Oilers

[conundrumed]

I dont disagree with you that it helps them in the short term, and I like the hall trade I just think they should have got a little bit more for him. I live in edmonton so I get to listen to all the talk shows up here and they arent very happy with the lucic signing, everyone agrees that short term its a good signing, long term its going to bite them in the checking from behind, unless you think the game is slowing down, which I dont. The whole justifying the hall trade with the lucic signing doesnt really make sense to me either.

 

Larsson played good minutes in NJ last year, and getting a young D men on a good contract who he can do that is going to cost you, they still could have got a 2nd on top for hall.

Well the bolded explains a few things lol.

I was shocked when I read this trade, but I didn't think NJ stole anything.

I still don't.

Player for player, considering contracts and team needs, I believe Chia did a good job.

For all of the RNH and Eberle rumours, I agree in moving Hall instead.

I indeed agree the game is getting faster. IQ and playmaking aren't exactly Hall's M.O.

[xstrike]

Edmonton Oilers' goal line defence strategy.

 

Example #1

Example #2

 

[i think I got the images to work admins.]

 

Edit (didn't want to double post):

More hilarious Oilers stuff. This is from mynhltraderumors.com/boston-bruins-carolina-hurricanes-edmonton-oilers/2016/07/13/

Chris Nichols of Today’s Slapshot: Kevin Lowe on Sportsnet 590 on the void on the Oilers blueline before the Taylor Hall–Adam Larsson, and the Oilers spending years thinking you need top-end forwards to win.

“So for over a decade, we worked at acquiring those top-end forwards, thinking that that would be the difference. But I think witnessing it long enough, realized that you need to build from the back end out, you need to be strong down the middle. We certainly are that way with Ryan Nugent-Hopkins, and Leon Draisaitl, and now Connor McDavid.

 

“So the foundation is there. Peter Chiarelli has had big success wherever he’s been. We believe that he’s going to help lead that going into the new building this year.”

 

It took you 10 years to figure this out?!

[robrob1974]

You can always justify it by looking at Lucic. But that has zero to do with the trade.

Hall for Brodie? How is that the same as Hall for Larsson. Leading scoring winger for a defense.

How about Gaudreau for Larsson? Leading scoring winger for a defense.

Conundrum made total sense. He asked whether we would trade Brodie for Hall. So Conundrum is asking whether Brodie equates to Larsson and would you or any of us trade Brodes for Hall straight up?

It's a fair question.

[conundrumed]

Edmonton Oilers' goal line defence strategy.

 

Example #1

Example #2

 

Where is #4? You know, the winger...the guy whose assignment was #7 for the Flames, or #24, take your pick lol...

[conundrumed]

Conundrum made total sense. He asked whether we would trade Brodie for Hall. So Conundrum is asking whether Brodie equates to Larsson and would you or any of us trade Brodes for Hall straight up?

It's a fair question.

In td's defense, he did mention Hall is worth Brodie or Seabrook previously.

I'm just pressing him on the Brodie lol. No way do I even think about that.

Seabrook's contract is a non-starter.

Roman Josi? See Brodie. Any Dman starting with "Ryan"? Why?

Weber's contract? Subban's D?

I view it as Chia pried Larsson out of NJ, and I too, would have done it with Hall whilst staring at my top 6 forward skill.

We'll see how it plays out.

[travel_dude]

Conundrum made total sense. He asked whether we would trade Brodie for Hall. So Conundrum is asking whether Brodie equates to Larsson and would you or any of us trade Brodes for Hall straight up?

It's a fair question.

 

It's always tough to equate players.  By the same token, there are players worth the same that I would still not make a trade for.

 

Brodie >> Larsson

Hall ~= Gaudreau

 

My opionion of Brodie is that he is already a top pairing D-man, and still will become better.  Does Larsson ever reach that same level?  Don't know.  Right now, the two are not the same.  I would not trade Brodie for Larsson.  

 

Hall and Gaudreau are similar in value.  I think Johnny has a higher ceiling.  But Hall has size and a harder shot.  I would not trade Johnny for Hall.

 

To sum it up:

Wouldn't trade Brodie for Larsson

Wouldn't trade Brodie for Hall

Wouldn't trade Johnny for Hall

Wouldn't trade Johnny for Larsson

 

None of those trades makes us any better.

[conundrumed]

If anything, the return should have included at least a prospect.  A NHL winger near the top of the league in points should get you something like a Brodie or Seabrooke. 

Sorry, should have quoted this in my prior post.

[travel_dude]

Sorry, should have quoted this in my prior post.

 

I know you get what I am saying.  Value.  They should have gotten something closer to a Brodie for Hall,  Does not mean I would ever do that deal.  

[Flyerfan52]

I know you get what I am saying.  Value.  They should have gotten something closer to a Brodie for Hall,  Does not mean I would ever do that deal.  

They got the best they could. Larsson is that sought after RD the Oilers needed so badly while wingers (even very god 1s) don't carry the same trade value. Think about it. How many teams are searching/hoping for a winger to take the next step?

 

NJ signed Lovejoy to try to replace Larsson while adding Hall to a rather lacking forward core. They gain a little @ forward but lose by the same/more on D.

Meanwhile Edmonton replaced Hall with Lucic so are at worst even @ wing while adding a real defenseman.

Originally I thought Edmonton should have received a pick to even things out but only days later see the Oilers got stronger while the Debbies got weaker.

We'll see by next years standings who won in the trade & following signing but I'm more worried about facing the Oilers now than I was last year.

NJ flipped #11 for #12 this year but I figure they get a good crack @ 1 of the 5 top picks in what is considered a weak 2017 draft.

-------------------------------------------------------

BTW, I know you like Lowry & Armia. What would you think of a Brodie (LD) for Trouba (RD) & 1 of those 2 deal?

[travel_dude]

They got the best they could. Larsson is that sought after RD the Oilers needed so badly while wingers (even very god 1s) don't carry the same trade value. Think about it. How many teams are searching/hoping for a winger to take the next step?

 

NJ signed Lovejoy to try to replace Larsson while adding Hall to a rather lacking forward core. They gain a little @ forward but lose by the same/more on D.

Meanwhile Edmonton replaced Hall with Lucic so are at worst even @ wing while adding a real defenseman.

Originally I thought Edmonton should have received a pick to even things out but only days later see the Oilers got stronger while the Debbies got weaker.

We'll see by next years standings who won in the trade & following signing but I'm more worried about facing the Oilers now than I was last year.

NJ flipped #11 for #12 this year but I figure they get a good crack @ 1 of the 5 top picks in what is considered a weak 2017 draft.

-------------------------------------------------------

BTW, I know you like Lowry & Armia. What would you think of a Brodie (LD) for Trouba (RD) & 1 of those 2 deal?

 

The problem with the deal (beyond losing Brodie) is that Trouba is a RD, which replaces Brodie on the top pair, but makes us a bt weaker with LHS's.  The other side is the unknown cost to re-sign Trouba.  He will likely be more than Brodie.

 

I worry less about the Oilers right now.  Lucic gives them added size, but they lose some of the speed we had trouble with.  Larsson improves their defense, but they have quite a ways further to go.  The Oilers had two problems winning last year; goals for and against.  They have solved part of the goals against.  Hall may have been bad defensively, but he was one of the reasons they won anything this past year.

 

I am most interested to see if Chia is done.  Bottom 6 still mostly sucks.

[conundrumed]

The problem with the deal (beyond losing Brodie) is that Trouba is a RD, which replaces Brodie on the top pair, but makes us a bt weaker with LHS's.  The other side is the unknown cost to re-sign Trouba.  He will likely be more than Brodie.

 

I worry less about the Oilers right now.  Lucic gives them added size, but they lose some of the speed we had trouble with.  Larsson improves their defense, but they have quite a ways further to go.  The Oilers had two problems winning last year; goals for and against.  They have solved part of the goals against.  Hall may have been bad defensively, but he was one of the reasons they won anything this past year.

 

I am most interested to see if Chia is done.  Bottom 6 still mostly sucks.

I think we view Hall differently. It's hard to just be a pure snipe in this league anymore outside of Ovi. But even with Ovi, he's blessed with center of gravity that makes him tough to knock off the puck.

Hall doesn't have that. Watch a full game of him and watch how many times he's on the ice. It's almost like, "Man, do you know how to skate"? Now watch his passing, he's not hopping passes over a defender's stick anytime soon. He has zero playmaking ability.

With Hall, his knock was always, "he's only North-South". I'd argue a lot more North than South.

This past season, I heard a lot of, "his East-West game has improved". I argue that too.

So my value on Hall is not huge to begin with. I would in fact keep RNH over him and Eberle and Hall are closer value to me.

Stats be damned, I take the best player. Of those 3, it's RNH. He will get to full health one of these seasons, he's usually dynamic all over when he's going.

 

As for Brodie for Trouba and a prospect, sorry ff, not interested.

Maybe a day will come to trade Brodie for Wheeler or Laine, but I'm seriously doubting it, and it definitely isn't now.

It was only the start of the season passed that we saw our team without Brodie. Atrocity is pretty close.

I'm good with calling Gio & Brodie our Keith and Seabrook. Wouldn't trade either for either, contracts be known.

[robrob1974]

I think we view Hall differently. It's hard to just be a pure snipe in this league anymore outside of Ovi. But even with Ovi, he's blessed with center of gravity that makes him tough to knock off the puck.

Hall doesn't have that. Watch a full game of him and watch how many times he's on the ice. It's almost like, "Man, do you know how to skate"? Now watch his passing, he's not hopping passes over a defender's stick anytime soon. He has zero playmaking ability.

With Hall, his knock was always, "he's only North-South". I'd argue a lot more North than South.

This past season, I heard a lot of, "his East-West game has improved". I argue that too.

So my value on Hall is not huge to begin with. I would in fact keep RNH over him and Eberle and Hall are closer value to me.

Stats be damned, I take the best player. Of those 3, it's RNH. He will get to full health one of these seasons, he's usually dynamic all over when he's going.

As for Brodie for Trouba and a prospect, sorry ff, not interested.

Maybe a day will come to trade Brodie for Wheeler or Laine, but I'm seriously doubting it, and it definitely isn't now.

It was only the start of the season passed that we saw our team without Brodie. Atrocity is pretty close.

I'm good with calling Gio & Brodie our Keith and Seabrook. Wouldn't trade either for either, contracts be known.

I think RNH was one of the guys that needed to come in slowly. His skill was there but his body frame wasn't, and I think was about 2 extra years from developing.

Like you said, he will be healthy one day and maybe that's this year?

[xstrike]

Okay, last one for a while. (There's just so many good, funny Oilers images.)

 

[conundrumed]

I think RNH was one of the guys that needed to come in slowly. His skill was there but his body frame wasn't, and I think was about 2 extra years from developing.

Like you said, he will be healthy one day and maybe that's this year?

I can see Draisaitl moved to wing, ala Galchenyuk.

Bennett's much closer to an NHL C than Draisaitl imho.

If Draisaitl's a 2C, I'm jumping all over matchups.

Protected 3C, sure.

But it is Edmonton, sky's the limit lol.

[travel_dude]

I can see Draisaitl moved to wing, ala Galchenyuk.

Bennett's much closer to an NHL C than Draisaitl imho.

If Draisaitl's a 2C, I'm jumping all over matchups.

Protected 3C, sure.

But it is Edmonton, sky's the limit lol.

 

The funny things about Draisaitl was that Hall drove the play for that line more.  Without Hall it should be an interesting forward group.

[conundrumed]

The funny things about Draisaitl was that Hall drove the play for that line more.  Without Hall it should be an interesting forward group.

I think it just means, if that's your 2nd pairing, you'll lose a lot.

Trading Hall shows that pairing wasn't on the agenda. Can't blame them.

Draisaitl's that, "Big centerman", but he is not ready for the responsibilities at C.

You have to admit, they've done nothing but rush in every need they've had.

[xstrike]

I can see Draisaitl moved to wing, ala Galchenyuk.

Bennett's much closer to an NHL C than Draisaitl imho.

If Draisaitl's a 2C, I'm jumping all over matchups.

Protected 3C, sure.

But it is Edmonton, sky's the limit lol.

Wait, we're still trying to predict what Oilers management is thinking? I thought we'd established they are madmen.

 

That said, lots of people want Bennett at C to learn the ropes; so why the thoughts/suggestions Drais not do the same. Unless you're doing the thing where you're trying to predict madmen...?

[conundrumed]

Wait, we're still trying to predict what Oilers management is thinking? I thought we'd established they are madmen.

 

That said, lots of people want Bennett at C to learn the ropes; so why the thoughts/suggestions Drais not do the same. Unless you're doing the thing where you're trying to predict madmen...?

They've had a new mgr and coach for 1 yr. A little early to call it Lowe and MacTavish...

 

Why do you treat Bennett and Draisaitl like they're the same player on the same team?

[Kulstad]

Wait, we're still trying to predict what Oilers management is thinking? I thought we'd established they are madmen.

 

That said, lots of people want Bennett at C to learn the ropes; so why the thoughts/suggestions Drais not do the same. Unless you're doing the thing where you're trying to predict madmen...?

They've had a new mgr and coach for 1 yr. A little early to call it Lowe and MacTavish...

 

Why do you treat Bennett and Draisaitl like they're the same player on the same team?

 

He's making the comparison that if the Flames are wanting Bennet to learn how to play centre, why is it difficult to think that the Oilers are doing the same thing with Draisaitl? "Unless you're doing the thhing where you're trying to predict madmen...?"

 

Clearer now?

[conundrumed]

He's making the comparison that if the Flames are wanting Bennet to learn how to play centre, why is it difficult to think that the Oilers are doing the same thing with Draisaitl? "Unless you're doing the thhing where you're trying to predict madmen...?"

 

Clearer now?

It never wasn't clear.

Bennett and Draisaitl are not linear in progression due to draft status.

2 different teams, 2 different needs from each.

I'm not here to belittle Draisaitl, the option for a big RW is no different than Bennett on the LW.

Monahan

Backlund

Bennett clearly has C  opportunity.

 

McDavid

RNH

Draisaitl does not have opportunity on his side, imho.

 

Completely different circumstances. Trade one for the other, same circumstance.

[xstrike]

He's making the comparison that if the Flames are wanting Bennet to learn how to play centre, why is it difficult to think that the Oilers are doing the same thing with Draisaitl? "Unless you're doing the thhing where you're trying to predict madmen...?"

 

Clearer now?

Yep. That and trying to throw in some fun and jabs.

 

It never wasn't clear.

Bennett and Draisaitl are not linear in progression due to draft status.

2 different teams, 2 different needs from each.

I'm not here to belittle Draisaitl, the option for a big RW is no different than Bennett on the LW.

Monahan

Backlund

Bennett clearly has C  opportunity.

 

McDavid

RNH

Draisaitl does not have opportunity on his side, imho.

 

Completely different circumstances. Trade one for the other, same circumstance.

Meh, things happen. Injuries, etc. I figure why not groom a player picked as a center to be a center. He could pass RNH given time; RNH could have a career-ending injury. RNH has had injury problems in the past right?

But hey, if you'd rather stick him on the wing....

[travel_dude]

Yep. That and trying to throw in some fun and jabs.

 

Meh, things happen. Injuries, etc. I figure why not groom a player picked as a center to be a center. He could pass RNH given time; RNH could have a career-ending injury. RNH has had injury problems in the past right?

But hey, if you'd rather stick him on the wing....

 

They really don't know what to do with Nuge.  He's not good enough to be a #1C.  He's not rugged enough to play center to Drai.

He's too expensive to be a #3C.  He may be good at two way hockey (hint - not Backlund good), but he is really just better at offense than defense.  They would be better off moving Nuge for another LW player.  That seems to be their weakest link right now at forward.  Lucic, Pouliot, Maroon and Hendricks.  Not very impressive.

[robrob1974]

Why not move RNH to wing?

Cs don't have to play C just because that's what they always played...

I don't get why some feel like that's how things have to be?

[Flyerfan52]

They really don't know what to do with Nuge.  He's not good enough to be a #1C.  He's not rugged enough to play center to Drai.

He's too expensive to be a #3C.  He may be good at two way hockey (hint - not Backlund good), but he is really just better at offense than defense.  They would be better off moving Nuge for another LW player.  That seems to be their weakest link right now at forward.  Lucic, Pouliot, Maroon and Hendricks.  Not very impressive.

@ $6 million he's too expensive to play  dang near anywhere. He won't/can't dig in the corners like top 6 wingers either.

He's a victim of KLowe's phobia that good players will desert @ their 1st chance.

The bigger need is another top 4 NHL quality D. Nurse is expected to be that someday but when is someday when the need is now?

 

A few teams are short enough @ center that on those he'd be the #1 by default although again the return will PO some Oiler fans that viewed all Golden Boys (especially 1/1s) as gold.

[travel_dude]

@ $6 million he's too expensive to play  dang near anywhere. He won't/can't dig in the corners like top 6 wingers either.

He's a victim of KLowe's phobia that good players will desert @ their 1st chance.

The bigger need is another top 4 NHL quality D. Nurse is expected to be that someday but when is someday when the need is now?

 

A few teams are short enough @ center that on those he'd be the #1 by default although again the return will PO some Oiler fans that viewed all Golden Boys (especially 1/1s) as gold.

 

At this point I am thinking Oiler fans don't care about the older 1st overalls.  Nuge, Hall (gone), Yak....Only one of them seemed to have reached respectable numbers.  They keep getting a new 1st overall every other year anyway.  They lost three lottos and still ended up with one of the top tier.  

 

They are founded on hope for the next 1st.  The big Finn and McDavid are their biggest concerns right now.  Most would love to get rid of Eberle.  Most fans are EXPECTING McDavid to score over 70 points this year.  He will be scarry good soon enough, but he has to have wingers that can keep up.  

 

I know that a top 4 D is one of their biggest needs, but they are pretty shallow on LW too.  If they are out of the playoffs well before TDL, you will see some of their defense shipped off to get more draft picks.  So the cycle continues.