Ongoing Coach/GM Hiring-Firing Thread

[robrob74]

46 minutes ago, sak22 said:

Plenty of white men can't coach or manage but get extra opportunities to fail.  Would it be an issue having minorities or women coaching if they were capable of doing so?  As someone raising a biracial daughter, I would like to see improvements for how society is, I think its cool she can look to the Flames who hired someone like her on the coaching staff and strive to do that if she wanted to.  

 

and I think it’s this. How many people don’t feel comfortable that they’re accepted in society? Representation is huge! 

[The_People1]

44 minutes ago, sak22 said:

Plenty of white men can't coach or manage but get extra opportunities to fail.  Would it be an issue having minorities or women coaching if they were capable of doing so?  As someone raising a biracial daughter, I would like to see improvements for how society is, I think its cool she can look to the Flames who hired someone like her on the coaching staff and strive to do that if she wanted to.  

 

Merit based though of course. 

 

Nobody complains that 90% of students in nursing school are females so hospitals hire 90% female nurses.  Do we see hospitals virtue signal and hire 50% male nurses?  No.  Just hire the best regardless of skin colour and gender.

 

It's the whole virtue signalling that's what our future is trending towards.

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, Heartbreaker said:

 

This is a great post, Rob, and I sincerely appreciate your perspective on this. You and I have had a few conversations about this stuff in real life, and I've always been thankful to have heard your perspective, and have been inspired by your thoughtfulness, and your nuance on these matters.

With regard to Akim Aliu, I often find myself wondering if the impact on him, and on his life has been exaggerated because we are a society that purports to be so intolerant of racism (as we should be!). I realize it sounds really bad to even voice that, and I certainly don't mean to demean his experience in any way, as I recognize that I could be very wrong - but I believe that the trauma suffered by someone like Sheldon Kennedy could derail a career, or even a life - but with Aliu I wonder if it has more to do with his ability as a hockey player. That is, not to take away from his experience, or the fact that Bill Peters was being a prick, and there's not place for that in hockey or anywhere else, but I don't buy that Aliu didn't make it in the NHL because Bill Peters is a jerkoff.

Did I ever tell you about my brother's ex? She had nothing but really bad things to say about Jarome Iginla - yeah, that Jarome Iginla - because her cousin, Jordin Tootoo, said that he's racist. Apparently, in a scrum on the ice, Jarome called him a pre-2021 Edmonton Elk. I don't think that racism derailed either of those players, just as it didn't, or hasn't derailed Evander Kane, Reggie Leach, Grant Fuhr, Carey Price, George Armstrong, Wayne Simmonds, Fred Brathwaite, or Jonathan Cheechoo. The list goes on, and of course, every one of these players endured undue prejudice at some level.

One of the main criticisms that I have with hockey is that it really is a sport for the well-to-do, and I think that is reflected in its demographics. When I was coaching in North Van, I thought long and hard about how we could make the game more accessible, and I still think about that a lot, but it's a long game. I think that a big part of why youth are drawn to basketball is because you only need a ball and a net, and everyone can play. I could be very wrong about this as well - but I suspect that there is a lot less racism exhibited in sports like basketball and football. I am hopeful that as hockey becomes more accessible to a wider demographic, and as our attitudes change, examples of this kind of thing will become more and more rare.

As I said, though, it really is a long game. Despite what everyone thinks of the man, I think that Gary Bettman has been really good for hockey in this space. This is not an example that can be cited for racism, but did you know that there was a young boy at that game in Phoenix when Alexander Ovechkin scored that absolutely ridiculous goal from his back? That kid was named Auston Matthews, and that was the moment that he realized that he needed to be a hockey player. The league is better for having him. I wonder if there are any teenagers in Nashville that were inspired by PK Subban... or if there will be any kids in LA that will be moved by that up and coming center, Quinton Byfield. Representation, visibility, and accessibility are going to be huge, and I'm really looking forward to where this goes in the future.

But also, to be clear, eff Bill Peters, and eff every racist hockey coach, parent, fan, and player. Ain't nobody got time for that.

Love.

 

Great post.  Agree with a lot here.

 

Iginla was a big time trash talker on the ice by all accounts.  Heard stories from players.  Was a very cocky player on the ice... But off the ice he had the nice-guy image.  And I mean, for sure players used to throw racial slurs and homophobic jabs at each other back in the day.  Whatever to throw your opponent off their game.  It was par for the course.  But 99% of it you don't mean it personally or literally.  And what happens on the ice stays on the ice.

 

I agree with your take on Bettman.  He's done so much to sell the sport worldwide.  A lot of it goes unappreciated.  Like I said in other threads, the whole idea of making the game for smaller/skilled players has helped to attract smaller US born athletes (because the big athletes choose NBA, NFL, MLBA, etc).  There is a huge talent pool of smaller athletes that Bettman has tapped into.  Not to mention trying to sell the game in China which is a lucrative market.  A smaller/skilled NHL gives Asian players hope to make it one day.  

[sak22]

18 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Merit based though of course. 

 

Nobody complains that 90% of students in nursing school are females so hospitals hire 90% female nurses.  Do we see hospitals virtue signal and hire 50% male nurses?  No.  Just hire the best regardless of skin colour and gender.

 

It's the whole virtue signalling that's what our future is trending towards.

When has it ever been about merit, you are harping on the virtue signalling of its not what you know it's what you look like.  Well forever it's been it's not what you know it's who you know, and that hasn't and likely will not.  That applies to the NHL as I'm sure it was a lot easier for Stan Bowman, Chuck Fletcher, Doug Wilson Jr., even Brad Aldrich had an in with his father.  Then you get to the draft, when NJ did a solid for Brodeur by picking his son meaning a more deserving kid never got the chance to get drafted.  But once you let Cammi Granato in its virtue signalling. 

 

If you look at the NFL it is a yearly complaint about how black coaches are treated in the hiring process and its a real issue if you look at it and not listen to the Fox News spin.  Brian Flores (black) goes 24-25 in three years for a team that was tanking on his arrival, he gets canned and replaced with a nerdy white guy who utilized a super athlete well.  Brian Flores got passed up for the Giants HC job over Brian Daboll (white) who was a trainwreck as a offensive coordinator every stop until he figured out how to utilize a freak athlete in Josh Allen, very few Josh Allen's out there.  Josh McDaniels (white) got his second head coaching job even though his offences have been very ranging from mediocre to very bad when he doesn't have Tom Brady it was even going a little stale the last year of Brady, also very few successful coaches have come from Bill Bellichick. Brady goes from McDaniels to Byron Leftwich (black) and looks elite again at 44 years old, Leftwich got passed over.  Eric Bieniemy (black) has led a top 10 offense for 4 years 3 being top 5, and 4 years of conference championships and a Super Bowl win and loss, he comes from Andy Reid who has a better track record of assistants than Bill.  The two guys who had Bieniemy's job before him were both white and got head coaching jobs, despite not having the same success.  The trend in the NFL now it to pick from Kyle Shanahan's young friends, Kyle Shanahan is the son of Mike Shanahan a very successful former head coach.  I don't really see any virtue or merit in their hiring process. 

 

I agree with you that it should be about merit, but its not the world we've lived in.  We need to change the hiring processes because letting people get by based on their families achievements doesn't always work.  There will never be another drama teacher/snowboard instructor as our prime minister unless his kids decide on the exact same career path.  The only bright side to that happening is I probably won't live to see it 

[Thebrewcrew]

29 minutes ago, sak22 said:

When has it ever been about merit, you are harping on the virtue signalling of its not what you know it's what you look like.  Well forever it's been it's not what you know it's who you know, and that hasn't and likely will not.  That applies to the NHL as I'm sure it was a lot easier for Stan Bowman, Chuck Fletcher, Doug Wilson Jr., even Brad Aldrich had an in with his father.  Then you get to the draft, when NJ did a solid for Brodeur by picking his son meaning a more deserving kid never got the chance to get drafted.  But once you let Cammi Granato in its virtue signalling. 

 

If you look at the NFL it is a yearly complaint about how black coaches are treated in the hiring process and its a real issue if you look at it and not listen to the Fox News spin.  Brian Flores (black) goes 24-25 in three years for a team that was tanking on his arrival, he gets canned and replaced with a nerdy white guy who utilized a super athlete well.  Brian Flores got passed up for the Giants HC job over Brian Daboll (white) who was a trainwreck as a offensive coordinator every stop until he figured out how to utilize a freak athlete in Josh Allen, very few Josh Allen's out there.  Josh McDaniels (white) got his second head coaching job even though his offences have been very ranging from mediocre to very bad when he doesn't have Tom Brady it was even going a little stale the last year of Brady, also very few successful coaches have come from Bill Bellichick. Brady goes from McDaniels to Byron Leftwich (black) and looks elite again at 44 years old, Leftwich got passed over.  Eric Bieniemy (black) has led a top 10 offense for 4 years 3 being top 5, and 4 years of conference championships and a Super Bowl win and loss, he comes from Andy Reid who has a better track record of assistants than Bill.  The two guys who had Bieniemy's job before him were both white and got head coaching jobs, despite not having the same success.  The trend in the NFL now it to pick from Kyle Shanahan's young friends, Kyle Shanahan is the son of Mike Shanahan a very successful former head coach.  I don't really see any virtue or merit in their hiring process. 

 

I agree with you that it should be about merit, but its not the world we've lived in.  We need to change the hiring processes because letting people get by based on their families achievements doesn't always work.  There will never be another drama teacher/snowboard instructor as our prime minister unless his kids decide on the exact same career path.  The only bright side to that happening is I probably won't live to see it 

 

It's an absolute joke that Bienemy hasn't got an HC job and guys like Dan Cambell who was coaching TE's in New Orleans get hired. 

 

I think it was reported that Leftwich was offered the Jaguars job, but declined. Probably a good call, that organization is a mess.

 

 

But yeah, the NFL's hiring process is horrible. 

[robrob74]

That’s also not to mention the kappernick saga continues.
 

he should try get into the CFL? 

[The_People1]

Pete Deboer fired.  VGK had high expectations but honestly, their supporting cast has aged out of prime.  They just aren't as good as they used to be.  Plus, injuries to core players.  Dadanov drama.  Eichel drama.  Lehner drama.   Not sure if Deboer was the guy to place all the blame.  But he's gone.

 

 

[sak22]

Maybe another suitor for Trotz, Lehner thrived under him.  Don't think DeBoer will be out of work for long. 

[cross16]

I speculated when Trotz was let go if Vegas would go after him and I think that talk will only get louder now. 

 

Always feel for a coach in this circumstance as I think injuries are the primary reason Vegas didn't make the playoffs. They just had way too many injuries, and key ones, I thikn to make it. 

 

That being said they were a mess defensively all year and could never really get it corrected so that doesn't reflect well on you head coach. 

[conundrumed]

I wonder if Stevie Y cares about any of this? That's all that matters to me, honestly.

I doubt it, but who knows. I'm sure he's very specifically wanting a good coach to grow longterm with a young team.

Just get Namestnikov back as a player.lol

I wish we could have TDL'd him. He was a great add for Dallas.

[The_People1]

1 minute ago, conundrumed said:

I wonder if Stevie Y cares about any of this? That's all that matters to me, honestly.

I doubt it, but who knows. I'm sure he's very specifically wanting a good coach to grow longterm with a young team.

Just get Namestnikov back as a player.lol

I wish we could have TDL'd him. He was a great add for Dallas.

 

Ya he is way better than Ryan Carpenter.  Basically the same price.  But I like Jarnkrok so far... He just hasn't scored but he's done everything else... And RHS C.  Maybe Namestikov plays in Ritchie's spot.

[travel_dude]

1 minute ago, conundrumed said:

I wonder if Stevie Y cares about any of this? That's all that matters to me, honestly.

I doubt it, but who knows. I'm sure he's very specifically wanting a good coach to grow longterm with a young team.

Just get Namestnikov back as a player.lol

I wish we could have TDL'd him. He was a great add for Dallas.

 

I would love to see the Flames target him.

Between him and Jarnkrok, I would take have taken Namey.

Dallas has a few big name to sign or replace.

Robertson, Klingberg, Otter....

Namy should hiot the open market.

Probably can afford him (least of the worries).

But I would love to see him added.

[travel_dude]

Just now, The_People1 said:

 

Ya he is way better than Ryan Carpenter.  Basically the same price.  But I like Jarnkrok so far... He just hasn't scored but he's done everything else... And RHS C.  Maybe Namestikov plays in Ritchie's spot.

 

Yeah, I know.  Tough to complain about the player just because he didn't score a goal.

Replaced everything that Monahan did, except for scoring goals (when he was healthy).

Only took 5 games for Sutter to find a line that worked.

[The_People1]

46 minutes ago, sak22 said:

Maybe another suitor for Trotz, Lehner thrived under him.  Don't think DeBoer will be out of work for long. 

 

Ya I doubt Deboer will be out of work for long.  He's better than 50% of the current coaches out there... VGK went through too much injuries and cap juggling that disrupted their flow and chemistry.  And still Deboer got them within reach of the playoffs.

 

For example DAL should fire Bowness and hire Deboer right away.

[conundrumed]

7 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Ya he is way better than Ryan Carpenter.  Basically the same price.  But I like Jarnkrok so far... He just hasn't scored but he's done everything else... And RHS C.  Maybe Namestikov plays in Ritchie's spot.

Namestnikov can play all 3 F positions. I bet he'd look great on either side of Backlund. Can PK/PP.

He's not a 4th liner like Ritchie.

[conundrumed]

But he'll go back to Detroit. Everyone loves him.

[cross16]

28 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

I wonder if Stevie Y cares about any of this? That's all that matters to me, honestly.

I doubt it, but who knows. I'm sure he's very specifically wanting a good coach to grow longterm with a young team.

Just get Namestnikov back as a player.lol

I wish we could have TDL'd him. He was a great add for Dallas.

 

Sounds like Derek Lalonde, Tampa assistant, is coming up a lot in connection to Detroit?

 

Lightning have a pretty strong staff so i'm wondering if that's the route Stevie Y goes.

[conundrumed]

1 minute ago, cross16 said:

 

Sounds like Derek Lalonde, Tampa assistant, is coming up a lot in connection to Detroit?

 

Lightning have a pretty strong staff so i'm wondering if that's the route Stevie Y goes.

I've used up all of my likes.lol Go figure after a huge win. He is. Yzerman knows who his guys are, without question. I think he'd give Deboer a semi-hard look, but he writes his own scripts.

DeBoer's a really good coach, but Stevie tends to want guys that deserve chances and have earned his trust.

Now he's entering Phase 2 of a solid rebuild, can definitely see it being Lalonde.

And the obligatory, "Go Blockchain yourself Holland". - every Wings fan

[Thebrewcrew]

Barry Trotz fits the profile for Vegas. Splashy, expensive hire. He maximizes the talent everywhere he's been.

 

Vegas has a good roster. I just wonder what the perception of them is around the league right now. They're on coach 3 and they came in to the league in 17/18.

[sak22]

1 hour ago, Thebrewcrew said:

Barry Trotz fits the profile for Vegas. Splashy, expensive hire. He maximizes the talent everywhere he's been.

 

Vegas has a good roster. I just wonder what the perception of them is around the league right now. They're on coach 3 and they came in to the league in 17/18.

More coaches than years out of the playoffs too, neither one had a losing record at the time of being let go.  

[Thebrewcrew]

44 minutes ago, sak22 said:

More coaches than years out of the playoffs too, neither one had a losing record at the time of being let go.  

I think McCrimmon is in Bill Foley's crosshairs as well.

 

I think the hire will be Trotz because McCrimmon needs to have a very good season next year and Trotz is the closest to a sure thing as you'll find. 

[cross16]

Bowness out in Dallas. It's been clarified since this tweet he was not "fired" his contract was up. 

 

I'm pretty surprised by this. I thought that staff did a good job against the Flames and Bowness has done some really good things in Dallas. I'm not sure what more you can expect out of that roster. 

 

Although it sounds like Stars fan are pretty happy so perhaps it's a style change they are after. Not sure it will make their team better though

 

 

[travel_dude]

There was some suggestion that Bowness wanted to retire.  

Go back to the lifestyle of summers off, not getting ready for a new season.

 

[robrob74]

On 5/16/2022 at 9:35 AM, The_People1 said:

Pete Deboer fired.  VGK had high expectations but honestly, their supporting cast has aged out of prime.  They just aren't as good as they used to be.  Plus, injuries to core players.  Dadanov drama.  Eichel drama.  Lehner drama.   Not sure if Deboer was the guy to place all the blame.  But he's gone.

 

 

 

 

Ya, how do you trade a guy and then be forced to keep him? That's gotta rattle the room. And then they traded one of their glue guys in Fleury. I also wonder how trading away a good player in Tuch who does stuff that others aren't always willing to, which also might be a player how solidifies their lineup.

[travel_dude]

1 minute ago, robrob74 said:

 

 

Ya, how do you trade a guy and then be forced to keep him? That's gotta rattle the room. And then they traded one of their glue guys in Fleury. I also wonder how trading away a good player in Tuch who does stuff that others aren't always willing to, which also might be a player how solidifies their lineup.

 

They played games with the players.  We love you, but we like new toys.

You are worth big money to us, but we have to now trade you because we want something new.

Lets see if we can put one over on the NHL and have a ton over the cap.

Oh oh, we need to trade somebody.

Trade cancelled.

Ooops another guy injured.