cross16
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Posts posted by cross16
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23 minutes ago, The_People1 said:
Could we trade Huberdeau for Couturier?
Couturier has six years remaining at $7.75-mil. NMC. Rumour is he changed agents to ask the Flyers for a trade. Would Couturier be willing to waive to come to Calgary?
I get the angle of Huberdeau for anyone but I think it needs to be pointed out that Huberdeau is still a good player. He's overpaid sure but he contributes and as we saw in the 2nd half is still a borderline top line player.
Couturier has barely played due to injuries and IMO it's zapped his career. I understand the rationale of dump his contract at any cost but IMO you'd be picking up a bigger problem in Couturier.
i would not be interested at any cost.
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53 minutes ago, robrob74 said:
I think it's more that they didn't really describe the analytics that I noticed, from the post.
Yes you'd have to go to his site for that information. It's not high tech, it just takes into account their production (stats) in a certain league based on their age and proximity to draft year.
His site breaks it down better but I don't want to give away everything as it is a behind a paywall. Pretty affordable though.
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24 minutes ago, The_People1 said:
I assume you mean would FLA acquire Huberdeau's contract?
FLA is win-now... Huberdeau put up 100+ points with them recently... 80-ish on average. IF any team can get Huberdeau back on track, then it would be FLA. Sam Bennett is still there, etc. Huberdeau is getting paid $10.5-mil but putting up $5-mil worth of numbers... Spencer Knight is $3.5-mil dead cap space... Can both teams come together in the middle?
Short answer, no. Nobody should... but so, Flames retain and modify that contract for FLA. Or better yet, what's the number you think FLA would do it? Flames retain $3-mil-per?? (better than a buyout right?)
No, would you. Personally before I look to see if a team would do it I would ask myself would I. If the answer is pretty obvious to you why isn't it to the team.
I don't see a scenario where he is dealt personally. I don't think Florida can afford him and I don't think they wanted to pay him, which is why they moved him in the first place.
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1 hour ago, The_People1 said:
Is there some kind of cap dump trade we can do with another team for Huberdeau? Both teams trade to help a struggling player have a change of scenery?
If FLA loses Reinhart this summer, then can the Flames trade Huberdeau to FLA? Maybe for Spencer Knight who is stuffed in the minors and dealing with substance abuse or whatever it was he's dealing with? The Flames maybe retain $1-mil-per.
Would you acquire that contract?
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3 hours ago, robrob74 said:
It doesn't really say much about their scouting, other than the fact they picked those picks at those draft positions. What were the players rankings? Ok, they draft well. It isn't actually saying what they say, that there is something telling about their picks?
It's an analytics take on it. I think what the stars have done a nice job of doing is focussing on players with skill, talent and production and ignoring some of the traps of size and "potential". They take players who if they hit on will be stars, and if they miss can still carve out a depth role.
Contrast that to the Flames and in particular the picks of Boltman, Kuznetsov and Stromgren. I think in all 3 of these cases they Flames took players for the wrong reasons. Botlman was always a hard one to see but Kuzentsov they took him for size and Stromgren size and straight line speed. The problem with both is neither had any history of production so your basically trying to develop skills that arn't really there and that lowers the ceiling. Even if the Flames were right on Stromgren/Kuzentsov I think you are looking at a bottom pairing dman and a bottom 6 forward. They took a gamble and in an area with a low probability of it paying off.
That's essentially what he is saying.
1 hour ago, The_People1 said:They also picked Heiskanen and passed on the future greatest Defenseman of all mother time. It may go down as the biggest missed draft opportunity in Dallas Stars franchise history.
But ya, get lots of 1st and 2nd round picks and draft safe. Take the obvious pick and don't outsmart yourself.
That is a very large hyperbole considering how good Heskinen also is. I love Makar too but that's not as egregious as you make it sound.
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This is an interesting thread related to the "Dallas Model" idea and what the Stars did to have some success. Talks about some trends that the Stars used. Long story short, you arn't going to get there by taking long shots and flyers, you need to take players who had a good chance to hit.
The good news story is the Flames are pretty good in this area. Sure they have some misses (Kuznetsov, Boltmann, Stormgren are the primary outliers here) but what is really key to point out about the Stars is they made their headway in the first 2 rounds. That's where you can avoid the flyers and bet on talent so if the Flames can keep acquiring more picks in this area they've got a shot.
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On 4/25/2024 at 10:46 AM, The_People1 said:
I wonder if it's more likely that they can't afford it. Season ticket holders can forgive one year in the basement but you start to lose them after multiple years there. And ownership is just about making money and not about making legacy.
Tanking for years is effective, if not just a natural cycle of a team. Just embrace the tank.
I have some complaints about ownership but IMO this one is totally unfair.
If they were just about making money then I think they would do things very differently. They don't agree with you on the method of building a winner but I think it's unfair to suggest that means they value money over winning. I don't think for a second that is the case.
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On 4/28/2024 at 1:51 PM, robrob74 said:
I wonder how much play style has to do with Huberdeau? The west isn't the east, and do the flames play his style of game?
70/30. I think there are adjustments Huberdeau can make in his game I do think the way he played Jan 1 on is about as good as your going to get within the Flames system. At 5 on5 he was a top 50 players in things like assists, first assist and individual point production (in the league). His chance creation numbers were very good as well, not elite but good.
I think if you want more the Flames are going to need to change he way they play. Someone with chemistry would help but I think style of play if the bigger issue for me. Your not going to have too many forwards put up career years here within the Flames system.
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Good on the Wranglers. I'll look forard to checking out a game or two.
William Strongren really starting to heat up and show what the Flames liked about him.
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On 4/24/2024 at 3:35 PM, conundrumed said:
I get what you're saying, but you've got to do better than that. He has history in the league that's more worth than a fifth.
We shouldn't be having to give him away. Losing trades, just because, shouldn't be on the agenda. Some form of decent prospect and a 5th. But just a 5th? That's horrible asset mgmt. Develop players, give them away. It haunts us a bit.
I dont disagree and the 5th rounder is probably not accurate, it was to prove a point. I do think you get more.
I just think the value to the Flames is the ice time and development spot alongside Backlund. I think there is value in that that offsets some of the loss of value by perhaps dealing him now and not at the TDL.
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9 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:
Conroy mentioned the Dallas model.
If the Flames want to fast-track the rebuild, they're probably going to look like LA.
Like the Flames, the Kings had some very good veterans when the team entered it's decline. Better veterans, hall of famers in fact.
The core of the Cup teams got old. The Kings ended up picking top ten for three straight years and top eleven in four of five drafts. The Flames look to be trending that way.
The Kings return to relevance hasn't really been due to their drafting and development. It's been due to (primarily) Kopitar and Doughty still playing well and the organization speeding things along by trading picks and young players for immediate help. Dubois/Arvidsson/Fiala/Gavrikov. They traded a likely Calder finalist in Brock Faber.
On the surface, there's nothing really wrong with the LA model. They've had good regular seasons and made the playoffs three consecutive years. Something Calgary hasn't done since the Iggy/Kipper era.
The LA model is really a matter of philosophy. Do you want to be a playoff team, or do you want to be a contender? LA is a playoff team. They're nowhere near a threat in the West. If you're an owner you're probably ok with your two or three home playoff dates a season. LA relies so heavily on Doughty and Kopitar, when they decline/retire, I think they are a team in no-mans land. I like Byfield but he's not a Kopitar and I like Clarke but he's no Doughty. Because they elected to speed things up, they've traded a lot of futures and haven't drafted all that well recently. They sped it up and it worked, it's just not something built to last IMO.
I agree with the conclusion and honestly i'm not even sure if the Flames do this they can wind up as good as LA because Kopitar/Doughty are quite a bit better than anything the Flames have. could make a case Weegar is closer to Doughty sure but Kopitar is head and shoulders above the Flames best center IMO.
But agree if the Flames stick to this path, baring getting really lucky in the lottery, I think their going to wind up looking like the New York Islanders. While possible to build in the Dallas model, the challenge with that one is your margin for error is razor thin. Look at Dallas right now. They don't have those 1-2 game breaking type players so Vegas plays a good game against them and they are searching for answers. That's your challenge with building a team based on depth as opposed to high end skill. The success of that model rests on your ability to draft a superstar late in the draft. Possible yes, likely? guess we'll see.
This shouldn't come as a surprise. As i've been saying for years now, it's never been this organization's intention to rebuild for multiple seasons. They don't believe in it.
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Very surprised by Dallas. Not just the 2-0 but the fact they’ve looked slow and terrible
good on Vegas and give them credit but for a team that looked well built going in has sure disappointed
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I think you'll have a taker for Mang but the price is going to be low. Think at best you'll get a couple of mid round picks, maybe a 3 if you eat some salary. There might be value in waiting til the TDL.
As i've said before I personally would just take what I get and move on, even if all you get is a 5th. I think he needs a change of scenery and I think the Flames need the spot on the Backlund line to work in young players. That's more valuable to me than the picks.
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1 hour ago, The_People1 said:
Canucks actually had several chances to win yesterday's game without Demko but they couldn't finish. Beat themselves.
But ya, Demko to Desmith is a huge step down, much like Markstrom to Vladar. Week-to-week may as well mean season ending injury.
Like you said, two hall of famers. Flames need to draft those first. Buium and Parekh have the best chance to succeed playing that style of hockey. After that, we need to tankasaurus next season (or two/three) to draft a #1 Center. Be patient with this retool. After we have the players, then we can play the Avs style successfully.
Yes but as usual it sounds easy but you could tank for 10 years and never get players like Mackinnon and/or Makar that's all I would point out.
Just saying the Avs style of play is not easy to replicate no matter what talent level you have.
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I know i'm not supposed to but I feel for the Canucks. That's a tough, tough injury to get now after the season they've had. I wasn't confident they were going to win the series with Demko but I really don't think they have much of a chance with out him. He's very key to their success.
Caught a bit of the Avs/Jets game and boy that is fun. What great hockey, what pace. It may be hard to replicate, given it appears the Avs likely have 2 hall of fame players in their lineup, but I wish the Flames would build in the Avs image. Their speed, creativity and fluidness to their game is the best to watch in the NHL so as a fan I would love to see that replicated here.
Avs feel like a goalie away though. Georgiev was better last night for sure but still not great. Avs don't have a ton of cap space so you have to wonder how attractive Markstrom would look to them with salary retained or if the Flames took Georgiev back.
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On 4/20/2024 at 1:11 PM, robrob74 said:
To your point and hear me out; he's scored some goals. Grant that... i am sure Conroy is looking at it like, what else does he do? Is he killing penalties at a good clip? Is he scoring 5v5 vs just the pp?
im with you, is this the player?
How close does he resemble kuzmenko? Is kuz's contract the one to base the contract on?
Well tough thing with Kuzmenko is that contract was based off 1 year in the NHL. Sharangovich has a few years so there is more to base on but I do think there are similarities so it's a potential comp for sure. Kuzmenko is the better goal score and offensive player but I think Sharangovich is more well rounded. He produced on both the PP and 5 on 5 at a good clip, one of their better PKers too. Can play a harder role against opposition too where I think Kuzmenko you have to bury.
but I do think he gets overrated for his defensive game. It's ok, but it's not good, and while he owns a wicked shot he isn't great at making other around him better.
They won't do this but I think the more I look at the less i'd re-sign him too. His situation leads to a bad deal more often than not. Hopefully the Flames handle the negotiation well.
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What a bizarre hire.
Got experimental with Granato so as is typical with NHL decision making now they have to go "conservative".
NHL has probably the most bizarre hiring practices of the major pro sports leagues
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1 hour ago, robrob74 said:
how often can you get a Hronek like the Canucks did?
How many players are 3rd pair needing a chance? And do those teams that have them see them as that?
had we not traded for Hamonic, we might have had a decent player in, I think it was Dobson?
Although, maybe we'd have taken Farabee? Or other players not in the NHL now.
Think this really comes down to how willing are you to stretch the definition of elite.
Dobson, not for me. Very good, but not elite. Hronek not even close. Hronek was just the right pair for an already elite dman in Hughes.
If your plan is to trade for an elite dman and actually think you can harbor more then one then good luck but i'd reckon your are really stretch the definition of "elite".
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1 minute ago, sak22 said:
Round 1 begins on Wednesday against Tucson, entire series will be in Tucson with the Wranglers getting last change in game 2. So potentially no playoff hockey games played in the dome this spring.
The AHL sure is a quirky league when it comes to their playoffs.
I get it, but it's weird. Would be nice to see some Wrangler playoff games.
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The "the Flames like to go off the board" narrative is one of the many really dumb ones that consistently float around here. Jankowski was the outlier and not the trend and even then that one gets pretty misconstrued around here.
I can very much understand they don't always pick who someone wants but if you go back and look at the first round I think your going to be hard pressed to show the Flames making mistakes. 2nd rounder hasn't been their friend but in the first round they've done well.
I think the imbedded criticism in that is more that people wanted them to have more picks and for the picks to be lower in the first round, which is a more reasonable argument/expectation then looking at the draft record IMO. I think the Flames are one of the better drafting teams in the NHL.
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On 4/20/2024 at 3:48 PM, phoenix66 said:
Except you forget Yegor plays all 3 forward positions including center ... Power play, and kills penalties .. does he need more experience at all 3, sure , but in the end he's not "just a winger"
But .. what is gonna happen , will happen..
I was highly relieved when Connie outlined just what the plan and blueprint is.. it is 100% NOT bottoming out .. it's getting better every year ..kids what played this year need to take a step next year ..
He named Dallas as the model..
Veteran core at all 5 positions ..so don't expect him to be shopping Markstrom.. if NJ wants to blow us away , maybe he listens ..but if that happens expect a vet quality starter to come back thru the door ( Talbot?) I don't rule it out cuz when asked about Markstrom he did say " we'll see"
Trades will be for ages 18-23
Free agency ..expect some reinforcements from there .. likely nothing long term or high ticket but significant adds
From there..need to hit on draft picks on all rounds .. expect him to be more frugal with trading any picks than his predecessors. Quantity gives you a higher chance of hitting quality
Again.. we can hope..we can wish all we want , but that is the blueprint in action straight from the source
I would disagree with this. IMO Markstorm is not a Flame next year. I think that relationship has come to an end.
Just a question of seeing if Conroy overplayed his hand or not but I don't think we are in the "you need to blow me away" to trade him part of this anymore.
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2 hours ago, pcs said:
Didn’t Connie say in one of his recent pressers that he doesn’t think long contracts are the way to go right now? I got the impression he’s not looking at anyone with a mind to signing any more than 4-5 years at a time. And if he’s saying that to the press the players must be aware of the messaging (unless of course he’s saying one thing publicly and other things to players/agents). I’d be surprised if he buckles to any demands for massive term at this point.
Believe that was in reference to UFAs.
The Flames had long term deal offers on the table for both Hanifin and Lindholm.
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8 minutes ago, robrob74 said:
is Utah changing their staff?Not initially at least. entire franchise (players, personnel, reserve list and hockey ops staff) are transferring to Salt Lake.
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I think Yegor's camp will start with the Hagel contract. Lightning gave him 8 X6.5 coming off a 30 goals and 64 point season and a 25 and 44 point season before that. Pretty similar, although I do think Hagel is the better player the comp is pretty spot on. They were only 1 year apart in age too.
I'd be surprised if the Flames can get him for 5 or less. Jason Dickinson just got paid 4.25 with a career high 14 goals in a season (finished at 22 this year), Bertuzzi got the 5.5 from the Leafs for career highs similar to Yegor (and in a flat cap environment). Zucker 5.2, Killhorn over 6. Even Mang at 5.8 is a pretty good comp for Yegor.
Unless he's willing to only do a 4/5 year deal I'm not in a rush to be getting that deal done, especially if he is asking for a Hagel style deal. I'd let him go into the season if that is the case and see what type of player you get.
Western Conference Playoffs
in Flames Talk
Posted
LA is going the wrong direction. Going to be a really interesting off season for them. Heat is starting to pick up on Blake and I think for good reason. I'm not surprised Edm made quick work of them.
I hate to say this but with all the goalie injuries Van is facing this is setting up to maybe be the Oilers year. Van impressed me more than I thought so far against the Preds but the Preds offence stinks, Edm's doesn't.
I think they have a pretty good path to the WCF. Can they beat a Dallas, Vegas or Colorado? I'm skeptical but you never know what happens the deeper we get.