Ryan Francis - 5th rounder 2020

[cross16]

Flames have another potential late round find in the draft. Ryan Francis was taken in the 5th round last year and last night had a 6 point night in the QMJHL. 

 

He is up to 6th in QMJHL scoring. Ahead of 1st round picks like Pelletier, Marvik Bourque, Dawson Mercer(they are basically tied in Pts/game) and Hendrik Lappiere. He is also a RS. 

 

On the small side yes but another intriguing player having a heck of a season this year. 

 

 

[sak22]

 

Quote

He is also a RS.

 

 

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On the small side

 

Very promising season so far, Saint John is definitely a team we should keep an eye on with him and Poirier.

[travel_dude]

This is starting to look like a decent draft.  Zary, Kuz (LHS D), Poirier (LHS D) and Francis.

While Francis is short, he seems to be thick.

[jjgallow]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

This is starting to look like a decent draft.  Zary, Kuz (LHS D), Poirier (LHS D) and Francis.

While Francis is short, he seems to be thick.

 

Are RHS players allowed on the Flames?    I'm assuming we'll have to move him to a RHS friendly team?

[travel_dude]

Just now, jjgallow said:

 

Are RHS players allowed on the Flames?    I'm assuming we'll have to move him to a RHS friendly team?

 

Two LHS D-men that won't be on the Flames for at least 3 years?

One a LHS shutdown guy.

The other a LHS offensive guy.

Are there that many RHS guys to go around or do you have a LHS playing RD?

 

In the 2020 draft, there were exactly two RHS taken between Kuz and Poirier.  The vast majority were LHS.

A couple more taken after.

If you want to complain, have an issue with Boltmann, who does happen to be a RHS.

 

[sak22]

20 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

Are RHS players allowed on the Flames?    I'm assuming we'll have to move him to a RHS friendly team?

Did you not watch last night?  The entire 4th line was RHS.

[travel_dude]

Sorry to polute the trgead about a prospect with talk of other LHS players.

Let's give Francis props that he deserves.

And scouting for picking him in the 5th round.

Gems are gems.

Shine it up.

[JTech780]

It will be interesting to see his development at the AHL level, I know the knock on him when he was drafted was his skating was just ok, so if he can improve his skating much like Mangiapane has he could be a great pick in the 5th round.

[jjgallow]

 

6 hours ago, travel_dude said:

Sorry to polute the trgead about a prospect with talk of other LHS players.

Let's give Francis props that he deserves.

And scouting for picking him in the 5th round.

Gems are gems.

Shine it up.

 

I like the pick.   For a 5th rounder it's a good go.    It's hard to get excited about how they drafted last year personally but this is one bright light.

[tmac70]

10 hours ago, JTech780 said:

It will be interesting to see his development at the AHL level, I know the knock on him when he was drafted was his skating was just ok, so if he can improve his skating much like Mangiapane has he could be a great pick in the 5th round.

The knock on Brayden Point was his skating as well. Skatng coach fixed his strided, maybe we could be so lucky for once

[The_People1]

https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/leagues/seasons/teams/0039802021.html

 

I notice Francis is on the same team as another Flames pick Poirier D... And Poirier is over point per game as a Dman.  Is this normal in the Q or is he something special?

 

But great news about Francis.  When it comes to smaller players, you want to see high output.  You want to see them clearly overcome size and still score.  Looks like Francis is doing this.

 

Zavgorodniy was another small player but it looks like he's not going to make it.  As soon as he lost his superstar linemate, he can't put up the points.

[cross16]

8 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

 

Zavgorodniy was another small player but it looks like he's not going to make it.  As soon as he lost his superstar linemate, he can't put up the points.

 

To be fair, he's actually played pretty well down there. He started the season lower down the lineup but has worked his way up and now he's in the top 6 and seeing some PP time.  2 points in 2 games is an extremely small sample size so not worth getting excited about but jsut saying he hasn't looked out of place in his AHL rookie season when i've watched. 

 

I still don't think he's going to make it, but too soon to completely write him off I think. 

 

8 hours ago, The_People1 said:

https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/leagues/seasons/teams/0039802021.html

 

I notice Francis is on the same team as another Flames pick Poirier D... And Poirier is over point per game as a Dman.  Is this normal in the Q or is he something special?

 

He is 5th in QMJHL scoring for dmen this year, albeit to have that many over a PPG isn't very common, but I wouldn't say it's special but it is good company. For context, Thomas Chabot wasn't a PPG until his D+2 season but Samuel Girard was a PPG dmen in his draft year and D+1. Poirier is only slightly behind Girard's pace. 

 

Poirier is a really intriguing prospect and the points are going to need to be there because his defensive game is a huge work in progress. Good flyer though.

 

It felt this way after it was over, and so far the early returns are backing it up, but I think there is many reasons to be very excited about the 2020 draft class for the Flames. It might, stress might, wind up as quite the haul for the organization. 

[travel_dude]

On 4/15/2021 at 8:46 AM, cross16 said:

 

To be fair, he's actually played pretty well down there. He started the season lower down the lineup but has worked his way up and now he's in the top 6 and seeing some PP time.  2 points in 2 games is an extremely small sample size so not worth getting excited about but jsut saying he hasn't looked out of place in his AHL rookie season when i've watched. 

 

I still don't think he's going to make it, but too soon to completely write him off I think. 

 

 

He is 5th in QMJHL scoring for dmen this year, albeit to have that many over a PPG isn't very common, but I wouldn't say it's special but it is good company. For context, Thomas Chabot wasn't a PPG until his D+2 season but Samuel Girard was a PPG dmen in his draft year and D+1. Poirier is only slightly behind Girard's pace. 

 

Poirier is a really intriguing prospect and the points are going to need to be there because his defensive game is a huge work in progress. Good flyer though.

 

It felt this way after it was over, and so far the early returns are backing it up, but I think there is many reasons to be very excited about the 2020 draft class for the Flames. It might, stress might, wind up as quite the haul for the organization. 

 

Zav finally got his first goal of the year.  It was a nice shot, so I'm glad he finally got that one.  I had higher expectations (hopes, really) that he would have a good rookie AHL season, but it's not like he's a plug.  Lots of players were playing above him.

 

Poirier is an interesting player.  I haven't heard much about him improving his defensive work, which was the big knock on him.

 

This year's draft has already yielded 3 ELC's signed; Zary, Kuznetzov, and Solovyov.

I don't know if there any rush to sign Francis, as he isn't 20 until December.

 

 

[cross16]

41 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

This year's draft has already yielded 3 ELC's signed; Zary, Kuznetzov, and Solovyov.

I don't know if there any rush to sign Francis, as he isn't 20 until December.

 

No rush, but I suspect you'll see him signed after his season. I don't suspect they will want him back in junior for his overage year and he's already spent 4 full years in junior. 

[travel_dude]

7 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

No rush, but I suspect you'll see him signed after his season. I don't suspect they will want him back in junior for his overage year and he's already spent 4 full years in junior. 

Assuming the AHL starts on time this year, is he eligible to play?

The way I read the eligibility is that a player with 4 years in the CHL or will be 20 by December 31st is eligible.

In each case, he fits.

[cross16]

40 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

Assuming the AHL starts on time this year, is he eligible to play?

The way I read the eligibility is that a player with 4 years in the CHL or will be 20 by December 31st is eligible.

In each case, he fits.

 

I'm assuming you mean the 21/22 season? Yes he'll be eligible. 

[cross16]

Pretty good stuff from Francis

 

 

[cross16]

Great hands from Francis to start a goal sequence

 

 

[jjgallow]

 

I think we should start talking more about this guy.

 

From the goaltending forum ( of course ) we started discussing Coronato, Pelletier, Zary.    Original conversation was to do with why we never acquired Wallstedt/Cossa,   which led to "we needed a forward"...

 

So here's the thing.

 

And I'll maintain my position on this, Pelletier and Zary don't at this time appear to be that good.   Pelletier we know enough that he's not likely going to be a scorer in the NHL and it just comes down to how good of a role player he is.   Ok great but that's just not a top prospect in my books.   Zary is too new to say but I feel similar situation.

 

Thing is....we don't talk much about Francis.   But he is:

 

Bigger than Pelletier

A RHS

Younger

More G/G   (in same league)

More P/G    (in same league)

More productive in playoffs

On a better trajectory in terms of year/year improvement

 

One could say that most of the above can be misleading.   Ok, fair.  Except for the RHS.   We have a straight path to the NHL for anyone who can come anywhere close to filling that position so on those grounds alone, I think Francis is a more interesting prospect than any forward we have except Coronato.

 

 

[conundrumed]

Dear jesus jj, what?lol

Pelletier and Francis are the same age and same size.

Pelletier has been on every National team since U17.

He didn't have a "breakout" year in the Q. He performed from the second he got there.

He has excelled at every level.

I love that you like Francis a lot. Just do that, don't try to sell us that he's a better prospect than Pelletier.

Zary is also a U18 and U20 National team player in a harder league than the paintywaif Q. Again, all 3 are the same age.

Why are you doing this to yourself?

Be happy we have them all.

Pelletier will without a doubt be an NHLer.

 

[jjgallow]

1 hour ago, conundrumed said:

Dear jesus jj, what?lol

Pelletier and Francis are the same age and same size.

Pelletier has been on every National team since U17.

He didn't have a "breakout" year in the Q. He performed from the second he got there.

He has excelled at every level.

I love that you like Francis a lot. Just do that, don't try to sell us that he's a better prospect than Pelletier.

Zary is also a U18 and U20 National team player in a harder league than the paintywaif Q. Again, all 3 are the same age.

Why are you doing this to yourself?

Be happy we have them all.

Pelletier will without a doubt be an NHLer.

 

You can never say, imho,  "X" player will be an NHLer, when "X" player is 5'9 and 160 lbs.   Or, when that player hasn't improved in two years.

 

Look this is the best I can do lol.    I didn't go on the Pelletier thread and talk about how he hasn't improved in two years, how they didn't succeed at juniors with Pelletier getting loads of minutes, how he's yet another LWer we have zero room for, how he hasn't imho shown improvement since his concussion.

 

I came here to be positive about Francis.

 

I'm trying

 

lol.

 

But yes, Francis atm is better no matter how many tournaments Pelletier was invited to.   I would always go with the player that shows steady improvement over one that has plateaued at that age.   

[travel_dude]

5 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

You can never say, imho,  "X" player will be an NHLer, when "X" player is 5'9 and 160 lbs.   Or, when that player hasn't improved in two years.

 

Look this is the best I can do lol.    I didn't go on the Pelletier thread and talk about how he hasn't improved in two years, how they didn't succeed at juniors with Pelletier getting loads of minutes, how he's yet another LWer we have zero room for, how he hasn't imho shown improvement since his concussion.

 

I came here to be positive about Francis.

 

I'm trying

 

lol.

 

But yes, Francis atm is better no matter how many tournaments Pelletier was invited to.   I would always go with the player that shows steady improvement over one that has plateaued at that age.   

 

You do understand that in the 2019/20 season, Pelletier was injured.

Even after missing 2 games in December, he was 5th in Q scoring.

He was on fire before that injury and was a little slow coming back from it.

Unfortunately, he missed the WJC that year.

 

What I find really funny is you hold tourneys to be the ultimate determining factor in a prospect's value, yet you ignore that for a Flames prospect.

You spent most of July talking about how great player X was in the U18.

 

Please do continue to be positive about Francis.  He's a dark horse that could be a impact player.

He's shorter than Pelletier, weighs about 6 pounds more and is younger.

Doing fine for a D+1 player.

[conundrumed]

9 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

You can never say, imho,  "X" player will be an NHLer, when "X" player is 5'9 and 160 lbs.   Or, when that player hasn't improved in two years.

 

Look this is the best I can do lol.    I didn't go on the Pelletier thread and talk about how he hasn't improved in two years, how they didn't succeed at juniors with Pelletier getting loads of minutes, how he's yet another LWer we have zero room for, how he hasn't imho shown improvement since his concussion.

 

I came here to be positive about Francis.

 

I'm trying

 

lol.

 

But yes, Francis atm is better no matter how many tournaments Pelletier was invited to.   I would always go with the player that shows steady improvement over one that has plateaued at that age.   

You mean, "no matter how many teams he tried out for and made amongst his Canada-wide age group".

Pelletier is the most complete 200' fwd in our system. Thinking he's plateau'd is just stat watching. Stats mean nothing once you're drafted. What matters is working on weaknesses in your game and overall body strength for the next level. Small doesn't matter so much, center of gravity with your skating is more important.

[jjgallow]

30 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

You do understand that in the 2019/20 season, Pelletier was injured.

Even after missing 2 games in December, he was 5th in Q scoring.

He was on fire before that injury and was a little slow coming back from it.

Unfortunately, he missed the WJC that year.

 

What I find really funny is you hold tourneys to be the ultimate determining factor in a prospect's value, yet you ignore that for a Flames prospect.

You spent most of July talking about how great player X was in the U18.

 

Please do continue to be positive about Francis.  He's a dark horse that could be a impact player.

He's shorter than Pelletier, weighs about 6 pounds more and is younger.

Doing fine for a D+1 player.

 

I haven't personally weighed and measured them, nor do I have it scheduled so I will trust you on that lol.    I would always take the player with more muscle all things similar at 5'9.   

 

I do understand this and I've talked about it, the injury you are referring to is a concussion and yes he was slow coming back, to the point that his PPG still hasn't gone above pre-injury levels over a year later.

 

And yes I typically do put more weight on tournaments, but it's like this:

If a player is exceptional, I rank them higher.

If they aren't, I disregard.  It's not enough games.

 

Pelletier placed ~15th or so overall in scoring as an older player in the WJC.  That is not exceptional, especially for a 5'9 player.   Look over the list of players who placed there in previous years and you'll get an idea of the projection, it's not great.    In comparison, another 5'9 player (Gaudreau) scored more goals than anyone else in his tournament, and was showing dramatic year-over-year improvement (not even invited in his first year).   So yes, I got excited when I saw that.    Like I said, I don't hold his tournament play against him or anything, but Pelletier's WJC doesn't make me change my evaluation.

 

And yes I am positive about Francis, I do also agree that he, like Pelletier, is a dark horse.   But he has that RHS going for  him.

[travel_dude]

44 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

Pelletier placed ~15th or so overall in scoring as an older player in the WJC.  That is not exceptional, especially for a 5'9 player.   Look over the list of players who placed there in previous years and you'll get an idea of the projection, it's not great.    In comparison, another 5'9 player (Gaudreau) scored more goals than anyone else in his tournament, and was showing dramatic year-over-year improvement (not even invited in his first year).   So yes, I got excited when I saw that.    Like I said, I don't hold his tournament play against him or anything, but Pelletier's WJC doesn't make me change my evaluation.

 

 

What did he play in the WJC?  A responsible checking forward meant to be the line you use when you don't want to be scored against.

Didn't score like Cozens and Turcotte, so he must be crap?

Gaudreau was never at the WJC to play defensively; he was there for offence.