2022 Offseason

[robrob74]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

Iggy's deal for 5 years, so you are signing him to age 35.  We are talking about signing JH to 7-8 years, so you are paying for years past his likely contributing to date.  No different to signing JG to 7-8 years; you buy the last years as the low of his career.

 

I'm not suggesting you don't sign for that much, just that we are buying the last few years of elite, years of franchise level, and a couple of less than franchise.  He could be another Joe P. but could fade quicker.  Do what you have to do, but that has to be considered.

some teams find ways out of those deals. Teams needing to get to the floor. Or find a way to trade them when they still have value? 
 

i kind of picture Huberdeau as a Hossa. Looking for a cup and complimenting a team that needs that one big piece. Kind of why I assumed he might only be one year here. Like maybe he'd go to the Rangers or something. 

[robrob74]

41 minutes ago, The_Snowbear said:

Never Been in so much muscle pain in my life lol

 

 

need a day of rest then work the muscles again to get 'em going. Ease the pain!!! Sounds like you had fun though!

[conundrumed]

11 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

ya, I hated that Phaneuf deal. I started seeing warts in his game, and rumour at the time was that he felt his game was good enough as is and didn't need to work on it. Felt a player like that isn't necessarily a winner, but also his "head was too big." Although we still should've gotten a better deal for him. Those damn leafs!

Well then...you wouldn't believe how an angry Getzlaf would completely roll him in in the WHL. Phaneuf>Getzlaf? Goddammit you guys.

[robrob74]

4 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Well then...you wouldn't believe how an angry Getzlaf would completely roll him in in the WHL. Phaneuf>Getzlaf? Goddammit you guys.

 in the Flames barn to boot!

[Thebrewcrew]

18 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Well then...you wouldn't believe how an angry Getzlaf would completely roll him in in the WHL. Phaneuf>Getzlaf? Goddammit you guys.

Saw this a while ago, but I can't find the link so I aplogize...

 

Anyway, at the 03 draft the Flames were really considering Mike Richards at 9th overall. Obviously, went with Dion. Fun to see hear those stories though

[Thebrewcrew]

I think Kadri needs to re-adjust his expectations. The 6-7yr deal isn't there. 

 

I don't see him going the Klingberg route and taking a 1yr deal. If a 31yr old coming off a career year can't get a deal, 32yr old Kadri won't have much more luck. 

 

The hockey fit is still very good for the Flames, which is why it's worth monitoring. 

[The_Tribal Chief]

They always Say when your like Kadri no one can help your dreams

[robrob74]

5 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

I think Kadri needs to re-adjust his expectations. The 6-7yr deal isn't there. 

 

I don't see him going the Klingberg route and taking a 1yr deal. If a 31yr old coming off a career year can't get a deal, 32yr old Kadri won't have much more luck. 

 

The hockey fit is still very good for the Flames, which is why it's worth monitoring. 

 

tough to read, but in reality there's only so much cap space to go around, and I think it really limited players like Gaudreau, Klingberg and now him. 
 

im beginning to think we slightly overpaid Coleman for what he brings. Intellectually I like him as a player but does he bring enough offence to warrant his pay? Is he more than just a role player? He does a lot. Kills penalties, plays against the tough opponents. Might pinch a bit of offence. But that's where I think some of the problems happen with cap. Lucic is a tough cap hit. Paying guys like Beagle (Canucks) what he got, can limit what teams can do and like others say, it's all GMs. 
 

so how many teams can afford to give up assets to sign him? 

[Thebrewcrew]

 

[travel_dude]

44 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

tough to read, but in reality there's only so much cap space to go around, and I think it really limited players like Gaudreau, Klingberg and now him. 
 

im beginning to think we slightly overpaid Coleman for what he brings. Intellectually I like him as a player but does he bring enough offence to warrant his pay? Is he more than just a role player? He does a lot. Kills penalties, plays against the tough opponents. Might pinch a bit of offence. But that's where I think some of the problems happen with cap. Lucic is a tough cap hit. Paying guys like Beagle (Canucks) what he got, can limit what teams can do and like others say, it's all GMs. 
 

so how many teams can afford to give up assets to sign him? 

 

We chose how to use Coleman.  Was really best suited with Mangiapane, but was more the conscience of the line.  His cap is what you pay for a guy consistent in the playoffs and has ability to score 20.  Just under $5M on 6 years.  Playoff leadership only can get so much buy in though.  He was willingto break bones to win, while other just wanted to get through and get a new payday.  He never specifically called out the top 2 guys, but in general I would say he felt a few guys didn't leave it all on the ice.

 

Need more like him, not less.  Kadri seems to be that guy, though he has some baggage.  STL hates him.  Toronto was glad to get rid of him.  Has a habit of going over the line sometimes.  

[travel_dude]

5 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

 

 

That would not surprise me.  They won't do more than a handshake deal until they clear cap.  Makes sense why Dobson hasn't been signed yet.  Him and Romanov.  Lou doesn't liek dealing from weakness.

[Thebrewcrew]

15 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

That would not surprise me.  They won't do more than a handshake deal until they clear cap.  Makes sense why Dobson hasn't been signed yet.  Him and Romanov.  Lou doesn't liek dealing from weakness.

Thomas Drance of the Athletic hinted at Kadri and NYI this past week as well

[jjgallow]

5 hours ago, robrob74 said:

some teams find ways out of those deals. Teams needing to get to the floor. Or find a way to trade them when they still have value? 
 

i kind of picture Huberdeau as a Hossa. Looking for a cup and complimenting a team that needs that one big piece. Kind of why I assumed he might only be one year here. Like maybe he'd go to the Rangers or something. 

 

I feel like the rangers is where older vets unknowingly go out to pasture lol

[The_People1]

7 hours ago, phoenix66 said:

This is a pretty good article for those wondering what new deals for Huberdeau and Weegar could look like .. it's got Huberdeau at 8x11.9, and Weegar around 7.9 .  Pretty rational for those into the % principle .. 

Never knew that %wise , Phaneuf was our most expensive contract ever .

 

https://flamesnation.ca/2022/07/31/biggest-contracts-in-flames-history/

 

 

 

Makes me want to sell both players at the TDL and rebuild in the 2023 draft.

[The_People1]

11 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Blashill refused to give him much offence space. Pretty much made him play 3rd line to improve his 200' game which he did. Not sure if Lalonde will utilize his bomb of a shot better. Let's just say no one misses Blashill.

Space is tight on D's roster:

Bert-Larkin-Raymond

Vrana-Copp-Perron

Rasmussen-Suter-Kubalik

Then there are still blue chip fwd prospects in Veleno and Berggren.

LD is weak with Chiarot, Maata and Oesterle but Edvinsson could potentially bust out similarly to Seider.

Hanifin would be a good fit regardless.

They can't offer much at C though. Veleno or Ras probably. Then they still have a bunch of good D prospects in Wallinder, Johannsen, Sebrango, McIsaac etc.

 

I'm okay trading Hanifin but not sure if Zadina's ceiling is still there.  Hanifin is still a serviceable 2nd pair Dman with a load of experience.  I want us to target a big name C or #1 LD with Hanifin in a package.

[jjgallow]

8 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Makes me want to sell both players at the TDL and rebuild in the 2023 draft.

 

Yup

[robrob74]

9.25 per over 7 years. Probably a lowball offer. The idea is that when he's 36 he'll drop a bit and so his pay will too? 
 

cam he go just anywhere? Can teams like Vegas continue to off contracts for stars?

[robrob74]

29 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

I'm okay trading Hanifin but not sure if Zadina's ceiling is still there.  Hanifin is still a serviceable 2nd pair Dman with a load of experience.  I want us to target a big name C or #1 LD with Hanifin in a package.

I agree, but we know the Flames will offer Huberdeau  the Johnny contract to stay. 

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, robrob74 said:

9.25 per over 7 years. Probably a lowball offer. The idea is that when he's 36 he'll drop a bit and so his pay will too? 
 

cam he go just anywhere? Can teams like Vegas continue to off contracts for stars?

 

Was that the best we could offer Gaudreau after last year?  I get he's one year away from it, but first offers matter.  Gaudreau was offered 10.5 here.  I think that's the ballpark.  

[travel_dude]

Saw this trade proposed:

 

 

To Islanders: Valimaki, Zary, Monahan (25% retained), and 2025 1st

To Flames: Barzal

 

Do you thnk that's close to fair value?  At the least I think it would need to be 50% of Monahan.

Would probably need to take Richard Panic as well, since the difference is only $3M.

 

For sure has to be a protected 1st.

The salary next year for Baezal is problematic.

Is it even worth it to us?

 

[The_People1]

8 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

Saw this trade proposed:

 

 

To Islanders: Valimaki, Zary, Monahan (25% retained), and 2025 1st

To Flames: Barzal

 

Do you thnk that's close to fair value?  At the least I think it would need to be 50% of Monahan.

Would probably need to take Richard Panic as well, since the difference is only $3M.

 

For sure has to be a protected 1st.

The salary next year for Baezal is problematic.

Is it even worth it to us?

 

 

We will win the Cup so it's worth it.

[travel_dude]

2 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

We will win the Cup so it's worth it.

 

But is it value for NY?  They would have trouble with him next summer, but he would be worth quite a bit.

Not Tkachyuk level value per se.

But as a playmaker and a RHS C?RW, he's worth a lot.

 

What I look at is even now it shows we are serious about winning.

We can parlay that belief into signing Hubie and Weeger.

The 2025 pick is the lower value of the two.

If FLA has a top 3 pick (called a lotto pick), we don't get this year's anyway.

 

If we are a serious contender, we should be able to re-sign Barzal anyway.

Anyway, just throwing it out there.

Everything in the deal is either replaced by Barzal or extras.

I haven't bothered to project it out over the course of 23/24, but it seems doable.

Maybe a little tight, but Kylington and Hanifin are the eildcard.

We may choose to only keep one.

 

[robrob74]

58 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

But is it value for NY?  They would have trouble with him next summer, but he would be worth quite a bit.

Not Tkachyuk level value per se.

But as a playmaker and a RHS C?RW, he's worth a lot.

 

What I look at is even now it shows we are serious about winning.

We can parlay that belief into signing Hubie and Weeger.

The 2025 pick is the lower value of the two.

If FLA has a top 3 pick (called a lotto pick), we don't get this year's anyway.

 

If we are a serious contender, we should be able to re-sign Barzal anyway.

Anyway, just throwing it out there.

Everything in the deal is either replaced by Barzal or extras.

I haven't bothered to project it out over the course of 23/24, but it seems doable.

Maybe a little tight, but Kylington and Hanifin are the eildcard.

We may choose to only keep one.

 

if the Flames cam use Weegar on LD, is it worth it to keep both Kylington and Hanifin? We do have Zadorov too. So wow! A lot going on! 
 

It looks like the islanders are deep on D? I don't know them well enough. Was going to say, Hanifin, Valamaki, Zary, Monahan and a 1st for Barzal. Maybe I view Barzal too highly and worth more than Tkachuk? 

[The_People1]

With Huberdeau and Weager we are back at "one more piece" territory and I hope BT doesn't go shy this time.  Pay whatever the price we need to pay to get that #2C... Barzal-level or equivalent.  Keep checking in with Kadri.  If the season begins without a #2C, then keep talking to WPG about Scheifele throughout the season.

 

BT and Sutter's final years so let's go all in.  Conserve nothing.  

[MP5029]

Barzal makes tons of sense, but he’s been trending down…it Could be lack of good players on his wings…he’d be a very nice fit with Manji…but would still need another top 2 Rw..

 

I wouldn’t be willing to give up Kylington or Hanifin for him, maybe Vali+ a 1st but that’s about it, his stats are not so good for a “dynamic” Ctr…if anything he is kinda trending like Bennet…though he did have an amazing rookie season but out side of that he’s been average at best…

 

but yes he’s be a good risk fit to

Ctr Manji and then find someone to play RW on the 2nd line or 1st and have Toffoil on the 2nd with Manji and Barzal…either way that could be a good top 2.

 

there is still a ton of work for BT to do, yes the Ctr position needs some work, but the RW side has a gaping hole that needs to be addressed…fix that and then tweak the Ctr position some…

 

hubs/Lindholm/Toffoil or ???

Manji/Monahan or ???/Tofoli 

Coleman/Backlund/Dube or ???

lucic/Ruzi/Rus

Lewis 

 

in an ideal world one or both of Monahan Backlund are moved with an addition of a guy like Barzal and maybe promote Pelletier and Ruzi 

 

Hubs/Lindholm/???Toffoli

Manji/Barzal/????Toffoli

Pelletier/Ruzi/Coleman

lucic/Rus/Lewis

 

??? maybe DeBrusk…though he’s not as physical type player as you would

like on either of the top lines, but could be a cheap stop gap for a year?