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Ryan Francis - 5th rounder 2020


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34 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

I noticed that they moved Francis to Center, so he is going through a bit of a transition.

 

I also would have expected him to tear the league up and I am dissapointed but feel it's still early.   It could be the adjustment, he could have a hidden injury, or ...yeah.   he may have plateaued sigh.

 

You know he was phenomenal in the first one or two Flames prospect games, looking like he might be going for making the NHL.  Then took a sharp dropoff and ended up not sticking in the AHL.   It's not unlikely that he suffered some kind of injury, whether it's unreported concussion or whatever, in those two games.

 

I am a little surprised to see him at center.    Seems an unusual fit.    But we'll see how things go.   Very early days.

He's playing 3rd line is what really surprises me.

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  • 3 weeks later...
  • 5 months later...

Going to be surprised if they sign him. I think there is something there they are not liking because I was pretty surprised when they sent him back to junior this year. Even more surprised when he didn't play in junior at a high level. 

 

His D+2 season was stellar but he's flatlined every since. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, cross16 said:

Going to be surprised if they sign him. I think there is something there they are not liking because I was pretty surprised when they sent him back to junior this year. Even more surprised when he didn't play in junior at a high level. 

 

His D+2 season was stellar but he's flatlined every since. 

 

 

 

I think there was some struggles to start the Q season, but supposedly he finished strong.  Not sure that giving up his rights without seeing him play more than 4 AHL makes a lot of sense.  As it stands, the number of AHL players expiring as either RFA or UFA is pretty high.  I suppose another short winger doesn't exactly appeal to the team, but he's an asset.  

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38 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I think there was some struggles to start the Q season, but supposedly he finished strong.  Not sure that giving up his rights without seeing him play more than 4 AHL makes a lot of sense.  As it stands, the number of AHL players expiring as either RFA or UFA is pretty high.  I suppose another short winger doesn't exactly appeal to the team, but he's an asset.  

 

That isn't my personal opinion that they should or not sign him.  I just think the writing is on the wall. Didn't sign him last summer, seemed to not want him in the A and he's still unsigned 1 day before the deadline. 

 

Not adding up for me. Perhaps its the negotiation but to be unsigned at this point is a red flag I think in terms of how the team views him. 

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2 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

That isn't my personal opinion that they should or not sign him.  I just think the writing is on the wall. Didn't sign him last summer, seemed to not want him in the A and he's still unsigned 1 day before the deadline. 

 

Not adding up for me. Perhaps its the negotiation but to be unsigned at this point is a red flag I think in terms of how the team views him. 

 

I think there were some things that made signing him before now a waste.

There was no slide left.

He would count as an active one and burn a year this past year.

They had close to 50 contracts on the books at the time.

Sign him now and he's active next season.

 

I'm not saying they are signing him, just that there were good reason why they should wait.

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3 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

Personally I don't see a whole lot there as a prospect, I wouldn't be upset either way. 

 

Poor JJ would lose it if we failed to sign our "best prospect".

I'm not here to suggest that he will be another Gaudreau or Mangiapane.

Just that you sometimes have to wait a bit to see what you have.

Junior not always a great predictor.

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3 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Poor JJ would lose it if we failed to sign our "best prospect".

I'm not here to suggest that he will be another Gaudreau or Mangiapane.

Just that you sometimes have to wait a bit to see what you have.

Junior not always a great predictor.

 

For me it's the combination of the point totals were just ok and the fact that the physical tools are just so so. For a late round pick he it was worth the gamble, I just don't think he ends up taking that next step.

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2 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:

Flames typically sign their guys quickly. Pretty clear Francis won't be getting a contract. 

 

Zary was a strategic signing date.

I can see them waiting to the point that he doesn't burn a year.

But it seems like they lost interest.

Another 5'9" winger no great loss.

But, I hate giving up before they get much of a chance to prove anything.

If he's the MVP of th Memorial Cup, he will get picked in the draft.

A team like MTL really focuses on the Q as well.

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2 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Zary was a strategic signing date.

I can see them waiting to the point that he doesn't burn a year.

But it seems like they lost interest.

Another 5'9" winger no great loss.

But, I hate giving up before they get much of a chance to prove anything.

If he's the MVP of th Memorial Cup, he will get picked in the draft.

A team like MTL really focuses on the Q as well.

They signed the majority of the class pretty quick.

 

Kerins had to wait a bit.

 

It's only Francis, Chechelev and Boltmann. Chechelev is on an AHL deal. Boltmann in college.

 

The Flames do have a lot of smaller wingers in the organization, so not a huge surprise.

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26 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

 

They signed the majority of the class pretty quick.

 

Kerins had to wait a bit.

 

It's only Francis, Chechelev and Boltmann. Chechelev is on an AHL deal. Boltmann in college.

 

The Flames do have a lot of smaller wingers in the organization, so not a huge surprise.

 

The timing of the signings is sometimes strategic.

I don't think they waited this long and will sign him by tomorrow, but who knows.

There are so many things to consider with older guys singing ELC.

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I'm a little surprised. For a team low on picks this year and low on RS in the system I would have kept him and taken a flyer. 

 

But at the same time I don't think it's a terrible decision. Plenty of valid reasons to be concerned as well or question the upside. 

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Ouch what happened to Francis?  He looked pretty good at camp last season.  He looked weak though and falls down by himself 10 times a game but he was fast, had decent vision and playmaking abilities.  I thought he had good potential.

 

Looking at his stats they weren't great though.  His other teammate drafted a few spots after him did much better... we should've drafted that kid instead.

 

https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/leagues/seasons/teams/0039802022.html

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I'm not very surprised.

Perfect opportunity for a rant.

Francis and Zary are the same age as Pelletier, they aren't a year younger or a year behind.

ONLY when it comes to the NHL's Blockchaining ridiculous age limit cutoff for draft. It is so utterly dumb that I'm at a loss for words.

This is what sent Matthews to the Swiss league for a year. You play the same birth year guys for your entire career and then at the NHL draft, "sorry, you were born between Sept 16th and Dec 31st, you aren't with your peers anymore".

It's ridiculous.

So if you're drafting a late birthday guy in later rounds, back your hopes off.

I hate this about the NHL.

It is the ONLY time you aren't with your birth year buddies.

It's actually discriminatory when it comes right down to it.

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On 6/2/2022 at 5:36 AM, conundrumed said:

I'm not very surprised.

Perfect opportunity for a rant.

Francis and Zary are the same age as Pelletier, they aren't a year younger or a year behind.

ONLY when it comes to the NHL's Blockchaining ridiculous age limit cutoff for draft. It is so utterly dumb that I'm at a loss for words.

This is what sent Matthews to the Swiss league for a year. You play the same birth year guys for your entire career and then at the NHL draft, "sorry, you were born between Sept 16th and Dec 31st, you aren't with your peers anymore".

It's ridiculous.

So if you're drafting a late birthday guy in later rounds, back your hopes off.

I hate this about the NHL.

It is the ONLY time you aren't with your birth year buddies.

It's actually discriminatory when it comes right down to it.

 

What about the 20-year-old limit for AHL?  Same cut off dates?

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17 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

What about the 20-year-old limit for AHL?  Same cut off dates?

I do believe so, but @cross is the authority on this stuff. I don't know how he rhymes it off like nothing, but love that he edumucates us. Seems to know even the obscurest.

I'm too busy trying to memorize songs and lyrics.lol

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20 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

What about the 20-year-old limit for AHL?  Same cut off dates?

 

 

So technically there is no 20 year old limit for the AHL as it's not an AHL policy, you can play in the AHL as long as you are 18 by September 15th. 

This relates to the NHL and CHL's transfer agreement and yes the cut off dates are the same but it only applies to players drafted out of CHL. 

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  • 3 weeks later...

I didn't want to be wrong about Francis.  Sigh.  

 

That said, I don't consider this a failed pick.   The Flames have actually done pretty well with their extreme late round picks, and one of the reasons is they take risks.  I also think they may be using stats to sift through the players at that stage.

 

They have some success.  And up until recently, Francis looked like one of them.  Could have been a million things that plateaued him from personal to injury to whatever.

 

I don't regret comparing him to our first rounders.   At the time it was legit.    And, even now....

 

Just as much as that comparison had to do with Francis's strong play at the time, it had to do with our first rounder's...not so strong play.  Average play, shall we say.

 

I wish we would learn from our late round pick successes, and take some risks in the first round too.  Within reason.    Again it's not really a surprise for a 5th rounder to not churn out.

 

But my statement that he'll turn out better than our recent first rounders, in order for that to be wrong they also need to step it up a bit and possibly the Flames need to draft a little better when they get those mid-first rounder picks.

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So, just to circle back on this....

Was it confirmed that we chose not to sign him or that he chose not to sign?

He signs and gets what?  A signing bonus and a chance to play in the AHL?

He goes back into the draft and maybe gets the same thing with a different team.

But the chance at actually getting to play?

 

Like any late pick, you see what they do and figure out how they can fit after dev.

 

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