Thebrewcrew Posted June 13 Report Share Posted June 13 1 hour ago, The_People1 said: My blood is boiling 😂 Trying to regain leverage is all it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conundrumed Posted June 13 Report Share Posted June 13 I'm still waiting for Detroit to offer Husso, A. Johansson and figure out picks for Markstrom!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted June 13 Report Share Posted June 13 7 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said: Trying to regain leverage is all it is. I don't think hes lost it , but he's definitely asserting it This is a huge test for Conny. He held his ground on deals when everyone knew he had to make them on UFAs.. likely limited the offers overall . This one , like I've mentioned previously, he doesn't have to make , and it needs to be clear to suitors that he's totally willing to not make it unless it's a deal that meets his criteria . Gms like to try and take advantage of the new guy . He's quickly building a rep as a tough negotiator . It's imperative he doesn't blink here.if that means Marky is our starting goalie opening night then so be it And just as a side note.. every single UFA he traded , with the exception of maybe Zadorov..they were trying to resign up to the last minute .. gives a bit of insight to the belief they don't have a tank mentality Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted June 13 Report Share Posted June 13 13 hours ago, The_People1 said: I cannot disagree more with this. I think fans want a legit contender to cheer for and not a middling team year after year. Fans can just as easily lose interest if the team is in the playoffs one year and out the next, and always one and done in the playoff. It's human nature to want to see the team improve over time, not go in circles endlessly. That's where I'm at personally. A franchise earns life long fans after winning championships. If it wasn't for '89, then I probably wouldn't have lasted this long. I see a lot of millenials tune out quick. If this team doesn't win a championship this generation then they will only continue to have increasingly more fickle fans moving forward. I know it's possible to win a Cup without first tanking but I'm also not saying let's spend 8+ years in the tank. Whatever strategy you are suggesting to get out of this bottom, let's do that... But after dipping into the draft for 2-4 years. If lucky, then it won't take too long. And if you think it takes too much luck to tank, then you haven't seen the stats for rebuilding while drafting 12-16 every year. You will need even more luck. Much more. I lived through the Young Guns... I saw the empty seats . Was actually in a season ticket group .went to about 10-15 games a year ..many times went by myself because I literally could not give the other ticket away. We had decent young exciting players .. but they couldn't win so people stopped going. .. Sutter and 04 saved this team.. and not only cuz of the Run to the final. The day we made the playoffs again you'd have thought we just won the cup.. the run was a complete bonus .. You can go the push to get in game ..and still keep improving your team as expectations increase .. On the business side ..ya ..I totally back it there too. I actually bristle every time somebody talks about our "billionaire owner who doesn't care about the fans" I mean he saved this team. He gives his hockey ops blank checks to spend to the cap. I'm sure he has a say on dead money (buyouts ..retention ..firing coaches) ..but let's be serious..he's not getting richer off this team.. to want a bit of a return in terms of playoff revenue seems pretty reasonable to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted June 13 Report Share Posted June 13 1 hour ago, conundrumed said: I'm still waiting for Detroit to offer Husso, A. Johansson and figure out picks for Markstrom!! Part of me is expecting a team nobody thought of showing up to win this .. like Vegas and Hanifin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted June 13 Report Share Posted June 13 29 minutes ago, phoenix66 said: I lived through the Young Guns... I saw the empty seats . Was actually in a season ticket group .went to about 10-15 games a year ..many times went by myself because I literally could not give the other ticket away. We had decent young exciting players .. but they couldn't win so people stopped going. .. Sutter and 04 saved this team.. and not only cuz of the Run to the final. The day we made the playoffs again you'd have thought we just won the cup.. the run was a complete bonus .. You can go the push to get in game ..and still keep improving your team as expectations increase .. On the business side ..ya ..I totally back it there too. I actually bristle every time somebody talks about our "billionaire owner who doesn't care about the fans" I mean he saved this team. He gives his hockey ops blank checks to spend to the cap. I'm sure he has a say on dead money (buyouts ..retention ..firing coaches) ..but let's be serious..he's not getting richer off this team.. to want a bit of a return in terms of playoff revenue seems pretty reasonable to me I think the new arena is going to help a lot though. Lower maintenance costs and more energy efficient. Should free up cashflow and give more flexibility for rebuilding with more time than can be afforded before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted June 13 Report Share Posted June 13 1 minute ago, The_People1 said: I think the new arena is going to help a lot though. Lower maintenance costs and more energy efficient. Should free up cashflow and give more flexibility for rebuilding with more time than can be afforded before. Yes..in the beginning people will want to experience the new arena for sure... but the product better be top notch or the novelty wears off quite quick... Early days of young guns we were still considered a first class facility .. that faded quickly for sure .. and don't think for a second tickets will be cheaper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted June 13 Report Share Posted June 13 1 hour ago, phoenix66 said: Yes..in the beginning people will want to experience the new arena for sure... but the product better be top notch or the novelty wears off quite quick... Early days of young guns we were still considered a first class facility .. that faded quickly for sure .. and don't think for a second tickets will be cheaper Calgary's population has doubled since the Young Guns days though. The size of the market has grown. There are reasons to believe a rebuild could still fill the Saddledome at least 90% for its final few seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sak22 Posted June 13 Report Share Posted June 13 22 minutes ago, The_People1 said: Calgary's population has doubled since the Young Guns days though. The size of the market has grown. There are reasons to believe a rebuild could still fill the Saddledome at least 90% for its final few seasons. I don't think attendance will drop off to late 90's levels, but I don't think population growth has much impact on the team, we are a transplant city with continued growth coming from Ontario and BC, if they are hockey fans they are likely Leafs, Canucks, Habs, or Oiler fans. Transplants convert when the team is doing good and leave at bad times, don't usually convert at the start of a rebuild unless you are getting a generational player. I don't think attendance will be an issue, but also don't think tickets will be hard to get for most games 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conundrumed Posted June 13 Report Share Posted June 13 Not the same market, but Detroit crushed a 20,000 avg for about 25 years. LCA opened in '17 to a pretty bad team. Worst attendance was '21, the year after covid, at about 17,000. They've generally been at about 19,000 the past 2 years. Capacity is 19,500. I know it never looks packed on TV, but the concourse bars and things to do always have the rest. lol I'm so interested to see the finished product in 3 years. Imagine this scenario: Flames are in the finals RIGHT NOW. Where around that dump that is the Saddledome are the watch parties outside where everyone can gather? There is nothing compelling about the whole setup. Alternatively, the Wings never make the playoffs, but always have great hockey-related events at the venue grounds. Every draft they have a "Sticks & Picks Festival" to watch the draft outside and have a bunch of fun events for kids and adults alike. The finals are currently showing, meet & greets, etc. In Calgary, I'd be more concerned about creating these fun hockey-related occasions, and by-laws of course, than the fan base turning away. Just because your team isn't great, doesn't mean that your PR dept has to be devoid of ideas/skills to keep it fun. I'd be more worried about that part. Between Stampede and Heritage Park, there really isn't a point in making everything about Cowboys and Indians clichés. It will be, won't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cberg Posted June 13 Report Share Posted June 13 3 hours ago, phoenix66 said: I lived through the Young Guns... I saw the empty seats . Was actually in a season ticket group .went to about 10-15 games a year ..many times went by myself because I literally could not give the other ticket away. We had decent young exciting players .. but they couldn't win so people stopped going. .. Sutter and 04 saved this team.. and not only cuz of the Run to the final. The day we made the playoffs again you'd have thought we just won the cup.. the run was a complete bonus .. You can go the push to get in game ..and still keep improving your team as expectations increase .. On the business side ..ya ..I totally back it there too. I actually bristle every time somebody talks about our "billionaire owner who doesn't care about the fans" I mean he saved this team. He gives his hockey ops blank checks to spend to the cap. I'm sure he has a say on dead money (buyouts ..retention ..firing coaches) ..but let's be serious..he's not getting richer off this team.. to want a bit of a return in terms of playoff revenue seems pretty reasonable to me I’m pretty sure the market value of this team has gone up dramatically. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted June 13 Report Share Posted June 13 1 minute ago, cberg said: I’m pretty sure the market value of this team has gone up dramatically. yes but thats only realized if he were to sell.. he pump a lot of money into the whole thing ..playoffs is commonly the only time cap teams see a bonus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conundrumed Posted June 13 Report Share Posted June 13 2 hours ago, phoenix66 said: young guns Those kids loved Smuggler's Inn (Smuggy's). lol Iggy, Savard, Stillman, Bure etc. I've never heard of so many endless pints of cranberry juice since. I really miss that cajun prime rib, though. Loved that place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted June 13 Report Share Posted June 13 55 minutes ago, sak22 said: I don't think attendance will drop off to late 90's levels, but I don't think population growth has much impact on the team, we are a transplant city with continued growth coming from Ontario and BC, if they are hockey fans they are likely Leafs, Canucks, Habs, or Oiler fans. Transplants convert when the team is doing good and leave at bad times, don't usually convert at the start of a rebuild unless you are getting a generational player. I don't think attendance will be an issue, but also don't think tickets will be hard to get for most games I work with a lot of them. Sask folks. and East Coast Habs fabs. Their kids are all born in Calgary and are Flames fans to their dislike. But that's how it is. The next gen needs a Cup win to solidify their attention on the Flames or else risk losing them as they get older. Middling in the league just doesn't cut it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted June 13 Report Share Posted June 13 2 hours ago, The_People1 said: Calgary's population has doubled since the Young Guns days though. The size of the market has grown. There are reasons to believe a rebuild could still fill the Saddledome at least 90% for its final few seasons. and i will even concede it was a different time. Some great names came thru here.. Iggy, Regehr, Bure, Huselius, Giguere, St Louis, Housely, Nylander, Reichel and more.. but there was no cap and we had cheap ownership..Had they been kept together and paid ..maybe theyd have had a powerhouse, but they would have been in a different city by then cuz fans were not coming . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sak22 Posted June 13 Report Share Posted June 13 19 minutes ago, The_People1 said: I work with a lot of them. Sask folks. and East Coast Habs fabs. Their kids are all born in Calgary and are Flames fans to their dislike. But that's how it is. The next gen needs a Cup win to solidify their attention on the Flames or else risk losing them as they get older. Middling in the league just doesn't cut it. No it doesn't, but I also don't think this market will take to a the process of rebuilding as well as Edmonton (the process being still showing up to games from October to April and not just discussing the next draft online), I just don't view this fanbase as having the rose colored glasses like they do. Let's not forget they were "building something special" 3 years before they won the McDavid lottery. The appetite to put up with losing seems strong here, but this is a board of 20 regular posters it seems and half of them don't live in Calgary. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sak22 Posted June 13 Report Share Posted June 13 1 hour ago, conundrumed said: Between Stampede and Heritage Park, there really isn't a point in making everything about Cowboys and Indians clichés. It will be, won't it? It's just cowboys going forward, yes even in Calgary. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conundrumed Posted June 13 Report Share Posted June 13 24 minutes ago, sak22 said: this is a board of 20 regular posters it seems and half of them don't live in Calgary. Hey, I loved Cambrian Heights. lol But after 18 years, this guy kinda nails it. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted June 13 Report Share Posted June 13 26 minutes ago, phoenix66 said: and i will even concede it was a different time. Some great names came thru here.. Iggy, Regehr, Bure, Huselius, Giguere, St Louis, Housely, Nylander, Reichel and more.. but there was no cap and we had cheap ownership..Had they been kept together and paid ..maybe theyd have had a powerhouse, but they would have been in a different city by then cuz fans were not coming . Different times for sures. The Flames were basically a farm team for the rich teams to take from back then. We developed players for them. Anyways, I think the landscape is different this time around. And I hope it doesn't take 8-years or whatever in the cellars. Hoping for a quick bounce back... Most importantly, we are in the window to tank for McKenna 2026 and Dupont 2027. If we hit one of those then I think we change our franchise moving forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted June 13 Report Share Posted June 13 In terms of Calgary's market discussions, SJS sold away Hertl and retained for 6-years to help tank to the bottom. Is it because the SJS market can sustain a long tank but our Flames market cannot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sak22 Posted June 13 Report Share Posted June 13 1 minute ago, The_People1 said: In terms of Calgary's market discussions, SJS sold away Hertl and retained for 6-years to help tank to the bottom. Is it because the SJS market can sustain a long tank but our Flames market cannot? San Jose had the 3rd worst attendance this year and has averaged under 14K the last 3 years. Tomas Hertl played on the team for 2.75 of those years, Erik Karlsson played for 2 of them and Timo Meier played for almost 2. The team was last place by a good margin with Hertl what else was going to happen. The hope is now with Mack and the Fresh Prince they can build a better core while using the returns on those trades to hopefully fill the voids that have failed when they had Hertl and co. But 2 years ago they were a market who refused to say rebuild, and instead signed Hertl long term, now all it took was to finish dead last to realize the state of the team. I don't think I ever said the Flames market can't sustain it, just saying it won't be a hot commodity if it does happen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTech780 Posted June 13 Report Share Posted June 13 The Florida Panthers making a run to the Cup Final two years in a row has to be the worst thing to happen to the blow it up crowd. Florida has 3 of their own picks on this team (Barkov, Lundell and Ekblad) the rest of the team was brought in via trade, signing or waiver claim. Now I am not saying that the blowing it up isn't an effective way to build a contender, in fact it is probably the best way to build a contender. I am just a realist and I don't think you will ever see full tear down like SJ or Chicago are doing in Calgary. So I just don't see the point in beating a dead horse and getting my hopes up waiting for a tear down. Instead I think you will see moves that make the eam better today and tomorrow. I think they will continue to be smart with pending UFA's, but I don't think they are going to move guys with term like Kadri or Weegar, nor do I think will get much anything for them if you did try and trade them. Right now I think this team's core Consists of Kadri, Huberdeau, Weegar and Backlund, at least till some younger players arrive and start subplanting those players as part of the core. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conundrumed Posted June 13 Report Share Posted June 13 11 minutes ago, sak22 said: finish dead last to realize the state of the team. Bad mems. The Wings have been bad forever to 10yos. You run out of assets worth anything, then you have hit rock bottom. I keep arguing this. Bottoming out will NOT be a quick turnaround, by any stretch of the imagination. I don't care what team. Look at Edmonton. >5 yrs of 2 of the best in the world. Always my argument for unweighting the draft and the frivolous lottery. That team (SJ, currently), is absolutely that ravaged, it's gonna be awhile. Shouldn't the concept be to lift struggling franchises with more than lottery odds? It's kinda slummy. Just leave it alone to correct your markets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conundrumed Posted June 13 Report Share Posted June 13 3 minutes ago, JTech780 said: The Florida Panthers making a run to the Cup Final two years in a row has to be the worst thing to happen to the blow it up crowd. Florida has 3 of their own picks on this team (Barkov, Lundell and Ekblad) the rest of the team was brought in via trade, signing or waiver claim. Now I am not saying that the blowing it up isn't an effective way to build a contender, in fact it is probably the best way to build a contender. I am just a realist and I don't think you will ever see full tear down like SJ or Chicago are doing in Calgary. So I just don't see the point in beating a dead horse and getting my hopes up waiting for a tear down. Instead I think you will see moves that make the eam better today and tomorrow. I think they will continue to be smart with pending UFA's, but I don't think they are going to move guys with term like Kadri or Weegar, nor do I think will get much anything for them if you did try and trade them. Right now I think this team's core Consists of Kadri, Huberdeau, Weegar and Backlund, at least till some younger players arrive and start subplanting those players as part of the core. Florida is the biggest poker player in the league. They've given up an entire team that would likely give them a good run. lol Pretty impressive. They'll trade anyone but Barkov, and now Tkachuk. Well, they could, theoretically, trade them too. lol Anyone think Quenneville is still hovering around them? Honest question, not an assertion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted June 13 Report Share Posted June 13 30 minutes ago, JTech780 said: The Florida Panthers making a run to the Cup Final two years in a row has to be the worst thing to happen to the blow it up crowd. So much non-sense. "Blow it up" means does not want to eventually make great trades and signings? Kekistan bro. We want to do it all, just like FLA. Start with a blow up, and then evolve the team forward. Does FLA get to the Cup Finals without starting with Ekblad/Barkov? Likely not. FLA is actually pro-Blow it up. An example of how to start from a tank and end up Cup Finals (and probably wins it this year) ...and not to mention they are playing against the definition of Tankasaurus in the Cup Finals. Sheesh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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