ConnorFutureGM Posted April 22, 2012 Report Share Posted April 22, 2012 - Correction: Letang wasn't AS HYPED as he is now by the masses. Those who knew the game then knew he was going to be a good one. And he still led the team in D scoring that Cup-winning year. Gonchar was a 19 pts in 25 games scorer, that's still keeping pace with his 50 and 60 point years. You can argue how much of a Norris caliber candidate he was, but fact is he was a stud Dman at that time and was certainly a top tier workhorse. - Pronger was acquired back in 06. The GMs have changed, that deal is hard to close out, almost as much as it is to nab a top line center. And you still got Joffrey Lupul, Ladislav Smid, and 3 draft picks including 2 first rounders from the Pronger trade. Considering Lupul was a top 6 pick, Smid was a top 10 pick, and you managed to pull out Jordan Eberle from the second first rounder....that's still a hefty price to pay for 2 top 3 forwards and a top 4 defenseman, not to mention 2 high picks. - If Gonchar is the defenceman of quality you think the Oilers need, then it isn't going to cost an arm and a leg. - Oilers got more for Pronger than what they gave up. Pronger should have won the Con Smythe that year even if the Oilers lost. Another "Gonchar quality" defenceman that was traded for not that much was Byfuglien. Byfuglien, Eager, Sopel and Aliu were traded for Reasoner, Crab, Morin, a 24th and a 54th overall pick. I'm sure there will be a few teams after the new CBA that will have to shed some salary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crzydrvr Posted April 22, 2012 Report Share Posted April 22, 2012 - If Gonchar is the defenceman of quality you think the Oilers need, then it isn't going to cost an arm and a leg. - Oilers got more for Pronger than what they gave up. Pronger should have won the Con Smythe that year even if the Oilers lost. Another "Gonchar quality" defenceman that was traded for not that much was Byfuglien. Byfuglien, Eager, Sopel and Aliu were traded for Reasoner, Crab, Morin, a 24th and a 54th overall pick. I'm sure there will be a few teams after the new CBA that will have to shed some salary. -A Gonchar in his prime certainly would cost an arm and a leg. 60 point defensemen don't just fall off trees. -The point of the Pronger trade was to show how valuable a top defenseman is. The fact that the Oilers took it to the Ducks on that one only HELPS my argument. Byfuglien wasn't a top defenseman when the Blackhawks traded him, it was in Atlanta/Winnipeg that he broke out and became a permanent blueliner/rover. The Oilers are already up against the cap. They'll be one of the teams that might have to shed salary. They won't be able to take on a major contract from another squad. If those teams are trying to shed salary, why would they go for a team that can only make dollar for dollar trades? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConnorFutureGM Posted April 23, 2012 Report Share Posted April 23, 2012 -A Gonchar in his prime certainly would cost an arm and a leg. 60 point defensemen don't just fall off trees. -The point of the Pronger trade was to show how valuable a top defenseman is. The fact that the Oilers took it to the Ducks on that one only HELPS my argument. Byfuglien wasn't a top defenseman when the Blackhawks traded him, it was in Atlanta/Winnipeg that he broke out and became a permanent blueliner/rover. The Oilers are already up against the cap. They'll be one of the teams that might have to shed salary. They won't be able to take on a major contract from another squad. If those teams are trying to shed salary, why would they go for a team that can only make dollar for dollar trades? - Gonchar < Pronger, Weber - Byfuglien was a defenceman, turned into a right winger back to a defenceman. - Oilers have 42.8 mil in total cap hit value with 16 contracts going into next season. They have lots of room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnrefinedCrude Posted April 23, 2012 Report Share Posted April 23, 2012 The Oilers are already up against the cap. from capgeek, our projected cap space going into next season: $21,450,001 to spend on 4 roster spots. The Flames fans are excited about having contracts coming off the books, but you have a projected cap space of: $17,781,668 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsp393 Posted April 30, 2012 Report Share Posted April 30, 2012 - Gonchar < Pronger, Weber - Byfuglien was a defenceman, turned into a right winger back to a defenceman. - Oilers have 42.8 mil in total cap hit value with 16 contracts going into next season. They have lots of room. lots of room. so why not waste it on a player who only ever plays half the season. so really hemsky is worth 10 mill a year to the oilers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oillio Posted April 30, 2012 Report Share Posted April 30, 2012 lots of room. so why not waste it on a player who only ever plays half the season. so really hemsky is worth 10 mill a year to the oilers? yeah lets see how many NHL games you would be able to play coming right off of shoulder surgery. we'll see what happens this year before we make any drastic decisions with hemmer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyerfan52 Posted April 30, 2012 Report Share Posted April 30, 2012 yeah lets see how many NHL games you would be able to play coming right off of shoulder surgery. we'll see what happens this year before we make any drastic decisions with hemmer. Yeah, investing $10 million over 2 years to find out if he's healed is a great idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsp393 Posted April 30, 2012 Report Share Posted April 30, 2012 yeah lets see how many NHL games you would be able to play coming right off of shoulder surgery. we'll see what happens this year before we make any drastic decisions with hemmer. the guys never played a full nhl season in his life. hes played just over half the games in the last three years. hes a total liability and clearly not worth his contract. need proof? go through this list. theres the reoccuring shoulder problem that will likely be with him for his career but look at all the assortment of other injuries. everything from constant illness's to groin problems http://forecaster.thehockeynews.com/hockeynews/hockey/player.cgi?2376&showAllMoves=1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConnorFutureGM Posted April 30, 2012 Report Share Posted April 30, 2012 Yeah, investing $10 million over 2 years to find out if he's healed is a great idea. How much does Bouwmeester get paid again? $230,345 per point. Oh yeah, he's a keeper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsp393 Posted April 30, 2012 Report Share Posted April 30, 2012 How much does Bouwmeester get paid again? $230,345 per point. Oh yeah, he's a keeper how about $/minute played compared to hemsky? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConnorFutureGM Posted April 30, 2012 Report Share Posted April 30, 2012 how about $/minute played compared to hemsky? Bottom line is Bouwmeester is more overpaid than Hemsky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsp393 Posted April 30, 2012 Report Share Posted April 30, 2012 Bottom line is Bouwmeester is more overpaid than Hemsky. thats opinion. there both overpaid but it depends where you place value. hemsky is a good player but is always got some sort of excuse for why he isnt playing. jbo on the otherhand plays every game but since joining the flames he hasn't lived up to his contract or point totals, though very sound defensively. i disagree though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flame111 Posted April 30, 2012 Report Share Posted April 30, 2012 Bottom line is Bouwmeester is more overpaid than Hemsky. Hemsky is paid market value, that is what he would have gotten as UFA. The saving grace on the Hemsky contract is the short term which always favors the team. Jbo is overpaid but still does his job. At 4.5 million, there would not be a peep about him. Every critique of him centers around his pay, not his performance… So he doesn't score, so what, D men are paid to defend primarily, after years of watching Neuf's D-zone brain farts I can assure you I prefer Jbo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anie8706 Posted May 1, 2012 Report Share Posted May 1, 2012 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRT8t4Y__gc I don't know if I cry or laugh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flame111 Posted May 1, 2012 Report Share Posted May 1, 2012 Absurd trade proposal here. If the Oilers do this, they have flipped the rebuild car. http://blogs.edmontonjournal.com/2012/04/28/should-the-edmonton-oilers-trade-their-top-pick-for-jordan-staal/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConnorFutureGM Posted May 1, 2012 Report Share Posted May 1, 2012 Absurd trade proposal here. If the Oilers do this, they have flipped the rebuild car. http://blogs.edmontonjournal.com/2012/04/28/should-the-edmonton-oilers-trade-their-top-pick-for-jordan-staal/ It's a suggestion, not a rumour. The 1st is worth more than Staal but Staal is worth much more than Iginla. Toronto would pay big time for Staal. 1st > Staal > Krejci > Iginla Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C_worthy Posted May 1, 2012 Report Share Posted May 1, 2012 It's a suggestion, not a rumour. The 1st is worth more than Staal but Staal is worth much more than Iginla. Toronto would pay big time for Staal. 1st > Staal > Krejci > Iginla It isn't absurd at all (the Staal suggestion) Staal is a legitimate high-end NHL player. You know what you are getting. The #1 pick is a prospect - he may turn out to be better than Staal (10-20% chance maybe) and he may never play in the NHL (unlikely but possible). The fact that some people think the pick is worth more than Staal just goes to show how ridiculously fans over-value picks/prospects in relation to actual NHLers. Plus, Staal is a big, smart centre - ask the 20 or so teams that don't have one of those how valuable that is. ANY GM would happily take Staal. Fans (especially Oiler fans that have been fed nothing but hope for years) might not see it that way yet. The only reason that might not be a great trade for the Oilers is that they need to address defense and goaltending. But in and of itself, Staal for the #1 pick is a great return. And having RNH and Staal down the middle is a hell of a way to start to build a team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flame111 Posted May 1, 2012 Report Share Posted May 1, 2012 It isn't absurd at all (the Staal suggestion) Staal is a legitimate high-end NHL player. You know what you are getting. The #1 pick is a prospect - he may turn out to be better than Staal (10-20% chance maybe) and he may never play in the NHL (unlikely but possible). The fact that some people think the pick is worth more than Staal just goes to show how ridiculously fans over-value picks/prospects in relation to actual NHLers. Plus, Staal is a big, smart centre - ask the 20 or so teams that don't have one of those how valuable it is. ANY GM would happily take Staal. Fans (especially Oiler fans that have been fed nothing but hope for years) might not see it that way yet. I think the first overall is worth more than Staal. We know what Staal is, Yak is head and shoulder above the rest of the draft. Now if you want to talk Staal for the 2nd overall pick I am listening but based on what I have read Yak is the real deal - he doesn't translate to J. Staal. Now in another draft year with another 1st overall, maybe you have a case but not this year, not with Yak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flame111 Posted May 1, 2012 Report Share Posted May 1, 2012 It's a suggestion, not a rumour. The 1st is worth more than Staal but Staal is worth much more than Iginla. Toronto would pay big time for Staal. 1st > Staal > Krejci > Iginla And what can the Leafs give for J. Staal - given the Cap and all. Toronto's 5th overall? Cap problems. Phaneuf in Pitts? With that contract and Crosby and Malkin coming up? Make your Toronto trade, it isn't so simple. With Connolley / Grabo in Toronto - no way Pitts has any interest in either of those players… Make your trade and keep in mind Pitts Cap horizon and their desire to win a Cup in the near future... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C_worthy Posted May 1, 2012 Report Share Posted May 1, 2012 I think the first overall is worth more than Staal. We know what Staal is, Yak is head and shoulder above the rest of the draft. Now if you want to talk Staal for the 2nd overall pick I am listening but based on what I have read Yak is the real deal - he doesn't translate to J. Staal. Now in another draft year with another 1st overall, maybe you have a case but not this year, not with Yak. You're wrong. I'm sorry, I know these are just opinions, but you're wrong. Yakupov may never play in the NHL. Look at Ovechkin, one of the best #1 picks in the last 20 years. I'll bet if you asked 30 GMs today whether they would rather have Ovi or Staal, it would be a lot closer than you think. With Yakupov, you MIGHT have a franchise player, but in all likelihood, you have something more like a Hall. And you might have end up with a Zherdev. Yes, Yakupov is highly touted - as is every #1 pick. And even though there has been a bit of a streak of them turning out solid, you simply don't know. And there is another factor at play here that you haven't considered: the Oilers are FULL of potential. They need reality. Staal is a GUARANTEED big, solid, two-way centerman. Again, go try and find one of those. Any team that has a RNH-type prospect and then has a chance to add a Staal to that - all I can say is I wish I wa that GM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flame111 Posted May 1, 2012 Report Share Posted May 1, 2012 You're wrong. I'm sorry, I know these are just opinions, but you're wrong. Yakupov may never play in the NHL. Look at Ovechkin, one of the best #1 picks in the last 20 years. I'll bet if you asked 30 GMs today whether they would rather have Ovi or Staal, it would be a lot closer than you think. With Yakupov, you MIGHT have a franchise player, but in all likelihood, you have something more like a Hall. And you might have end up with a Zherdev. Yes, Yakupov is highly touted - as is every #1 pick. And even though there has been a bit of a streak of them turning out solid, you simply don't know. Yak is more likely to be the RNH-like franchise player. Everyone knew Hall was reckless in his play. I never liked him personally. RNH has to fill out, that is his biggest problem. Anyway, we can agree to disagree. Regardless if you see Staal > / = 1st or not. The CAP doesn't work. Edm is headed straight into a Cap wall if they got Staal now, it doesn't fit the timeline and it doesn't address their primary need for D. It isn't a smart move. If they take Yak, once agin they can string out another entry level deal on the cheap. Staal at 5-6 million will set a immediate bar for Hall, RNH and Eberle to want equal or greater money. It is not prudent Cap management to not stagger those deals out... Really the best move for Edm is to trade down in the draft and get themselves a top young D man in the process. I am sure Toronto will draft swap with them and send a top young D man and the Oilers still draft Dumba or whoever at 5th overall... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C_worthy Posted May 1, 2012 Report Share Posted May 1, 2012 Yak is more likely to be the RNH-like franchise player. Everyone knew Hall was reckless in his play. I never liked him personally. RNH has to fill out, that is his biggest problem. Anyway, we can agree to disagree. Regardless if you see Staal > / = 1st or not. The CAP doesn't work. Edm is headed straight into a Cap wall if they got Staal now, it doesn't fit the timeline and it doesn't address their primary need for D. It isn't a smart move. If they take Yak, once agin they can string out another entry level deal on the cheap. Staal at 5-6 million will set a immediate bar for Hall, RNH and Eberle to want equal or greater money. It is not prudent Cap management to not stagger those deals out... Really the best move for Edm is to trade down in the draft and get themselves a top young D man in the process. I am sure Toronto will draft swap with them and send a top young D man and the Oilers still draft Dumba or whoever at 5th overall... I agree that their best move is to trade down and take a D-man. Or to trade the pick straight up for a legitimate top 2 d-man (which I think is a better plan) As for the cap comment, I don't agree at all: Hall and Eberle and their agents know what they are worth - the addition of Staal would have no impact on that (well, no more than the moronic Hemsky contract will have anyway). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flame111 Posted May 1, 2012 Report Share Posted May 1, 2012 I agree that their best move is to trade down and take a D-man. Or to trade the pick straight up for a legitimate top 2 d-man (which I think is a better plan) As for the cap comment, I don't agree at all: Hall and Eberle and their agents know what they are worth - the addition of Staal would have no impact on that (well, no more than the moronic Hemsky contract will have anyway). What about Horcoff at 5.5 million Cap hit ? He obviously slots down to 3rd line. Who pays a third line C - 5.5 million? That makes Stajan look like a dream deal. And Horcoff is there for another 3 years. I just don't see the fit… Between Hall, Eberle, RNH, Horcoff and Staal - even low balling at 5.5 million each that is 22 million tied up in 4 players in 2013/14. If you include RNH in his final RFA year at 3.775 million and Hemsky at 4.1 million now you have practically 30 million tied up in 6 forwards. It just doesn't make sense to me. And they have nothing even spent on quality D men yet... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C_worthy Posted May 1, 2012 Report Share Posted May 1, 2012 It just doesn't make sense to me. And they have nothing even spent on quality D men yet... The difference between you and me is that you seem to WANT the Oilers to make good decisions. Flame, I never once said I thought the Oilers should do this. What I said was that I believe Staal is worth more than the #1 pick. That doesn't mean it would be a good trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConnorFutureGM Posted May 2, 2012 Report Share Posted May 2, 2012 And what can the Leafs give for J. Staal - given the Cap and all. Toronto's 5th overall? Cap problems. Phaneuf in Pitts? With that contract and Crosby and Malkin coming up? Make your Toronto trade, it isn't so simple. With Connolley / Grabo in Toronto - no way Pitts has any interest in either of those players… Make your trade and keep in mind Pitts Cap horizon and their desire to win a Cup in the near future... Staal FOR Kulemin, Schenn, Colborne, Ross Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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