So What's The Alternative?

[JTech780]

I think Calgary has some young guys that can replace the UFA's with the exception of Tanguay.

Glencross can be replaced by Nemisz

Morrison doesn't really need to be replaced with Jokinen, Stajan, Backland and Moss all playing Center.

Conroy same as Morrison

Staios can be replaced by Mikkelson

Babchuk can be replaced by Brodie

Pardy can be replaced by Pelech

If the return is right for Iginla or Regher I think you pull the trigger but like Cross said you don't make a trade just for the sake of making a trade.

Also I think it would be smart to keep Kipper, I also think he is almost immovable. But as Calgary gets younger I think it would help some of the younger players' confidence knowing that there is an elite level goalie backing them up.

With letting the UFA's go and having their places filled with younger players will give Calgary a better idea of what they have going forward in a rebuilding process. And this can be done without giving up the core players if the right trades are not available.

[tachaudh]

...

Also I think it would be smart to keep Kipper, I also think he is almost immovable. But as Calgary gets younger I think it would help some of the younger players' confidence knowing that there is an elite level goalie backing them up.

With letting the UFA's go and having their places filled with younger players will give Calgary a better idea of what they have going forward in a rebuilding process. And this can be done without giving up the core players if the right trades are not available.

The problem that comes to my mind is if you trade Iggy and Reggie, would Kipper even want to stay here? Making such moves obviously indicates that you are at least in a semi-rebuild mode, which means there will be some lean times. Is Kipper willing to play in front of a young team who he's going to have to likely try and bail out beyond reason almost every night?

When you're 25-26, you think differently about that situation. When you're in your mid thirties, well then different factors are at play.

[JTech780]

The problem that comes to my mind is if you trade Iggy and Reggie, would Kipper even want to stay here? Making such moves obviously indicates that you are at least in a semi-rebuild mode, which means there will be some lean times. Is Kipper willing to play in front of a young team who he's going to have to likely try and bail out beyond reason almost every night?

When you're 25-26, you think differently about that situation. When you're in your mid thirties, well then different factors are at play.

I don't think he would have a choice, with his salary and age he is near untradeable. If he wanted out he would have to sit out but Kipper wouldn't do that.

[Bleeds_Flaming_C]

I have been on the rebuild side for 3 yrs if you include this year. We have tried numerous coaches and have traded away more than 80% of our players over the last few yrs trying to spark things. If it has not happened yet then it won't. Peolple can fool themselves into thinking they are true fans for being blindly optimistic but the reality is there is a problem with the team or we would not be having these discussions.

It also painly obvious that we are nowhere close to being a contender nor will we with this group no matter what we try. This is why I believe Rebuilding is the only way to go now. Our talented guys are only getting older and slower.

I for 1 am getting tired of being called troll because I am not a sheep following the pack. Like what I say or don't but in the end I say what I feel and clearly others are starting to see what I have been saying for 3 yrs now.

[cross16]

I don't think he would have a choice, with his salary and age he is near untradeable. If he wanted out he would have to sit out but Kipper wouldn't do that.

I dont' agree Kipper is unmovalbe. Kipper would be the last piece for a lot fo teams in the league. Philly, Tampa Bay, San Jose, maybe Chicago, maybe Washington. I would agree that I don't think the value is going to be as high as most fans woudl think becuase I don't think a team is going to give you their best assets for any goaltender, but I don't think he is untradeable by any means.

[bigchief]

I have been on the rebuild side for 3 yrs if you include this year. We have tried numerous coaches and have traded away more than 80% of our players over the last few yrs trying to spark things. If it has not happened yet then it won't. Peolple can fool themselves into thinking they are true fans for being blindly optimistic but the reality is there is a problem with the team or we would not be having these discussions.

It also painly obvious that we are nowhere close to being a contender nor will we with this group no matter what we try. This is why I believe Rebuilding is the only way to go now. Our talented guys are only getting older and slower.

I for 1 am getting tired of being called troll because I am not a sheep following the pack. Like what I say or don't but in the end I say what I feel and clearly others are starting to see what I have been saying for 3 yrs now.

Three years ago we had a pretty good team, just a little tweaking away from top contender status. A complete rebuild three years ago would have been a silly idea. If you are counting this year then you are talking about 08/09? Hindsight is 20/20 and we can clearly look back at some mistakes the team made like paying too much for JBo, letting the Squid get away, aquiring Jokinen as our saviour centerman etc. but that team was not ready for a rebuild, it was ready for a few moves and a run to the cup. Just because things didn't turn out the way we all wanted doesn't change the fact that we were on the verge a few years ago.

[Bleeds_Flaming_C]

Three years ago we had a pretty good team, just a little tweaking away from top contender status. A complete rebuild three years ago would have been a silly idea. If you are counting this year then you are talking about 08/09? Hindsight is 20/20 and we can clearly look back at some mistakes the team made like paying too much for JBo, letting the Squid get away, aquiring Jokinen as our saviour centerman etc. but that team was not ready for a rebuild, it was ready for a few moves and a run to the cup. Just because things didn't turn out the way we all wanted doesn't change the fact that we were on the verge a few years ago.

I would agree they were not bad however it was around that time players were not following the coaches lead which is why we started a downward spiral in the replacment of coaches. When I said that back then I figured we had an issue with our players. I started to think about rebuilding then Because there had already be player tweaking before the coaching change and nothing change before or after. We all know what happened last year and this year is even worse. When do we accept that something has to be done to rectify this. I don't want to wait until we have value left in our top guys which is why I stated it 3yrs ago. I could have miss-read the team back then yet today that doesn't seem likely.

[senor_incendiarse]

I would agree they were not bad however it was around that time players were not following the coaches lead which is why we started a downward spiral in the replacment of coaches. When I said that back then I figured we had an issue with our players. I started to think about rebuilding then Because there had already be player tweaking before the coaching change and nothing change before or after. We all know what happened last year and this year is even worse. When do we accept that something has to be done to rectify this. I don't want to wait until we have value left in our top guys which is why I stated it 3yrs ago. I could have miss-read the team back then yet today that doesn't seem likely.

Rebuilding 3 years ago would have been ridiculous. Had they moved their core guys then it would have given the team a terrible image, would anybody want to commit to a team that decides to blow up despite being a playoff team, how would the young guys brought up want to be loyal when they see a team that wasn't loyal to the old core.

The problem I've found with the team the last few years is the lack of consistency with the on-ice product and the coaching, '06 division champs, lacked scoring, '07 new coach plus Tanguay, '08 another new coach plus 3 new defensemen who were completely different from the ones they replaced, '09 same coach for a change, but different looking top 6 forwards, '10 new coaching staff. Since the first season post-lockout Flames have had 4 coaches and only 4 players remain during that time, Detroit has had 1 coach and 9 players remain with that team.

[Bleeds_Flaming_C]

senor_incendiarse - Your post has not come up yet so I thought I woud do it this way.

You almost prove my point with that second paragraph. All those changes and here we sit. How can everything except our core guys change and we still have the same issues? It stands to reason that it is them that are a big part of the problems. Those issues have been here since the 08/09 season. 3 yrs later and we are still talking about it with our top guys getting older. I believed back then the core was the issue along with the system but now after so many coaches and players and systems it only really leaves the core group. Which means a rebuild to right the ship. If it was done back then we would almost be back as a contending team instead of looking at 8-9 yrs of misery unless of course you still believe this group can be saved for some reason.

[senor_incendiarse]

senor_incendiarse - Your post has not come up yet so I thought I woud do it this way.

You almost prove my point with that second paragraph. All those changes and here we sit. How can everything except our core guys change and we still have the same issues? It stands to reason that it is them that are a big part of the problems. Those issues have been here since the 08/09 season. 3 yrs later and we are still talking about it with our top guys getting older. I believed back then the core was the issue along with the system but now after so many coaches and players and systems it only really leaves the core group. Which means a rebuild to right the ship. If it was done back then we would almost be back as a contending team instead of looking at 8-9 yrs of misery unless of course you still believe this group can be saved for some reason.

Very difficult to support that argument superstar trades these days have been pretty one sided, with the team ridding of the star getting ripped, even rental trades like the Hossa and Smyth trades have had no benefit for the Oilers or Thrashers yet and don't appear they will. If we traded our core guys 3 years ago and got poor return that sets them back another few years, say we did it sucked and got Stamkos, I don't think he'd be lighting it up here without a true playmaker like St. Louis. With all the rebuild talk people gotta remember its the players drafted and develop that will turn the ship relying on trade return may lead to disappointment.

[Semi]

Its interesting My heart says stay the course, and my brain says make changes.

I don't know Which is right or wrong. Arguments can be made for both.

If my memory serves me right we traded KENT NEILSON for JOE NIEUWENDYK, then JOE NIEUWENDYK for JAROME IGINLA. Does anyone miss Kent Neilson? Can Sutter find this kind of talent for Iggy? If not, lets keep Iginla. Sometimes there is value in loyalty.

[Bleeds_Flaming_C]

Very difficult to support that argument superstar trades these days have been pretty one sided, with the team ridding of the star getting ripped, even rental trades like the Hossa and Smyth trades have had no benefit for the Oilers or Thrashers yet and don't appear they will. If we traded our core guys 3 years ago and got poor return that sets them back another few years, say we did it sucked and got Stamkos, I don't think he'd be lighting it up here without a true playmaker like St. Louis. With all the rebuild talk people gotta remember its the players drafted and develop that will turn the ship relying on trade return may lead to disappointment.

I agree with the begging part but not the end. I did not say or imply to rebuild sorley on player for player. I also don't think we have the skill in the minors either so it has to be a combination of players, picks and/or young talent like the Iggy for Neuwindyk trade.

[jjgaIIow]

In my opinion, if it's broken then fix it. I don't buy this "stay the course" philosophy because first of all, "what course are we even on?" The track record of the current management group isn't nearly good enough to warrant any credibility on it's plan to stay the course, whatever the course even is in the first place. From what can be seen, these guys have set sail for fail and are steering us right into the eye of the storm.

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