Share Posted October 8, 2012 Sorry boyz..the JBO jinx stays in Calgary.Can you imagine,the guys pushing 30 and hasnt been in the playoffs since Bantam hockey.Even with the pretty well automatic 14-16pts the rebuilding Oilers gave them yearly the Flames kept the jinx alive since he showed up..Whats goes to happen now.? I can see it now...Feaster waddling up to the mic.."The Calgary Flames and their fans would like to thank friend and fellow U.S lawyer Gary Bettman with the way he handled the players dispute.Gary,you made all of us lawyers proud and showed the people why we should be involved in the great game of hockey even if neither of us played the game.With the 1st overall selection the Flames proudly select,from Bonvoyage Highschool in Quebec,,Pierre Boinroy.".And Pierre will be the best thing since sliced bread,Feaster will be telling you.I dont make this stuff up..honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyerfan52 Posted October 8, 2012 Report Share Posted October 8, 2012 Since nobody knows what he was promised and by whom as far as ice time, salary, and pairings are concerned, it wouldn't really be fair to say that the only place where he was able to get good ice time and contract was Edmonton. Likewise the same can be said of his motives. Unless we know what was offered and by whom, we cannot in fairness criticize his motives for his choice. One thing that can be said though is that for the first time in a long time, a highly sought after player did in fact select Edmonton as his destination of choice. You've gotta give us that one. As far as JBO goes, we can all agree to disagree I guess. I still feel he is overpaid for the value returned, and many (or most) Flames fans do not agree with me. Fair enough? We don't know Schultz's motivation for picking Edmonton (he might like the West Edmonto Mall) but it does look like the best place to get lots of ice time because those in his age group are the 1s being relied on. That gives him more opportunity to showcase himself for that 2nd contract (or an OS since he showed 0 loyalty to the Ducks). For now this is a FA win for the Oilers so I definitly give you that. Your fans deserve some positives besides holding onto the dream that the #1 picks will be the next Gretzky, Messier & Kurri (you know I'm referring to certain other posters). As I mentioned, I'd love to have the BoA become a "must see" again. We can disagree on JBo. I don't think he's overpaid for what he does by much as I see him as = to Timonen who makes .4 less. In O&B JBo would probably put up similar #s. I'm not the only 1 on the Flyers board that would like to see JBo as Timo's replacement. But that's just a personal assessment of a player. _____________________________________________ We root for teams with totally different plans/ideals (& Katz/Lowe make the Oilers easy targets for critizism) but we're just giving our own viewpoint on various subjects. Sometimes it gets a bit heated but that's what happens with rivals (I'm sure you've seen exchanges between us Flames fans & 'Nuck fans). It just isn't in my nature to accept a "lose to win" strategy. As I said above I realize the Oilers were forced into that but can't comprehend it being a source of pride. _____________________________________________ BTW, Bloge Salming has a fun take on Schultz on the out-takes part of Down Goes Brown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stranger Posted October 8, 2012 Report Share Posted October 8, 2012 Theyve got a great classic on the Oilers board right now.Gretz getting 50 in 39 games.5 goals against the Flyers no less.Theres a disappointing franchise.Schnieder spending billions and when was their last hurrah.72-73 ??,yipes..!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyerfan52 Posted October 8, 2012 Report Share Posted October 8, 2012 Theyve got a great classic on the Oilers board right now.Gretz getting 50 in 39 games.5 goals against the Flyers no less.Theres a disappointing franchise.Schnieder spending billions and when was their last hurrah.72-73 ??,yipes..!! Yippee! Sam Gagner had 8 points in a game against the Blackhawks. That tied the franchise record held by Gretzky & Coffey. BTW, it's Ed Snider (not Schnieder) & our last Cup was '74-75. '72-73 was a loss to the SC champion Canadiens in the ECF. Also the 1st expansion team to win the Cup & last to do so with an all Canadian roster. But the Flyers have only picked 1/1 once (1975 with a pick acquired from the Caps). Since 1967-68 they've missed the playoffs 6 times. The Oilers have missed 12 times (6 in the last 6 seasons & likely to climb) since '79-80. The Oilers started their NHL life with a good roster from the WHA (no Avco Cups BTW) while most expansion teams started with other teams scraps instead of a Gretzky & Messier. __________________________________________ You really know your hockey history to base it on 1 game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stranger Posted October 8, 2012 Report Share Posted October 8, 2012 No,the Oilers were raided.They were allowed to keep 3 skaters and a tender.The rest went into a pot for existing NHL teams to choose from.Not a fair deal but who says the NHL was ever fair.5 years later the Oiler stuck it to them in a big way.Quite an amazing feat really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C_worthy Posted October 8, 2012 Report Share Posted October 8, 2012 All drafts do. That's their entire purpose. No Bronco, the purpose of drafts is to fairly distribute new young players into the league (as opposed to them all going to the highest bidder). A secondary purpose is sending top picks to weaker teams in order to even the playing field. The fact that the Oilers turned that into their raison d'etre, does not in any way legitimize it. Changing their "trade-for-picks-for-now" strategy to a "acquire and develop prospects at a fine pace" strategy is rebuilding. It may not be the hunker down and blow this beatch up for the rebuild that happened in Edmonton, but make no mistake, it is rebuilding. Ummm, no it's not. All teams get draft picks every year. Rebuilding is giving up the now in order to acquire more assets for the future. Properly developing their prospects, and not trading away picks to try and win now, is simply good franchise practices. But whatever, if thinking that the FLames are rebuilding makes you feel better about your team, knock yourself out. The problem with JBO is his contract. As Calgary has seen over the summer, it will not be easy to move JBO's contract especially considering his underachieving since coming to Calgary. Detroit should have been a shoe-in to move a defenseman to, yet they wanted no part of JBO, ask yourself why that is. Source please. Nice attempt at changing the facts to try and make a point. Detroit approached Calgary. The Flames weren't trying to trade JBo, they simply listened to the offers that came in. Teams came asking about JBo - ask yourself why. Disappointing comments coming from you, Bronco - this seemed more like a post from Connor or Stranger. I expect better from you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyerfan52 Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 No,the Oilers were raided.They were allowed to keep 3 skaters and a tender.The rest went into a pot for existing NHL teams to choose from.Not a fair deal but who says the NHL was ever fair.5 years later the Oiler stuck it to them in a big way.Quite an amazing feat really. The Gretzky exemption is a pretty big deal. @ 18 he should have been eligible for the draft under NHL rules. The Jets lost Bobby Hull, Kent Nilsson, Barry Long, Terry Ruskowski & most of the rest their Avco Cup winning team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C_worthy Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 No,the Oilers were raided.They were allowed to keep 3 skaters and a tender.The rest went into a pot for existing NHL teams to choose from.Not a fair deal but who says the NHL was ever fair.5 years later the Oiler stuck it to them in a big way.Quite an amazing feat really. You're right - it wasn't a fair deal. The Jets, Nords and Whalers were allowed to keep 2 skaters and a goalie. But the Oilers were allowed to keep 2 skaters, a goalie, and Gretzky. By the way, no other teams have ever entered the NHL with ANY players, so calling it unfair is beyond whiny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConnorFutureGM Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 most expansion teams started with other teams scraps instead of a Gretzky & Messier. Oilers drafted Messier in the 3rd round of the 1979 draft. Every team passed on him at least once including Winnipeg, Philadelphia and Calgary (Atlanta). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConnorFutureGM Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 You're right - it wasn't a fair deal. The Jets, Nords and Whalers were allowed to keep 2 skaters and a goalie. But the Oilers were allowed to keep 2 skaters, a goalie, and Gretzky. By the way, no other teams have ever entered the NHL with ANY players, so calling it unfair is beyond whiny. You sound whiny because the Oilers ended up with Gretzky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConnorFutureGM Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 No Bronco, the purpose of drafts is to fairly distribute new young players into the league (as opposed to them all going to the highest bidder). A secondary purpose is sending top picks to weaker teams in order to even the playing field. The fact that the Oilers turned that into their raison d'etre, does not in any way legitimize it. - Any other scenario other than the weaker teams getting the better picks is unsustainable. Ummm, no it's not. All teams get draft picks every year. Rebuilding is giving up the now in order to acquire more assets for the future. Properly developing their prospects, and not trading away picks to try and win now, is simply good franchise practices. But whatever, if thinking that the FLames are rebuilding makes you feel better about your team, knock yourself out. - All teams try to put emphasis within a certain age bracket in one form or another. Flames have been putting all of their eggs in the win now basket for years. Source please. Nice attempt at changing the facts to try and make a point. Detroit approached Calgary. The Flames weren't trying to trade JBo, they simply listened to the offers that came in. Teams came asking about JBo - ask yourself why. - Where's your source to the Flames are listening to offers for Bouwmeester? The only halfway legit source I heard on Bouwmeester was Roger Millions on a tweet at the beginning of the off season. Disappointing comments coming from you, Bronco - this seemed more like a post from Connor or Stranger. I expect better from you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsp393 Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 google bouwmeester rumors and I'm sure you will find atleast one viable source on detroit making offers for bouw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConnorFutureGM Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 google bouwmeester rumors and I'm sure you will find atleast one viable source on detroit making offers for bouw. The best I git was the Calgary Sun quoting a website which said they got their info from high up Wings people. The article was written by Brendan Savage. I don't know him to be an insider. He could be but because he doesn't have the history of being an insider he is not an insider until proven otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsp393 Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 The best I git was the Calgary Sun quoting a website which said they got their info from high up Wings people. The article was written by Brendan Savage. I don't know him to be an insider. He could be but because he doesn't have the history of being an insider he is not an insider until proven otherwise. Theres many different sites referencing it, Bleacher report and cbs being two or the higher profile, they all reference it from brendan savage but irregardless the fact is that obviously lots of sports reporters don't find it out to lunch. I even saw one by the edmonton journal talking about edmonton trading for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConnorFutureGM Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 Theres many different sites referencing it, Bleacher report and cbs being two or the higher profile, they all reference it from brendan savage but irregardless the fact is that obviously lots of sports reporters don't find it out to lunch. I even saw one by the edmonton journal talking about edmonton trading for him. There was a lot of speculation for sure, but nothing very solid like most trade rumors. Either way, saying the Flames were trying to dump him is on the same level as they were listening to offers but not shopping him. Unless an insider with a better track record states what the Flames' intentions are with Bouwmeester, everyone is merely speculating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsp393 Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 There was a lot of speculation for sure, but nothing very solid like most trade rumors. Either way, saying the Flames were trying to dump him is on the same level as they were listening to offers but not shopping him. Unless an insider with a better track record states what the Flames' intentions are with Bouwmeester, everyone is merely speculating. I don't know any insiders claiming calgary's try to dump bouw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 I think it's awesome that this Oilers thread is mostly about Gretzky and Bouwmeester When you think about it, that sums things up pretty well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConnorFutureGM Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 I don't know any insiders claiming calgary's try to dump bouw. I'm saying no insiders have stated Feaster's intentions either way. I think it's awesome that this Oilers thread is mostly about Gretzky and Bouwmeester When you think about it, that sums things up pretty well. yep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C_worthy Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 I'm saying no insiders have stated Feaster's intentions either way. Feaster is the ultimate insider. And he has said several times that he isn't trying to trade Bouwmeester, but that teams have asked about him. You can choose not to believe him if you like, but since there are no claims by any "insiders" to the contracry, your refusal to believe Feaster just comes off as antagonistic and childish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DL44 Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 Feaster is the ultimate insider. And he has said several times that he isn't trying to trade Bouwmeester, but that teams have asked about him. You can choose not to believe him if you like, but since there are no claims by any "insiders" to the contracry, your refusal to believe Feaster just comes off as antagonistic and childish. antagonistic and childish... or based on a large sample of history - just regular skepticism of anything that comes out of any management's mouth? But considering the board maybe its the former... otherwise, the latter is usually a default setting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kulstad Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 Google Search: Feaster Bouwmeester (https://www.google.ca/#hl=en&sugexp=les%3B&gs_nf=1&tok=yZRDbogr1dWomWj4vyeaWw&cp=20&gs_id=ph&xhr=t&q=feaster+bouwmeester&pf=p&safe=off&sclient=psy-ab&oq=feaster+bouwmeester+&gs_l=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&fp=22d639e7c53e3cfb&biw=1680&bih=864) Darren Dreger, TSN Blog post August 18, 2012: (http://www.tsn.ca/blogs/darren_dreger/?id=398673) Like most teams, the Flames are looking for a Top 6 forward - ideally, a centre. Mikael Backlund and Jay Bouwmeester are among those the Flames would trade. But with two years remaining at a whopping $6.7 million per season, Bouwmeester is going to be a tough sell. NHL Fan Chat August 27, 2012 "Flames Trade Situations Progressing" (http://nhlfanchat.com/articles/flames-trade-situations-progressing--2) Feaster has been shopping around top 4 defenseman Jay Bouwmeester on the trade market this offseason but isnt getting the offers he wants in return. As of right now, the Flyers are the front runners for Jay Bo as Feaster knows Flyers GM Paul Holmgren is in panic mode and will deal man pieces in a deal for a top 4 defenseman. NHL Fan Chat July 30, 2012 "Red Wings offer the Flames Filpulla+ for Bouwmeester" (http://nhlfanchat.com/articles/red-wings-offer-the-flames-filppula-for-bouwmeester--2) The Flames have been rumored to have Jay Bouwmeester on the block all summer, and with all the big-named defenseman choosing to sign elsewhere (Suter/Minnesota, Carle/Tampa, Wideman/Calgary), the market value for Bouwmeester has never been this high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsp393 Posted October 10, 2012 Report Share Posted October 10, 2012 I honestly think it would be a big mistake to trade bouwmeester right now for anything other then a #1 or potential #1 c whos atleast top 6 ready (berglund). I know the majority of flames fans would disagree about that but Widemans not a bouwmeester replacement, rather someone to pull bouwmeester out of the -21 hole. If he is traded for chl or ahl prospects, picks, wingers or that filpula erickson deal I will be very disappointed. For those that are going to say we won't get the return I want on bouwmeester right now, I mostly agree and therefore want to keep him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyerfan52 Posted October 10, 2012 Report Share Posted October 10, 2012 I honestly think it would be a big mistake to trade bouwmeester right now for anything other then a #1 or potential #1 c whos atleast top 6 ready (berglund). I know the majority of flames fans would disagree about that but Widemans not a bouwmeester replacement, rather someone to pull bouwmeester out of the -21 hole. If he is traded for chl or ahl prospects, picks, wingers or that filpula erickson deal I will be very disappointed. For those that are going to say we won't get the return I want on bouwmeester right now, I mostly agree and therefore want to keep him. I've stated what I see as JBo's return for a while. Some are starting to believe that's what he'll garner. Most were team specific & rosters have changed as have team needs but I still see the return as a top 9 forward (or prospect that would probably start @ least 3rd line on teams that aren't stacked @ forward), a top 4 defense (the 1 JBo would replace) & a 1st rounder or highly rated prospect. Most likely a current top 9 to make the $s work. Of course, that's from a contender as I doubt he'd waive to go to a perpetual bottom feeder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted October 10, 2012 Report Share Posted October 10, 2012 I've stated what I see as JBo's return for a while. Some are starting to believe that's what he'll garner. Most were team specific & rosters have changed as have team needs but I still see the return as a top 9 forward (or prospect that would probably start @ least 3rd line on teams that aren't stacked @ forward), a top 4 defense (the 1 JBo would replace) & a 1st rounder or highly rated prospect. Most likely a current top 9 to make the $s work. Of course, that's from a contender as I doubt he'd waive to go to a perpetual bottom feeder. Personally, I think Babchuk would look much better in an Oilers jersey. We could throw in some untainted beef, maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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