cross16

Well said. Even recently despite a new coach, trade request rumors, he just put his head down and tried to do his job. It totally sucks it didn't work because I really appreciate the player. Going to a great spot though, i think Quenville will be good for his game and I hope he continues to carve out an NHL role for himself.

Here is the full article if you want context. I don't see anything alarming in it and he actually stops short of calling it a good team. At the same time I think we are fooling ourselves a little if we think there is going to be a tear down rebuild coming. For the last 20 years this franchise has seemed to operate under the premise that they need to be striving to win the cup every year and you don't win the cup unless you are in the playoffs. I'd be pretty surprised to see that philosophy change suddenly. https://www.tsn.ca/calgary-flames-brad-treliving-after-underperforming-this-season-we-all-have-to-own-it-1.1619924

it’s also too bad we continue to harp on the negative side of the what if Fox had signed and never look at the positive that it was another steal by the Flames scouting staff. as you say all franchises have what if’s but not many have the mid to late round value picks the flames have had recently. Too bad we don’t talk about that more.

i agree. It’s still a talented top 10 I just don’t see a franchise player or game changer at any level. Maybe Owen Power if he puts it all together but I can also make a case Power is Griffen Reinhart too. this reminds me of the 2012 draft. Talent at the top but there won’t be a consensus and the best player in the draft may not be taken in the top 5 or 6. There were teams that still walked away from that draft happy, as there always is. I like Beniers too, he’s my favorite player in the class so far but my research is limited. I don’t see a number 1 center but a really good player. Reminds me of RNH.

For context, the 2020 draft was considered very strong so while that sounds harsh it shouldn’t be. 2020 was an outlier. I think the 2021 draft has some really good players, im just not seeing the upside you’d ideally like to see at the top of a draft.

If this roster is so poorly constructed why did Sutter take the job?

If that’s sutter’s attitude, which I 100% disagree with, then I think Valimaki should for sure go to the AHL. Far better to have him play than sit. From top to bottom this organization is a real mess right now. I’m getting pretty worried there are some very, very dark years coming.

it wasn’t just Johnny, it was many players, but I do believe he is a part of the reason Hartley was let go. im not a believer Johnny is part of the problem but I am pretty convinced he’s not part of the solution either. I get the reluctance to trade him but I’ve personally never really seen a player all in to do what it takes to win. not sure I’d go as far to say he doesn’t listen to coaches though and you’ve seen him change up his game under different coaches.

it’s a misleading tweet. The trend in Wards last few games were on the same pace too. but Ward was never the only problem and Sutter was a bad fit for this roster. That’s how I see it.

Unless the Flames are planning on moving multiple pieces out at the deadline I don’t think claiming anyone on waivers makes sense. They don’t really anyone in the bottom of their lineup and they already have enough dead weight they are giving opportunities too.

why is it we never take a look at the player? If the flames failed with Baertschi why did all the same problems follow him to the Canucks? We heard the same work ethic, attention to detail and entitled attitude remakes there that we did here. we are talking about the best of the best of a professional league and only a special few can make careers out of it so just by sheer numbers most players are going to “fail” their development. Don’t think it always points to a problem with the organization. under Treliving I think the flames have been very good in this area. Bennett is really the only one I see a problem with.

without a doubt. Which is a big reason why they haven’t had a number one center in over 25 years.

The only missed opportunity the flames have via the draft is 2013. A few more loses and they could have Mackinnon or Barkov and no question in my mind the conversation is different today. in all other years I truly believe they got the player they wanted regardless of draft position and they were taking Bennett and Tkachuk even if they were higher in the draft. Moving up in the draft via the lottery is not always critical nor always a game changer. This year is one of those years imo. You want to be in the top 10 at minimum and yes higher is better but I think your going to see variations in lists among the top 10. This year is not the year to necessarily demand a top pick, that’s coming over the next 2 drafts.

I think the discussion really has to be had of sending Dube and Valimaki down to the AHL. It's not warranted by their play, at least it isn't for me, but with how things are going around here I don't think i'd want them around. Get them in a better environment, give them a few things to work on and let them have some fun.

Stockton could sure use him. Their D has struggled since Petrovic got put on the taxi squad.

Flames have signed their 2nd round pick from last year to his entry level deal, which means he'll be turning pro. Placed this year in the NCAA and represented Russia at the World Juniors. A bit surprised by this, but given he's played the last 2 years in the NCAA I'm sure they wanted to avoid the temptation of pulling him closer to UFA status.

I think it's very fair to question why the Flames were not higher on Brayden Point in the draft, I've asked the same thing. However, I also don't think it's fair to put it on Treliving because 2014 draft was a Burke draft. I've heard him say he told the scouts before that draft he wanted to find a Tom Wilson, and he also said he wanted them taking goalies in the first 2 rounds because that's where you get good goalies. An incoming GM almost never has influence on their first draft because once they get there the work is already 80% done. If you look at Point in his draft year he was a template for the type of player Treliving and the Flames have started to target in later rounds. Point was small and not a great skater but he was skilled, competitive and high character. You can write that exact scouting report for a good third of the players the Flames have drafted under Treliving. There has been a pretty big shift on the Flames drafting under Treliving then previous regimes. Pro scouting is a concern I share as well and I think an area the Flames could do better. I think they could leverage analytics more and do a better job of finding guys who want to play their way but I also don't think it's as bad as it's made out to be. The Lazar and Elliott trades are the 2 big ones for me. In the case of Lazar I really question why the scouts who watched him thought he could make the impact to justify a 2nd rounder and I think there could have been more analysis done around Elliott. Brouwer's another name you could throw in there that I think more analysis could have swayed that decision. But at the end of the days these still come down to the fundamental question of what is mandate that this club operates under. I have questions about those moves but at the same time the rationale for a GM doing them is understandable if the parameters of the club are that we must compete every year.

I'm not sweating it, I just don't like it because I hate the likely rationale behind it (idea that you win so you can't change the lineup). Sending a message for a game is fine but 2 games when I would argue a 3rd of the lineup should be in the same position as Dube/Valimaki is what I don't like. You are not going to scratch a Gaudreau/Monahan etc, I get that. But when I see Ritchie get all this ice time with Gaudreau/Monahan with no result, Nesterov in there with limited results, refusal to split up Gaudreau/Monahan or gio/Andersson despite poor results I think criticism is fair game. I'm not bent out of shape about it, I just don't like it and I think it's fair to question it.

I really dislike this mentality of we won so we can't change the lineup idea. Sure if you played really well I would be more understanding but they won because Broissoit was bad not because they played at a high level. So putting out an inferior roster based on some weak mythology doesn't make sense to me and I hate it. Especially when it involves young players who should be part of the long term here. That's the part that gets me frustrated. On the lines, let's be honest it's throwing crap on a wall and seeing what sticks. That isn't a problem or necessarily a bad way to find line combos (as long as it doesn't become a pattern) but the combinations are a little weird given some of the underlying results and some of what hasn't been done in the past.

A whole lot of poor decisions spread throughout that lineup. Makes little sense to me. Don't really get why they are willing to elevate Leivo to that spot but seem to refuse to put him with Gaudreau-Monahan where you know he's actually had some success? And you when you have the opportunity to sit your promising young dman in favor of a journeyman who cant skate you just have to do it. Very bizarre stuff.

It's always interesting to me to see why players fall. I think in many cases when players that are perceived top prospects end up falling it can be due to over analysis. Guys like Willie Nylander, Couturier, Cam Fowler, and Jakob Chychrun I thought wound up sliding because of over scouting and just too much critique of their games versus other prospects who were coming up at the time. I'd argue all 4 of those guys proved people wrong, so there is a balancing act here. But i'm with sak on this, Raty has more of an Angelo Esposito vibe to me too. Skilled player that shot up draft boards but there struggling once the competition gets better. From what i've read and seen so far it seems Raty doesn't like to play in traffic and keeps to a perimeter game. I'm not confident that can be coached out of someone so while I plan to watch a little more, he's not someone I would have interest in at this time. For me, it's not an overly exciting draft year unless you are in the top 10. All drafts will have good players but this one feels like a steep drop off into the teens/20s compared to over years. At this point in the season i'm more in the camp that a top 10 pick would be a nicer outcome to what the likely alternative is.

i think it’s that the organization always wants to win now but that keeps that them from being an asset rich organization. Only currency you are left with is picks.

I am of the opinion that the goals and mandate of the organization are ones that incentivize short term thinking. For me the biggest beef with Treliving is the trading of so many quality picks. While this is a fair critique I’m skeptical that was his decision alone and him not just simply following the mandate.

Whether or not Treliving should be fired is a very fair question and I think both sides have sound arguments. I still lean towards No but there are good reasons for the yes side too namely the results as there surely has been GMs in the league fired for less. I don’t personally believe they will fire him this off-season but I was wrong on Ward so what do I really know 🤷‍♂️ However, this is no longer the question for me. For me it’s time for a far more in depth analysis on the franchise and it’s operations. The Flames have basically followed the same model now for over 20 years and where has it gotten them? Sure fire Treliving but does anyone really believe that’s going to change anything? It’s time to go deeper and imo I think the Flames need to revisit the President of Hockey Ops model. I think they need someone who can really challenge and push the organization, keep the owners at bay and work to set realistic goals and time frames. Even when the flames used this model they really didn’t leverage it to the way they should. They brought in someone who fit with existing beliefs and honestly im of the opinion they hired Burke more as a consultant than anything. it be a bit controversial but I’d like to see them adopt this and hire Mike Gillis as the president and then let him set up the organization. You can criticize his GM record but where I think he got it right is he leveraged aspect of sport science, analytics and really pooled as many resources as he could to make his teams and organizations better and for the most part it worked. I think that’s what I’d like to see the flames do, go with more of a forward thinker and have a role that can constantly evaluate how your org is running and makes changes. It’s way too difficult of a job for a GM to do this. I doubt this is going to happen due to budget reasons but I think it’s past due for the flames to really evaluate how their organization functions. If they did I don’t know how you can come to the conclusion it’s functioning at the highest level, so stop just repeating the same process over and over again.

pretty funny story in here about how LaBarbera had to drive wolf back to Calgary after the US beat them in the world juniors. Wore his gold medal the entire ride.