2023 Offseason

[cross16]

36 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Fair enough.

 

I'd also like to target Puljujarvi for 900k x 1.  I've always thought he was a good defensive 3rd line RW with size and compete level.  He's a victim of being drafted way too high and then not living up to expectations.  He doing surgery so will probably be out until December.  We should take a chance on him.

 

I wouldn't necessarily say "no" but given his injury I would lean towards passing. I have a hard time seeing him coming back and being impactful this year. 

[sak22]

 

 

[The_People1]

6 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

I wouldn't necessarily say "no" but given his injury I would lean towards passing. I have a hard time seeing him coming back and being impactful this year. 

 

He's having double hip surgery.  Is this similar to Monahan?  Monahan was never the same again.

[cross16]

43 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

I agree that that FA opportunities like this (buy low) should be explored, possibly first.   I'm not super concerned about the 1.8 because he's only got 2 years left on it.   Actually guys on contracts like that tend to perform pretty well, cause they know they gotta.   But yeah.  As a rule, overpaying is a bad thing, even for smaller amounts.  all adds up.

 

I still think biggest faster is the picking order and how it's affected, which I don't understand.   Someone high-value will end up on waivers at some point.  Would be nice to be first in line when they are.

 

Up until Nov 1st it goes based on the previous year's standings in reverse (not draft order but standings). So until Nov 1st the Flames have the 17th priority. 

 

After Nov 1st it goes by current standings and changes as they do. I am not aware of rule that removes a team's priority if they select a player. 

[cross16]

2 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

He's having double hip surgery.  Is this similar to Monahan?  Monahan was never the same again.

 

Ah yes double.

 

I'm not sure how it compares but it makes him a no in my eyes. 

[jjgallow]

15 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

Up until Nov 1st it goes based on the previous year's standings in reverse (not draft order but standings). So until Nov 1st the Flames have the 17th priority. 

 

After Nov 1st it goes by current standings and changes as they do. I am not aware of rule that removes a team's priority if they select a player. 

 

thank you. That is surprising but good for us.   Kind of like if Chicago had first chance to pick every player in the draft lol.

 

I like some of the other FAs you suggested better.   Also some of the FA defencemen available. On the other hand I think the contract is very forgiveable.

 

 

[MP5029]

48 minutes ago, sak22 said:

 

 

Of course Cgy has no vision or imagination to nab that guy…shocker…

 

id Also be inclined to take a flyer on Puji but again that won’t happen either why buy low when you can over pay on guys like Hubby and Kadri 

[sak22]

2 minutes ago, MP5029 said:

Of course Cgy has no vision or imagination to nab that guy…shocker…

 

id Also be inclined to take a flyer on Puji but again that won’t happen either why buy low when you can over pay on guys like Hubby and Kadri 

Well at least the Flames are on par with the rest of the league as 31 teams passed and one tried to get rid of him for nothing.  

 

People really need to get over draft position, it should be common knowledge by now that every team has their own Rico Fata's and only a small percentage of reclamation projects succeed.

[jjgallow]

13 minutes ago, MP5029 said:

Of course Cgy has no vision or imagination to nab that guy…shocker…

 

id Also be inclined to take a flyer on Puji but again that won’t happen either why buy low when you can over pay on guys like Hubby and Kadri 

 

I often wonder about these.

 

To be fair, a lot of teams passed on him that can use him.   not just the Flames.

 

Why?

 

dunno?  But maybe one of these 3:

 

1.  Teams know something about him we don't.

 

2.   An un-written rules exists among teams to let certain players waive?
                 Clearly did not apply to Valimaki though lol.   

 

3.  Still better options in free agency considering his 1.8

 

Dunno.   I also feel there is more upside there.   Gotta be one of these 3, can't think of anything else.  But we see it a lot.  Guys like this pass through waivers with no explanation and no bites from any team.

[travel_dude]

34 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

I often wonder about these.

 

To be fair, a lot of teams passed on him that can use him.   not just the Flames.

 

Why?

 

dunno?  But maybe one of these 3:

 

1.  Teams know something about him we don't.

 

2.   An un-written rules exists among teams to let certain players waive?
                 Clearly did not apply to Valimaki though lol.   

 

3.  Still better options in free agency considering his 1.8

 

Dunno.   I also feel there is more upside there.   Gotta be one of these 3, can't think of anything else.  But we see it a lot.  Guys like this pass through waivers with no explanation and no bites from any team.

 

No unwritten rule in this case.  The player was included in trade calls and nobody wanted that inclusion.  Sending him down gives a little more options, but ultimately, they either buy out or pay a portion of his salary.  A buyout is cheaper, but lasts for 4 years (low dollars though).

 

At 50%, he represents as much risk/reward as other players signed in FA, just a 2 year deal to worry about.  AT 50%, you can bury him without penalty.  And teams would likely claim him if they saw something in him at 50%.  I say risk reward since we have seen guys like Pitlick and Jarnkrok come here and do nothing.  

[jjgallow]

24 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

No unwritten rule in this case.  The player was included in trade calls and nobody wanted that inclusion.  Sending him down gives a little more options, but ultimately, they either buy out or pay a portion of his salary.  A buyout is cheaper, but lasts for 4 years (low dollars though).

 

At 50%, he represents as much risk/reward as other players signed in FA, just a 2 year deal to worry about.  AT 50%, you can bury him without penalty.  And teams would likely claim him if they saw something in him at 50%.  I say risk reward since we have seen guys like Pitlick and Jarnkrok come here and do nothing.  

 

I agree.   there must be something we don't know though.

 

I would fault the Flames but every other NHL team passed on him too.  Even the smart ones.   

 

Dunno.

[cross16]

If i had to guess Zadina was likely put on waiver to communicate trade intentions. There is really nothing to be gained cap wise for Detroit sending him down right now and he's going to have to be put on waivers again in the pre season if they actually want to assign him so this is likely a case of telling everyone this player is available for trade. 

 

Waivers is few intricacies to them that make them less attractive to just go around claiming players

 

First off you have to have the cap space to acquire them (or I guess feel ok to exceed the cap to do so). Roughly have the league right now (probably slightly more actually) can't do that for Zadina's deal. 

Players claimed on waivers need to stay on your NHL roster or if you are going to put them back on waivers they have to be offered to the original team first to re claim them. This puts a dent into the whole collect assets idea of using waivers. 

So given they need to stay on your roster now you have to have room for them to play. When you look at waivers it's almost always depth players looking for a shot, well what team doesn't have players in a similar boat they want to give a shot to? Think bias is at play here where teams likely feel what they have and what they've developed is the better way to go. 

Last but not least there is the risk factor. Zadina being on a 2 year deal means what the backup plan if it doesn't work out? other teams didn't want him so now your stuck. Sure you can "bury" they money but that's about 800K of dead cap space on your books now. 

 

If he was on a 1 year deal i'd guess someone would have jumped at it, i'm betting it was the 2nd year that made teams balk. I'm sure there is a small degree of conclusions that goes on but it's tough for me to see 32 GMs all coming together to make sure their wavier claims go through, and like I said in this case there is no benefit to Detroit waiving him. 

[conundrumed]

29 minutes ago, cross16 said:

If i had to guess Zadina was likely put on waiver to communicate trade intentions. There is really nothing to be gained cap wise for Detroit sending him down right now and he's going to have to be put on waivers again in the pre season if they actually want to assign him so this is likely a case of telling everyone this player is available for trade. 

 

Waivers is few intricacies to them that make them less attractive to just go around claiming players

 

First off you have to have the cap space to acquire them (or I guess feel ok to exceed the cap to do so). Roughly have the league right now (probably slightly more actually) can't do that for Zadina's deal. 

Players claimed on waivers need to stay on your NHL roster or if you are going to put them back on waivers they have to be offered to the original team first to re claim them. This puts a dent into the whole collect assets idea of using waivers. 

So given they need to stay on your roster now you have to have room for them to play. When you look at waivers it's almost always depth players looking for a shot, well what team doesn't have players in a similar boat they want to give a shot to? Think bias is at play here where teams likely feel what they have and what they've developed is the better way to go. 

Last but not least there is the risk factor. Zadina being on a 2 year deal means what the backup plan if it doesn't work out? other teams didn't want him so now your stuck. Sure you can "bury" they money but that's about 800K of dead cap space on your books now. 

 

If he was on a 1 year deal i'd guess someone would have jumped at it, i'm betting it was the 2nd year that made teams balk. I'm sure there is a small degree of conclusions that goes on but it's tough for me to see 32 GMs all coming together to make sure their wavier claims go through, and like I said in this case there is no benefit to Detroit waiving him. 

Detroit waived him due to his trade request. Couldn't make a trade happen, so put him on waivers to try to do right by the player for a fresh start.

Yzerman had a great extended interview yesterday regarding all of the moves, draft etc.

Here's the Zadina explanation:

 

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, conundrumed said:

Detroit waived him due to his trade request. Couldn't make a trade happen, so put him on waivers to try to do right by the player for a fresh start.

Yzerman had a great extended interview yesterday regarding all of the moves, draft etc.

Here's the Zadina explanation:

 

 

Yzerman doesn't dodge questions.  Just tells it like it is.

[conundrumed]

2 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Yzerman doesn't dodge questions.  Just tells it like it is.

Yeah his interviews are always good. Yesterday’s was about 35 minutes. He’s great a staying on point and being concise. Some of the media, like anywhere, are complete tools.

[JTech780]

https://www.nhl.com/flames/news/flames-announcement-development-camp-details/c-345218652
 

Flames announced their Development Camp yesterday. One thing I noticed was the size of the invites. Only one player was under 6’. 
 

I would say there has been a massive shift away from skill first and size after. I think for things like development camp invites you probably aren’t going to uncover top 6 players in undrafted players, but you might find the next Garnet Hathaway.

[robrob74]

18 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

https://www.nhl.com/flames/news/flames-announcement-development-camp-details/c-345218652
 

Flames announced their Development Camp yesterday. One thing I noticed was the size of the invites. Only one player was under 6’. 
 

I would say there has been a massive shift away from skill first and size after. I think for things like development camp invites you probably aren’t going to uncover top 6 players in undrafted players, but you might find the next Garnet Hathaway.

i think that is the hope. The year before, the 4th line was a good contributor, mainly not being detrimental to the team. Lewis provided size, and Lucic was a lot better than this year. But this year they got bested seemingly a lot. 
 

I liked what Hathaway brought. I would have paid to keep him, considering we are willing to pay a million too much on most free agents, he was one I felt was actually good.
 

I find a quality 4th line is harder to build than most think. 

[jjgallow]

3 hours ago, JTech780 said:

https://www.nhl.com/flames/news/flames-announcement-development-camp-details/c-345218652
 

Flames announced their Development Camp yesterday. One thing I noticed was the size of the invites. Only one player was under 6’. 
 

I would say there has been a massive shift away from skill first and size after. I think for things like development camp invites you probably aren’t going to uncover top 6 players in undrafted players, but you might find the next Garnet Hathaway.

 

Or Giordano.

 

I'm  not sure what side of the size argument he would be in lol, he's right on that line.     But top-6 wise, it does happen and when it does it can change your whole team.

 

Was Phillips a bad pickup?   No.     Should we have traded him at some point? I think yes. 

 

Giordano...again,  not a bad camp invite.   Maybe coulda got more for him earlier.

 

Gaudreau a bad draft pick?  No.   Did we manage the asset well?  No.

 

I never saw an issue with the skill acquisition.    I saw an asset management issue.   You acquire all small guys, you gotta make some trades.   You can't just wait for them to grow taller.

 

 

 

[cross16]

Another reason Zadina wasn't claimed. Your about to have a shot at getting him for free it looks like. 

 

 

[Otown72]

We could have traded Vladar for Zadina and maybe a mid round pick?

 

Maybe thats overpaying, but given our crowded crease situation maybe it is not a bad trade. Brings our cap down 300k😂

Detroit has Mrazek and ? In net

[Otown72]

Ok Detroit has Husso and Reimer in net😆

Wrong year🙂

[conundrumed]

3 minutes ago, Otown72 said:

Ok Detroit has Husso and Reimer in net😆

Wrong year🙂

Husso, Reimer and Lyon. Reimer's just a short term placeholder to keep Husso's starts down.

Could ask Detroit to retain on Zadina, but doubtful. I think they're fine with keeping him. Good puckhandler and solid defensively but the ability vs the result is frustration on all sides. I'm sure he'll have a career as a bottom 6 due to his D, but so much more was expected.

Another cautionary tale: don't make threats at the draft.lol "I can't wait to fill their nets with pucks"...

Hopefully he can find his way. Of the players available for <1mil, he'd be the best one. Killed himself on that 2nd contract at $1.825per that he fought to hard for. Yzerman alluded to it in a different part of his interview. Something to the effect of, "that's the contract he wanted", in terms of trying to meet his trade request.

Detroit really needed to develop him moderately, and Grand Rapids has been below the bar at developing youth back to the Blashill days. Most, including Blashill, have been purged now so hopefully we see some progress in GR. The best of their young developed in the SHL.

 

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, conundrumed said:

Husso, Reimer and Lyon. Reimer's just a short term placeholder to keep Husso's starts down.

Could ask Detroit to retain on Zadina, but doubtful. I think they're fine with keeping him. Good puckhandler and solid defensively but the ability vs the result is frustration on all sides. I'm sure he'll have a career as a bottom 6 due to his D, but so much more was expected.

Another cautionary tale: don't make threats at the draft.lol "I can't wait to fill their nets with pucks"...

Hopefully he can find his way. Of the players available for <1mil, he'd be the best one. Killed himself on that 2nd contract at $1.825per that he fought to hard for. Yzerman alluded to it in a different part of his interview. Something to the effect of, "that's the contract he wanted", in terms of trying to meet his trade request.

Detroit really needed to develop him moderately, and Grand Rapids has been below the bar at developing youth back to the Blashill days. Most, including Blashill, have been purged now so hopefully we see some progress in GR. The best of their young developed in the SHL.

 

So.....

Are you saying we should try to pick him up as a UFA after they terminate his contract?

I can think of players with less defensive accumen.

Really, I think there are bargains out there that we appear frozen on making decisions on.

Or, we suck so bad on pro scouting that they don't even appear on our lists.

FFS, move on from Backlund already.

Trade Hanifin for whatever you can get.

Move on.

Sick of PTO's that are basically retreads and just take up space we could use on our kids.

Or decent PTO's that might actually make a team.

[The_People1]

4 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Husso, Reimer and Lyon. Reimer's just a short term placeholder to keep Husso's starts down.

Could ask Detroit to retain on Zadina, but doubtful. I think they're fine with keeping him. Good puckhandler and solid defensively but the ability vs the result is frustration on all sides. I'm sure he'll have a career as a bottom 6 due to his D, but so much more was expected.

Another cautionary tale: don't make threats at the draft.lol "I can't wait to fill their nets with pucks"...

Hopefully he can find his way. Of the players available for <1mil, he'd be the best one. Killed himself on that 2nd contract at $1.825per that he fought to hard for. Yzerman alluded to it in a different part of his interview. Something to the effect of, "that's the contract he wanted", in terms of trying to meet his trade request.

Detroit really needed to develop him moderately, and Grand Rapids has been below the bar at developing youth back to the Blashill days. Most, including Blashill, have been purged now so hopefully we see some progress in GR. The best of their young developed in the SHL.

 

 

Sounds like Zadina asked for a trade and Yzerman will try to make it happen, even buy him out if that's what Zadina wants.  Seems it's Zadina who has decided his time in Detroit is over.

[sak22]

35 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Sounds like Zadina asked for a trade and Yzerman will try to make it happen, even buy him out if that's what Zadina wants.  Seems it's Zadina who has decided his time in Detroit is over.

Its a case where the contract is detrimental to continuing his career in the NHL, not going to be a Red Wing and the only people who will take him for 2 years at 1.8M are armchair GM's, hitting free agency would be the best thing for him.