2023 Calgary Flames NHL Draft

[zima]

Any one have any Idea on Honzek

[jjgallow]

17 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

Elite Prospects top 32 is interesting.

Has wood at 16, Barlow 17, Willander at 23.

 

McKean and Dobber have Reinbacher at 16.

 

Super hard to evaluate 18 year old D.  Hard enough to evaluate them at 20.

 

For that reason I think it's often wise to steer clear of the 6'5 prototypes in the first round  Not always, but often.   Guys who just developed sooner have a major advantage but it doesn't mean they'll continue to develop.

 

Your Cale Makar is not a prototype.    5'11 but loads of talent.   Typical kind of guy who will drop in the draft in favor of the "prototypes".

 

So I do think one way or another we'll have a shot at an elite-skill D.    Just don't know who they'll be.

[The_People1]

40 minutes ago, zima said:

Any one have any Idea on Honzek

 

Honzek plays like Adam Ruzicka.  If it wasn't for inconsistency, Ruzicka is an everyday 2nd line forward.

[travel_dude]

12 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

Super hard to evaluate 18 year old D.  Hard enough to evaluate them at 20.

 

For that reason I think it's often wise to steer clear of the 6'5 prototypes in the first round  Not always, but often.   Guys who just developed sooner have a major advantage but it doesn't mean they'll continue to develop.

 

Your Cale Makar is not a prototype.    5'11 but loads of talent.   Typical kind of guy who will drop in the draft in favor of the "prototypes".

 

So I do think one way or another we'll have a shot at an elite-skill D.    Just don't know who they'll be.

 

Think beyond the 1st round.  

Some guys that could be later steals if they make it to the 2nd or later:

Gulyayev - 5'10" LHS

Beau Akey - 6'0" RHS

Oskar Asplund - 511" LHS (19 years old)

Tristan Bertucci - 6'2" LHS

Hunder Brzustewicz - 6'0" RHS

 

 

[jjgallow]

25 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Think beyond the 1st round.  

Some guys that could be later steals if they make it to the 2nd or later:

Gulyayev - 5'10" LHS

Beau Akey - 6'0" RHS

Oskar Asplund - 511" LHS (19 years old)

Tristan Bertucci - 6'2" LHS

Hunder Brzustewicz - 6'0" RHS

 

 

 

Gulyayev and some of the 19 year olds are really intetesting.

 

Gulyayev is all the wrong things:  5'10, LHS, Russian...  

 

And pure, pure talent.

 

He would be a good gamble.

 

It doesn't mean I'm okay relegating defense to later rounds though.  Quite honestly I'd be okay if we came out of this with 4-5 D lol

[travel_dude]

5 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

Gulyayev and some of the 19 year olds are really intetesting.

 

Gulyayev is all the wrong things:  5'10, LHS, Russian...  

 

And pure, pure talent.

 

He would be a good gamble.

 

It doesn't mean I'm okay relegating defense to later rounds though.  Quite honestly I'd be okay if we came out of this with 4-5 D lol

 

All I am saying is that there are far too many F's that will get drafted before some of these guys go.

Stankoven went pretty late, and yes the size may have played into it.

I find we don't evaluate D that well, or if we do, don't pick them soon enough.

Fox, Ras, Kylington, Valimaki, Poirier and Kuz seem to the the only ones of note.

The latter two are still WIP.

 

I would like to see us get a gem like Ras/Kyl/Fox in later rounds.

Get some extra bullets, don't have to all be 1st round.

[jjgallow]

49 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

All I am saying is that there are far too many F's that will get drafted before some of these guys go.

Stankoven went pretty late, and yes the size may have played into it.

I find we don't evaluate D that well, or if we do, don't pick them soon enough.

Fox, Ras, Kylington, Valimaki, Poirier and Kuz seem to the the only ones of note.

The latter two are still WIP.

 

I would like to see us get a gem like Ras/Kyl/Fox in later rounds.

Get some extra bullets, don't have to all be 1st round.

 

I'm in complete agreement with you, I was literally just going through all the D talent and it's pretty impressive in the later rounds.   A lot of undrafted D from last year turned out too.

 

It just doesn't change the fact that I think we're best going for a D in the first round lol

 

IF it's the right one.

[zima]

What would you expect to get for wolf in a trade for draft picks or a player in the NHL

[travel_dude]

31 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

I'm in complete agreement with you, I was literally just going through all the D talent and it's pretty impressive in the later rounds.   A lot of undrafted D from last year turned out too.

 

It just doesn't change the fact that I think we're best going for a D in the first round lol

 

IF it's the right one.

 

Unless there is some kinda D stud that drops to us, I would prefer to get a F in round one and look at the rounds after that to get some D.  2nd round is lucky for us, most years.  We make some odd choices.  I suspect there will be some different strategy used this year.  It seemed to rely on proving a player was worthy of being called BPA.  I don't think there was much in the way of analytics or high risk/high reward.  

 

Poirier and Kuz were polar opposites but went in the same round.  Both have ??.  Not really high risk.  

[travel_dude]

7 minutes ago, zima said:

What would you expect to get for wolf in a trade for draft picks or a player in the NHL

 

Why do that?  A goalie that is mostly undersized is not going to get you a ton.  A goalie without NHL experience is not proven.  A team would take a risk on him, but put him in the AHL.  We can do that if he doesn't do well right from the start.  Still a high rated prospect in the system.

[jjgallow]

18 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Unless there is some kinda D stud that drops to us, I would prefer to get a F in round one and look at the rounds after that to get some D.  2nd round is lucky for us, most years.  We make some odd choices.  I suspect there will be some different strategy used this year.  It seemed to rely on proving a player was worthy of being called BPA.  I don't think there was much in the way of analytics or high risk/high reward.  

 

Poirier and Kuz were polar opposites but went in the same round.  Both have ??.  Not really high risk.  

 

Well, our first round picks outside of the top 10 have not been great lately.   Not counting Coronato, he's got time.

 

The one we Did have success with, or should have had, was a D. Valimaki.

 

Defensemen tend to offer better value in the first round (not always of course), for all of the same reasons many would like a F in the 1st round.     

 

If I was thinking that this core could be saved then I might be looking at a forward for the simple reason that they develop faster.  However, that strategy imho is what got us into this mess in the first place.

[zima]

Gezz I thought with all his accolade's he would be a very interesting player for all teams

[travel_dude]

4 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

Well, our first round picks outside of the top 10 have not been great lately.   Not counting Coronato, he's got time.

 

The one we Did have success with, or should have had, was a D. Valimaki.

 

Defensemen tend to offer better value in the first round (not always of course), for all of the same reasons many would like a F in the 1st round.     

 

If I was thinking that this core could be saved then I might be looking at a forward for the simple reason that they develop faster.  However, that strategy imho is what got us into this mess in the first place.

 

I have no issue with either Zary or Pelletier.  Both are going to develop into NHL players.  They are somewhat par for where they were taken.  Early returns on others taken in those drafts are deceiving.  

 

I tend to think that we are not well stocked at F.  So, it's not a question of them being ready to help the NHL team in a shorter time.  To me you need to have 4-5 guys ready for NHL in call up situations and as a way to reduce cap and not sign middling guys.  F to D should be 2-1 ratio.  As such, you need to be better at those D picks.  I'm fine with taking one yer and loading up D, but not ignoring F.

[travel_dude]

3 minutes ago, zima said:

Gezz I thought with all his accolade's he would be a very interesting player for all teams

 

 

Seeing as goalies that haven't played yet in the NHL with that type of awards, I have no real value to compare him to.  So rarely traded.  Why would you want to?  If you got a 1st for him, would that be worth it?  Then we have little to no G prospects even close.  

[zima]

I would not go with less than a top teens pick for hiim I guess I have more love for his abilities than every one on here I think he is a Martin Brodeur type player and he is only 2in shorter

[robrob74]

Just now, zima said:

I would not go with less than a top teens pick for hiim I guess I have more love for his abilities than every one on here I think he is a Martin Brodeur type player and he is only 2in shorter

 

I am optimistic about him for sure! I’d rather hold onto him and he be the starter in 2-3 years. If he is a Brodeur type, then we need him once the re-tool gets their wheels pumped up. Right now, we are just in the beginnings of a restart. 

 

My idea would have been, I think one of the other posters mentioned, getting some of the unwanted’s and go with them. I am of that idea too. WE should have done the Hall deal, then we’d trade out Toffoli as the replacement. Sign or trade for a middling C. Huberdeau made Benny look good. 

[jjgallow]

30 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I have no issue with either Zary or Pelletier.  Both are going to develop into NHL players.  They are somewhat par for where they were taken.  Early returns on others taken in those drafts are deceiving.  

 

I tend to think that we are not well stocked at F.  So, it's not a question of them being ready to help the NHL team in a shorter time.  To me you need to have 4-5 guys ready for NHL in call up situations and as a way to reduce cap and not sign middling guys.  F to D should be 2-1 ratio.  As such, you need to be better at those D picks.  I'm fine with taking one yer and loading up D, but not ignoring F.

 

I would agree that we are not stocked well at F.   I just don't think we're stocked well anywhere, not even G.

 

So yeah, in my eyes the shortest path to recovery is a goaltending and D pipeline.  Once you have that, you start picking up offense.   It very much does come down to whether one believes the existing team can be repurposed into a winner.

 

A good compromise would be drafting Emily Ratjakowski.

[travel_dude]

47 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

I would agree that we are not stocked well at F.   I just don't think we're stocked well anywhere, not even G.

 

So yeah, in my eyes the shortest path to recovery is a goaltending and D pipeline.  Once you have that, you start picking up offense.   It very much does come down to whether one believes the existing team can be repurposed into a winner.

 

A good compromise would be drafting Emily Ratjakowski.

 

Well, you have to think about a few things.  We have a team that has a few years where the "core" is in the compete now phase.  So, you have to get as many F in now to have them join in 2-3 years and help the team.  Sure, the long term goals are to have layers of players coming in, but focusing on D and G means you ignore the others.  And you perhaps are no longer going with BPA.    

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, zima said:

I would not go with less than a top teens pick for hiim I guess I have more love for his abilities than every one on here I think he is a Martin Brodeur type player and he is only 2in shorter

 

Well, you probably aren't remembering a lot of debate we had on here about who the top prospects were in CGY.  I don't think his height really makes a big difference, but remember he is very slight still.  Not a big body.  Not wide.  Not built like a brick Satoshi Nakamotohouse.  That plays into holding the crease.  Not getting run over.  Protecting the posts.  

 

Whether or not he can come in and play 20-30 games this season doesn't matter regarding his trade value.  He is a prospect and the trade would take that into consideration.

[jjgallow]

3 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Well, you have to think about a few things.  We have a team that has a few years where the "core" is in the compete now phase.  So, you have to get as many F in now to have them join in 2-3 years and help the team.  Sure, the long term goals are to have layers of players coming in, but focusing on D and G means you ignore the others.  And you perhaps are no longer going with BPA.    

 

We agree to disagree that the core is in the compete now phase, and that's sort of a fundamental divergence point.

 

Humour me though, if you Were rebuilding....  G and D take 2-3 years longer.  Draft all your forwards first and then try and put together a defence, you end up looking like the Oilers.

 

If you just draft all D, is that BPA?   Probably not.  A valid concern.

 

This is why I suggest upgrades.   Upgrade in the draft to a BPA player that is a good fit.   For Reinbacher you probably wanna be 5 spots higher, yeah.

 

Is that easy and clean?  No.  But generally speaking, I think upgrading at the draft pays off in the long run if you have good scouts.  Even if you miss your guy.

[travel_dude]

10 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

We agree to disagree that the core is in the compete now phase, and that's sort of a fundamental divergence point.

 

Humour me though, if you Were rebuilding....  G and D take 2-3 years longer.  Draft all your forwards first and then try and put together a defence, you end up looking like the Oilers.

 

If you just draft all D, is that BPA?   Probably not.  A valid concern.

 

This is why I suggest upgrades.   Upgrade in the draft to a BPA player that is a good fit.   For Reinbacher you probably wanna be 5 spots higher, yeah.

 

Is that easy and clean?  No.  But generally speaking, I think upgrading at the draft pays off in the long run if you have good scouts.  Even if you miss your guy.

 

WHo do you think the core is?

Generally, it's Lindy, Hubey, Kadri (like it or not), Mange/Dube, Ras, Weegar, Kylington, Marky/Vladar/Wolf.

And, apart from last year's results, every one of those player could have another breakout season.

That could last 2-3 years.

 

Every team that has won the cup in the last 5 years has vets starting to get up there and young guys coming in.

At a reduced cost (ELC or cheap 2nd deal).

5 years out, we have to start replacing some of the vets.

Great, we have a new set of D and a new G.

That's about it.

 

[jjgallow]

3 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

WHo do you think the core is?

Generally, it's Lindy, Hubey, Kadri (like it or not), Mange/Dube, Ras, Weegar, Kylington, Marky/Vladar/Wolf.

And, apart from last year's results, every one of those player could have another breakout season.

That could last 2-3 years.

 

Every team that has won the cup in the last 5 years has vets starting to get up there and young guys coming in.

At a reduced cost (ELC or cheap 2nd deal).

5 years out, we have to start replacing some of the vets.

Great, we have a new set of D and a new G.

That's about it.

 

 

we are far apart lol.

 

Best to draft Emily Ratjakowski.

 

When I look at that list and think of players you can build around, I think maybe Rasmus.

[conundrumed]

I'll post my top 60 ranking when I have more time. Another fun little exercise to see just how tortuous that 48oa is going to be. There are some players that I really like that I couldn't even fit in the top 60. Tried to use a little more balance in where I think their # should be around.

For the handedness junkies, the final score was 33-27 for the lefties. Closer than I thought it would be.

We landed at Wood and Dower-Nilsson. Detroit landed at Dvorsky, Musty, Hrabel, Lindstein and Molendyk.lol

Nashville Pellikka, Honzek, Strbak and Lardis. Yikes.

A few teams are going to have a goood draft however they choose.

[conundrumed]

My 60. Apologies to Strathman[98], Fowler[69], McCarthy[86], Dvorak[54], Suniev[80], Cataford[77], Rykov[100], Rehkopf[50], Shaugabay[115], Kiiskinen[68], Hameenaho[58], Terrance[59]....definitely in the conversation.

41 forwards, 16 dmen, 3 goalies.

 

(1)   1. Connor Bedard C/RH

(3)   2. Adam Fantilli C/L

(2)   3. Leo Carlsson C/L

(4)   4. Will Smith C/R

(7)   5. Matvei Michkov W/R

(13) 6. Zach Benson W/L - wow

(8)   7. Ryan Leonard W/R

(5)   8. David Reinbacher D/R

(10) 9. Dalibor Dvorsky C/L

(9)  10. Nate Danielson C/R

(19)11. Oliver Moore C/L

(18)12. Colby Barlow W/L

(6)  13, Dmitri Simashev D/L

(19)14. Brayden Yager C/R

(17)15, Axel Sandin Pellikka D/R

(15)16. Matt Wood W/R

(26)17. Quentin Musty W/L

(40)18. Andrew Cristall W/L - shouldn't have assumed teams over-valuing

(20)19. Edouard Sale W/R

(23)20. Gabe Perrault W/L

(31)21. Mikhail Gulyayev D/L

(22)22. Calum Ritchie C/R

(25)23. Otto Stenberg C/L

(16)24. Samuel Honzek C/L

(11)25. Tom Willander D/R

(34)26. Gavin Brindley C/R

(64)27. Riley Heidt C/L - see Andrew Cristall

(37)28. Ethan Gauthier W/R

(12)29. Daniil But W/R - Hilarious

(57)30. Lukas Dragicevic D/R - See Andrew Cristall

(94)31. Jayden Perron W/R - oh boy. Small player torture. Wicked skill.

(22)32. Oliver Bonk D/R TML so sad thet went way offboard for a Knight

(36)33. Kasper Halttunen W/R

(66)34. William Whitelaw C/R - solid steal

(21)35. Charlie Stramel C/R - that's a stretch. Size wins the day

(30)36. Bradley Nadeau C/R

(78)37. Koehn Ziemmer W/L

(32)38. David Edstrom C/L

(63)39. Gracyn Sawchyn C/R - solid steal

(38)40. Michael Hrabel G/L

(29)41. Theo Lidstein D/L

(24)42. Tanner Molendyk D/L - like him, but that's high

(84)43. Caden Price D/L - u18 shenanigans

(52)44. Oskar Fiskar-Molgaard C/L

(136)45. Cam Allen D/R - See Caden Price

(45)46. Maxim Strbak D/R

(67)47. Nick Lardis W/L

(73)48. Noah Dower-Nilsson C/L

(41)49. Trey Augustine G/L

(51)50. Carson Bjarnason G/L

(48)51. Etienne Morin D/L

(123)52. Luca Cagnoni D/L - See Jayden Perron

(75)53. Hunter Brzustewicz D/R

(49)54. Danny Nelson C/L

(120)55. Alex Ciernic W/L - Oilers with a potential steal

(39)56. Anton Wahlberg C/L

(5657. Beau Akey D/R

(46)58. Kalan Lind W/L

(44)59. Roman Kantserov W/L

(114)60. Luca Pinelli C/L - See Jayden Perron

[jjgallow]

12 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

My 60. Apologies to Strathman, Fowler, McCarthy, Dvorak, Suniev, Cataford, Rykov, Rehkopf, Shaugabay, Kiiskinen, Hameenaho, Terrance....definitely in the conversation.

41 forwards, 16 dmen, 3 goalies.

 

1. Connor Bedard C/RH

2. Adam Fantilli C/L

3. Leo Carlsson C/L

4. Will Smith C/R

5. Matvei Michkov W/R

6. Zach Benson W/L

7. Ryan Leonard W/R

8. David Reinbacher D/R

9. Dalibor Dvorsky C/L

10. Nate Danielson C/R

11. Oliver Moore C/L

12. Colby Barlow W/L

13, Dmitri Simashev D/L

14. Brayden Yager C/R

15, Axel Sandin Pellikka D/R

16. Matt Wood W/R

17. Quentin Musty W/L

18. Andrew Cristall W/L

19. Edouard Sale W/R

20. Gabe Perrault W/L

21. Mikhail Gulyayev D/L

22. Calum Ritchie C/R

23. Otto Stenberg C/L

24. Samuel Honzek C/L

25. Tom Willander D/R

26. Gavin Brindley C/R

27. Riley Heidt C/L

28. Ethan Gauthier W/R

29. Daniil But W/R

30. Lukas Dragicevic D/R

31. Jayden Perron W/R

32. Oliver Bonk D/R

33. Kasper Halttunen W/R

34. William Whitelaw C/R

35. Charlie Stramel C/R

36. Bradley Nadeau C/R

37. Koehn Ziemmer W/L

38. David Edstrom C/L

39. Gracyn Sawchyn C/R

40. Michael Hrabel G/L

41. Theo Lidstein D/L

42. Tanner Molendyk D/L

43. Caden Price D/L

44. Oskar Fiskar-Molgaard C/L

45. Cam Allen D/R

46. Maxim Strbak D/R

47. Nick Lardis W/L

48. Noah Dower-Nilsson C/L

49. Trey Augustine G/L

50. Carson Bjarnason G/L

51. Etienne Morin D/L

52. Luca Cagnoni D/L

53. Hunter Brzustewicz D/R

54. Danny Nelson C/L

55. Alex Ciernic W/L

56. Anton Wahlberg C/L

57. Beau Akey D/R

58. Kalan Lind W/L

59. Roman Kantserov W/L

60. Luca Pinelli C/L

 

I like your list.