2022 Offseason

[jjgallow]

On 7/23/2022 at 4:46 PM, travel_dude said:

 

We spent the last two weeks trashing Tkachuk and Gaudreau for their play in the playoffs and hw they weren't worth the big offers.  They read twitter and wanted out.

 whups

[jjgallow]

1 hour ago, conundrumed said:

 

I'm going to offer my services in defense of him.lol

I agree with both of you. He's a bit of a thunderstorm all over the map.

I bolded IQ from JTECH because I believe, with dmen, it's always something that can be developed. You develop good habits, recognize trends, recognize players' habits, game speed etc.

He was yarded in and out of the lineup until now. Were there egregious mistakes? God yeah. Did he look totally lost at sea sometimes? God yeah.

I give a ton of credit to Sutter for watching those mistakes and not lashing out with severe punishment. You can't teach anyone by making them fearful of making a mistake. It freezes them. Now they're so afraid of making a mistake that they're afraid of everything.

cross is right imo, he plays faster than he can think it. He's his own worst enemy that way.

I'd like to see him this year in Flames silks. I think he'll only get better with experience and confidence that he should be at this level. But the room is squeezed awfully tight now.

 

 

 

Well we made him.  Or GeoffWard did.  Who we fired.

 

I was always a big defender of GeofWard, simply because I think firing the coach is desperate.    But having seen the difference Sutter made when he came in...  yeah we had a coaching problem.  It's also the last time I defend a Jeff spelled with a G.  That's just anarchy.

 

Kylington's rapidly improving still every year, and he's young.  He's the last of our worries.  And we have Sutter to thank for the improvement.

 

My concern is, how long have we had duds for coaches in the AHL and are we still doing it?   Hope we get a handle on that.

 

Definitely moving the team to Calgary is going to help.

[travel_dude]

1 minute ago, jjgallow said:

 

Well we made him.  Or Jeff Ward did.  Who we fired.

 

I was always a big defender of Jeff Ward, simply because I think firing the coach is desperate.    But having seen the difference Sutter made when he came in...  yeah we had a coaching problem.

 

Kylington's rapidly improving still every year, and he's young.  He's the last of our worries.  And we have Sutter to thank for the improvement.

 

My concern is, how long have we had duds for coaches in the AHL and are we still doing it?   Hope we get a handle on that.

 

Definitely moving the team to Calgary is going to help.

 

Sutter made a lot of differences with players last year.  A long list of players with career years, and that's not just the result of Guadreau and Tkachuk making them better players, is it.  Ward was a coach that only gave you one chance.  Constant moving around pieces.  Tring to justify his hiring.  There was a disconnect between the AHL and NHL.

 

Do you think Love was a dud?  He did well with a mostly journeyman defense and some great prospects.  

[jjgallow]

54 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Sutter made a lot of differences with players last year.  A long list of players with career years, and that's not just the result of Guadreau and Tkachuk making them better players, is it.  Ward was a coach that only gave you one chance.  Constant moving around pieces.  Tring to justify his hiring.  There was a disconnect between the AHL and NHL.

 

Do you think Love was a dud?  He did well with a mostly journeyman defense and some great prospects.  

 

I will soon have an answer for that thanks to them being moved to Calgary lol

 

Sutter is fantastic.  he has had a shelf life in the past, but if you ask me the solution to this is young players.   He would actually be a great rebuild coach, and was in 2003/4.    A lot of the things people are discussing about Kylington are in fact coachable things, not skill things, and yes I think he maybe didn't benefit from that with Ward.  I could be wrong

[travel_dude]

25 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

I will soon have an answer for that thanks to them being moved to Calgary lol

 

Sutter is fantastic.  he has had a shelf life in the past, but if you ask me the solution to this is young players.   He would actually be a great rebuild coach, and was in 2003/4.    A lot of the things people are discussing about Kylington are in fact coachable things, not skill things, and yes I think he maybe didn't benefit from that with Ward.  I could be wrong

 

Well, I would suspect that Huska was on Kylington about his defensive play.  Defense coach and all.  Sutter would make lineup decisions and things like who goes out at certain points and on the PP.  

 

Ward had Kylington for 3 games and Sutter sat him after 3 games played until the last 2 games in May.  I think the kicker for Sutter was the game against EDM.  Kylington took the demotions and came into camp ready to take the spot.

 

[robrob74]

3 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Well, I would suspect that Huska was on Kylington about his defensive play.  Defense coach and all.  Sutter would make lineup decisions and things like who goes out at certain points and on the PP.  

 

Ward had Kylington for 3 games and Sutter sat him after 3 games played until the last 2 games in May.  I think the kicker for Sutter was the game against EDM.  Kylington took the demotions and came into camp ready to take the spot.

 

 

as I recall it was more a conversation going into the off-season and understanding how each other see the game, Sutter giving him homework and Kylington pulled through with it. Now he needs to continue to improve. I hope he does his homework again 

[JTech780]

A few depth guys that I am a little surprised that haven’t signed yet are:

 

Tyler Motte

Zach Aston-Reese

Cody Eakin

Calvin de Haan 

Ryan Murray

 

Not sure we have space for them, maybe Tyler Motte, but they are solid depth guys.

[travel_dude]

6 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

A few depth guys that I am a little surprised that haven’t signed yet are:

 

Tyler Motte

Zach Aston-Reese

Cody Eakin

Calvin de Haan 

Ryan Murray

 

Not sure we have space for them, maybe Tyler Motte, but they are solid depth guys.

 

This season seems to be another where the big money to a few leaves less for the little guys.

Still quite a few guys waiting for arbitration and some regular RFA's unsigned but qualified.

 

Also, Jonathan Dahlen.

Decent numbers on a really bad team.

Should be an expensive player to sign.

[JTech780]

1 minute ago, travel_dude said:

 

This season seems to be another where the big money to a few leaves less for the little guys.

Still quite a few guys waiting for arbitration and some regular RFA's unsigned but qualified.

 

Also, Jonathan Dahlen.

Decent numbers on a really bad team.

Should be an expensive player to sign.

I like Dahlen as a prospect, but he seemed to bounce around a lot which is concerning. 
 

Sam Steel is still out there as well.

[redfire11]

1 hour ago, JTech780 said:

I like Dahlen as a prospect, but he seemed to bounce around a lot which is concerning. 
 

Sam Steel is still out there as well.

Ryan McLeoud (edm) could also be a target (possible offer sheet)

[tmac70]

1 hour ago, JTech780 said:

I like Dahlen as a prospect, but he seemed to bounce around a lot which is concerning. 
 

Sam Steel is still out there as well.

Sam Steel to me is no different than Dube

[tmac70]

27 minutes ago, redfire11 said:

Ryan McLeoud (edm) could also be a target (possible offer sheet)

Pass 

[MP5029]

34 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

Sam Steel to me is no different than Dube

Pass…we have Dube and we like him…patience and Dube much like Manji will deliver…either this year or, And more

probably next year we see Dube really break out…can’t help but feel he’s

tracking very much like Manji…so 1-2 years he breaks out..this year he becomes more consistent with better production but nothing crazy..next year he becomes a force like Manji did last year 

[travel_dude]

13 minutes ago, MP5029 said:

Pass…we have Dube and we like him…patience and Dube much like Manji will deliver…either this year or, And more

probably next year we see Dube really break out…can’t help but feel he’s

tracking very much like Manji…so 1-2 years he breaks out..this year he becomes more consistent with better production but nothing crazy..next year he becomes a force like Manji did last year 

As much as I like Dube, he's an enigma.  Hasn't been able to grab the rings.  Hasn't made a name for himself as a defensive specialist or a transition scoring guy.  His minutes bounce around and he doesn't add much to his totals.  Perhaps that is because he is not selfish and passes off.  He hasn't really shown that he's a C or LW.  He's looked good on RW for some reason.  

 

My issue is that he gets pushed off or knocked over too often.  Mangiapane pops up and gets a 2nd chance, while Dube seems to end the play.  I don't even know if it's him, his line or the routes he takes.  

 

All that in context, I just don't know where he fits in the lineup.  What is his role.  What do we need him to be.  Trading him for a sideways move makes little sense, unless they feel they need a different style of player to work.  Hard to tell with Sutter.  In the playoffs he had one assist averaging between 13 and 15 minutes.

[LouCifer]

👀👀👀

 

Ken Wiebe also saying that Stastny could be waiting on COL.  If Kadri doesn’t return, Stastny may be looking to sign with the Avs. 
 

@flames-fan-in-jets-land, is Ken Wiebe a legitimate source for Jets news and would he have access to such information? 

[travel_dude]

2 minutes ago, LouCifer said:

👀👀👀

 

Ken Wiebe also saying that Stastny could be waiting on COL.  If Kadri doesn’t return, Stastny may be looking to sign with the Avs. 

 

First off, I would like to say that if anyone has a player breakdown comp btween Dube and Mangiapane that helps pain Dube in a better light, that might help me get a better sense of his value.  DOn't have to, it's my problem.

 

Secondly, what does WPG have to offer to get Crouse? 

I think we could offer a player to get him.

Just what we need another LW.

[Thebrewcrew]

Crouse is a player that nets you a 1st at the TDL. Think ARI keeps him until then.

[Thebrewcrew]

I would look at offering Lucic to ANA for Derek Grant.

 

The Ducks have tons of cap space. They can get credit for 5.25 by taking on Lucic while only paying him 1m. It's clear they aren't competing this year and this move actually save ownership 750k as Grant is due 1.75 this season.

 

Maybe the Flames add something small.

 

I think Sutter would really like a Rooney-Grant-Lewis fourth line. 

[travel_dude]

4 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

Crouse is a player that nets you a 1st at the TDL. Think ARI keeps him until then.

 

Maybe, but it depends on what they sign him for.

I believe that an arbitration award walks him to FA.

[JTech780]

Made a list of interesting names that have to go through waivers. Thought there might be an opportunity to add a forward for one of our waiver eligible defensemen.

 

Brett Leason WSH

Liam Foudy CLB

Klim Kostin STL

Jaret Anderson-Dolan LA

Martin Kaut COL

Cody Glass NSH

Vitali Kravtsov NYR

[Thebrewcrew]

I think the Flames need one more forward to play in the top 6.

 

Don't think Toffoli is a great fit in that spot. He had 20 goals, which is nice. But, only 6 were at 5 on 5, in 74 games. He scored 5 with the empty net, 8 on the PP and 1 SHG. They all count, but I don't see a top 6 winger there, especially with the footspeed being an issue. 

[travel_dude]

15 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

I think the Flames need one more forward to play in the top 6.

 

Don't think Toffoli is a great fit in that spot. He had 20 goals, which is nice. But, only 6 were at 5 on 5, in 74 games. He scored 5 with the empty net, 8 on the PP and 1 SHG. They all count, but I don't see a top 6 winger there, especially with the footspeed being an issue. 

 

Toffoli is dependent on the players with him.

He's not bad defensively but I don't think we got him for that purpose.

We played him with all sorts of different players but none were really what I call playmakers.

On the PP, he was parked in the left circle but nobody got him the puck in a good spot.

 

Thinking about what we have to play with him.

Backlund is more of a carry in guy. 

Takes away Toffoli's shot chances.

Lindholm and Hubie are both capable passers.

Coleman is best on defense and transition.

Dube is a forechecker and speedy puck carrier.

Bread is a Cy Young type that doesn't get as many passes away.

 

I have to think we either look for a pas-first C/LW or use a guy like Pelletier.

Rozie "appears" to be a good passer but funnels a lot of shots at the net.

Monahan and Lucic's best days are likely behind them. 

[Thebrewcrew]

 

If the Flames are looking to move a D, I would look at LA. They have a major need for a top 4 LHD.

 

I'd look at Hanfin for Iaffalo and Jordan Spence.

 

LA is loaded with RHD prospects. Spence is still waiver eligible. 42pts in 46 AHL games last year, seen some NHL time

Iafallo is a really solid player. He had very little puck luck, should be in that 17-20 goal range.

 

Gives you a top 6 of

Huberdeau-Lindholm-Mangiapane

All three will score 30

Iaffalo-Backlund-Coleman

[JTech780]

See last year it felt like we played the whole season missing a top 4 defenseman and now we finally have a solid top 4. I am not in a hurry to trade away from that top 4. I am more interested in trading one of our depth defense, Kylington, Valimaki, Mackey.

[flames for life]

6 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

See last year it felt like we played the whole season missing a top 4 defenseman and now we finally have a solid top 4. I am not in a hurry to trade away from that top 4. I am more interested in trading one of our depth defense, Kylington, Valimaki, Mackey.

I would trade Valimaki in a heartbeat.  Just don’t care for his attitude.  The other two have significant value to the Flames, and will continue to grow as players.