2022 Offseason

[travel_dude]

37 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

If Wolf is rocking it in camp, there may be nothing left to prove in the A. That's a great problem to have. You never want to impede progression.

Is 20 games in the NHL better than 60 in the A for a young goalie? Damn straight imo.

The jump is huge, I get it, but I'd never impede progression. "He needs reps" vs he needs to be challenged at the next level. I'll take the latter. I know my Wolf take won't be agreed with, but I'm sticking with it.

Now Vladar is a big, big trade chip for teams jonesing for a goalie that will have dickering(arb) rights after this season.

Wolf is ELC for 2 more years.

 

I'm not even sure we have seen close to the best that Vladar has to offer.  He has to face waivers should we want to play Wolf, if there are no injuries.  As a young goalie with arbitration rights, I'm not sure he gets a huge award next summer.  28 games in the NHL so far.  Having a really good backup in the NHL is a good problem to have.  Having Wolf in the AHL is not the biggest problem.  

[tmac70]

Since the departure of 2/3 of the top line we are still short roster players that will move the needle to at least even where we were at. Huby helps as I think he is better than JG and Weeger is an upgrade on D, however, our roster last year was soft in areas and we still have yet to address them. Could this club be in the contender catagory with a few moves, sure. First Monhan is not the ball and chain on the roster its Lucic, if his contract is moved or both with some spots filled we could move the needle. 

 

When I look at this roster it just doesn't scream offensively scary and the best defensive sound. We need a little more speed and size. You have to balance this out better. This club will be a contender when Backlund is your 3rd line center. So just speculative you can't have Mony and Toffoli on a line. Mony will require 2 speedy wingers. Toffoli can will require a speedy winger and center man. We need a scoring winger more speed and little more offense down the roster.

 

 

 

[JTech780]

What about Valimaki for Kieffer Bellows?

 

I am a Valimaki fan, but I think it might be time for him to get a change of scenery. Bellows is a bit of a reclamation project, but he hasn’t really worked out on the Island and he also could use a change of scenery. We also have a need in our top 9.

[tmac70]

7 minutes ago, MP5029 said:

While I agree with you…do you think Cgy will? I doubt it…

 

the major need right now is RW…playmaker, Pelletier is LW, sure we can move Coleman over but then where do we slot Dube? And, while I’d be perfect with sitting Lucic and Lewis, I can’t say Sutter will nor will Mgt be ok with using him as a spare with a 5+ mil cap hit…something has to give…and also that Top 2 RW hole is super huge, Coleman is a terrific 3rd line player capable of 2nd line fill in, but not a regular 2nd liner.

 

Having said that, if you have any sway with Cgy top brass I’d love to see Pelletier on the roster full time with Ruzi 

 

as for Vladar and wolf I’m on board with you there too, but again it’s the Flames, so unfortunately it’s not likely to happen either…

I have ,mentioned this before and some may be against it but how many points does Kessel get on a line with lindy and Huberdeau. or with Mags and Backlund. RW playmaker mags is a scorer bull dog on the puck JH and Lindy would benefit him as well.  Rumour has it he is linked to the skid marks up north, if he is willing to go there why not here, we can give him more minutes and better oppurtunity IMHO. Kessel and Rodriguis I think, home run would be Kadri in there as well, moving out Lucic and Monhan. I just don't think Rodriues and Kessel cost us that much. I think Kadri will move the needle more but he seems uninterested in signing. IMHO the roster with Kessel and Roderguis balances out skill, speed and defesive assiments. You can effectly role 4 lines now and be an offensive threat in both sceanarios. 

 

JG Lindy Kessel

Mags Kadri Toffoli

Coleman Backs Rodrigues

Dube Ruzica Roney

Lewis 

 

OR 

 

JH Lindy Kessel

Mags Backs Toffoli

Coleman Monhan Rodreguis 

Dube Rozie Roney 

Lewis 

[JTech780]

Well this might set the comparable for Kylington’s contract. 
 

 

[travel_dude]

45 minutes ago, cross16 said:

According to rumors Necas was in Carolina's offer for Tkachuk. I read somewhere it was Necas and another piece (that may have been a bigger name than Necas) in the deal, but the fact he was in the offer would tell me he's pretty highly valued by Carolina. 

 

Long story short, If you want Necas I would be prepared to pay a lot for him. Not sure I see a feasible trade there as Flames don't really have many good assets they can part with right now. 

 

And some of the rumors were debunked.  Tarasenko was never even asked to waive his full NTC for a trade, so how do you make any offer with a player like that.  I suspect we will never really know any of the offers because it benefits nobody having it out there.

 

As for trading for Necas, it only makes sense if they have some reservations about the players are are trading when his value is lower.  He's coming off a season where his p/gp dropped fairly significantly.  If we could get him for a D that we are looking to trade anyway, plus a roster player, then it's a reasonable trade.  Otherwise the cost/benefit rules it out.

[conundrumed]

4 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

I have ,mentioned this before and some may be against it but how many points does Kessel get on a line with lindy and Huberdeau. or with Mags and Backlund. RW playmaker mags is a scorer bull dog on the puck JH and Lindy would benefit him as well.  Rumour has it he is linked to the skid marks up north, if he is willing to go there why not here, we can give him more minutes and better oppurtunity IMHO. Kessel and Rodriguis I think, home run would be Kadri in there as well, moving out Lucic and Monhan. I just don't think Rodriues and Kessel cost us that much. I think Kadri will move the needle more but he seems uninterested in signing. IMHO the roster with Kessel and Roderguis balances out skill, speed and defesive assiments. You can effectly role 4 lines now and be an offensive threat in both sceanarios. 

 

JG Lindy Kessel

Mags Kadri Toffoli

Coleman Backs Rodrigues

Dube Ruzica Roney

Lewis 

 

OR 

 

JH Lindy Kessel

Mags Backs Toffoli

Coleman Monhan Rodreguis 

Dube Rozie Roney 

Lewis 

Not for me. Lindy has a lot of D to play. Huberdeau is " let's go North, quickly" all of the time. That's why I suggest Dube.

[The_People1]

Any news of Kadri?

[JTech780]

1 minute ago, The_People1 said:

Any news of Kadri?

Not yet, makes me think he signed with the Islanders and Lou is keeping hush hush.

[cross16]

18 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

Well this might set the comparable for Kylington’s contract. 
 

 

 

That's pretty fair at that term

 

Still not sure I want to sign that deal but that value feels fair. 

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

According to rumors Necas was in Carolina's offer for Tkachuk. I read somewhere it was Necas and another piece (that may have been a bigger name than Necas) in the deal, but the fact he was in the offer would tell me he's pretty highly valued by Carolina. 

 

Long story short, If you want Necas I would be prepared to pay a lot for him. Not sure I see a feasible trade there as Flames don't really have many good assets they can part with right now. 

 

Necas would be the perfect #2C.  If he's available then we have to go all in... What's it going to cost to extend him?

[conundrumed]

4 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

Any news of Kadri?

Only what you're willing to max out offering him.

Which is what?

What would you do?

[The_People1]

4 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

Not yet, makes me think he signed with the Islanders and Lou is keeping hush hush.

 

Lol we will find out at camp after Kadri shows up in a Islanders jersey (and Barzal in a Flames jersey)... 

[cross16]

6 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

Any news of Kadri?

 

Can't speak to the credability here. He is a writer that appears to cover Leafs and London Knights

 

 

[The_People1]

1 minute ago, conundrumed said:

Only what you're willing to max out offering him.

Which is what?

What would you do?

 

Would he do a 1-year $8-mil with us?  

[JTech780]

3 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

That's pretty fair at that term

 

Still not sure I want to sign that deal but that value feels fair. 

I agree. I am still not sure what Kylington is. I am not sure he has enough hockey IQ or offensive IQ to be a PP QB offensive defenseman and he is too prone to giveaways and isn’t strong enough to be counted on defensively. I think he is a fine option for a 2nd PP, but outside of that he doesn’t contribute on either special teams.

[conundrumed]

1 minute ago, The_People1 said:

 

Would he do a 1-year $8-mil with us?  

*Like*lol

[cross16]

1 minute ago, JTech780 said:

I agree. I am still not sure what Kylington is. I am not sure he has enough hockey IQ or offensive IQ to be a PP QB offensive defenseman and he is too prone to giveaways and isn’t strong enough to be counted on defensively. I think he is a fine option for a 2nd PP, but outside of that he doesn’t contribute on either special teams.

 

For me he is the ultimate test of eyes vs analytics. My eyes tell me he is depth. Plays too fast, defends at an average level and doesn't really offer much while in the o zone. Good transition player though. 

 

But then analytically he keeps grading out really well and actually wasn't bad even when Tanev went down in the playoffs. 

[JTech780]

2 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Only what you're willing to max out offering him.

Which is what?

What would you do?

Part of me wants to bring him in, if we are going for it, but sensibly we should pass and at the very least we should wait and see what happens with Huberdeau’s extension.

 

If we wait though to we miss out on adding a top 6 piece.

 

It is starting to feel like Treliving is shooting his shot, knowing he is in the last year of his deal, and next year will be the next GM’s problem or a problem he will deal with once he gets his new contract.

[JTech780]

3 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

For me he is the ultimate test of eyes vs analytics. My eyes tell me he is depth. Plays too fast, defends at an average level and doesn't really offer much while in the o zone. Good transition player though. 

 

But then analytically he keeps grading out really well and actually wasn't bad even when Tanev went down in the playoffs. 

I also think he is the type of player that will probably always do better when he has a chip on his shoulder and has something to prove, so another 2 year bridge deal is probably best for him.

 

 

[travel_dude]

14 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

For me he is the ultimate test of eyes vs analytics. My eyes tell me he is depth. Plays too fast, defends at an average level and doesn't really offer much while in the o zone. Good transition player though. 

 

But then analytically he keeps grading out really well and actually wasn't bad even when Tanev went down in the playoffs. 

 

The eye test for me started to go south after his first injury.  I don't know if he was still hurting or changed something in his game, but it seemed like he lost some of what made him a good puck mover and good at checking.  It's almost like he started suffering from vertigo and his balance was completely off. 

 

It is possible though that he was never used to a full NHL season and just couldn't keep up the same rate of play.  So the analytics would average out over the season from very good to just good.  If either of those two reasons played into his play, then he could very well come back with the same effort as last season's first half, but keep it going for the season.   

[travel_dude]

BTW, any interest in LW/RW Jonathan Dahlen?

Pretty decent rookie season, first since coming to NA.

Can't imagine he would be expensive.

 

[conundrumed]

7 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

I agree. I am still not sure what Kylington is. I am not sure he has enough hockey IQ or offensive IQ to be a PP QB offensive defenseman and he is too prone to giveaways and isn’t strong enough to be counted on defensively. I think he is a fine option for a 2nd PP, but outside of that he doesn’t contribute on either special teams.

 

4 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

For me he is the ultimate test of eyes vs analytics. My eyes tell me he is depth. Plays too fast, defends at an average level and doesn't really offer much while in the o zone. Good transition player though. 

 

But then analytically he keeps grading out really well and actually wasn't bad even when Tanev went down in the playoffs. 

I'm going to offer my services in defense of him.lol

I agree with both of you. He's a bit of a thunderstorm all over the map.

I bolded IQ from JTECH because I believe, with dmen, it's always something that can be developed. You develop good habits, recognize trends, recognize players' habits, game speed etc.

He was yarded in and out of the lineup until now. Were there egregious mistakes? God yeah. Did he look totally lost at sea sometimes? God yeah.

I give a ton of credit to Sutter for watching those mistakes and not lashing out with severe punishment. You can't teach anyone by making them fearful of making a mistake. It freezes them. Now they're so afraid of making a mistake that they're afraid of everything.

cross is right imo, he plays faster than he can think it. He's his own worst enemy that way.

I'd like to see him this year in Flames silks. I think he'll only get better with experience and confidence that he should be at this level. But the room is squeezed awfully tight now.

 

 

[LouCifer]

55 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

The eye test for me started to go south after his first injury.  I don't know if he was still hurting or changed something in his game, but it seemed like he lost some of what made him a good puck mover and good at checking.  It's almost like he started suffering from vertigo and his balance was completely off. 

I read that Kyller’s shoulder got messed up and he was trying to play through it. I noticed his balance was completely off as well and I wonder if it was because he was limited to how much he couldn’t extend or control his stick. I do want Kyller to remain with us. He brings speed to our backend that we don’t otherwise have. I remember seeing him keep pace with McDavid, forcing McDavid to stay on the perimeter and dish the puck off to a lesser threat. I’ve seen him get caught at the offensive blue line on more than a few occasions and get back into the play by the time they reached our blue line. I also think there’s some untapped offence there. 
 

1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

Would he do a 1-year $8-mil with us?  

I see what you’re doing there, and I like it. Mind you, I don’t think Kadri does. He’s coming off winning a cup, his value is at its highest, and he would be taking on a lot of risk signing a 1 year deal with us. He may get injured, also what if we have a terrible season, etc. Given that both BT and Sutter are in the final years of their contracts, it’s logical that BT will be swinging for the fences this year. In the same vein, however, I don’t think ownership will allow him to invest in a 7-year deal for a player at this point. (Huberdeau maybe being the exception)

I can see Barzal still as an option because he’s an RFA after this season. He’s essentially on a one year term. 

[travel_dude]

52 minutes ago, LouCifer said:

I read that Kyller’s shoulder got messed up and he was trying to play through it. I noticed his balance was completely off as well and I wonder if it was because he was limited to how much he couldn’t extend or control his stick. I do want Kyller to remain with us. He brings speed to our backend that we don’t otherwise have. I remember seeing him keep pace with McDavid, forcing McDavid to stay on the perimeter and dish the puck off to a lesser threat. I’ve seen him get caught at the offensive blue line on more than a few occasions and get back into the play by the time they reached our blue line. I also think there’s some untapped offence there. 
 

I see what you’re doing there, and I like it. Mind you, I don’t think Kadri does. He’s coming off winning a cup, his value is at its highest, and he would be taking on a lot of risk signing a 1 year deal with us. He may get injured, also what if we have a terrible season, etc. Given that both BT and Sutter are in the final years of their contracts, it’s logical that BT will be swinging for the fences this year. In the same vein, however, I don’t think ownership will allow him to invest in a 7-year deal for a player at this point. (Huberdeau maybe being the exception)

I can see Barzal still as an option because he’s an RFA after this season. He’s essentially on a one year term. 

 

The collision where he went cartwheeling into the boards was the one I found to be season changing.  His neck bent backwards.  Looked like it was going to be a long term concussion protocol.  It was what, a week?  He may have started to struggle sooner, but I noticed it more after he returned.  

 

He was one guy you could count to be able to go from the O-zone blueline to catching and angling off a player.  He was less apt to get burned at the blueline and be forced to take a penalty.  He wasn't soft defending.  I do think he needs to slow down the reads in the O-zone.  Not well thought out.  Not so much how he holds the line as much as what he does with the puck.  A muffin at the goalie is a waste if nobody is in front.  No point in take the puck end to end if all you are going to do is skate around the net and then dump it back to the corner.

 

Trading him or Hanifin comes down to ceiling and roster fit.  It may be the wrong time to trade Hanifin without seeing what Kyl shows up at camp, but on the other hand you can't really wait until a signing or award to decide on a player.  At least that is my thinking.  I don't think we really have any idea of the D pairs, so which players offer you the most flexibility.  Can't keep 10D, all of which require waivers.