Flyerfan52
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Posts posted by Flyerfan52
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My concern and why I'd be fine giving Reimer $4mill for one year is what happens if Ortio is our backup and outplays our new #1 goalie we just traded good assets for? We can only then protect one. Maybe I'm putty too much faith in Ortio's abilities.
If Ortio out plays Reimer (who on a 1 year contract will be UFA again & not need to be protected) you keep Ortio.
If neither plays well lets see if LV takes Ortio off our hands to shed whatever contract he gets.
It's a no lose proposition.
BTW, Reimer is UFA so wouldn't cost any assets. Just money & cap space.
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Chris Nichols @NicholsOnHockey
Dreger just had brief convo w/ Treliving short while ago. "It sure sounds like he's looking at Ben Bishop real hard."
For the extra 0.15 (& less term) I'd take the slightly younger Bishop 10 times out of 10. As I said in a previous post I figure he'll re-up @ a reasonable price after a year in our locker room & seeing the limited market for starting goalies.
Both teams are in similar boats needing to shed 1 of their 2 goalies (TB for cap space, Pitts because of the pending expansion draft). Both will also ask high returns initially but if BT sits tight the limited goalie market will have Stevie Y & Rutherford calling him with increasingly lower returns they would be willing to accept. Before training camp he can decide @ his price.
Regardless of who he decides on I hope we have a dang good backup/relief goalie under contract by then. I like Montoya but there are other good 1s available @ b/u prices of 1-1.5.
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Youre right, he may not get much of a raise, whoever he gets it from..unless he goes UFA, then as we all know somebody will overpay for him.
Vasilevsky however is going nowhere..not even for 6OA. One way or the other Tampa moves on from Bishop within now to a year from now and its going to be Vasilevsky s team. Nobody else in the organization is ready.
If they keep Bishop, theyve already proven with Stamkos its cup or bust, theyll keep the UFA if it means a cup run. If only because of the expansion draft I guarantee there are no extension discussions. If they keep Bishop hes going to UFA. The ONLY reason he gets moved earlier is due to cap reasons.
With all the shuffling of goalies expected this summer due to the upcoming expansion draft (all we're waiting for is the official announcement as the BoG already approved it) teams will have their #1 goalie in place.
Bishop can ask any amount he & his agent want but with little to no market he'll have to settle for the best offer from the few teams wanting an upgrade (& most of those would need to find a way to get rid of their #1 to afford it). It's like 2011 but now there is no Homer as GM of the Flyers to jump the gun & overpay Bryzgalov. The rest of the UFA goalies that year took pay cuts just to land a job.
Stevie Y might be counting on that & keep Bishop for the year, let him go UFA so he needn't be protected in the expansion draft & then sign him @ a discount.
Bishop is my 1st choice of the goalies rumored to be available. If he waives his NMC for Calgary we have as good a chance of re-signing him @ a decent price after he sees there is no market as TB currently does. & with our dearth of goalies to protect we could re-up him prior to July 1 so he never hits UFA,
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I get what you're saying, I am just saying on paper he is worth it and more. I don't want him for your same reasons.
It's the same with Subban, too high of a cap hit. I wish the league would go top salary and if you win the cup get bonuses for the star players. I think over 8m is too high for cap reasons.
But the best will always be paid bigger $s even if it means he gets surrounded by cheaper spear carriers.
It also shows the worth of drafting well so you have dang good players on those ELCs to keep the cap down.
As to the $8 million, Gaudreau & Monahan will be within spitting distance of that after they re-up.
The league has already capped top salary as no player can earn more than 20% of the cap. & the teams closest to the SC all get bonuses with the winner of course getting the biggest bonuses. I think it's the top 4.
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Dallas could use a starter, they could get rid of Lehtonen or Niemi to a team that can afford a high priced backup like Buffalo. Both contracts are 2 years so it is not a long term commitment which will give Buffalo time to groom a backup. With what Dallas gave up for Kris Russell they are in a win now mode and will probably over pay for MAF if they chose. I could see Dallas moving their 1st rd pick and a prospect for MAF, and give Buffalo or what ever other team a choice of the two of their goalies for a mid level pick.
Good thought about Buffalo as they have cap space & feel their rebuild is over so it's time to go for it.
Lehner is a good goalie but is often injured so a 2nd NHL goalie in tandem gives them a better chance. @ 2.25 he's making backup money compared to others considered #1s.
But, Lehtonen carries a 5.9 x 2 hit so Bishop @ the same price (but less term by a year) or MAF @ 5.75 (@ 1 more year term) are better deals. Niemi @ 4.5 is slightly cheaper but IMO if the Sabres decide it's time they'll use their cap space/assets for the best goalie available. An extra 1.4 from their 20+ million in cap with Ristolainen as the 1 must re-sign & a few other RFAs that don't need as big a raise they are sitting pretty.
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I am still not sure MAF will agree to come here, if Pittsburgh asks him. We are rebuilding and still not a serious playoff contender and he is on the back end of his career and just had his name put on the cup. He is in the drivers seat with a limited NMC, I am sure he would only agree to go to a contender or stay put and play out this contract. Bishop, Vasilevskiy, Bernier, Elliot are some that we may be able to get, especially Bernier may come cheap now. I still would rather go after a younger guy and bring in a experience back up as well.
& then we sign Reimer as a UFA to reunite the TML pairing that worked so well.
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It would be risky, and I am sure it would make things easier if they moved him this year. That being said if all they are getting offered is 3rd round picks and lesser prospects I would suspect that they would take their chances and move him next off season.
Given the market for goalies is already small odds are it'll be even smaller next year. Before that Calgary & TML will already have a goalie in place. Most others will either have decided which to keep so the market will be only those that see MAF as an upgrade.
A 3rd rounder is better than zilch &/or being stuck with that contract for 2 more years should LV like other goalies (or a different exposed Pengie player as they can only lose 1) more.
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Bylsma is in Buffalo now and might be keen to the idea of reuniting with Fleury.
He is but he's coach (Tim Murray is GM) so isn't in charge of trades.
Sabres gave up a 1st & took on Legwand to get Lehner although Lehner & MAF would be an interesting tandem.
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Yes Pittsburgh will be looking to move Fleury, but all I am saying is that they don't have to and they won't accept low ball offers for Fleury.
With a very limited market & other goalies (including Bishop for just 0.15 more) expected to hit the market the Pengies have 2 options.
1) Stand pat
2) Accept low offer to fill skaters spots & sign a cheaper vet to cover in case Murray stumbles.
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They already are compliant, Dupuis being on LTIR let's them go $3.75 mill over the cap. I am sure they can find a partner for Kunitz, the guy makes less than $4MIL and has put up 17 goals and 40 points the last two seasons, he has trade value.
Scrap Dupuis's 3.75 & the Pengies are @ 70.55 with 13 forwards, 6 D 7 2 goalies. A flat cap or decrease leaves them in a spot.
With accelerator used they have a little room.
Kunitz is now a complimentary player paid 3.85. For the $s & acquisition cost there are better options for other teams than a 36 yrar old.
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It's Francis, but he sums up the benefits of Fleury nicely here: http://m.calgarysun.com/2016/06/15/eric-francis-calgary-flames-goaltending-answer-is-evident--marc-andre-fleury
He's way high on what the Flames should give up with so few teams looking for a goalie. Same on cost of re-signing Bishop. The market sets the price.
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For me Kessel winning a cup doesn't change anything I said. He was and is still not someone the flames should have targeted. Good target and good move for pens but not for flames.
Same. The Pens had a spot where he wasn't "the guy" while in Calgary (or ant Canadian city) he would have remained in the spotlight.
Even with the salary retained we don't have 6.8 cap space sitting idle & the equal in players given up would hurt us more as we are building towards a SC while the Pens were trying to get 1 while they still had those core players they ditched so hard for. Now they are in serious cap trouble & the outlook of a flat/minimal raise or even drop in the total leaves them in a worse place than Chicago after their cup wins as the Hawks had good complimentary players to trade in years where the cap was expected to rise.
You're correct. Now, where are the past comments about Schultz who also has his name on the Cup?
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I agree, but it's just that we can't assume that's the route they will take. Murray played well, yes, but it is still a low number of games to grade him on. He did good, yes, but I wonder if they would wait and see if other teams figure Murray out. Is it possible Murray has weaknesses that get exposed when he plays more?
Who else would the Pengies trade to overcome their cap problem?
Crosby/Malkin? Doubtful.
Letang with his injury & suspension history @ 7.25 x 6?
Murray looks capable enough & actually plays well in big games (see MAF's 2 games these playoffs) making Fleury the most expendable/trade likely.
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If the Penguins get more then a 2nd, and not a high one, and a so/so prospect I'll be surprised. I don't see a lot of teams being able to fit his salary, allow him to play and lastly be able to protect him in the expansion draft and not cost them a better goalie. I think only 2-3 teams at best will be interested and that's going to lower the price. To get more I think they will need to retain salary
I covered it in more depth in the trade suggestions thread but the Pengies need to shed salary while an expansion draft would lead to more goalies in the market. @ 5.75 x 3 MAF would be 1 of the more expensive out there.
A 2nd is too high considering Pittsburgh's situation.
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Oh totally .. the caveat on Reimer is that we get him on a short term Show Me contract and that he values the chance to prove hes a starter over term right now, And because his options will be limited we're his best option to do that
And thats my other fear on Fleury , we cant expose him to the draft , due to his NMC.. so if he does tank, we're stuck with that contract ..
I read up on that today & the NMC only covers waivers & demotions. He also has to submit a list of 18 teams acceptable to being traded to. It's even mentioned in THN under Rumor Roundup.
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I dont want Anti Niemi either
the difference , for me, is that Reimer has shown he can be a great player on a bad team. And an even better one on a better team.
Yes, Fleury has had flashes, but many of their playoff shortcomings can be attributed to him , hes been the weakest link more times than hero.
As i mentioned before, i'l take him , hes a big upgrade over the previous , but i think Reimer is more suited to our team.
I'm not fond of either but would take Reimer if he came with a smaller cap hit.
MAF might get you to the playoffs but fades once there. The knock is he fades under pressure (& he'd see even more during the regular season in the west. So that playoff remark is in question as well.
Canada hasn't produced top goalies recently so MAF has Olympic Gold playing 0 games.He was the "WTF, 1 hurt & 1 playing bad just in case option".
@ 5.75 x 3 he's a big hit. Forget what I said about trading a 3rd & unwanted contract. If the Pens want to get rid of him for cap reasons (& that 5.75 is a lot for a backup while Murray goes RFA next year) they get the full brunt of the Raymond contract for a year while if Fleury doesn't work out this year we can expose him in the draft hoping LV sees his regular seasons as worth while to keep them up there with the 25th team as they ice a team of 7th forwards & 4th Ds backed by (well) backups.
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Pet Sportsnet, Gilles will not need to be protected in the expansion draft (interpreting the rules). Meanwhile Fleury is mandatory to protect (specifically stated). You can only protect one goalie.
Which means the Penguins absolutely have to trade Fleury. It also means that very few teams will trade for him since he can't be exposed. Waiting is a huge risk since they could run into a situation where injury or poor play prevents moving him,especially if he is now backing up Murray.
Finally, the Penguins aren't the only ones with extra goalies. TSN speculated the goalie market will be "flooded" if the expansion draft happens. Which sounds almost certain of Vegas.
Add all of that together and Fleury should be available cheap. His timeline works well for bringing in Gilles. He is a very good goalie who should remain good for the duration of his contract. The cap hit is manageable.
Fleury makes a lot of sense as a target for the Flames. My guess is at or just prior to the draft. The cost is probably a couple of second round picks (not 35) and a low level prospect.
The only way this won't make sense is if the Flames expect another expansion draft the following year. A year when Gilles may require protection and Fleury will still take up the spot.
Add to that the Pengies have 73.9 invested in 22 players with the only relief in sight being Dupuis (3.75 ) going back to LTIR. With the escalator probably being used the cap projects @ 72.8 letting them squeak but with no room for FAs & little to re-up their depth players like Beau Bennett while using yet another rookie on D. Therefore anything they get without retaining salary should be gold to Pittsburgh.
But, I've no real confidence & Fleury so would wait & see what others become available & use MAF as plan B.
Also, with the Pens in a cap jam they'll get antsier to move him as the summer wears on. Instead of a couple of 2nds & a prospect @/prior to the draft) as little as a 3rd & our unwanted prospect (roster space) will look good in a very limited market later. A rare case of patience being rewarded in the hockey world.
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CGY was on the short list, so I don't know why you think he didn't want to play here. He was offered a NHL roster spot without ever having skated in a practice. As well, the move was a couple of hundred miles for a kid that grew up and went to college in Boston.
If anything, he would play his butt off to impress. He would kill to play on Johnny's line.
If true he would have signed in Calgary 2 years ago & if he was that good he'd be with Gaudreau now rather then a 3rd liner.
Monahan seems to be doing just fine centering JH & the 2 seem to get along pretty well off ice as well.
Hayes probably wants a raise for his 36 & 45 point seasons so I'd trade F/A for his RFA rights. If NYR re-signed him to a cap friendly contract I'd look @ him but the Rags need cap friendly decent players more than we do.
Hayes doesn't fill a need. Get over the romantic notion that ex-linemates in little league will be magic. It makes as much sense as the idea having 2 brothers (or players by accident of birth coming from the same country) on the same team = magic.
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Russell @ 2.6 was a good pickup for a playoff run. Dallas gave up decent parts they could afford to lose as they were determined to go deep.
But the cap rears it's head so if Russell expects a big raise the market will probably disappoint him (& his agent) because he's just a good depth defense that can play bigger minutes if/when needed but not 1 to be counted on to do that full-time.
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I forget, isnt there some rule sbout the award amount determining if they can walk away or not? Thought I read somewhere at a certain level they could be stuck?
Good insight, why would you not start him? I agree they may not part with him for the reasons you mentioned..thinking mainly of the cap issues they face as well as possible expansion as leverage. Ideally I was thinkung to target Enroth as well for a great platoon..but curious why you dont see him as a starter?
Since he graduated to pro I've noticed that when his workload goes up his GAA does as well while his SV% drops. He can start a few games in a row if necessary but isn't the guy you want starting the majority.
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At the same time, I think we've seen the last of Joe Colborne unless a miracle happens and he signs for $1.75 or less.so I think his rights get traded at the draft.
What I think would be a good opportunity, is offer up Colbornes rights and a sweetener like a 2Nd rounder to Philly for Neuvirth. He has 1 year left at 1.6 and you'd still have money left to sign an Enroth as insurance.
Dunno would Philly part with him? Joe would look pretty good in Philly I believe
Neuvirth was a heck of a good backup last year @ 1.6. How do the Flyers replace that @ =/lower cost?
Colborne's rights & that 2nd (if it was Calgary's own) would probably do the trick. In fact you could leave Colborne out of it & use the rights in a separate trade.
He's a dang good backup but if you're looking @ him as a starter you're looking @ the wrong guy.
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My largely unresearched list of possible goalies as possible Flames starter that may be available if the expansion draft goes ahead, by team:
UFA's-
Cam Ward
James Reimer
Ana-
Gibson or Anderson (RFA)
Dallas-
Lehtonen or Niemi
Detroit-
Howard or Mrazek (RFA)
Islanders-
Halak or Griesse
Rangers-
Lundqvist or Raanta
Ottawa-
Anderson or Hammond
Philly-
Mason or Neuvirth
Pittsburgh-
Fleury or Murray
St.Louis-
Elliott or Allan
Tampa-
Vasilevsky or Bishop
Vancouver-
Miller or Markstrom
Winnipeg-
Hutchinson or Pavelich
I'm not 100% sure which of these guys have NMC though.
In my opinion, Anaheim, Detroit, Pittsburgh, St.Louis and Tampa should all be Flames trade targets. But what would it take to get the guys likely to be available? My guess is:
Anderson- 2nd round pick plus either a roster player or prospect
Howard- 2nd or 3rd round pick
Fleury (I believe has a NMC)- 2nd round pick with maybe a little more added
Elliott- probably same as Anderson
Vasilevsky- Close to Anderson
So, is it worth it for one of these guys or is it better to just try to sign Reimer, Ward, Ramo or another UFA? If so, Reimer will likely be looking at $5 millionish. Ward and Ramo would obviously be less.
Reimer & his agent will be looking for $5 million but with the possible expansion draft likely opening up trades where teams would have preferred to keep both their goalies they'll be waiting a long time.
A lot of goalies that would go on the trading block if expansion is confirmed carry a lower than $5 million cap hit while having a better track record.
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The Groin injuries that have occurred over the last 2 1/2 seasons are definitely a concern... The 9 games he just played in the tournament he looked very sharp and had full mobility... That said, maybe it does not re-occur, but what if it does?... There is a risk...
That is exactly what I was doing too...
Korpisalo played well enough that he would have stole the job from a number of starters... I know it was only 31 games (Bob played 37) but he was their best goalie last season and was quite consistent...
If there is an expansion draft and the Jackets put a Korposalo on the trade block instead, I sure wouldn't mind if the Flames picked him up and went with him for a starter either...
Either way, I think the Jackets might do a bit of a shake-up with a few players, and I was just considering possibilities...
Don't get me wrong as I'd be happy to add Bob or Koposalo but can't see a reason for the BJs to part with either of the tandem. For 8.1 combined they look pretty good.
If Korosalo looks as good next year we'll probably see Bob on the trading block by trade deadline if Columbus looks like they'll miss the play offs as he needs a raise for 2017-18 off that ELC.
Unfortunately we need a goalie now.
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I'll throw another name out there for another goalie that I think might go on the trading block... Bobrovsky...
I can see the Jackets going with Korpisalo... This season he had a better win/loss record, GAA and SV%...
Korpisalo
Bobrovsky
and Korpisalo is way cheaper for another season with a cap hit of $742,4K compared to Bobrovsky with 3 more seasons and a cap hit of $7.425 Mil...
Bobrovsky just had a good showing at the World Championship with some great stats to show for it...
Bobrovsky is not at the top of my list of goalies I would like to see as a Flame, but depending on who is available and at what cost, I could see Treliving making a trade if he could unload enough salary going back the other way, and Columbus might be a prime candidate for that kind of trade if they decide to go with Korpisalo...
He is only 27, and as we all know won the Vezina 3 years ago... There is no question that he would be a significant upgrade in net for the Flames...
Just throwing his name into the hat as a potential candidate if he is put on the block and the Jackets were willing to take the right player(s) and salary back in trade (we all know who they are) and it would have to be a significant amount of dollars going back to Columbus...
Good call. I was pretty big on Bob & POed when stupid Homer traded him.
I just don't see the BJs handing the reins to Korpisalo just yet as the only experienced pro goalie on the team is McElhinny. Korpisalo has 31 NHL games which doesn't speak of being ready . That would put Columbus in the position of needing to sign a goalie for 2-3 years. So they end up with Stajan, a different (maybe lesser goalie) & a small cap saving they don't need to rely on.
I'd like to get Bob in a Flames jersey but need to play Devil's Advocate.
Goaltending
in Flames Talk
Posted
No!
Bishop is the best of the goalies who might be available but the market is minimal @ best. Stevie Y isn't in the driver's seat on a trade anymore than Rutherford is in Pitts with MAF. Let BT offer something & see if others offer higher. Unlikely because there aren't many teams actively searching for goalies that carry a big paycheck, have an injury history & are on a team in a tough spot.
TB has the option of trading him now or getting nothing if he goes UFA. Teams don't buy big money starters @ the TDL so they keep him, let him walk & hope to re-sign him after the expansion draft or trade him this summer.
Keeping him ties up the money they need to re-up Stamkos or Killorn while Palat, Drouin, Hedman & Vasivskiy (& others) are due big raises next year. They have a lot of $s coming off the payroll after this season but that includes those pending RFAs, Stamkos gone this summer & Bishop the next.