Oilers

[ConnorFutureGM]

Hmm Flames have been ahead of the Oilers every year since '04 knew it would end some time.  Oh well still haven't gone a 3 year span of being dead last or 2nd last.

 

Just wait

[Crzydrvr]

Just wait

 

As bad as the Flames are, I don't see us dead last or 2nd-last 3 years running. That would mean good things happen to the Flames (via the draft) and of course the hockey gods can't have that happening. We'd probably end up bottom-5 3 years running easily though.

 

Just not bottom-2. We'd just win enough games to sneak out of that area.

[ConnorFutureGM]

As bad as the Flames are, I don't see us dead last or 2nd-last 3 years running. That would mean good things happen to the Flames (via the draft) and of course the hockey gods can't have that happening. We'd probably end up bottom-5 3 years running easily though.

 

Just not bottom-2. We'd just win enough games to sneak out of that area.

 

I don't man. Feaster is tearing your roster apart. I don't think it's his fault though, per say. I think a lot of players went and stayed in Calgary with the idea of the team being competitive on an annual basis and now that the bottom fell out, players are wanting to jump ship. All of the NTC/NMC are really hurting the returns on these players but Feaster needs to play harder ball.

 

Right now, the Flames have no A level prospects and the Flames aren't known for their scouting and or developing. If Feaster stays at the helm much longer I think the Flames might have a longer, more painful rebuild than the Oilers.

[Crzydrvr]

I don't man. Feaster is tearing your roster apart. I don't think it's his fault though, per say. I think a lot of players went and stayed in Calgary with the idea of the team being competitive on an annual basis and now that the bottom fell out, players are wanting to jump ship. All of the NTC/NMC are really hurting the returns on these players but Feaster needs to play harder ball.

 

Right now, the Flames have no A level prospects and the Flames aren't known for their scouting and or developing. If Feaster stays at the helm much longer I think the Flames might have a longer, more painful rebuild than the Oilers.

 

 

Ahem.

 

Don't really want to get into the whole Flames-Oilers argument again since it'd just be a rehashing of old arguments, but you seem to be leaving out quite a few points. We've got guys who will step into the lineup soon enough, and we've got guys who will be support players on good teams. We also have a luxury that the Oil never did, namely 3 1st round picks in 1 year. We do it right, we can come out quicker than most people expect us to.

 

Whether or not we actually do it is still up in the air (waiting on management) but it's a little premature to say we're gonna suck longer and harder than the Oilers did. Our rosters are comparable (the 2009-10 Oilers vs the 2012-13 Flames minus Iginla/Bouwmeester) and in a strange twist of fate we've got a kid who was drafted 2 years before our tankjob who happens to be a key piece of our future and lit up the WHL.

[ConnorFutureGM]

 

Ahem.

 

Don't really want to get into the whole Flames-Oilers argument again since it'd just be a rehashing of old arguments, but you seem to be leaving out quite a few points. We've got guys who will step into the lineup soon enough, and we've got guys who will be support players on good teams. We also have a luxury that the Oil never did, namely 3 1st round picks in 1 year. We do it right, we can come out quicker than most people expect us to.

 

Whether or not we actually do it is still up in the air (waiting on management) but it's a little premature to say we're gonna suck longer and harder than the Oilers did. Our rosters are comparable (the 2009-10 Oilers vs the 2012-13 Flames minus Iginla/Bouwmeester) and in a strange twist of fate we've got a kid who was drafted 2 years before our tankjob who happens to be a key piece of our future and lit up the WHL.

 

I forgot about Barschi. He is A level but the rest like Gadreau, Reinhart, Jankowski are not. Oilers had three 1st rounders in 07, only one turned out.

 

Oilers drafted Gagner in 2007, Eberle 2008 and Paajarvi in 2009. Eberle was a star a lot sooner but Paajarvi and Gagner took years to find their stride. The most important factor is the development system, something that is the Flames' weakness. Look at the drafting record in Tampa. It is awful in the time Feaster was there. They drafted not one certified NHLer in between Lecavalier and Stamkos.

[DL44]

I forgot about Barschi. He is A level but the rest like Gadreau, Reinhart, Jankowski are not. Oilers had three 1st rounders in 07, only one turned out.

 

Oilers drafted Gagner in 2007, Eberle 2008 and Paajarvi in 2009. Eberle was a star a lot soon but Paajarvi and Gagner took years to find their stride. The most important factor is the development system, something that is the Flames' weakness.

 

 

The reason i see a Flames turnaround to be a very quick one...

 

Ownership and Feaster HATE basement dwelling... they are philosophically against it. 

they will be pushing and pushing and pushing to avoid it... see: O'Reilly.

 

Cap space  and willing to be cap team....  I think Feaster will be moving in on every tier II UFA to solidify.. because they have the flexibility to overpay if they need to.

Calgary doesn't have as much difficulty attracting UFA's as the more northern team does..

 

And this is yet to be determined... I think Feaster will be more willing to move a high pick or two for a high level roster player at the draft this yr... if they get that 4th 1st rounder in a Kipper deal... it's on i think at the draft.  It will be an exciting one for Flames fan.. already will be actually.

[crankshaft]

The reason i see a Flames turnaround to be a very quick one...

 

Ownership and Feaster HATE basement dwelling... they are philosophically against it. 

they will be pushing and pushing and pushing to avoid it... see: O'Reilly.

 

Cap space  and willing to be cap team....  I think Feaster will be moving in on every tier II UFA to solidify.. because they have the flexibility to overpay if they need to.

Calgary doesn't have as much difficulty attracting UFA's as the more northern team does..

 

And this is yet to be determined... I think Feaster will be more willing to move a high pick or two for a high level roster player at the draft this yr... if they get that 4th 1st rounder in a Kipper deal... it's on i think at the draft.  It will be an exciting one for Flames fan.. already will be actually.

 

You have to be smoking something strong if you think Kipper is going to bring a 1st round pick.

[Crzydrvr]

Heyyyy....I remember you! You gave us this classic:

Iggy a legend?...the Kool-aid in Calgary must be mighty powerful. A better than average player, yes, but far, far, far from a legend.

On the other hand the Flames fans need something to be positive about.

Iggy now 34 is untradeable for younger talent, a big mistake by Flames management. Too bad he is going to end up as another Mats Sundin.

 

I'll give you credit, this made me laugh hard enough that I still remember it years later. Thanks! My overarching anger at Flames management for creating a situation where Iggy had to leave notwithstanding, I also have a long memory when it comes to transgressions against my captain.

 

*****

 

I do agree on Kipper though, with this market I don't see us getting anywhere near an overwhelming return for him.

[ConnorFutureGM]

The reason i see a Flames turnaround to be a very quick one...

 

Ownership and Feaster HATE basement dwelling... they are philosophically against it. 

they will be pushing and pushing and pushing to avoid it... see: O'Reilly.

 

Cap space  and willing to be cap team....  I think Feaster will be moving in on every tier II UFA to solidify.. because they have the flexibility to overpay if they need to.

Calgary doesn't have as much difficulty attracting UFA's as the more northern team does..

 

And this is yet to be determined... I think Feaster will be more willing to move a high pick or two for a high level roster player at the draft this yr... if they get that 4th 1st rounder in a Kipper deal... it's on i think at the draft.  It will be an exciting one for Flames fan.. already will be actually.

 

I agree with how you state the Flames philosophy and if what you said is true, they will even have a more painful decade ahead than I first stated.

 

Flames already went out this season and overpaid for B grade UFAs. How did that turn out? Teams can't build through free agency anymore and teams won't trade their young players for picks; teams trade their older players for picks and UFAs are either in their prime, nearing the end or already passing it.

 

Lets say the Flames draft Mckinnon, go out and sign some decent UFAs by overpaying and trade some of their picks for players in the 25 to 30 range, what do the Flames look like? IMO they look like they did 3 years ago when they first started missing the playoffs. That my friend is a never ending "re-tool".

[DL44]

Perhaps...

3 first rounders is the thing here.

They get their prime high 1st rounder... a top 4 or higher pick that likely plays next yr.

They get a another prime prospect deeper in the draft.

They trade the other for roster help... and at the draft we know 1st rounders can bring in a significant roster player.

 

Cap space - Hudler, Wideman turned out to be solid pickups... the rest of the roster faltered.  They are more than capable of making a run at Riberio at center.. or as well as a couple tier 2's of the following -  Roy, Horton, Raymond, Bouchard, MacArthr, Clowe, Filppula, Latendresse, Bozak, Leopold, Hainsey....

Clarkson i see as a jewel addition.. he should have 30 teams kicking tires on him.

 

They have the space to do it, and the GM and ownership have a track record of being able to attract.. Unlike the Oilers during their last 2-3 yrs of ineptitude.  I don't ever see Feaster coming out and preaching patience to the fans,,, he is clearly on a mandate to make strides...

 

and no.. they don't have to sacrifice the future to do so... 

 

piece by piece... It's a foreign concept for oiler fan, but it is possible.  Unlike what Tambelowe would like you to believe, it really doesn't take 5 yrs to become relevant...  the flames have already been crap for 3+ yrs...

3 1st rounders is their ticket back into the playoff picture.

Either way... we'll see come the draft.. and then free agency. 

Come July 1st it will be interesting to see who Tamblowe signs and who Feaster can sign..

 

 

The D comparison will interesting one going forward..

Calgary will have Wideman, Gio, Brodie and Sarich as their base...

Edm will have JSchultz, Smid, NSchlutz and Petry as theirs going into the offseason.

Lots of work to do there for both teams.. one more than the other.

[ConnorFutureGM]

Perhaps...

3 first rounders is the thing here.

They get their prime high 1st rounder... a top 4 or higher pick that likely plays next yr.

They get a another prime prospect deeper in the draft.

They trade the other for roster help... and at the draft we know 1st rounders can bring in a significant roster player.

 

Cap space - Hudler, Wideman turned out to be solid pickups... the rest of the roster faltered.  They are more than capable of making a run at Riberio at center.. or as well as a couple tier 2's of the following -  Roy, Horton, Raymond, Bouchard, MacArthr, Clowe, Filppula, Latendresse, Bozak, Leopold, Hainsey....

Clarkson i see as a jewel addition.. he should have 30 teams kicking tires on him.

 

They have the space to do it, and the GM and ownership have a track record of being able to attract.. Unlike the Oilers during their last 2-3 yrs of ineptitude.  I don't ever see Feaster coming out and preaching patience to the fans,,, he is clearly on a mandate to make strides...

 

and no.. they don't have to sacrifice the future to do so... 

 

piece by piece... It's a foreign concept for oiler fan, but it is possible.  Unlike what Tambelowe would like you to believe, it really doesn't take 5 yrs to become relevant...  the flames have already been crap for 3+ yrs...

3 1st rounders is their ticket back into the playoff picture.

Either way... we'll see come the draft.. and then free agency. 

Come July 1st it will be interesting to see who Tamblowe signs and who Feaster can sign..

 

 

The D comparison will interesting one going forward..

Calgary will have Wideman, Gio, Brodie and Sarich as their base...

Edm will have JSchultz, Smid, NSchlutz and Petry as theirs going into the offseason.

Lots of work to do there for both teams.. one more than the other.

 

These "solid pick ups" did nothing for the Flames in terms of success.

 

The sales pitch Calgary sold to free agents was competing for the playoffs every year. Now players like Iginla and Bouwmeester are jumping ship. They obviously asked for trades or else they could have merely not waived their NTC/NMCs. The only way Calgary will be able to attract players is overpaying them.

 

Oilers are the far more attractive team going forward if a player wants to win. You say having patience as a negative but a team/GM who doesn't is just going to end up nowhere fast.

 

PS Canucks are trending downward already.

[DL44]

These "solid pick ups" did nothing for the Flames in terms of success.

piece by piece.

They are good pieces going forward.

 

 

The sales pitch Calgary sold to free agents was competing for the playoffs every year. Now players like Iginla and Bouwmeester are jumping ship. They obviously asked for trades or else they could have merely not waived their NTC/NMCs. The only way Calgary will be able to attract players is overpaying them.

We'll see.

Jokinen, Hudler, Glencross, Sarich suggest otherwise...

 

 

Oilers are the far more attractive team going forward if a player wants to win. You say having patience as a negative but a team/GM who doesn't is just going to end up nowhere fast.

Maybe.  Or maybe their historyof  players not wanting to go to/stay in Edm when better lifestyles/situations elsewhere appear greater continues till the Oilers at least prove they really are on the verge...

 

 

PS Canucks are trending downward already

Don't how this is relevant to the discussion..   but it is not a groundbreaking revelation considering the twins are 32.

Is this a 'oh crap, i've lost the logical portion of this conversation so let's change the subject and take a pot shot at the canucks' type thing?

Transparent as hell connor.

[ConnorFutureGM]

piece by piece.

They are good pieces going forward.

 

Good pieces for who? The Flames couldn't even trade those player now if they wanted too.

 

We'll see.

Jokinen, Hudler, Glencross, Sarich suggest otherwise...

 

Did you not get the idea "going forward"? Hudler and Sarich were overpaid anyways. Jokinen left.

 

Maybe.  Or maybe their historyof  players not wanting to go to/stay in Edm when better lifestyles/situations elsewhere appear greater continues till the Oilers at least prove they really are on the verge...

 

Schultz seems to love it Edmonton. Didn't he have 29 other teams knocking on his door?

 

Don't how this is relevant to the discussion..   but it is not a groundbreaking revelation considering the twins are 32.

Is this a 'oh crap, i've lost the logical portion of this conversation so let's change the subject and take a pot shot at the canucks' type thing?

Transparent as hell connor.

 

No. You're close minded and pandering the crowd. You also took little jabs at Edmonton so I'll gladly exchange.

[DirtyDeeds]

LOL....Jerred Smithson the Gamechanger.... Yep your GM has the pulse of your team. Just what your team needed age and size on your bottom 6. and trading draft picks to get him..lmaorofl

[ConnorFutureGM]

LOL....Jerred Smithson the Gamechanger.... Yep your GM has the pulse of your team. Just what your team needed age and size on your bottom 6. and trading draft picks to get him..lmaorofl

Obviously you don't know the pulse of the Oilers.

 

There were two pending UFAs who are great locker room guys. They play supporting roles to logic would suggest to trade them. Management didn't showing confidence in the current group and adding a small yet helpful piece to show support.

 

The Oilers don't have to throw their future away to try to stay competitive, unlike Calgary. 

[Carty]

The Oilers don't have to throw their future away to try to stay competitive

 

No...   They did that years ago...   More than once...   They are just finally starting to recover from the last time now...

[DirtyDeeds]

Obviously you don't know the pulse of the Oilers.

 

There were two pending UFAs who are great locker room guys. They play supporting roles to logic would suggest to trade them. Management didn't showing confidence in the current group and adding a small yet helpful piece to show support.

 

The Oilers don't have to throw their future away to try to stay competitive, unlike Calgary. 

Huh??? the pulse of the Oilers is thinking that a 34 year old UFA is a better pickup than the 2x 28 year old UFA's all coming due end of the season??  Right Conner your thinking ranks right up there with the best of Comedy.

 

I stick to my stand that this is a nothing move that does not address any of your clubs needs. Wow you can now rotate in an older no talent player in and out of your 4th line. Great depth move there Conner......

[s4xon]

Right now, the Flames have no A level prospects and the Flames aren't known for their scouting and or developing. If Feaster stays at the helm much longer I think the Flames might have a longer, more painful rebuild than the Oilers.

 

Why are you always the guy that throws a statement way out there before even thinking?  Is it a condition or is it something that will just go away after time? Try arguing on facts, not feelings.  You might actually get somewhere someday.

 

Scouting and developing has taken huge strides since Sutter stepped out and Feaster stepped in, like it or not.  Weisbrod has a knack for finding quality players at all levels in the draft. In 2 years of development, here's looking at how things have gone.

 

The Flames 2011 Draft:

 

Sven Baertschi - 1st round - Signed to an ELC, NHL ready.

Markus Granlund - 2nd round - in negotiations, may or may not stay overseas

Tyler Wotherspoon- 2nd round - Signed to an ELC

Johnny Gaudreau - 4th round - in negotiations, may return to NCAA or sign with the Flames (if signs with Flames, will most likely play in the NHL)

Laurent Brossoit - 6th round - Signed to an ELC

 

Looks like pretty solid development to me. 

 

If you don't think Gaudreau is an A level prospect, dream on.  Round of drafting doesn't matter.  Non A level prospects don't:

 

-win the 2013 WJC,

-lead the whole WJC in goals in the year they won

-win the NCAA championship with 2nd in scoring on the team in their freshman year

-lead the team in scoring in the 2nd year

-finish 4th in scoring in the whole NCAA mens hockey in their 2nd year

-finish a finalist for the Hobey Baker award, so on and so on.

 

By that logic, J Schultz isn't, nor has ever been an A level prospect/player.

[ConnorFutureGM]

Why are you always the guy that throws a statement way out there before even thinking?  Is it a condition or is it something that will just go away after time? Try arguing on facts, not feelings.  You might actually get somewhere someday.

 

Scouting and developing has taken huge strides since Sutter stepped out and Feaster stepped in, like it or not.  Weisbrod has a knack for finding quality players at all levels in the draft. In 2 years of development, here's looking at how things have gone.

 

The Flames 2011 Draft:

 

Sven Baertschi - 1st round - Signed to an ELC, NHL ready.

Markus Granlund - 2nd round - in negotiations, may or may not stay overseas

Tyler Wotherspoon- 2nd round - Signed to an ELC

Johnny Gaudreau - 4th round - in negotiations, may return to NCAA or sign with the Flames (if signs with Flames, will most likely play in the NHL)

Laurent Brossoit - 6th round - Signed to an ELC

 

Looks like pretty solid development to me. 

 

If you don't think Gaudreau is an A level prospect, dream on.  Round of drafting doesn't matter.  Non A level prospects don't:

 

-win the 2013 WJC,

-lead the whole WJC in goals in the year they won

-win the NCAA championship with 2nd in scoring on the team in their freshman year

-lead the team in scoring in the 2nd year

-finish 4th in scoring in the whole NCAA mens hockey in their 2nd year

-finish a finalist for the Hobey Baker award, so on and so on.

 

By that logic, J Schultz isn't, nor has ever been an A level prospect/player.

 

An A level prospect is worth a 1st +. Gadreau ain't worth that.

 

How many players CURRENTLY on the Flames were drafted by the Flames? Backlund, Brodie. Maybe I'm missing someone. I'm not going to look but I bet you'd be hard pressed to find another team what only has two players on their current roster drafted by that team.

 

I'd wait a bit before you start sounding the trumpet on the Flames' prospects. They're playing in different leagues and until they play in the NHL you can only speculate.

[ConnorFutureGM]

Huh??? the pulse of the Oilers is thinking that a 34 year old UFA is a better pickup than the 2x 28 year old UFA's all coming due end of the season??  Right Conner your thinking ranks right up there with the best of Comedy.

 

I stick to my stand that this is a nothing move that does not address any of your clubs needs. Wow you can now rotate in an older no talent player in and out of your 4th line. Great depth move there Conner......

 

MOD EDIT

 

Jones and Whitney are two of the most popular guys in the dressing room. Not only that but they do contribute to the team in some level. The Oilers have battled hard lately to get into the playoff mix. What kind of message would it send to the younger players ie Hall, RNH. Nuge, etc that yeah you guys are playing really hard and have a chance of making the playoffs but we're going to trade these two veteran, good guys for 2nd round picks. Yeah we could make the playoffs but we could just get picks and hopefully make it next year. Why would the team want to keep on battling if they thought management didn't believe in the current group?

 

Back to the thing I don't like. If the Oilers did trade those players you'd come on here saying some crap about how management didn't try to make the playoffs. You don't have a belief system, just a hatred for a team that's positioned far better than yours.

[s4xon]

An A level prospect is worth a 1st +. Gadreau ain't worth that.

 

How many players CURRENTLY on the Flames were drafted by the Flames? Backlund, Brodie. Maybe I'm missing someone. I'm not going to look but I bet you'd be hard pressed to find another team what only has two players on their current roster drafted by that team.

 

I'd wait a bit before you start sounding the trumpet on the Flames' prospects. They're playing in different leagues and until they play in the NHL you can only speculate.

 

Gaudreau is worth a 1st.  In fact if he were to re-enter the draft, He would go top 10 easily.  You are telling me if the SC champs or even the SC losers would roll the dice on a pick at 30 and 29, and they wouldn't trade for Gaudreau if given the chance? 

 

 

 

I smell BS.

 

Can't argue with stupid.

[ConnorFutureGM]

Gaudreau is worth a 1st.  In fact if he were to re-enter the draft, He would go top 10 easily.  You are telling me if the SC champs or even the SC losers would roll the dice on a pick at 30 and 29, and they wouldn't trade for Gaudreau if given the chance? 

 

 

 

I smell BS.

 

Can't argue with stupid.

 

Uh, no.

 

Contenders want players to help them now, not later.

[gsp393]

These "solid pick ups" did nothing for the Flames in terms of success.

 

The sales pitch Calgary sold to free agents was competing for the playoffs every year. Now players like Iginla and Bouwmeester are jumping ship. They obviously asked for trades or else they could have merely not waived their NTC/NMCs. The only way Calgary will be able to attract players is overpaying them.

 

Oilers are the far more attractive team going forward if a player wants to win. You say having patience as a negative but a team/GM who doesn't is just going to end up nowhere fast.

 

PS Canucks are trending downward already.

Hahaha, Iginla and Bouwmeester have both publicly said that feaster came to them asking if they would be open to trade and provide a list of teams. At no time was there any viable press release saying either of them wanted out. They both also commented on how sad they were to leave.

 

Good pieces for who? The Flames couldn't even trade those player now if they wanted too.

 

 

Did you not get the idea "going forward"? Hudler and Sarich were overpaid anyways. Jokinen left.

 

 

Schultz seems to love it Edmonton. Didn't he have 29 other teams knocking on his door?

 

 

No. You're close minded and pandering the crowd. You also took little jabs at Edmonton so I'll gladly exchange.

Jokinen was reported time a time again that he wanted to come back to calgary. It seemed that feaster didn't want him and thats why he is no longer here. If you want some proof look at us deadline dumping him on NYR and then him resigning with us at a fair price a few months later.

 

We consistently miss the playoffs yet continue to sign top free agents and have a high resign and loyalty rate. The fact that Iginla going to the pens over the bruins because of "player choice" will only raise the reputation of the calgary flames management and continue to make it a more desirable place to play. Before you say he made the choice because he had to waive, it would've been pretty easy for feaster to neglect mentioning that he had a satisfiable agreement with the pens to iggy.

 

I won't deny our organization has made it's share of mistakes, but people like to play here and it's unlikely someone pulls a "too cool shultz" on us. I also certainly hope we don't draft anyone with the morals and arrogance of your new pp qb.

[HallofFlame]

Uh, no.

 

Contenders want players to help them now, not later.

 

?

[s4xon]

Uh, no.

 

Contenders want players to help them now, not later.

 

LOL, Now that's a quote worth saving.