Emil Heineman

[jjgallow]

And so it begins

 

https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/flames-trading-bennett-panthers-second-rounder-heineman/

 

https://www.eliteprospects.com/player/381844/emil-heineman

Quote

He's the type that can fit anywhere in the lineup and play any role. There's a strong push to his stride, which gives him added acceleration and top speed while skating in a straight line. He's always got his feet moving, always maintains a high battle-level, and never shies away from making personal sacrifices to improve the two-way health of his team.

 

[travel_dude]

47 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

And so it begins

 

https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/flames-trading-bennett-panthers-second-rounder-heineman/

 

https://www.eliteprospects.com/player/381844/emil-heineman

 

Oh dear a RW, what are we going to do with him?

A LHS of course, but most of the NHL is.

On one hand, I hope he comes over soon.

On the other hand, he may be better off developing over there.

Tough call, there is no right way.

[jjgallow]

50 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

Oh dear a RW, what are we going to do with him?

A LHS of course, but most of the NHL is.

On one hand, I hope he comes over soon.

On the other hand, he may be better off developing over there.

Tough call, there is no right way.

 

seems some sites list him as a LW, others as a RW, drafting report says "play any role".   We could possibly try him in net

[pikey7883]

Check out Yannick’s thoughts on Heineman prior to last years draft. He predicted him to go in the 25-40 as a bit of a sleeper pick. Most other scouts didn’t even have him in the second round.

I really like his complete game emphasis on him and how he is a bit of a Swiss Army knife that can play up in the line up with skill or down in the lineup in a shut down role. 
Either way as much as it sucks to lose Benny, this is a pretty good replacement. Hopefully he gets at least one year in the AHL to percolate. 
I would love to see a line of

Peltier-Zary-Heineman in the AHL next year and see if they can tear it up.
🍻

[cross16]

I like what I've seen so far. Type of player the Flames don't have a ton of, that north-south speed player who can retrieve pucks on the forecheck. 

 

Not sure there is a lot of offensive upside to his game from what i've seen. Doesn't shoot the puck very well but at the same time there seems to be some untapped potential here. Was on a tear at the end of his SHL season. 

 

Only one other player has scored at the same clip he did in the Superelite league in their draft year and that player was Anze Kopitar. 

 

 

[travel_dude]

12 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

seems some sites list him as a LW, others as a RW, drafting report says "play any role".   We could possibly try him in net

 

I am curious as to your opinion on him.  You normally have one.

[jjgallow]

2 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

I am curious as to your opinion on him.  You normally have one.

 

I am torn between my opinion on the trade and my support of moves towards a rebuild.

 

I am very happy we're finally taking these steps.  Do I think much of Heineman?   I think we will like him.    But his ceiling is nowhere near what Bennett's once was.    So that's always hard for me to take.     Breaking down the math yeah the trade was fine and it was equal value overall and Heineman is a player we'll like, although I'm not Sure we needed another LHS winger, I like where he's going.

 

The trade itself, was a step in  the right direction.   We're rebuilding.    It was a retool trade.   this means we're rebuilding.

 

What's annoying to me is that:

4 NHL teams gave away their first round picks.  None of them for very much by the way, and we  couldn't manage to be in on that.

 

Put another way:

I believe that in most cases the team that gets the best player in a trade wins.    So, that's usually the team doing the packaging.    Rather than accepting a piecemeal package for Bennett I would have preferred if we packaged him with one or two other players and got in on a first rounder.    Perhaps there is an arguement that 2022 is a better year but a drop from first to 2nd is pretty big, espsecially coming from contender teams.    

 

But...that aside I like this trade 1000x more than what I feared we might do (give up picks to "fix" our situation).     And I like Heineman if I don't think about the rest.

 

You?

[travel_dude]

29 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

I am torn between my opinion on the trade and my support of moves towards a rebuild.

 

I am very happy we're finally taking these steps.  Do I think much of Heineman?   I think we will like him.    But his ceiling is nowhere near what Bennett's once was.    So that's always hard for me to take.     Breaking down the math yeah the trade was fine and it was equal value overall and Heineman is a player we'll like, although I'm not Sure we needed another LHS winger, I like where he's going.

 

The trade itself, was a step in  the right direction.   We're rebuilding.    It was a retool trade.   this means we're rebuilding.

 

What's annoying to me is that:

4 NHL teams gave away their first round picks.  None of them for very much by the way, and we  couldn't manage to be in on that.

 

Put another way:

I believe that in most cases the team that gets the best player in a trade wins.    So, that's usually the team doing the packaging.    Rather than accepting a piecemeal package for Bennett I would have preferred if we packaged him with one or two other players and got in on a first rounder.    Perhaps there is an arguement that 2022 is a better year but a drop from first to 2nd is pretty big, espsecially coming from contender teams.    

 

But...that aside I like this trade 1000x more than what I feared we might do (give up picks to "fix" our situation).     And I like Heineman if I don't think about the rest.

 

You?

 

There's not a lot to hate about the player.  Way too early to define his ceiling, so I won't even try.

His description fills something we don't really have at a young age; a power forward.

Not physical as much as a bull with the puck.

His shot is described at very good.

Whether he is a LW or RW doesn't really matter to me.

If he can play either, that is something we tend not to have.

And if he can only play one wing, then we have some decisions coming.

Lucic is not going to be here when this guy is NHL bound.

Backlund may have moved on as well.

So it comes down to what role he plays here.

 

The trade itself is a good one.  Not a rebuild one at all.  Not even a re-tooling one.

It's a trade of an asset that had a contract that priced itself out of a reasonable one for the player we had.

And given his protection status, we likely lose him as his play improves this season.

If it was a 2nd in 2022 alone, it would have been an okay trade given his current value.

The fact that FLA is in the top of the league this season means a 2021 pick could be as bad as 32 (I think Seattle gets a pick in round 1).

2022 may see FLA drop back in the standings, so it may work out better for us.

 

We will see soon enough the direction the team goes in.  The trade probably puts us in a better footing regardless of that direction. 

 

[zima]

I think Bennett's Ceiling no longer excites not for us any ways as for Heinmen he will never reach north America I'm afraid one good season does not make a career only thing left is the chance of picking up a high 2nd rd pick which seems to be the Flames ability to catch a horse shoe some times or perhaps BT will trade for 2 high 3rd or 4th round picks. I myself have lost any faith in BTs track record. I always get a kick out of how Conroy and BT can turn a  lose into a line we were looking at Heinmen in the second last yr but Florida got him before us nothing like blowing smoke if you guys believe I have a package of bit coin I can sell you just barely used.

[bosn111]

I wouldn’t put any kind of prediction on Heineman at this time. There simply isn’t enough data for a proper prediction. 
 

The run Valimaki had to start the year overseas didn’t translate to the NHL. Whether that is ice size, role, team mates, we don’t know.

 

Will his offence translate? Don’t know, but even if he ends up as a middle 6 winger that provides energy and possession on a reasonable contract then the trade is a win, Teams always need a Chris Clark, Chris Higgins, Josh Jooris, Eric Nystrom types, as long as they don’t think they deserve more money and a bigger role than what they provide.

 

If he can provide the role of a Nystrom type without the same ending, then he can be just fine. If he ends up better, great. Point is that Bennett wasn’t having super success here, so if Heineman can be equivalent at lower cost, then the trade is a win. Especially with the draft upgrade from 6 to 2.

[travel_dude]

5 hours ago, bosn111 said:

The run Valimaki had to start the year overseas didn’t translate to the NHL. Whether that is ice size, role, team mates, we don’t know.

 

Finnish league versus NHL.  But anyway, Val was off his skates for basically a year.

This guy is in the SEL.  Good finish to the season

 

[zima]

We have heard alot about the draft kids and other singing but nothing about this Heineman is he not part of the prospect camp are they not interested in seeing what we got for a top line forward like Bennett?

[cross16]

He is not in camp because his season has started in Sweden already and he’s staying over there. 

[zima]

Well that sucks would have liked to see what BT has done with this crazy trade

[sak22]

27 minutes ago, zima said:

Well that sucks would have liked to see what BT has done with this crazy trade

He did as much as he could, but I think a 19 year old is better off playing regular season games in a professional league vs. 2 exhibition games.

[zima]

True but I would havr rather kept Ben my self just saying

[conundrumed]

It's prolly time to start talking about this (ex) cat again. ELC on the horizon.

Looking fwd to Canada, because we are the Scandinavia of North America.

I think he'll transition quickly. Excellent skater with a motor like Mangia, but bigger and a more complete 200' player.

Likes to score (who doesn't?).

The Bennett trade isn't close to over. I'm really excited that we'll be getting Heineman next year.

He seems very cool with it too.

[cross16]

Article on Heineman from Wes Gilbertson. Says he looks forward to playing in Calgary but article does note he is under contract with Sweden so may not see him soon. 

 

https://calgarysun.com/sports/hockey/nhl/calgary-flames/high-energy-prospect-emil-heineman-aiming-for-hopefully-a-lot-of-seasons-in-calgary

[travel_dude]

35 minutes ago, cross16 said:

Article on Heineman from Wes Gilbertson. Says he looks forward to playing in Calgary but article does note he is under contract with Sweden so may not see him soon. 

 

https://calgarysun.com/sports/hockey/nhl/calgary-flames/high-energy-prospect-emil-heineman-aiming-for-hopefully-a-lot-of-seasons-in-calgary

 

Well for starters, he would need to sign an ELC.  I do believe that SHL has a transfer agreement with the NHL though, right?

[cross16]

32 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Well for starters, he would need to sign an ELC.  I do believe that SHL has a transfer agreement with the NHL though, right?

 

They do. I would assume the deal he signed in Sweden has an NHL out clause but it would also be a bit strange to see him sign an extension over there and then sign his ELC and come over less than a year after. Seems like he plans to do his developing in the SEL which I also don't really see as an issue or problem. 

[travel_dude]

7 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

They do. I would assume the deal he signed in Sweden has an NHL out clause but it would also be a bit strange to see him sign an extension over there and then sign his ELC and come over less than a year after. Seems like he plans to do his developing in the SEL which I also don't really see as an issue or problem. 

 

It's probably the right move, considering how we are still in the intermediate stage here.  Not a lot of prospects quite ready, still using gritty players in the bottom 6.  

[The_People1]

14 hours ago, conundrumed said:

It's prolly time to start talking about this (ex) cat again. ELC on the horizon.

Looking fwd to Canada, because we are the Scandinavia of North America.

I think he'll transition quickly. Excellent skater with a motor like Mangia, but bigger and a more complete 200' player.

Likes to score (who doesn't?).

The Bennett trade isn't close to over. I'm really excited that we'll be getting Heineman next year.

He seems very cool with it too.

 

I have no expectations.  This could go well for us but he could also be the next Ruslan Zainullin.  

 

If BT is replaced before Heineman ever comes to NA, then the next Flames GM may as well never bring him over just to make BT look worse than he is for losing the Bennett trade.

[cross16]

I really think we need to either reframe or just drop the "who wins a trade" argument. For me, no matter what happens the Flames did well in the Bennett deal. They had a player who wanted out, a player that they almost certainly were going to lose for nothing in the offseason (or then you lose a player like Dube), and wound up getting a return that exceeded almost everyone's expectations. 

 

They failed in the development of Bennett but not in the dealing of him IMO. 

[jjgallow]

On 1/11/2022 at 12:58 PM, cross16 said:

I really think we need to either reframe or just drop the "who wins a trade" argument. For me, no matter what happens the Flames did well in the Bennett deal. They had a player who wanted out, a player that they almost certainly were going to lose for nothing in the offseason (or then you lose a player like Dube), and wound up getting a return that exceeded almost everyone's expectations. 

 

They failed in the development of Bennett but not in the dealing of him IMO. 

 

I admit that they got fair market value for Bennett at the time of the trade.

 

However, it was their decision to let his market value drop to zero, and then trade at or near zero.

 

I see it as a decision for many reasons, and we've got other threads for that, but I do think there were smarter ways of addressing the situation both when he was younger and at trade time itself.    And yeah I'm kind of cool with letting this go to an extent as well, eventually it gets old.

 

But, I do have to say, there was some overlapping failure.   We can't even claim to have failed solely at his development.   That is like saying Florida re-developed him in his first 10 games there.

[travel_dude]

14 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

I admit that they got fair market value for Bennett at the time of the trade.

 

However, it was their decision to let his market value drop to zero, and then trade at or near zero.

 

I see it as a decision for many reasons, and we've got other threads for that, but I do think there were smarter ways of addressing the situation both when he was younger and at trade time itself.    And yeah I'm kind of cool with letting this go to an extent as well, eventually it gets old.

 

But, I do have to say, there was some overlapping failure.   We can't even claim to have failed solely at his development.   That is like saying Florida re-developed him in his first 10 games there.

 

The decision by two fired coaches to use him where they did can't really be blamed on BT can it?  

A proven playoff performer not used in an effective position?

Choose to run Backlund as the 2C instead of spending some games on Bennett there?

Anyway, you are right, Bennett played like a baby after he was demoted.

We hear that happen every year with players.

 

BT probably hung onto him long enough to see if Sutter would turn him around, hoping for a miracle or upping his trade value.

The trade served two purposes.

It removed his negativity from the room.

It moved him east where he would hurt us less.

ANA would have been the worse case scenario, and that was even assuming that they had interest in the COVID year TDL (2020).