ConnorFutureGM Posted May 2, 2012 Report Share Posted May 2, 2012 Trading for Staal would be stupid for the Oilers. His offensive upside is not that high but he only has one more year on his contract and could easily bolt after that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyerfan52 Posted May 2, 2012 Report Share Posted May 2, 2012 The 1st is worth more than Staal but Staal is worth much more than Iginla. Toronto would pay big time for Staal. 1st > Staal > Krejci > Iginla If you say so. That's why you'll be a GM someday. And what can the Leafs give for J. Staal - given the Cap and all. Toronto's 5th overall? Cap problems. Phaneuf in Pitts? With that contract and Crosby and Malkin coming up? Make your Toronto trade, it isn't so simple. With Connolley / Grabo in Toronto - no way Pitts has any interest in either of those players… Make your trade and keep in mind Pitts Cap horizon and their desire to win a Cup in the near future... Since Burke traded 2 1st & a 2nd for Kessel & Jordan Staal > Kessel, Luke Schenn, Cody Franson, a 1st & 2nd is likely. Burke shoots from the hip & would try to figure out the cap later. Pens big need is on D so Schenn is a start & Franson is further help. The picks help the future. The Pens also gain whatever $s they'd have to spend to keep Jordan. I personally hate the deal (because it helps the Pengies)but Burke has said he'll trade D to shore up the top forwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsp393 Posted May 2, 2012 Report Share Posted May 2, 2012 Trading for Staal would be stupid for the Oilers. His offensive upside is not that high but he only has one more year on his contract and could easily bolt after that. all the oilers have is offensive upside. someone with a strong 2way game seems like a perfect fit to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConnorFutureGM Posted May 2, 2012 Report Share Posted May 2, 2012 all the oilers have is offensive upside. someone with a strong 2way game seems like a perfect fit to me. He's hit 50 points once. A young shut down centre is not worth a 1st overall pick. If he shows he could be a 70 point guy, then it would be different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsp393 Posted May 2, 2012 Report Share Posted May 2, 2012 He's hit 50 points once. A young shut down centre is not worth a 1st overall pick. If he shows he could be a 70 point guy, then it would be different. no doubt hes a risk, and no doubt there would have to be more then him coming back for that 1st. but i really believe if given the ice time with top line players he could really tear it up. either way i still think he would be a huge addition to the oil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConnorFutureGM Posted May 2, 2012 Report Share Posted May 2, 2012 no doubt hes a risk, and no doubt there would have to be more then him coming back for that 1st. but i really believe if given the ice time with top line players he could really tear it up. either way i still think he would be a huge addition to the oil The other big thing is his contract. He only has 1 year left then he's UFA. He could spend a year in Edmonton and then take off to play with his brothers or any other team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C_worthy Posted May 2, 2012 Report Share Posted May 2, 2012 He's hit 50 points once. A young shut down centre is not worth a 1st overall pick. If he shows he could be a 70 point guy, then it would be different. Once again you illustrate how one-diensional you are: you don't understand or value goaltending, you believe defense merely has to be adequate, and you don't appreciate the value of a defensive centerman. For you it's all about the Paajarvis and Omarks - just keep the offensive forwards coming. The Oilers are the perfect team for you to be a fan of. In fact, you are probably a simple product of the Oilers: drafting the same type of player over and over for as long as I can remember, never learning the lessons about how to build a team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConnorFutureGM Posted May 2, 2012 Report Share Posted May 2, 2012 Once again you illustrate how one-diensional you are: you don't understand or value goaltending, you believe defense merely has to be adequate, and you don't appreciate the value of a defensive centerman. For you it's all about the Paajarvis and Omarks - just keep the offensive forwards coming. The Oilers are the perfect team for you to be a fan of. In fact, you are probably a simple product of the Oilers: drafting the same type of player over and over for as long as I can remember, never learning the lessons about how to build a team. Giordano, Baertschi, 1st FOR Staal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnrefinedCrude Posted May 2, 2012 Report Share Posted May 2, 2012 Really the best move for Edm is to trade down in the draft and get themselves a top young D man in the process. This is wrong. The following are my opinions: None of this year`s top players are anywhere near Yakupov`s skill level. Scotty Bowman always said `The team that gets the best player wins the trade` flipping this pick has to bring back a very very good player, but none of the teams with a top 5-6 pick will pay the price to move up. None of the defensemen are ready to step in and excel at the NHL level (Murray might play, but not excel.) I personally think Reinheart will be the best of the D-Man crop, and it seems more plausible for the Oilers to trade up rather than down to get him. IMO none of the other D-men seem poised to develop higher than the top few D prospects already in our system. The Oilers glaring need at D is more in need of a current roster player or two, rather than more prospects of the same ilk as we already hold in our system. Free agency and apt trades are the better avenue, we won`t get the calibre of player we need for the pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C_worthy Posted May 2, 2012 Report Share Posted May 2, 2012 Giordano, Baertschi, 1st FOR Staal There you go! At least you've given us some solid trolling here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C_worthy Posted May 2, 2012 Report Share Posted May 2, 2012 None of this year`s top players are anywhere near Yakupov`s skill level. But none of the teams with a top 5-6 pick will pay the price to move up If he IS that much better, why wouldn't they pay to trade up? - these points are inconsistent and you simply don't know that they wouldn't. However, I agree with you that their best course of action is traing the pick for an established quality D-man. Someone to solidify the D and be the player to build around with the upcoming youth. Scotty Bowman always said `The team that gets the best player wins the trade This was absolutely true when Scotty said it. However, in a cap world there is an added dimension and it is all about value (though the comment is still very valid). Also, just because the Oilers were trading down doesn't mean there couldn't also be other pieces and they still end up with the best player. So to say that the other poster is wrong, is well, wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnrefinedCrude Posted May 2, 2012 Report Share Posted May 2, 2012 If he IS that much better, why wouldn't they pay to trade up? - these points are inconsistent and you simply don't know that they wouldn't. I am not being inconsistent. I think the bottom teams don`t have good enough defensive pieces to pay the price to make it worth trading down. whether they are willing or not, they don`t have the assets to make the trade. therefore trading down is not a viable option. The dropoff from #1 is HUGE this year. Unless a team is willing to give up a top paring stud there is no point making the trade from the Oilers perspective. No bottom teams have that. Of the D that might be in play from bottom teams the best would be Schenn, and he is a light year from enough return to make that trade. Yakupov offers a huge upgrade to our secondary scoring, which was also a big hole for our team. if we move him without vastly upgrading our D, then it is a wasted draft. keeping the pick, drafting Yakupov and finding other ways to address our D is a much better option. what you guys suggest is the Oilers mimic the Phaneuf trade with Toronto, trade one valuable piece for a handful of garbage. The Oilers need to look at your recent signing of Cervenka and look in that direction as well as traditional free agency signings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConnorFutureGM Posted May 2, 2012 Report Share Posted May 2, 2012 There you go! At least you've given us some solid trolling here! Ok, I get you now. The Oilers should overpay for a centre because it's the Oilers but the Flames shouldn't pay any of their few valued assets because they're the Flames. Goes to show you that the Oilers can afford to trade their 1st rounder which is a 1st overall but the Flames can't afford to trade their 1st or any other peice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyerfan52 Posted May 2, 2012 Report Share Posted May 2, 2012 I am not being inconsistent. I think the bottom teams don`t have good enough defensive pieces to pay the price to make it worth trading down. whether they are willing or not, they don`t have the assets to make the trade. therefore trading down is not a viable option. Montreal, Anaheim & Columbus all have D that would instantly become #1 in Edmonton. Montreal is probably the best bet & would only mean sliding down 2 spots. Subban seems to have fallen out of favor with the crowd & Bergevin would have a shiny new forward to sell to the crowd. Oilers end up with a top D & add 1 with the #3 overall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnrefinedCrude Posted May 2, 2012 Report Share Posted May 2, 2012 Montreal, Anaheim & Columbus all have D that would instantly become #1 in Edmonton. Montreal is probably the best bet & would only mean sliding down 2 spots. Subban seems to have fallen out of favor with the crowd & Bergevin would have a shiny new forward to sell to the crowd. Oilers end up with a top D & add 1 with the #3 overall. Subban--pass, he will never become elite, but he will always be a locker room problem. Not worth it. Fowler, Anaheim won't offer him up, he'd be the only one to make moving down worthwhile. Johannson would be a good starting point, but CBJ wants the moon for him. won't happen. there is no deal to be realistically had with those 3. Toronto would only move Schenn, who will only get worse with every passing year. there is no realistic trade to be done with the bottom 5, they're as bad defensively as the Oilers. Any trade with them will only be at best plugging one hole by opening up a bigger one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C_worthy Posted May 3, 2012 Report Share Posted May 3, 2012 I think the bottom teams don`t have good enough defensive pieces to pay the price to make it worth trading down. whether they are willing or not, they don`t have the assets to make the trade. therefore trading down is not a viable option. fair enough The dropoff from #1 is HUGE this year. Of the D that might be in play from bottom teams the best would be Schenn, and he is a light year from enough return to make that trade. If you think Schenn plus the #5 isn't worth Yakupov, you are vastly over-rating Yakupov keeping the pick, drafting Yakupov and finding other ways to address our D is a much better option. I hope this is what the Oilers do what you guys suggest is the Oilers mimic the Phaneuf trade with Toronto, trade one valuable piece for a handful of garbage. never said anything remotely close to that Ok, I get you now. The Oilers should overpay for a centre because it's the Oilers but the Flames shouldn't pay any of their few valued assets because they're the Flames. Goes to show you that the Oilers can afford to trade their 1st rounder which is a 1st overall but the Flames can't afford to trade their 1st or any other peice. What the **** are you talking about? You proposed: Giordano, Baertschi, 1st FOR Staal I assumed you were joking. If you were in fact serious and were suggesting this as a an actual trade proposal for the Flames, then you aren't a troll, you're just an idiot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnrefinedCrude Posted May 3, 2012 Report Share Posted May 3, 2012 If you think Schenn plus the #5 isn't worth Yakupov, you are vastly over-rating Yakupov no, i just think we have already seen the best of Schenn, and it's not that good. I would move the pick as part of a bigger deal with Ana. or CBJ. except I don't think either team would include the people I would actually want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C_worthy Posted May 3, 2012 Report Share Posted May 3, 2012 no, i just think we have already seen the best of Schenn, and it's not that good. he's 22 and the Leafs were a mess behind their own blueline. He has all the tools to become a top 2 d-man. PLus, at 22, he's 4 years ahead of drafting another 18 year old d-man. Him and a #5 pick gives the Oil 2 very solid pieces. Yakupov, on the other hand, probably plays 3 line RW (behind Eberle and Hemsky). Anyone who thinks Yak is going to contribute to the Oil in any significant way THIS YEAR is being optimistic IMO. And if they don't substantially improve the D, it's another year of 'hope' I would move the pick as part of a bigger deal with Ana. or CBJ. except I don't think either team would include the people I would actually want. A deal that involved Fowler would be interesting (though as you say, likely not available) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConnorFutureGM Posted May 3, 2012 Report Share Posted May 3, 2012 What the **** are you talking about? You proposed: Giordano, Baertschi, 1st FOR Staal I assumed you were joking. If you were in fact serious and were suggesting this as a an actual trade proposal for the Flames, then you aren't a troll, you're just an idiot. Name calling is not permitted on the boards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C_worthy Posted May 3, 2012 Report Share Posted May 3, 2012 just an observation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flame111 Posted May 3, 2012 Report Share Posted May 3, 2012 Montreal, Anaheim & Columbus all have D that would instantly become #1 in Edmonton. Montreal is probably the best bet & would only mean sliding down 2 spots. Subban seems to have fallen out of favor with the crowd & Bergevin would have a shiny new forward to sell to the crowd. Oilers end up with a top D & add 1 with the #3 overall. This is a good trade for Edm. Subban is young top 2 D man, regardless of the issues and he will mature. He is just a kid at 22. The #3 overall pick is hardly terrible and the Oilers win that in my view but whatever. The mood is very much to hang onto all of the these #1 overall picks, the Cap will come calling at some point though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C_worthy Posted May 3, 2012 Report Share Posted May 3, 2012 This is a good trade for Edm. Subban is young top 2 D man, regardless of the issues and he will mature. He is just a kid at 22. The #3 overall pick is hardly terrible and the Oilers win that in my view but whatever. The mood is very much to hang onto all of the these #1 overall picks, the Cap will come calling at some point though... The Oilers win that HUGE. Giving up Subban to move up 2 spots... people have gone draft-crazy (shakes head) If Tambi were offered taht and didn't do it, he would have to be thrown into Milbury status. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConnorFutureGM Posted May 3, 2012 Report Share Posted May 3, 2012 This is a good trade for Edm. Subban is young top 2 D man, regardless of the issues and he will mature. He is just a kid at 22. The #3 overall pick is hardly terrible and the Oilers win that in my view but whatever. The mood is very much to hang onto all of the these #1 overall picks, the Cap will come calling at some point though... Montreal won't trade the #3 and Subban FOR the #1. If they did, I'm sure the Oilers would be all over that deal. Your wishful thinking of the Oilers cap future is premature. Tavares signed a deal for 5.5 for 6 years and this will be similar deal for RNH, Hall, Eberle and likely Yakupov as well. 2-5.5-5.5 2-5.5-5.5 2-2-2 .6-1-.7 EXTRA:.5 3.5-5.5 5.5-3.5 2-1 EXTRA:.6-.6 4 .75 = 61.75 cap hit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crzydrvr Posted May 3, 2012 Report Share Posted May 3, 2012 Montreal won't trade the #3 and Subban FOR the #1. If they did, I'm sure the Oilers would be all over that deal. Your wishful thinking of the Oilers cap future is premature. Tavares signed a deal for 5.5 for 6 years and this will be similar deal for RNH, Hall, Eberle and likely Yakupov as well. 2-5.5-5.5 2-5.5-5.5 2-2-2 .6-1-.7 EXTRA:.5 3.5-5.5 5.5-3.5 2-1 EXTRA:.6-.6 4 .75 = 61.75 cap hit. What the hell kinda numbers are these. You would never get a second line player for 2 M, let alone a top liner. Hall, RNH and Eberle alone will take more than 15 M. And your starting goalie (I assume that is the number 4 near the bottom) is only 4 M? That's Antti Niemi territory. Oh wait, forgot that's what you were gunning for. Like it or not, having four big money contracts up front will kill your ability to improve depth at other positions. Which is what you shall see, because having to fill out the rest of your top 6 with 2 million dollar players will not end well. You will not be able to get that caliber of player for the money you offer. And as we have seen in the playoffs, the teams that win are the ones with the most performing depth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyerfan52 Posted May 3, 2012 Report Share Posted May 3, 2012 Montreal won't trade the #3 and Subban FOR the #1. If they did, I'm sure the Oilers would be all over that deal. Your wishful thinking of the Oilers cap future is premature. Tavares signed a deal for 5.5 for 6 years and this will be similar deal for RNH, Hall, Eberle and likely Yakupov as well. 2-5.5-5.5 2-5.5-5.5 2-2-2 .6-1-.7 EXTRA:.5 3.5-5.5 5.5-3.5 2-1 EXTRA:.6-.6 4 .75 = 61.75 cap hit. Cool. Yakupov isn't drafted yet but you know his contract demands in 3 years. Connor, with that foresight buy lottery tickets. You can bypass GM & advance straight to owner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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