Realistic (and unrealistic) Trades - 2024 Edition

[The_People1]

1 minute ago, phoenix66 said:

anyone you draft is 2-3 years away ..  this keeps us competitive while the kids develop.

if we were tanking then yes .. but we're not ..we know that.. the prime directive is make the playoffs whether some like it or not 

 

So we had Markstrom, Lindholm, Hanifin, and Tanev and missed the playoffs.  So replacing them with Talbot, Monahan, and maybe Pesce, will get us competitive (like push for the playoffs)??

 

That's very wishful thinking.

 

I know you are also banking on Wolf, Pospisil, and Zary taking the next step but like I was saying about timing, the timing of Backlund, Coleman, Huberdeau, Kadri, etc, getting old and will slow down and offset the positive improvements from the kids.  We are still a team that needs to trim off the old and get younger before we get better.

 

At best we go full circle and get back to 9th worst next season.  Why would you advocate for that?

[phoenix66]

there were many reasons for that season , I think we all know that . nearly every player had an off season .

We know Murray has dictated a contender steps on the new arena ice--  that's slated for the 27-28 season.

That's 3 seasons away.. maybe delays make it 4.. Your way we are drafting kids that wont even be on the team yet 

 

also ..kids learn better from vets

[The_People1]

20 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

there were many reasons for that season , I think we all know that . nearly every player had an off season .

We know Murray has dictated a contender steps on the new arena ice--  that's slated for the 27-28 season.

That's 3 seasons away.. maybe delays make it 4.. Your way we are drafting kids that wont even be on the team yet 

 

also ..kids learn better from vets

 

Only Lindholm was bad.  Mange was bad but that's two years in a row now.

 

Markstrom enjoyed a bounce back year.  Hanifin posted career numbers.  Coleman has a career year.  Sharangovich had a career year.  Weegar had a career year. Kadri scored his career average.

 

We are what we are.  Not a very good team.  It's not a team worth clinging onto thinking we are a few pieces away.  We Infact need a new core and that helps with drafting higher in the next 2-4 years.

 

And exactly, I think Edwards wants a competitive team for the new arena.  So spend at least 2 years in the basement.  UFA isn't even good this year.  Don't force it to happen.  

[phoenix66]

32 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Only Lindholm was bad.  Mange was bad but that's two years in a row now.

 

Markstrom enjoyed a bounce back year.  Hanifin posted career numbers.  Coleman has a career year.  Sharangovich had a career year.  Weegar had a career year. Kadri scored his career average.

 

We are what we are.  Not a very good team.  It's not a team worth clinging onto thinking we are a few pieces away.  We Infact need a new core and that helps with drafting higher in the next 2-4 years.

 

And exactly, I think Edwards wants a competitive team for the new arena.  So spend at least 2 years in the basement.  UFA isn't even good this year.  Don't force it to happen.  

I thought you meant the previous year .. this year we were actually trending towards a playoff spot even with Huberdeau and Lindholm not doing great .. until we started selling the pieces. Tanev and Hanifin were the final straw 

 

and not competitive by then .. a contender 

 

I mean at the end of the day we don't make any decisions .. I'm just pointing at what  believe will be the route based on the directions they've stated..  but personally I'll never be on board with a tank.. too much luck involved , and you just make players used  to losing 

[phoenix66]

Interesting... And we just hired the Jackets previous coach 🤔

 

Report: Laine, Blue Jackets working on trade

https://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/2925910

[tmac70]

15 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Tanking is not intriguing at all.  It's just a necessary evil.

 

Basically, you want to fish for franchise altering talent drafting in the 12-18 range and I want to do it in the top 4.  Right? Essentially, before we springboard to contender status, where do we want to spend our time?

 

I can respect your opinion on this because it is more intriguing to be honest and it feels better.  But bruh, the stats and history isn't on your side.  Franchise altering talent is easier found when drafting very early.  There are no guarantees anyway, right?  Many teams never get out of the basement and at the same time, many teams get stuck in the middle for decades.  Both suck.

 

But again, just play the percentages.  More franchise altering talent is found in the top 4 than in the 12-18 range.  Hold your nose for 2 to 4 years.  Short term pain for long term gain.  On the other hand, if you simply want to squeeze into the playoffs once every three years and try to be a Cinderella team, then your way is better.

Hey, it's not me you need to convince, I have Zero skin in the game, it's just what this franchise does.  Extremely wealthy people make calculated gambles.  If they make bad decisions they don't back it up by making another one, a moderate return is better than no return at all. A few points that IMHO I think the owners do based their actions over the years 

 

1) Average teams competing for playoff spots can be more financially stable. Teams that are consistently in the mix tend to retain a stable fan base. which helps with ticket sales, merchandise, and sponsorships.

2)  Some owners prioritize short-term financial stability and competitiveness rather than rebuilding. The unwillingness to endure the financial hit and loss of fan interest, ticket sales and merchandise sales is too high. 

3) Continuously losing can be detrimental to the development of young players, and team identity, especially in a small market and player attraction/retention. 

4) The Flames seem to prefer a gradual rebuild over several seasons, focusing on drafting well, developing prospects, and making strategic trades rather than tanking.

 

This kind of summarizes what the owners and management have been implementing. 

 

 

[The_People1]

5 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

Hey, it's not me you need to convince, I have Zero skin in the game, it's just what this franchise does.  Extremely wealthy people make calculated gambles.  If they make bad decisions they don't back it up by making another one, a moderate return is better than no return at all. A few points that IMHO I think the owners do based their actions over the years 

 

1) Average teams competing for playoff spots can be more financially stable. Teams that are consistently in the mix tend to retain a stable fan base. which helps with ticket sales, merchandise, and sponsorships.

2)  Some owners prioritize short-term financial stability and competitiveness rather than rebuilding. The unwillingness to endure the financial hit and loss of fan interest, ticket sales and merchandise sales is too high. 

3) Continuously losing can be detrimental to the development of young players, and team identity, especially in a small market and player attraction/retention. 

4) The Flames seem to prefer a gradual rebuild over several seasons, focusing on drafting well, developing prospects, and making strategic trades rather than tanking.

 

This kind of summarizes what the owners and management have been implementing. 

 

Well, what do YOU think though?  Are you just championing the franchise line or do you have your own opinions and ideas?  What's the point of discussing anything if we all just go along with what the team says and does.  It's okay to disagree with them and then bring your own ideas to the plate.

 

The Flames have exactly done everything you said.  Well, at least under John Bean.  And now we are gearing up for a new arena and all that... Has/should the message from Edwards change?

[The_People1]

31 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

Interesting... And we just hired the Jackets previous coach 🤔

 

Report: Laine, Blue Jackets working on trade

https://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/2925910

 

Interesting.

 

First thought is Huberdeau for Laine but Huberdeau's cap is so atrocious.  Also, Laine has a history of injuries... and checked into NHL's player assistance program for mental health issues.  Perhaps, concussion related stuff.  He's most likely never the player he used to be.

 

But man, i'd take two years of that over seven more of Huberdeau.

[tmac70]

2 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Well, what do YOU think though?  Are you just championing the franchise line or do you have your own opinions and ideas?  What's the point of discussing anything if we all just go along with what the team says and does.  It's okay to disagree with them and then bring your own ideas to the plate.

 

The Flames have exactly done everything you said.  Well, at least under John Bean.  And now we are gearing up for a new arena and all that... Has/should the message from Edwards change?

As a business person myself I can justify their direction, and I would do it the same way.  The main theme here is to understand your audience. There is no way I would watch or even be engaged for the next 8 years with the possibility I lose interest altogether, I think that's where most fans would be.  I don't disagree with what you are saying but logically, financially, and emotionally I would be out for sure.

[Thebrewcrew]

 

 

[The_People1]

13 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

As a business person myself I can justify their direction, and I would do it the same way.  The main theme here is to understand your audience. There is no way I would watch or even be engaged for the next 8 years with the possibility I lose interest altogether, I think that's where most fans would be.  I don't disagree with what you are saying but logically, financially, and emotionally I would be out for sure.

 

I cannot disagree more with this.  I think fans want a legit contender to cheer for and not a middling team year after year.  Fans can just as easily lose interest if the team is in the playoffs one year and out the next, and always one and done in the playoff.  It's human nature to want to see the team improve over time, not go in circles endlessly.  That's where I'm at personally.

 

A franchise earns life long fans after winning championships.  If it wasn't for '89, then I probably wouldn't have lasted this long.  I see a lot of millenials tune out quick.  If this team doesn't win a championship this generation then they will only continue to have increasingly more fickle fans moving forward.

 

I know it's possible to win a Cup without first tanking but I'm also not saying let's spend 8+ years in the tank.  Whatever strategy you are suggesting to get out of this bottom, let's do that... But after dipping into the draft for 2-4 years.  If lucky, then it won't take too long.  And if you think it takes too much luck to tank, then you haven't seen the stats for rebuilding while drafting 12-16 every year.  You will need even more luck.  Much more.

[The_People1]

41 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

 

 

 

Way too early.  But probably safe to say there's nothing SJS can do to change their fortunes next season.  They are horrible.

 

Depending on what the Flames do moving forward, they can either repeat 9 or move up to 4.  There's still several pieces preventing us from challenging SJS for the top pick.

[Thebrewcrew]

3 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Way too early.  But probably safe to say there's nothing SJS can do to change their fortunes next season.  They are horrible.

 

Depending on what the Flames do moving forward, they can either repeat 9 or move up to 4.  There's still several pieces preventing us from challenging SJS for the top pick.

I think the author of the post took a look at the Flames blueline.

 

Who's their #3 D? Miromanov? Pachal? Hanley? Yikes. Not counting Kylington as he is a pending UFA

[Thebrewcrew]

Flames Options to Target From Senators in Markstrom Trade - The Hockey Writers - Calgary Flames - NHL News, Analysis & More

 

Shane Pinto would make a lot of sense for the Flames. RHS C. Drafted in 2019, he is the same age as Wolf/Pelletier. Fits what the Flames are building. He did receive a gambling suspension, caused him to miss half of the 23/24 season. In 22/23 though, he scored 20. I think he could see a nice jump in production in an elevated role. 

 

I think the Flames would want Ridly Greig. I just think the Sens would be more likely to move Pinto. Even before he had the suspension, it seemed to be a difficult negotiation. He ultimately ended up having to take his QO.

 

What would a deal look like?

First of all, I would only take Korpisalo if it meant getting pick #7. I don't see it happening. They can deal with their Korpisali mess. A buyout isn't actually that bad, if Ottawa needs to go that route. I would be fine with one year of Anton Forsberg at 2.75 though. Would be a very competitive crease in training camp.

 

Maybe something like

Conditional 2025 1st. Ottawa has to surrender a 1st round pick in 25 or 26, because of the failed Dadonov NTC. If Ottawa elects to surrender their 2025 pick , then Calgary receives a 2026 1st, unprotected.

Anton Forsberg

Shane Pinto

[cberg]

1 hour ago, Thebrewcrew said:

 

 

Jackets and Hawks had tons of injuries, I’d expect them to be way better.  Flames somewhat worse.

[Otown72]

Laine worth a shot?

Jackets are looking to trade. Might be worth it just for taking the salary if they throw in a sweetener.

[robrob74]

3 hours ago, phoenix66 said:

I thought you meant the previous year .. this year we were actually trending towards a playoff spot even with Huberdeau and Lindholm not doing great .. until we started selling the pieces. Tanev and Hanifin were the final straw 

 

and not competitive by then .. a contender 

 

I mean at the end of the day we don't make any decisions .. I'm just pointing at what  believe will be the route based on the directions they've stated..  but personally I'll never be on board with a tank.. too much luck involved , and you just make players used  to losing 

but it's been two years of poor performances by Hubie. I am not sure we can expect him to be back to his career averages. Maybe he does, but so far the mix has been wrong for him. Whether it's players or team style of play...

[tmac70]

3 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

but it's been two years of poor performances by Hubie. I am not sure we can expect him to be back to his career averages. Maybe he does, but so far the mix has been wrong for him. Whether it's players or team style of play...

Hubie had players he could feed and that opened ice for him FLA. Bennett and Duclair are both fast and push the D back creating space and time. He doesn't have that here. Also, Barkov and Reinhart are no slouches either.  If he gets 70-85 points that's a very good season for him. IMHO give him better faster players to play with and I think we could all be extremely surprised at what he can do. He's here for awhile its best to get him some run support to help him along. 

[robrob74]

10 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

Hubie had players he could feed and that opened ice for him FLA. Bennett and Duclair are both fast and push the D back creating space and time. He doesn't have that here. Also, Barkov and Reinhart are no slouches either.  If he gets 70-85 points that's a very good season for him. IMHO give him better faster players to play with and I think we could all be extremely surprised at what he can do. He's here for awhile its best to get him some run support to help him along. 

Thats easy to say, but adding them is another story. How long has Calgary needed players like that? Sure we had Bennett but refused to play him with substance for extended periods. Just saying I don't expect him to be that 80 point player anymore. 

[tmac70]

6 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

Thats easy to say, but adding them is another story. How long has Calgary needed players like that? Sure we had Bennett but refused to play him with substance for extended periods. Just saying I don't expect him to be that 80 point player anymore. 

The hardest part is the additions I agree, but doable.  They invested in him, be nice to at least try to add to help him out. We do have a boatload of cap space, I have a hard time believing that ownership and management sit on it and do not add via trade or UFA pick-ups.  Moving Marky and Mags adds to that close to $26 Million. I also could see a trade with our VCR pick for a top 6 player. This club won't sit on that much capital, there will be some changes a coming lol

[robrob74]

10 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

The hardest part is the additions I agree, but doable.  They invested in him, be nice to at least try to add to help him out. We do have a boatload of cap space, I have a hard time believing that ownership and management sit on it and do not add via trade or UFA pick-ups.  Moving Marky and Mags adds to that close to $26 Million. I also could see a trade with our VCR pick for a top 6 player. This club won't sit on that much capital, there will be some changes a coming lol

Conroy did say they have that option, spending in UFA. Maybe there are many unknowns and I agree it is worth trying to get a guy for Huberdeau:

 

one thing about Huberdeau is he played between the first and second line. One thing to play with Barkov and Bennett separate times, and another to be the only first line option. 

[phoenix66]

12 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

The hardest part is the additions I agree, but doable.  They invested in him, be nice to at least try to add to help him out. We do have a boatload of cap space, I have a hard time believing that ownership and management sit on it and do not add via trade or UFA pick-ups.  Moving Marky and Mags adds to that close to $26 Million. I also could see a trade with our VCR pick for a top 6 player. This club won't sit on that much capital, there will be some changes a coming lol

Duclair is just a signature away.. and I agree , you don't just forget how to play in one offseason..you need to get him the players that work for him..

 

 

Interesting tidbit on flames talk just now ..per Elliot Freidman, Flames have informed teams and Markstrom that they are fully prepared and willing to have him on the roster next season . 

In other words ..we get the deal we like or we're not making it ... And to Markstrom if we get a deal we like and you don't waive , then you're staying 

[phoenix66]

Now here's a clip that should raise some blood pressures around here ..🤣🤣

 

 

 

 

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

11 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Well firstly, last time we had Giordano to start the rebuild and that's what largely made it all possible.  He enters Norris-level almost immediately once he became captain.  This time, no one.

 

Secondly,  I'm not saying to not do all that.  But merely, spend the 2-4 years in the top 4 first.  And then after we got the new core, then evolve upwards and onwards.

Ah, the Oiler strategy. Good plan.

[The_People1]

59 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

Now here's a clip that should raise some blood pressures around here ..🤣🤣

 

 

 

 

 

My blood is boiling 😂